Everybody is born and dies the same way

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

lastly i would argue we all do NOT die the same way.....i wanna be the old guy that goes while having boom boom with a cutie

when you are dead, would it really matter? 

[Hummin]

5 hours ago, Celsius said:

 

They love money and material things just like everyone.

Does it make them more happy? Thats the question. 

 

My take on it, if you can afford it without being in dept, and at same time worked for it, it can create some happiness, or more happiness. But if you buy things just to buy things, because you can, it becomes boring. 

 

I have been very happy for my first real camera with optics I could take proffesional pictures, and also editing tools that back in the days costed a fortune. Small things creates value to life, but just pure gluttony and egoistic lifestyle, I do not think creates much happiness. 

 

Have enough so you can share and make other people happy, is what matters, and I believe create happiness

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, susanlea said:

The average household is full of junk though.

Yours may be but you only speak for yourself; you know nothing about the contents of anyone else's house, never mind the average one.

[Liverpool Lou]

17 hours ago, susanlea said:

The opposite is true. A self assured person doesn't need material items to feel good about themselves. This is the essence of buddhism.

What has Buddhism got to do with the thread?

[richard_smith237]

54 minutes ago, susanlea said:

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Well, if the 'Op' makes a dumbed-down over simplified and generalised assumption and turns their own comprehension into a statement projected towards everyone else, then what would you expect ???... 

 

You're very thin skinned for someone who makes so many daft comments.

 

Your Op makes no differentiation between animals and those of us with consciousness - while you are correct, we can't take anything with us, that does not mean our possessions are junk... they are a facet of life we experience, enjoy, and some of these items can be passed down to our loved ones.

 

I'm wondering what possessions you would consider junk... 

From cars, motorcycles, coffee machines, TV's etc - all have their uses towards enjoyment of life.

Clothing, of various types also bring comfort and enjoyment, especially those who may enjoy being more stylish than the average bum

There are also items of great sentimental value, we can take them with us, but the though that they remain with loved ones is of value to some (many of us).

 

Thus: the idea presented that 'objects are junk' is fundamentally flawed... 

Such comments are not to far away from such comments as "whats the point of living if we are going to die?"...  Or..

"why bother getting educated, we die and thats it, so we can't take our education with us"...

 

Given the Ops content - I suspect he has bought into this latter concept....

 

 

 

 

Expand  

You will wake up one day. Probably take you 10 years to realise though.

 

And then get rid of all posessiions because I only really need the shirt on my back...   Hmm... 

 

... I don't think so.. I already enjoy life too much... 

 

- I enjoy camping in the UK in 'my tent'...

- I enjoy playing golf with 'my clubs'...

- I enjoy riding my Mountain Bike / or Road Bike (depending on location)...

- I enjoy skiing on my ski's in my ski-boots...

- I enjoy going out for a casual dinner and not looking like a bum...

- I need my car / I enjoy my bike...

- I enjoy and like my house...

- I need my computer and phone...

- I enjoy watching my iPad...

- I like that I have more than one pair of shoes (I don't wear flipflops in the city).

- I enjoy being in my house decorated nicely with ornaments...

- I like listening to well recorded music on a quality sound system...

- I like watching movies on my large TV (either in living room or up-stairs)...

 

None of the above are essential and I can't take them with me - but they compliment quality and enjoyment of my life, and at the end of my days, if I have the opportunity to look back, I won't regret having had belongings that I've enjoyed but can't take with me... 

 

This 'equal net sum' at the start and end of life ideology of yours is flawed, because the net sum of all the things we 'can't take with us' transfers to experiences and enjoying life...   and at the end of my life, if I'm lucky enough to look back and reflect it wont be with any regret because I owned a bicycle... 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

18 hours ago, susanlea said:

When you die you don't get to take stuff with you.

Yo. Boy named Sue..

 

You don't actually take the stuff but you get vouchers. 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

You can buy good health for money, and happiness 

 

Just in case that was typo and mean't... 'You can't buy guy health for money, and happiness'... 

 

I would not agree - You can buy good health.... we can have better insurance, that gives us better access to better medical care, more regular check-ups etc, faster resolutions and action etc...  

 

More money most definitely equals better health care - and that means better health. 

Of course, there are issues that money can't resolve, but in aggregate, better healthcare does equal better health and better health care can be bought.

 

As far as 'money can't buy happiness' - I also think that is a fallacy...    Money buys access to many things which make us happy... travelling, experiences, thrills, plus of course satisfaction and having things we enjoy.

 

One of the best things I spend my money on is my Son's education - that gives me a great deal of satisfaction that I am providing the best I can for him...  that money buys him the best education I can provide for him, its expensive, nevertheless giving him the best opportunities makes me happy... 

 

 

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Just in case that was typo and mean't... 'You can't buy guy health for money, and happiness'... 

 

I would not agree - You can buy good health.... we can have better insurance, that gives us better access to better medical care, more regular check-ups etc, faster resolutions and action etc...  

 

More money most definitely equals better health care - and that means better health. 

Of course, there are issues that money can't resolve, but in aggregate, better healthcare does equal better health and better health care can be bought.

 

As far as 'money can't buy happiness' - I also think that is a fallacy...    Money buys access to many things which make us happy... travelling, experiences, thrills, plus of course satisfaction and having things we enjoy.

 

One of the best things I spend my money on is my Son's education - that gives me a great deal of satisfaction that I am providing the best I can for him...  that money buys him the best education I can provide for him, its expensive, nevertheless giving him the best opportunities makes me happy... 

 

 

For sure no typo, money can buy health, and happiness

 

Just to prove my point, before I left Thailand, coming down to BKK living river side in a 5 star hotel, with decent food good rooms, no noise, great outdoor area with fresh breeze both rooftop and swimming pool ase well good equipped gym. Didnt need to go outside hotel area for one sec, was a relief and great few days before leaving Thailand after weeks up in Isaan. Before that we had two weeks at a 5 star resort at a great island with all fasilities including a well equipt gym. Didnt leave the resort except for dining in the evening and two river expeditions. 

 

Worst naightmare travelling in Thailand is to get stuck in noisy resorts be it neighbours, night clubs, construction, and can not afford to upgrade or move, stuck for a week on the same place. A few times I have changed hotels, complained and got back my money after complaining to the agancy. It helps being a rated member. 

 

Not to mention all benefits that comes with a decent credit card and have a good credit score. 

[ignore it]

Seems 99% of what I read from some posters here is junk.

[BobBKK]

Apologies repeat post

 

[BobBKK]

Apologies repeat post
 

[BobBKK]

Some people are born into wealthy Western families, while others are born in African regions with extreme poverty and no access to basic necessities like rice. Some are born with natural talents, while others struggle academically. It's also the same with dying - some people pass away peacefully in their beds at the age of 90, while others suffer from diseases like cancer and die much younger. It's hardly fair to say that everyone experiences life and death in the same way, is it?

 

If you don't believe in karma, then life might seem pretty pointless. Have a nice day!"

 

[Hummin]

9 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

Some people are born into wealthy Western families, while others are born in African regions with extreme poverty and no access to basic necessities like rice. Some are born with natural talents, while others struggle academically. It's also the same with dying - some people pass away peacefully in their beds at the age of 90, while others suffer from diseases like cancer and die much younger. It's hardly fair to say that everyone experiences life and death in the same way, is it?

 

If you don't believe in karma, then life might seem pretty pointless. Have a nice day!"

 

Why should we believe in Karma? I doesnt mean anything except for those who suffer and never have done anything wrong in their life, should they question their past lifes for their suffering?

[BobBKK]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Why should we believe in Karma? I doesnt mean anything except for those who suffer and never have done anything wrong in their life, should they question their past lifes for their suffering?

 I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but it's a paradigm that does explain the seeming unfairness. Otherwise, what's the meaning of life?

[BobBKK]

18 hours ago, susanlea said:

The average household is full of junk though.

 
Hey, what's a Chinese boat got to do with it...?

[Hummin]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but it's a paradigm that does explain the seeming unfairness. Otherwise, what's the meaning of life?

There is no meaning to life, except to stimulate your brain to think it is a meaning and purpose behind everything. Our individual lives have absolutely no meaning at all, and can be sacrificed at any moment without changing the world. Everything will continue as it always has done. 

 

Everything has a lifespan, as the earth, the solar system, our galaxy, and probably the universe we know. 

 

our individual lives have no value, what so ever, therefore enjoy every day as much you can, and fill your life with joy and care for your close ones. Caring for someone is the closest I can come to any meaning with this life.

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

 I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, but it's a paradigm that does explain the seeming unfairness. Otherwise, what's the meaning of life?

 

Karma doesn't explain anything - its a cognitive fallacy, something we have created to explain something we can't. 

 

The fairness or unfairness of life is simply inexplicable, trying to explain such is a human construct - its the same with luck.

 

The same goes for 'the meaning of life'... there is no meaning, just as there is no meaning for flowers, insects and animals - life is just life, some of it more intelligent than other forms...   The idea that there is any meaning to it is once again, just a human construct. 

 

 

This of course is the perspective of an atheist and the discussion becomes theological and one of faith...  as far as I am concerned the idea of faith in any form of after-life is flawed - we're born, we live, we die - no meaning to it whatsoever... 

But, as we have consciousness, that does not mean there is no need to try to enjoy life and what we have in life... for many of us, that means enjoying the things we have and do as we pass through life.. 

 

 

 

[BobBKK]

28 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Karma doesn't explain anything - its a cognitive fallacy, something we have created to explain something we can't. 

 

The fairness or unfairness of life is simply inexplicable, trying to explain such is a human construct - its the same with luck.

 

The same goes for 'the meaning of life'... there is no meaning, just as there is no meaning for flowers, insects and animals - life is just life, some of it more intelligent than other forms...   The idea that there is any meaning to it is once again, just a human construct. 

 

 

This of course is the perspective of an atheist and the discussion becomes theological and one of faith...  as far as I am concerned the idea of faith in any form of after-life is flawed - we're born, we live, we die - no meaning to it whatsoever... 

But, as we have consciousness, that does not mean there is no need to try to enjoy life and what we have in life... for many of us, that means enjoying the things we have and do as we pass through life.. 

 

 

 

 Well, I respect that is one perspective, but it does dish all of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. I'm not saying that's incorrect, but it's pretty nihilistic.

If you say life has no meaning, why try to love? Why have kids? What's the point?  in fact, if you were correct, having kids would,be super selfish.

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Well, I respect that is one perspective, but it does dish all of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. I'm not saying that's incorrect, but it's pretty nihilistic.

If you say life has no meaning, why try to love? Why have kids? What's the point?  in fact, if you were correct, having kids would,be super selfish.

Having kids is selfish, why give life to something that havent asked for it? For what reasons? To care for someone? To have someone to care for you and secure your life when getting older? 

 

Philosophy and religions gives answers to people to comfort them/us, to keep the spirit up for making the best out of it for everyones best, or as it useally turns out, for the best of those who manage to exploit others. 

 

 

[BobBKK]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Having kids is selfish, why give life to something that havent asked for it? For what reasons? To care for someone? To have someone to care for you and secure your life when getting older? 

 

Philosophy and religions gives answers to people to comfort them/us, to keep the spirit up for making the best out of it for everyones best, or as it useally turns out, for the best of those who manage to exploit others. 

 

 

 I agree it probably is. I understand the transderivational argument being qualified in the field, but I'm not convinced that's all there is to it.

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 I agree it probably is. I understand the transderivational argument being qualified in the field, but I'm not convinced that's all there is to it.

A normal thinking intelligent human being will continue to question why, and always find answers that fits for time being. Hard times often creates more religious beliefs than good times, as we see in the west where most separetes themselves from anchient believs while economic growth gives new oppertunities for more egoism and me, and mine, while difficult times brings people back to more faith in a higher power. 

[nobodysfriend]

20 hours ago, susanlea said:

Born naked with nothing. When you die you don't get to take stuff with you. So why do people accumulate so much junk? 99% of everything you own is junk.

 

Why do people always want more than what they need ?

Owning too much steals your time and makes you suffer. ..

Just enough ( to be happy in life ) is much better .

Philosophical thing ...

[Ralf001]

2 hours ago, Hummin said:

when you are dead, would it really matter? 

 

When ya get to the pearly gates, St Paul does not high five those that chop munters... Allegedly.

[richard_smith237]

29 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 Well, I respect that is one perspective, but it does dish all of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc. I'm not saying that's incorrect, but it's pretty nihilistic.

If you say life has no meaning, why try to love? Why have kids? What's the point?  in fact, if you were correct, having kids would,be super selfish.

 

I can accept that and recognises that others find and seek comfort in various faiths...  however regarding your point on nihilism - Ricky Gervais makes a sound point that there are about 3000 religions in the world, those who don't believe in a god are just rejecting 1 more than those who only accept 'their' god...  However, that doesn't deal with the overlap of the possibility of a 'supreme being' and that all religions and faiths have their own interpretation of such a being.

 

Then there is the argument presented by Stephen Fry...   the 'how dare you !' argument - if there is a supreme being pulling the strings, how dare such suffering be allowed... of course, that can be answered with more whatiffery.

 

..And thus, moving onto your last point: if I say "life has no meaning"...  I'd ask what meaning could it have ?..  I think thats the original question asked, which is IMO, just a human concept - everything has to have a start, an end, a why and why not - our minds need explain or understand,  we find comfort in 'ideas', theories, explanations... faith.... which of course leads questions regarding the meaning of life... which IMO are moot - in simple terms, we are, because we are.

 

... Why try to love ?... because it feels nice...   and thats linked to why have kids ?...    Its simple nature.

The single most common facet of all life on earth is the underlying desire to reproduce, without that fundamental building block in every living thing, life ceases to exist. 

 

With regards to selfishness, and the idea that having kids is being selfish, I don't think so..

... But then, from a 'nature' and evolution point of view - selfishness is an evolutionary necessity, so perhaps.

 

 

 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

 

When ya get to the pearly gates, St Paul does not high five those that chop munters... Allegedly.

It would be interesting for you if there was a pearly gate 

 

 

[Ralf001]

8 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It would be interesting for you if there was a pearly gate 

 

 

 

No chance I'll riding the elevator up.

[susanlea]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Yours may be but you only speak for yourself; you know nothing about the contents of anyone else's house, never mind the average one.

You are perfect.

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It would be interesting for you if there was a pearly gate 

 

This reminds of a chat I had with a 'good old boy' when our flight had landed in Bangkok...

I'm guessing he was about 75-80'ish...   I helped him get his luggage down from the overhead... and we started a chat... 

 

He mentioned that he was 'visiting' Thailand and that he was in the 'Waiting room'...   (as in waiting to die)... 

I asked him... "Which direction... up or down?"...  he gave me a rye smile...   I felt like high-fiving him !!! 

 

Thus on the "you can't take it with you" point - experiences are perhaps more valuable than belongings as this guy was looking to find out...   Still - there are blurred lines between possessions and experiences. 

[sidjameson]

10 hours ago, simon43 said:

Off-topic, but actually I never verbally talk with other hams because I find them too boring!! I use a digital system a bit like text messaging to contact and exchange small talk, but most of my enjoyment of the hobby is the technical challenge of designing/building antennas to achieve the contact.  It's a weird hobby...

Somewhere in that is a fantastic metaphor for life

[Hummin]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

This reminds of a chat I had with a 'good old boy' when our flight had landed in Bangkok...

I'm guessing he was about 75-80'ish...   I helped him get his luggage down from the overhead... and we started a chat... 

 

He mentioned that he was 'visiting' Thailand and that he was in the 'Waiting room'...   (as in waiting to die)... 

I asked him... "Which direction... up or down?"...  he gave me a rye smile...   I felt like high-fiving him !!! 

 

Thus on the "you can't take it with you" point - experiences are perhaps more valuable than belongings as this guy was looking to find out...   Still - there are blurred lines between possessions and experiences. 

What matters, do you feel good about your true self, thats the key, 

 

Right now I can die any day, I do not miss a thing, but life is still sweet, so why not continue a bit more and see what happens. For my wife I want to continue, but for me, it doesnt really matter