Thai Tax on UK pensions

[topt]

1 hour ago, Jumbo1968 said:

£12670

Probably just a typo but for accuracy £12,570

[BobBKK]

15 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I think your calculations are a little bit out,

If you reached state pension age after 6 April 2016, the 'pay back' period is 17 years at today's state pension rates or 15 years with the state pension increasing by 2.5% each year.

Take your health into consideration - if you're fit and healthy, you could end up with much more money as you get older

 
No I think yours are. Last year's rise was 10.1%, and you add the 5.8% for the deferral. You are missing a MAJOR point. The pension is frozen when you take it, and these years are triple lock - nothing to do with 2.5%.

If next years rise is 6/7% as projected payback 6.6 years.

Edited August 6 by BobBKK

[BobBKK]

16 hours ago, topt said:

I think you may be out of luck if you are living in Thailand and you have declared that.

https://www.gov.uk/deferring-state-pension/if-you-move-abroad

 

 

 You get the annual increase until you decide to take it. Last year, it was 10.1%. I'd like to lock in a similar figure, but I don't believe the triple lock will last forever.

"Your extra payment will be based on the State Pension you’re owed at whichever is later of" In my case, I am 66 this year, 2024—this is the latter of the other two dates mentioned.

Edited August 6 by BobBKK

[chiang mai]

Just now, BobBKK said:

 You get the annual increase until you decide to take it. Last year, it was 10.1%. I'd like to lock in a similar figure, but I don't believe the triple lock will last forever.

I agree with this. The annual increase remains in effect, until such time as you decide to take the pension, after which, the issue of frozen or unfrozen arises, but not before.

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I agree with this. The annual increase remains in effect, until such time as you decide to take the pension, after which, the issue of frozen or unfrozen arises, but not before.

 
I lost approximately 500,000 and gained 75,000pa in my lifetime. So, in approximately 6.6 years I break even. I receive an extra 6,000 a month (75,000pa) until I go up in smoke.  

Anyway, that's what I'm going to do, and as always, DYOR. The rise might be less than anticipated, so it might take a little longer, but I think waiting one year makes sense for me. Also, we will be clearer on the tax situation.

[Mike Teavee]

52 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I agree with this. The annual increase remains in effect, until such time as you decide to take the pension, after which, the issue of frozen or unfrozen arises, but not before.

Is that still true if HMRC & DWP both know that you're non-UK Resident (in my case HMRC know from my annual Self Assessment Filing & DWP know as I was paying Class 2 AVC/NICs on the basis I was working overseas).  

Edited August 6 by Mike Teavee

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Is that still true if HMRC & DWP both know that you're non-UK Resident (in my case HMRC know from my annual Self Assessment Filing & DWP know as I was paying Class 2 AVC/NICs on the basis I was working overseas).  

I'm uncertain but believe it should remain true because the pension disbursement has not yet started.

[Mike Teavee]

Just now, chiang mai said:

I'm uncertain but believe it should remain true because the pension disbursement has not yet started.

Logically UK Gov says your pension will be based on the date you reach State Pension age or the date you move abroad if this is later, which could be taken as if they know you were living overseas before hitting SP age then it would be frozen as at SP age.

 

Practically I'd expect them to not even check & just start paying you whatever the differed pension was & freeze it at that.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I don't agree. If DWP know that you are living in Thailand full time, then your pension is frozen at the rate it was when you first become eligible to receive it (Currently 66th birthday) . You do not get the April increases if you defer your pension in this case. If you haven't told DWP about living here, you will get the April increases until the date you inform DWP that you are living here full time. Up to you if you tell them or not. I have 2 friends who deferred their pensions last year to get the April increase and they both ended up NOT getting it as DWP knew they both lived here.

That sounds right, the question is whether filing a tax return as not UK resident automatically informs DWP. My experience is the two entities are separate. I've filed returns as not resident and also received my pension as a resident, for three years during COVID-19.

[Mutt Daeng]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

That sounds right, the question is whether filing a tax return as not UK resident automatically informs DWP. My experience is the two entities are separate. I've filed returns as not resident and also received my pension as a resident, for three years during COVID-19.

I agree that the UK Govt is not properly "joined up" and it is unlikely that the DWP is informed by HMRC. They can't even get our tax codes right because they don't exchange info correctly.

[Jumbo1968]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That sounds right, the question is whether filing a tax return as not UK resident automatically informs DWP. My experience is the two entities are separate. I've filed returns as not resident and also received my pension as a resident, for three years during COVID-19.

You can be non resident for tax but you would I believe have to inform the DWP you no longer lived in the U.K.

[Mutt Daeng]

Just now, Jumbo1968 said:

You can be non resident for tax but you would I believe have to inform the DWP you no longer lived in the U.K.

I agree with you there.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

You can be non resident for tax but you would I believe have to inform the DWP you no longer lived in the U.K.

That is the point, I am non resident for tax but there is almost nothing that forces me to tell DWP, in fact, the incentive is not to tell them.

[Mutt Daeng]

7 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That is the point, I am non resident for tax but there is almost nothing that forces me to tell DWP, in fact, the incentive is not to tell them.

Noting forcing you but it says on Gov.uk website "You need to tell the relevant government offices that deal with your benefits, pension and tax that you’re moving or retiring abroad."

https://www.gov.uk/moving-or-retiring-abroad      Up to each individual if they comply or not.

[chiang mai]

7 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

Noting forcing you but it says on Gov.uk website "You need to tell the relevant government offices that deal with your benefits, pension and tax that you’re moving or retiring abroad."

https://www.gov.uk/moving-or-retiring-abroad      Up to each individual if they comply or not.

Agreed again, and I did tell them. I raised this solely in the context of future pension increases during deferment.

[Chivas]

23 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 I understand your view but believe you are wrong - here's why:

The pension is frozen - next year should be another good rise - probably 6 to 7%
. 

 What basis are you getting that 6 to 7% from ??

Not disagreeing per se but other estimates I've seen is around back to around 3%  ??

 

(Edited in....average wage growth via triple lock ? )

Edited August 6 by Chivas

[BobBKK]

21 hours ago, Chivas said:

 What basis are you getting that 6 to 7% from ??

Not disagreeing per se but other estimates I've seen is around back to around 3%  ??

 

(Edited in....average wage growth via triple lock ? )

 
I think Ukraine will get worse, Gaza worse and maybe a war with Iran. Taiwan and NK are still lin the mix. Labour Govt will be useless economically but will have to maintain triple lock for now at least. I think 6%, likely, hopefully, 7%, but then add on 5.8% for deferral. 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/how-much-could-the-state-pension-pay-in-2025-aY51o7M9wIBS
 

Seven Cameron, the pensions director at Aegon, believes pensioners are in line for a 5.7 per cent rate hike next year.
 

He explained: "For the April 2024 increase, earnings growth in 2023 produced an inflation-busting 8.5 per cent increase.
 

"In April 2023, a spike in inflation the previous year led to a record-breaking 10.1 per cent boost to the state pension.

[BobBKK]

On 8/6/2024 at 10:42 AM, Mike Teavee said:

Logically UK Gov says your pension will be based on the date you reach State Pension age or the date you move abroad if this is later, which could be taken as if they know you were living overseas before hitting SP age then it would be frozen as at SP age.

 

Practically I'd expect them to not even check & just start paying you whatever the differed pension was & freeze it at that.

 Yes but if you are 66 after you move that's the date (if you claim it).

[Chivas]

15 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 
I think Ukraine will get worse, Gaza worse and maybe a war with Iran. Taiwan and NK are still lin the mix. Labour Govt will be useless economically but will have to maintain triple lock for now at least. I think 6%, likely, hopefully, 7%, but then add on 5.8% for deferral. 

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/how-much-could-the-state-pension-pay-in-2025-aY51o7M9wIBS
 

Seven Cameron, the pensions director at Aegon, believes pensioners are in line for a 5.7 per cent rate hike next year.
 

He explained: "For the April 2024 increase, earnings growth in 2023 produced an inflation-busting 8.5 per cent increase.
 

"In April 2023, a spike in inflation the previous year led to a record-breaking 10.1 per cent boost to the state pension.

 

Fair enough.  I was a bit short of 35 years but after bit of communications with DWP have been able to add some monies on to certain years that were close to full contributions but not quite

 

Am up now to 31/35 years and the current tax year will make it 32 (will need to pay voluntary contributions October thro March as wont be working as in Thailand)

 

I'm happy at 32/35 considering how many years I've been in Thailand over last 4 decades

 

Couple of 5/6% increases before claiming will go down nicely. Others will disagree but I always considered our state pension as "bonus" money and to suddenly be getting around £11,000 per annum give or take (bear in mind what I said above) is great for me

[BobBKK]

3 minutes ago, Chivas said:

 

Fair enough.  I was a bit short of 35 years but after bit of communications with DWP have been able to add some monies on to certain years that were close to full contributions but not quite

 

Am up now to 31/35 years and the current tax year will make it 32 (will need to pay voluntary contributions October thro March as wont be working as in Thailand)

 

I'm happy at 32/35 considering how many years I've been in Thailand over last 4 decades

 

Couple of 5/6% increases before claiming will go down nicely. Others will disagree but I always considered our state pension as "bonus" money and to suddenly be getting around £11,000 per annum give or take (bear in mind what I said above) is great for me

 
I only plan one year - grab the 12/13% as I don't want to lose the 500,000 more than one year. For me, too, it's a bonus as I already have other pensions.

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, BobBKK said:

 Yes but if you are 66 after you move that's the date (if you claim it).

Sorry, I was asking if you had already moved before then & told HMRC & DWP that you were non-resident (I did when I was 42) would you be able to claim deferred Pension rights at 67+ (For me). 

 

FWIW I believe if I claimed a deferred state pension at 68 (58 now) I would get my pension as though I'd deferred it & was 68 in the UK.

 

[UKresonant]

I did not think the UK state pension deferral was going to work very well for me, should I be over in Thailand at claim time (67 now);-

 

Annual increases

After you claim your State Pension, the extra amount you get because you deferred will usually increase each year based on the Consumer Price Index. It will not increase for some people who live abroad.

https://www.gov.uk/deferring-state-pension/what-you-get

............

 

Still just under 6 years to go until claim date, unless .Gov default on it again.

40 years NI but would still need another 6 years NI to get full new state pension.

Current thinking is the state pension will be piled into and ISA or a purchased annuity buffer as it could become a bit undependable, if it's more of a political football.

 

Whispers on youtube that the politicians are going to restrict it for those that have put the effort in to their retirement plans, via means testing or taper. Another problem that the politicians recognized, the demographic change, but sat like dummies and did not address. Could have had hybrid building with a sovereign invested pension fund in play that would creep up to the proportion of the demographic change by now. UK .Gov project planning being pretty hopeless these days.

 

 

 

[Deerculler]

Speculation and conjecture about the tax.

The more everyone talks about the more everyone becomes confused.

Close the subject down until some one really knows.

Forums can be very helpful .

But only if it comes from those who do know.

Not those who think they know.