Tax Return 2025

[Yumthai]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

21 hours ago, Yumthai said:

What I know is the ones who live hand to mouth certainly do not reach the threshold to pay tax.

 

The issue is with the remaining large part whose income qualify them to pay tax but do not. Those ones certainly use bank accounts, as Thailand becoming cashless, in order to fully enjoy their money. Their income is therefore as traceable as foreigners' remittances.

Many countries will become cashless in the future, some of them maybe in my lifetime. 

 

You point is? 

My point was TRD could enforce tax not only on foreigners but locals too since years and no action has been seen.       

[KhunHeineken]

12 minutes ago, norbra said:

Agreed, the easy money KH refers to has been available to the RD for decades.

True, but in 2024 they have decided to pull the trigger.  Why is it such a surprise?  It's easy, untapped money, just sitting there. 

[KhunHeineken]

1 minute ago, Yumthai said:

My point was TRD could enforce tax not only on foreigners but locals too since years and no action has been seen.       

As I just posted, so in 2024 they have decided the time has come.  Why is it such a surprise?  The party could last forever. 

[norbra]

54 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

As I just posted, so in 2024 they have decided the time has come.  Why is it such a surprise?  The party could last forever. 

As my application for a TIN from TRD was rejected I will continue to party.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

Did you need to notify the Norwegian authorities when changing to the Thai tax ? Or does the Thai authorities notify Norway of the change?

 

Quote

Persons who can document that they are resident in Thailand under the tax treaty between Norway and Thailand are entitled to tax exemption for pensions, disability benefits from the National Insurance Scheme and disability benefits from annuities if they can document that the pension/disability benefit is taxed in Thailand.........

You must therefore be able to submit a Certificate of Residence issued by the Thai tax authorities and explicitly stating that you are tax resident in Thailand pursuant to the tax treaty with Norway. You must also be able to submit an ”Income Tax Payment Certificate” from the Thai tax authorities as confirmation that tax has been paid in Thailand.

https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/employment-benefits-and-pensions/pension-and-disability-benefit/resident-abroad/countries/thailand/

 

 

[SouthThailand]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

can you apply for a tax return extension here?

 

Experts might have the answer for this question.

 

Some info here:

Rights and Duties of a Taxpayer | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

Thailand Tax Return Filing Deadlines - SHERRINGS

 

 

5. Tax Payment
Taxpayer is liable to file Personal Income Tax return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of March following the taxable year. Taxpayer, who derives income specified in c, d or f in 2.3 during the first six months of the taxable year is also required to file half - yearly return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of September of that taxable year. Any withholding tax or half-yearly tax which has been paid to the Revenue Department can be used as a credit against the tax liability at the end of the year.

 

4. Application for exemption or reduction of fine and surcharge
A taxpayer has the duty to file his tax return and pay proper taxes on time. Should he fail to do so, he will be subject to fine and surcharge on top of the tax due. However, on some special grounds he may request for exemption or reduction of fine. A tax officer does not have the power under any law to exempt or reduce surcharge. Only in the case where the Director-General grants an extension of the time period of tax payment or remittance and such tax has been paid or remitted within the extended time period, then the surcharge may be reduced to 50% thereof.

 

 

[Moonlover]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:12 AM, Old Croc said:

On 8/10/2024 at 6:06 PM, motdaeng said:

It's not surprising that (too) many foreigners think they need an invitation to follow (a) the law in thailand!

 

On 8/11/2024 at 10:12 AM, Old Croc said:

What's the (b) option?

Leave us in peace to get on with our lives.

[itsari]

55 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

 

 

Thank you, I am grateful for your help.

I will follow up the information.

 

[chilly07]

At my last retirement extension at Jomtien I presented my P60 HMRC tax declarations to show the origin of my pensions. This time they kept them wheras before they returned them. Not sure why but they contain a summary of tax deducted in the UK??? 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

At my last retirement extension at Jomtien I presented my P60 HMRC tax declarations to show the origin of my pensions. This time they kept them wheras before they returned them. Not sure why but they contain a summary of tax deducted in the UK??? 

I wouldn't read too much into that, Immigration likes copies of whatever they can get their hands on. They almost certainly wouldn't know what it was for or what it signified. Next time, don't offer unnecessary paperwork unless asked, it just causes problems.

[itsari]

18 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

Hi Jim , I was reading the information on the link you kindly provided and I have a question on if I could pay the Thai tax in advance .

I ask that as the Tax Residency Certificate is not a problem but the requirment for prove of payment is confusing to have both sets of documents at the same time to allow the 15 percent tax not to be deducted by the Norwegian Tax Authoritity.

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

20 hours ago, Yumthai said:

My point was TRD could enforce tax not only on foreigners but locals too since years and no action has been seen.       

Since when did you think, as a farang, you have the same right to pay no tax as a Thai? 

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, norbra said:

As my application for a TIN from TRD was rejected I will continue to party.

Apply again next week and you'll probably be issued one. 

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, SouthThailand said:

 

Experts might have the answer for this question.

 

Some info here:

Rights and Duties of a Taxpayer | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

Personal Income Tax | The Revenue Department (English Site) (rd.go.th)

 

Thailand Tax Return Filing Deadlines - SHERRINGS

 

 

5. Tax Payment
Taxpayer is liable to file Personal Income Tax return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of March following the taxable year. Taxpayer, who derives income specified in c, d or f in 2.3 during the first six months of the taxable year is also required to file half - yearly return and make a payment to the Revenue Department within the last day of September of that taxable year. Any withholding tax or half-yearly tax which has been paid to the Revenue Department can be used as a credit against the tax liability at the end of the year.

 

4. Application for exemption or reduction of fine and surcharge
A taxpayer has the duty to file his tax return and pay proper taxes on time. Should he fail to do so, he will be subject to fine and surcharge on top of the tax due. However, on some special grounds he may request for exemption or reduction of fine. A tax officer does not have the power under any law to exempt or reduce surcharge. Only in the case where the Director-General grants an extension of the time period of tax payment or remittance and such tax has been paid or remitted within the extended time period, then the surcharge may be reduced to 50% thereof.

 

 

An extension look near impossible then. 

[KhunHeineken]

19 hours ago, Moonlover said:

 

Leave us in peace to get on with our lives.

The price of "peace" in Thailand went up in 2024. 

[KhunHeineken]

17 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I wouldn't read too much into that, Immigration likes copies of whatever they can get their hands on. They almost certainly wouldn't know what it was for or what it signified. Next time, don't offer unnecessary paperwork unless asked, it just causes problems.

I agree, but if that's the case, why did they return the documents in previous years, but kept them this year?  Could it be they are under new instructions?  Makes you wonder if they will be requesting such documents at renewal time next year.  Best to be prepared for the possibility. 

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, norbra said:

Agreed, the easy money KH refers to has been available to the RD for decades.

Why would it be so surprising to see Thailand go down the same tax path as many western countries who chase every dollar of tax from their middle class? 

 

The wealthy don't pay, the poor can't pay, so they squeeze the middle class. 

 

Certain classes of countries are designated as "developing nations."  As the country "develops" they build a middle class, and the country's tax system develops with it. 

 

It was only a matter of time before Thailand started to track, trace, and tax funds.  Perhaps 2024 / 25 is that year. 

 

Thailand has followed western countries in many ways, why wouldn't they adopt similar tax policies? 

[norbra]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Why would it be so surprising to see Thailand go down the same tax path as many western countries who chase every dollar of tax from their middle class? 

 

The wealthy don't pay, the poor can't pay, so they squeeze the middle class. 

 

Certain classes of countries are designated as "developing nations."  As the country "develops" they build a middle class, and the country's tax system develops with it. 

 

It was only a matter of time before Thailand started to track, trace, and tax funds.  Perhaps 2024 / 25 is that year. 

 

Thailand has followed western countries in many ways, why wouldn't they adopt similar tax policies? 

60000 baht assessable income @5%,if it happens,still makes for a cheap party

Edited August 14 by norbra

[KhunHeineken]

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

No, its people reading stuff into the regulation that are not there.

Sure, but no harm in considering all scenarios, good and bad, right?

 

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Its people panicking when they have no need to do so. 

Panicking, or preparing?  There is a difference. 

 

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

Its people on forums spreading nonsense as fact.

As I have said before, I consider best case scenario, worse case scenario, and every scenario in between.

 

Like most on this forum, I am already a tax resident of Thailand because I have been here more than 180 days this calendar year.  So, I am in the game.  This was by choice. 

 

I decided to stay and let Thailand get me this first time around, but I am minimizing my cash remits and topping up with ATM withdrawals with my home country Visa card.  I will also do a cash run when in Singapore for the F1. 

 

If I feel the tax is an amount I do not wish to pay in 2026, I will spend 179 days in Thailand next year, and the rest in Vietnam. 

 

So, nonsense or fact, that's my plan. 

 

In my opinion, some of the "facts" put forward have some nonsense in them, and some of the "nonsense" put forward has some facts in them. 

 

We must also remember "TIT" and on that basis, anything is possible.  The only way to prepare for TIT is to consider all scenarios, even the ridiculous, because that's Thailand.  

 

21 hours ago, Doctor Tom said:

I will not be paying any of this new tax as I am not a Thai National, or tax resident, not registered for tax,  here earning money from overseas.    

So, you have no skin in the game. 

 

Taking active steps to ensure one does not become a tax resident of Thailand may be the way to go for some, possibly many.  We just don't know at this stage what the Thai authorities will do between the 1st Jan and 31st March 2025. 

 

Until then, I'll continue to consider all "nonsense" and all "fact" put forward by all members.  Some I will dismiss quickly, some I will give consideration to.  

 

As I have said before, I just can't see all of this going away, but I hope I am wrong and it basically becomes non existent for the majority of expat retirees.  Time will tell. 

 

[KhunHeineken]

16 minutes ago, norbra said:

60000 baht assessable income @5%,if it happens,still makes for a cheap party

I agree, but it's just interesting that quite a few members have the believe that it will not happen, can not happen, is impossible to collect, is not enforceable, Thailand is incapable of doing it, it's scaremongering etc etc etc etc. 

 

Yet, they paid tax in their home country since they started working in their mid to late teens, but no way could Thailand have a similar tax policy.  

[Moonlover]

10 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Sure, but no harm in considering all scenarios, good and bad, right?

 

Panicking, or preparing?  There is a difference. 

 

As I have said before, I consider best case scenario, worse case scenario, and every scenario in between.

 

Like most on this forum, I am already a tax resident of Thailand because I have been here more than 180 days this calendar year.  So, I am in the game.  This was by choice. 

 

I decided to stay and let Thailand get me this first time around, but I am minimizing my cash remits and topping up with ATM withdrawals with my home country Visa card.  I will also do a cash run when in Singapore for the F1. 

 

If I feel the tax is an amount I do not wish to pay in 2026, I will spend 179 days in Thailand next year, and the rest in Vietnam. 

 

So, nonsense or fact, that's my plan. 

 

In my opinion, some of the "facts" put forward have some nonsense in them, and some of the "nonsense" put forward has some facts in them. 

 

We must also remember "TIT" and on that basis, anything is possible.  The only way to prepare for TIT is to consider all scenarios, even the ridiculous, because that's Thailand.  

 

So, you have no skin in the game. 

 

Taking active steps to ensure one does not become a tax resident of Thailand may be the way to go for some, possibly many.  We just don't know at this stage what the Thai authorities will do between the 1st Jan and 31st March 2025. 

 

Until then, I'll continue to consider all "nonsense" and all "fact" put forward by all members.  Some I will dismiss quickly, some I will give consideration to.  

 

As I have said before, I just can't see all of this going away, but I hope I am wrong and it basically becomes non existent for the majority of expat retirees.  Time will tell. 

 

You think too much! Why make all this fuss without any evidence that the sky is actually falling?

 

And by the way in the very unlikely event that the sky does fall, using your home country bank card to draw cash from an ATM will not protect you from paying tax on the that money.

 

'Expats often ask if withdrawing cash in Thailand from an overseas account or paying a third party, like school fees with a foreign credit card, counts as a remittance taxable in Thailand. The answer is yes. Both types of transactions are seen as remittances into Thailand and are taxable. Under the CRS, these transactions are automatically reported to the Revenue Department, making them aware of these financial activities'.

 

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/how-crs-enables-thailands-tax-authorities-to-track-your-finances/

 

[Captain Flack]

A flame post adding nothing to the discussion has been removed.

[KhunHeineken]

Just now, Moonlover said:

You think too much! Why make all this fuss without any evidence that the sky is actually falling?

Who said the sky is falling?  It's Thai tax policy.  It's the law.  Why do you think you can stand outside of it? 

 

1 minute ago, Moonlover said:

And by the way in the very unlikely event that the sky does fall, using your home country bank card to draw cash from an ATM will not protect you from paying tax on the that money.

True, but in my opinion, that really would push the boundaries of Thailand's capabilities, especially when you consider the amount of tourism here. 

 

That said, banks, through various tax departments in different countries, are now communicating. 

 

Why is it so difficult for people to accept that the days of tax havens, tax free residency, and hiding money, are slowly coming to an end? 

 

As norbra said, it will still be a cheap party for many here, just no longer a free party.  Just like many western countries, you can't keep the tax man at bay for ever. 

 

 

[Doctor Tom]

A None Immigrant O or OA is nothing more than a glorified tourist visa.  It gives no more certainty of long term living in the country than does a long term tourist visa.  Do you think that for one moment, tourists are going to have to pay Thai tax on money they bring into the country, even if they extend past 180 days?  Do you therefore believe that retired expats will be swept up into this, even if the criteria published to date does not show or state this?  Do you believe that the Thais are so short sighted that those with the None O or OA will leave the country after 180 days and use their  not inconsiderable spending power sitting on a beach in Cambodia or Vietnam and deprive the Thai treasury of much more than the tax they would otherwise pay, if that were proposed? I don't believe any of this. 

Edited August 14 by Doctor Tom

[KhunHeineken]

13 minutes ago, Doctor Tom said:

A None Immigrant O or OA is nothing more than a glorified tourist visa.  It gives no more certainty of long term living in the country than does a long term tourist visa.  Do you think that for one moment, tourists are going to have to pay Thai tax on money they bring into the country, even if they extend past 180 days?  Do you therefore believe that retired expats will be swept up into this, even if the criteria published to date does not show or state this?  Do you believe that the Thais are so short sighted that those with the None O or OA will leave the country after 180 days and use their  not inconsiderable spending power sitting on a beach in Cambodia or Vietnam and deprive the Thai treasury of much more than the tax they would otherwise pay, if that were proposed? I don't believe any of this. 

World wide income is a a global tax policy, not just a Thai tax policy. 

 

Thailand is falling into line with global tax standards. 

 

For tourists, and expats for that matter, bringing in cash, it will not be able to be tracked and taxed, unless it's over the declared amount when bringing it in, hence my F1 / cash run to Singapore. 

 

For anyone transferring funds into a Thai bank account, once Thailand get their ducks in a row, how do you propose they avoid paying tax?  The money goes through a central banking system and makes its way to the retail banking system.  Source, amounts, dates, rates, and deposit is tracked all along the money's journey.   

 

Your assessment is because it may force some expats to leave Thailand for 6 months a year, the Thai's will not implement it, but world wide income is a global policy, spreading across many countries. 

 

What they may lose in expats leaving for 6 months they can pick up in taxing the expats that remain. 

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, itsari said:

I have a question on if I could pay the Thai tax in advance .

I ask that as the Tax Residency Certificate is not a problem but the requirment for prove of payment is confusing to have both sets of documents at the same time to allow the 15 percent tax not to be deducted by the Norwegian Tax Authoritity.

 

I doubt you can pay Thai tax in advance -- just file as early as possible when filing opens up at the beginning of the year -- and that may give you sufficient time before filing Norwegian tax forms.

 

But, how you go about getting the Norwegian exemption is not readily apparent from Google, at least in English. The below reference does have contact information with the Norwegian tax authorities, which sounds promising:

https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/get-the-taxes-right/employment-benefits-and-pensions/pension-and-disability-benefit/resident-abroad/countries/thailand/#:~:text=Under the tax treaty between Norway and Thailand article 18,exempt the pension from tax.

Quote

Skatteetaten
Postboks 9200 Grønland
NO – 0134 OSLO

Phone number when calling from abroad +47 22 07 70 00
Phone number when calling from Norway  800 80 000

E-mail: You cannot use e-mail, but send us a message.

Remember to quote your national identity number or D number in enquiries to the Tax Administration.

Good luck. 

[Doctor Tom]

11 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Your assessment is because it may force some expats to leave Thailand for 6 months a year, the Thai's will not implement it, but world wide income is a global policy, spreading across many countries. 

You are wrong.  There is no international agreement on double taxation of income.  You pay tax where you are tax resident, or where you generate additional untaxed funds, you do not pay tax by international agreement where tax has been previously paid, unless its a one off tax  not tied to income, such as a tourist tax on arrival or on travel tickets etc .  

[jwest10]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:23 AM, Presnock said:

That may still be breaking Thai Tax Law if you ae here more than 180 days of 2024 and do remit ASSESSABLE income then according to their laws, you should obtain a Thai Tax ID number and fill out the tax forms.  They of course say it will be up to the individual to OBEY the law.  If the DTA of your country with Thailand exempts monies you remit then and you have no other asssessable income, then by their law you don't have to get an ID number and file taxes.  If you do have assessable income, they could at some point audit you back for up to 10 years and require you to pay any back tax with penalties too.  The Revenue Department provides an ENGLISH translation of their tax laws as well as the Thai version too.  Easy enough to find and understand.  Best of luck to you!

Beg to differ not easy at all

[JimGant]

20 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

For anyone transferring funds into a Thai bank account, once Thailand get their ducks in a row, how do you propose they avoid paying tax?  

 

Easy. Just show TRD all the money I wired to Thailand is non assessable: Air Force pension; Social Security; inheritiance from Aunt Martha; pre-2024 money from a savings account; loan from Chase Bank, to buy a condo; gift from daddy; whatever. TRD doesn't have the resources to interview even those farangs with large wires to Thailand. They might do random tax compliance audits from this pool of fat cat farangs. But even here they'll probably find little assessable income -- or if they do, that this assessable income doesn't rise to the level of taxable income. 

 

The tricky part might be -- if I've co-mingled funds -- my rationale for figuring out what part of this chunk of fungible dollars is non assessable income. If TRD finally puts out guidance on this -- well, their rules may not be to our benefit. But if no guidance, and you're free to pick and choose as you wish -- well, any discussion with TRD might be very spirited. Nevertheless, without any guidance, it's hard to imagine TRD saying, "your rationale sucks, therefore you're a tax evader." But why worry about this, when the chance of being called in by TRD for a chat is zilch. 

 

 

 

 

[chiang mai]

44 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

World wide income is a a global tax policy, not just a Thai tax policy. 

 

Thailand is falling into line with global tax standards. 

 

For tourists, and expats for that matter, bringing in cash, it will not be able to be tracked and taxed, unless it's over the declared amount when bringing it in, hence my F1 / cash run to Singapore. 

 

For anyone transferring funds into a Thai bank account, once Thailand get their ducks in a row, how do you propose they avoid paying tax?  The money goes through a central banking system and makes its way to the retail banking system.  Source, amounts, dates, rates, and deposit is tracked all along the money's journey.   

 

Your assessment is because it may force some expats to leave Thailand for 6 months a year, the Thai's will not implement it, but world wide income is a global policy, spreading across many countries. 

 

What they may lose in expats leaving for 6 months they can pick up in taxing the expats that remain. 

Worldwide income is not a global tax policy, that's nonsense.  Read this:

 

https://premieroffshore.com/which-countries-tax-worldwide-income/