Clear from day 1

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

Will the Western Taxpayer be thrilled (after having paid for a war that the Ukraine was never able to win) to additionall pay for the "rebuilding" of the Ukraine?

As long as it's the western countries that supported the war paying that is fine- they deserve to have to pay, as they caused the damage by enabling the war to continue. The citizens also deserve to have to pay as they didn't protest about it.

 

I doubt any other countries will pay anything, as it's not of their making.

[Lacessit]

8 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

I suspect that is why the rockets were moved from Ukraine, to prevent tampering and sabotage.

 

This Kursk excursion is only 1000 troops. To say it is just theatre may be overstating it since 1000 armed man wreak a good havoc for a while, but given the numbers these Ukrainians face soon I would not put money on them holding on to any land.

 

All politicians by their nature lie like there is no tomorrow, however, we do not just have Putin making statements, we also have evidence of where the fighting is taking place. If Putin had intended to take all of Ukraine this campaign would have looked very different. And remember, Russia has an economy smaller than Texas, it knows it can not fight or occupy the Ukraine long term, since military might is based on economic strength. This is why these arguments that Putin wants all of Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia and Sweden, and to rebuild an Imperial Russia are so risible. They cannot, and Putin knows they cannot.

IMO the Kursk incursion has two purposes, to give Putin a propaganda black eye domestically, and divert Russian troops from the Donbas so Ukraine can push forward there again. I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians will withdraw in good order when it suits them.

 

The symbolism is undeniable, Kursk was the scene of the greatest tank battle in history. Humiliating.

 

I disagree Putin did not intend to take all of Ukraine. If that's the case, what was the 50 km long attack column heading for Kyiv all about?

 

You are correct about the size of the Russian economy. It would be a lot larger if it had not had a succession of incompetent governments since 1917.

 

IMO Putin wants everything he can get his hands on. He's a proven kleptomaniac, ask any oligarch. The ones that are still alive, that is.

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

The BBC is state owned as well. So if Gary Lineker says let's invade Germany this is then state policy? Come on man.

 

I have read the article, and the parts where Putin says Russians and Ukrainians share a history, well, he's in line with every Russian there, all Russians believe this. You know why? Because it's historical fact, Ukrainians and Russians are descended from the same people. This does not mean that Russia wants to recreate Imperial Russia, I hope you understand this.

All Russians believe this, true. The Ukrainians don't, they have a different language, alphabet, and history.

 

During the second world war, the Germans invading Ukraine were greeted as liberators. Kyiv surrendered without firing a shot, While the Ukrainians quickly learned there was no difference between a Russian and a German jackboot, it has enabled the Russians ever since to label them as Nazis.

 

War is theft writ large. Ukraine has 25% of the world's chernozems, the richest agricultural soil on the planet. I hope you understand this.

[Danderman123]

11 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Ukrainians are quite ingenious and beautiful people, no doubt about it. However, as Kenny Rogers tells us, "there'll be plenty of time for countin'..when the dealin's done".  And the way it looks now is that Ukraine will permanently retreat from the Donbass. 

 

Ukraine can not win anything by fighting Russia. Yes, Russia paid a price, but Ukraine has too, far worse.

 

And no, they could not have cracked the nuclear launch codes anymore  than Mexico could crack US nuclear codes.

 

 

It must give you cognitive dissonance that Russia can't stop Ukraine's offensive in Kursk.

 

It was 3 days ago that Russia claimed that they stopped the Ukrainians and killed them all. Do you believe them?

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

It must give you cognitive dissonance that Russia can't stop Ukraine's offensive in Kursk.

 

It was 3 days ago that Russia claimed that they stopped the Ukrainians and killed them all. Do you believe them?

IMO it's got to the stage nobody believes any statement out of the Kremlin. It's the same as Trump in America.

 

I am pretty sure any economic data the Russians publish has been massaged more than a 3-hour in Pattaya, although I doubt there is any happy ending.

[Cameroni]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

IMO the Kursk incursion has two purposes, to give Putin a propaganda black eye domestically, and divert Russian troops from the Donbas so Ukraine can push forward there again. I'm pretty sure the Ukrainians will withdraw in good order when it suits them.

 

The symbolism is undeniable, Kursk was the scene of the greatest tank battle in history. Humiliating.

 

I disagree Putin did not intend to take all of Ukraine. If that's the case, what was the 50 km long attack column heading for Kyiv all about?

 

You are correct about the size of the Russian economy. It would be a lot larger if it had not had a succession of incompetent governments since 1917.

 

IMO Putin wants everything he can get his hands on. He's a proven kleptomaniac, ask any oligarch. The ones that are still alive, that is.

 

That analysis of the Kursk raid seems plausible to me. However, the symbolism may go the other way, since in that tank battle you menion the Russians launched counter offensives that broke the Wehrmacht for good. Now too, it is inconceivable that 1000, 2000 or even 4000 troops can resist the overwhelming Russian force they will soon face.

 

That convoy on Kiev may have been a decoy to bind forces around Kiev, whilst Russia attacked its real objective, the Donbass. The convoy just disapeared out of the blue and never engaged Kiev. If the whole of Ukraine had been the goal then Western Ukraine would have been targeted militarily it seems to me but it has not. Given that Russia has severe limitations to its economy they may not have the capacity to fight and occupy all of Ukraine long term.

 

Russia's economic size is of course a result of its population size, which was reduced by 20 millon or so in WWII, as Russia did the real fighting to defeat Germany in WWII whilst Britain hid on its island mostly without an army, and the US focused on Japan. But yes, doctrinaire delusion of the communist kind was clearly a problem and incompetence as a whole too, not to mention corruption.

 

To be honest, I am surprised Putin has left so many oligarchs with their fortunes. They robbed Russia blind during the systemic changes, I would have thought he would go after all of them. But he used some as allies. Very pragmatic since he must hate them. 

Edited August 12 by Cameroni

[Cameroni]

4 hours ago, Lacessit said:

All Russians believe this, true. The Ukrainians don't, they have a different language, alphabet, and history.

 

During the second world war, the Germans invading Ukraine were greeted as liberators. Kyiv surrendered without firing a shot, While the Ukrainians quickly learned there was no difference between a Russian and a German jackboot, it has enabled the Russians ever since to label them as Nazis.

 

War is theft writ large. Ukraine has 25% of the world's chernozems, the richest agricultural soil on the planet. I hope you understand this.

 

Actually, you will find that the vast majority of Ukrainians have no idea how to speak Ukrainian or use their alphabet ,most speak Russian and use the Russian alphabet.

 

Yes, the Ukrainians did colloborate with the Germans to some extent, no doubt that is the fire which stokes the fascist insults from Russia.

 

As far as theft in war goes Russia has been restrained in this war. Do you remember Putin allowed a corridor for Ukraine to continue selling its resources by ships? This came to an end when the West continued to impose sanctions on Russia. It was pretty unique to have two warring parties agree to ship grain, and for one party to allow another to continue economic trade.

Edited August 12 by Cameroni

[Cameroni]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

It must give you cognitive dissonance that Russia can't stop Ukraine's offensive in Kursk.

 

It was 3 days ago that Russia claimed that they stopped the Ukrainians and killed them all. Do you believe them?

 

Not at all. It was perfectly clear to me that 1000 armed men can cause a lot of destruction before they are defeated. But I have no doubt these 1000 troops will be defeated, or will flee.

 

No, I think there are still Ukrainan troops in Russia, but I certainly would not celebrate jackbooted military terrorising the peaceful civilian population of Russia. Looks like pure terrorism on a civilian population. A bit akin to Britain carpet bombing civilians in WWII out of desperation, but obviously not as bad.

 

I don't think Russia said they had "killed them all", what they said is that they had stopped their advances and foiled an attempt to cross into another area. This may well be so.

 

Edited August 12 by Cameroni

[Lacessit]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Actually, you will find that the vast majority of Ukrainians have no idea how to speak Ukrainian or use their alphabet ,most speak Russian and use the Russian alphabet.

 

Yes, the Ukrainians did colloborate with the Germans to some extent, no doubt that is the fire which stokes the fascist insults from Russia.

 

As far as theft in war goes Russia has been restrained in this war. Do you remember Putin allowed a corridor for Ukraine to continue selling its resources by ships? This came to an end when the West continued to impose sanctions on Russia. It was pretty unique to have two warring parties agree to ship grain, and for one party to allow another to continue economic trade.

You have proof of your first assertion? It's hardly surprising any population where Russian is made compulsory for years in schools and officialdom should have it as another language. Why do you think French is the official language of New Caledonia?

 

I don't think you understand. Ukrainians hate Russians. Most of Eastern Europe does. In the aftermath of World War II, the Russians stole everything that was not nailed down, and some that was.

Then set up command economies that directed the lion's share of production to Moscow. Why do you think every country wanted to join NATO?

 

Russia has been restrained in this war? That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a long time on ASEAN. Russia is targeting civilian buildings, hospitals, power infrastructure and agricultural infrastructure with shells, bombs, missiles and drones. It is releasing hardened criminals from jail to fight, who are looting, raping and killing in the occupied areas. Restrained my aching butt.

 

The agreement to ship grain owes its existence to the fact there are three Russian gas pipelines crossing Ukraine into Europe. With Nordstream gone, that's most of what Russia has left. The deal certainly was not out of the goodness of Putin's heart.

 

You should lay off the Kremlin Kool-Aid, comrade. It's not doing your credibility any good.

 

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

You have proof of your first assertion? It's hardly surprising any population where Russian is made compulsory for years in schools and officialdom should have it as another language. Why do you think French is the official language of New Caledonia?

 

I don't think you understand. Ukrainians hate Russians. Most of Eastern Europe does. In the aftermath of World War II, the Russians stole everything that was not nailed down, and some that was.

Then set up command economies that directed the lion's share of production to Moscow. Why do you think every country wanted to join NATO?

 

Russia has been restrained in this war? That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a long time on ASEAN. Russia is targeting civilian buildings, hospitals, power infrastructure and agricultural infrastructure with shells, bombs, missiles and drones. It is releasing hardened criminals from jail to fight, who are looting, raping and killing in the occupied areas. Restrained my aching butt.

 

The agreement to ship grain owes its existence to the fact there are three Russian gas pipelines crossing Ukraine into Europe. With Nordstream gone, that's most of what Russia has left. The deal certainly was not out of the goodness of Putin's heart.

 

You should lay off the Kremlin Kool-Aid, comrade. It's not doing your credibility any good.

 

 

Just anecdotal, my kids went to a school where a number of Ukrainian refugees also arrived. The school tried to make them feel welcome by translating school messages in Ukrainian. Only for the Ukrainian parents to say they can't understand them and if they could write them in Russian. See this author as well, who is Ukrainian and says in private he speaks Russian. But I may have overcooked it. It would appear that about 67% to 80% of Ukrainians can speak Ukrainian, but used to speak Russian outside the home as teenagers, the other 33% to 20% speak mostly Russian. Since the invasion this has now changed dramatically for obvious reasons.

 

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/the-russian-language-is-another-victim-of-the-war/48526412

 

https://translatorswithoutborders.org/language-data-for-ukraine

 

It's a shame the Russian language has become a victim of this conflict, at my kids school they used to teach Russian, but after the war they closed the Russian department. Wholly philistine in my view.

 

Oh, I'm aware of the dislike for Russians, world wide, not just Europe wide. In terms of restraint, I specifically referred to economic exploitation if you read my message. The fact that two warring parties agree that the other can export its grain is really unheard of and quite rare.

Edited August 12 by Cameroni

[Rimmer]

Off topic post about WW2 removed

[swissie]

Western "war-reporting" leaves a lot to be desired for. So, from time to time, it is helpful to comment what is ACTUALLY happening in the Ukraine.

-The Ukraine is in the process of orchestrating some kind of "Battle of the Bulge" in the Northeast. Designed to draw away Russian troops away from the Donbass. Not working.

- The Russians advance steadily in the Donbass. The Ukraine has established a line of defense, declaring several strategic cities as "fortresses". (Like pearls on a string). 2 pearls of that string are the cities of Pakowsk and Selydowe. Both are likely to "fall" soon. Civilians leaving already. With this line of defense perforated, the Russians will be able to advance much faster.

All of this not of much interest to the "western press", mesmorised by the Ukrainian "Battle of the Bulge" currently.

Surely, the Ukrainian soldiers trying to hold the Donbass defence line miss their comrades sorely that have been sent to a public-relations stunt on Russian territory.

[Cameroni]

22 minutes ago, swissie said:

Western "war-reporting" leaves a lot to be desired for. So, from time to time, it is helpful to comment what is ACTUALLY happening in the Ukraine.

-The Ukraine is in the process of orchestrating some kind of "Battle of the Bulge" in the Northeast. Designed to draw away Russian troops away from the Donbass. Not working.

- The Russians advance steadily in the Donbass. The Ukraine has established a line of defense, declaring several strategic cities as "fortresses". (Like pearls on a string). 2 pearls of that string are the cities of Pakowsk and Selydowe. Both are likely to "fall" soon. Civilians leaving already. With this line of defense perforated, the Russians will be able to advance much faster.

All of this not of much interest to the "western press", mesmorised by the Ukrainian "Battle of the Bulge" currently.

Surely, the Ukrainian soldiers trying to hold the Donbass defence line miss their comrades sorely that have been sent to a public-relations stunt on Russian territory.

 

I agree with this post 100 per cent.

[swissie]

On 8/12/2024 at 11:01 AM, Lacessit said:

You have proof of your first assertion? It's hardly surprising any population where Russian is made compulsory for years in schools and officialdom should have it as another language. Why do you think French is the official language of New Caledonia?

 

I don't think you understand. Ukrainians hate Russians. Most of Eastern Europe does. In the aftermath of World War II, the Russians stole everything that was not nailed down, and some that was.

Then set up command economies that directed the lion's share of production to Moscow. Why do you think every country wanted to join NATO?

 

Russia has been restrained in this war? That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have read in a long time on ASEAN. Russia is targeting civilian buildings, hospitals, power infrastructure and agricultural infrastructure with shells, bombs, missiles and drones. It is releasing hardened criminals from jail to fight, who are looting, raping and killing in the occupied areas. Restrained my aching butt.

 

The agreement to ship grain owes its existence to the fact there are three Russian gas pipelines crossing Ukraine into Europe. With Nordstream gone, that's most of what Russia has left. The deal certainly was not out of the goodness of Putin's heart.

 

You should lay off the Kremlin Kool-Aid, comrade. It's not doing your credibility any good.

 

At some point, we must come down to the "nitty gritty".

I can tell, you despise war as I do. Formerly involving "Armies" on the battlefield only. Since WW2 "civilians" are part of "warfare".

But looking back 2000 years, most "victories" were won by armies that were able to "outgun" the opponent. A repetiton of ths constellation will happen in the case of the Ukraine. Borders to western countries are now strictly guarded. Too many Ukrainians between the age of 18 to 40 do not want to join the Ukrainian army anymore.

 

Spartakus, the American Indians, even Napoleon and Hitler were finally "outgunned". Of course the capability to "outgun" an opponent will change over time, but the chances that Russia will "outgun" the Ukraine today are frightenly high.
--------------------------------------------------
But more of importance: As I have raised the question before, "Who will pay for the rebuilding of the Ukraine, or what's left of it after the war"?

Unfortunately, I have not received any "remedies" concerning this matter by contributors of this forum, nor by the "western political elite". That's the "hot potato" that nobody wants to touch in the west. But Vladimir will, at a discount price.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, swissie said:

But more of importance: As I have raised the question before, "Who will pay for the rebuilding of the Ukraine, or what's left of it after the war"?

I'm sure some American company will be able to "pursuade" the US government to throw a few billion at them to do so. The only question will be how much will be actually used for reconstruction.

 

If the US government won't come to the party, Ukraine has loads of resources they can take in compensation.

[MicroB]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:45 PM, swissie said:

Western "war-reporting" leaves a lot to be desired for. So, from time to time, it is helpful to comment what is ACTUALLY happening in the Ukraine.

-The Ukraine is in the process of orchestrating some kind of "Battle of the Bulge" in the Northeast. Designed to draw away Russian troops away from the Donbass. Not working.

- The Russians advance steadily in the Donbass. The Ukraine has established a line of defense, declaring several strategic cities as "fortresses". (Like pearls on a string). 2 pearls of that string are the cities of Pakowsk and Selydowe. Both are likely to "fall" soon. Civilians leaving already. With this line of defense perforated, the Russians will be able to advance much faster.

All of this not of much interest to the "western press", mesmorised by the Ukrainian "Battle of the Bulge" currently.

Surely, the Ukrainian soldiers trying to hold the Donbass defence line miss their comrades sorely that have been sent to a public-relations stunt on Russian territory.

 

 

Ahem, its not "the Ukraine" but Ukraine. "The Ukraine" was a term used to delegitimise Ukraine as a sovereign state, reducing it to nothing more than a region to be carved up by Russia, Poland and Hungary.

[MicroB]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:16 AM, swissie said:

But more of importance: As I have raised the question before, "Who will pay for the rebuilding of the Ukraine, or what's left of it after the war"?

Unfortunately, I have not received any "remedies" concerning this matter by contributors of this forum, nor by the "western political elite". That's the "hot potato" that nobody wants to touch in the west. But Vladimir will, at a discount price.

 

Based on recent precedent, the International community via the UN. Following the negotiated end of the Yugoslav wars through the Dayton Agreement, the Office of the High Representative was established. The OHR's role was to oversee the civilian implementation of the agreement. The money is coming from the World Bank. the World bank raises funds in a variety of ways, including raising funds on the capital money. The bank has AAA rating so it can get low rates. Financial Intermediary Funds are the vehicle to ensure coordinated global responses to events, like war, and the main funders are the United States, the United Kingdom and Japan.

 

There is $140 billion in Russian Central Bank assets sitting in a Belgian Custodian Bank. There has been recent agreement to release earned interest to Ukraine, with the first tranche being used by Czechia to source artillary ammunition. Its within the purview of the EU whether to use those Russian assets for postwar reconstruction.

 

The G7 are also loaning Ukraine $50 Bn, guaranteed by the US, and funded through interest paid on $260bn of Russian assets in mostly European banks, topped up by sums from France, Canada and Japan, though Japan's contributed is set aside for non-defence purchases only.

 

The irony is that postwar, Russia might need some sort of Marshal Plan bailout, as its economy is basically is ruined. The alternative is that  Russia descends into a even more thuggish nation, with an increasingly weakened central government, and unpredictable seperatism, plus even more border disputes with FSU nations. Number 1 concern is Chechenya; what is Ramzan Kadyrov's game? He's not loyal to Russia, and its interesting to see, in the middle of Ukraine's incursion/seizure of the Kursk region, Putin goes to Chechenya, kisses the Quran at the new Prophet Jesus Mosque in Grozny, to drum up Chechen recruitment for the army. Recent prison riots indicates that Russia has basically tapped out the prison population for cannon fodder, and Putin is desperate not to do a full mobilisation in Moscow-St Petersburg, where his core support it.

 

The Chechen military are self funding and self equipped; basically a private army, and to date, they have supplied about 50,000 troops, equipped through the  Akhmat-Khadji Kadyrov Foundation. In addition, the Chechens are sending in food supplied into the annexed territories. I suspect Chechen support is conditional, conditional upon Moscow to continue to pour vast sums into a region that is historically backward and not particularly productive. Chechenyalreceives about $4-5 billion a year from Moscow. Kadyrov keeps hinting he is looking for investors into a refinery that woulld make the Republic self sufficient in energy; Putin is scared stiff that Chechenya will try to secede from Russia again.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

Japan's contributed is set aside for non-defence purchases only.

That is a surprise. I'd have thought they'd be only for defence purposes, though that depends on your definition of defence.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, MicroB said:

 

 

Ahem, its not "the Ukraine" but Ukraine. "The Ukraine" was a term used to delegitimise Ukraine as a sovereign state, reducing it to nothing more than a region to be carved up by Russia, Poland and Hungary.

Does anyone on here, other than yourself, care?

[MicroB]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is a surprise. I'd have thought they'd be only for defence purposes, though that depends on your definition of defence.

Defence=  Military expenditure.

 

Japan since WW2 has extremely strict export controls on defence equipment. Everyone knows this.

[MicroB]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Does anyone on here, other than yourself, care?

 

Am I supposed to answer that? I am not telepathic. Professor X is a comic book character, and not real.

 

I am content that I recognise Ukraine as a sovereign nation.

 

I am not content that people such as yourself refuse to recognise the independance of Ukraine.   I suspect the apologists for Russia are of a mind that Ukraine is not a real country without a real language. I have seen them state that.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18233844

 

Quote

 

"The Ukraine" is incorrect both grammatically and politically, says Oksana Kyzyma of the Embassy of Ukraine in London.

 

"Ukraine is both the conventional short and long name of the country," she says. "This name is stated in the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution."

 

The use of the article relates to the time before independence in 1991, when Ukraine was a republic of the Soviet Union known as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, she says. Since then, it should be merely Ukraine.

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/02/17/lets-call-ukraine-by-its-proper-name/#260980ce5d8b

 

Quote

 

The Polish term Ukrajina, or “the borderland,” first emerged during the 16th century when the Ukrainian lands were incorporated into the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. By the 18th century, the French introduced l’Ukraine, and the article stuck. The usage of “the Ukraine” then became most popular when it was a territorial entity of both the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union. But why does the article matter?

 

Following the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Ukrainian government declared in its constitution that it would hence forth be referred to as “Ukraine,” thus dropping the article. There were two justifications for this. First, in Russian and Ukrainian, the two most popularly spoken languages in Ukraine, articles do not exist, hence it seemed foolish to incorporate the article. Second, with the establishment of its independence, “the Ukraine” became a demeaning term, as it implied that Ukraine remained a territorial region of one of its former rulers.

 

 

You said by private message that you appreciated that I did not attack your posts like other forum members, but here you are being sarcastic  and attacking, for no reason it seems but to boost your posting count. Why did you feel compelled to post that worthless post? It has no value, and adds nothing to a discussion, except feeding your ego.

 

Its been 33 years. Have some respect for a country's constitution.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 minutes ago, MicroB said:

You said by private message that you appreciated that I did not attack your posts like other forum members,

To be clear I said that you hadn't insulted me, nothing about attacking me.

 

Re the Ukraine, it could be taken over by Russia or Poland or Santa Clause and I would lose no sleep over it. My only concern is that the fighting stops and the pawns in the Great Game can stop dying for the foolishness of old men and the greed of the 1%.

[candide]

On 8/25/2024 at 7:41 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

To be clear I said that you hadn't insulted me, nothing about attacking me.

 

Re the Ukraine, it could be taken over by Russia or Poland or Santa Clause and I would lose no sleep over it. My only concern is that the fighting stops and the pawns in the Great Game can stop dying for the foolishness of old men and the greed of the 1%.

1 divided by 140 million is much less than 1% 😀

[Zenyu kanari]

On 8/11/2024 at 9:09 AM, swissie said:

Will the Western Taxpayer be thrilled (after having paid for a war that the Ukraine was never able to win) to additionall pay for the "rebuilding" of the Ukraine?

The west will keep up and increase the support for Ukraine for as long as it is needed, you see the European Union has Solidarity as a core value, this means to help those who are in need. now Ukraine needs them more then ever. How would you feel if you were jumped by some a neighbour and your other neighbour would just stand there watching you being beat up.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Zenyu kanari said:

The west will keep up and increase the support for Ukraine for as long as it is needed, you see the European Union has Solidarity as a core value, this means to help those who are in need. now Ukraine needs them more then ever. How would you feel if you were jumped by some a neighbour and your other neighbour would just stand there watching you being beat up.

and just where are they going to get the money from to do so?

Perhaps you know where the money tree grows, but the rest of us don't.

[RayC]

On 8/29/2024 at 3:19 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

and just where are they going to get the money from to do so?

Perhaps you know where the money tree grows, but the rest of us don't.

 

Please don't assume that you speak for me.

 

I suggest that you search the internet. There are numerous sites which provide instruction in basic Economic theory and, in particular, how governments finance their expenditure.