Tax Return 2025

[KhunHeineken]

10 minutes ago, acepredator said:

Wrong. Under Article 20, subsection 1. of the DTA between The United States and Thailand, government pensions, which means Social Security, can only be taxed by the United States government. Under subsection 3. of Article 20, annuities, which pay out funds in predetermined amounts at regular time intervals, also can only be taxed by the United States tax authorities. Maybe the DTA between your country and Thailand says something different. 

Yeah, it does. 

 

I'm Australia.n  It's a different DTA. So thats doesn't make me "wrong."  Right? 

 

Have you heard of the country called "Australia?"  Do you know where "Australia" is?  Hint:  It's not in Texas.  

Edited August 16 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Any retired expat who remains in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days each calendar year is considered to be tax resident here whether they like it or not. This is mot a matter of choice whether to be tac resident or not, if you remain here you are.

Correct. 

 

Thailand's classification for tax residency is a physical presence and time based model. 

 

Over 180 days inside Thailand per calendar year = resident for taxation purposes.  

 

Less than 180 days inside Thailand per calendar year = non resident for taxation purposes. 

 

                                                          Simple. 

[acepredator]

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Yeah, it does. 

 

I'm Australia.n  It's a different DTA. So that's doesn't make me "wrong."  Right? 

 

Have you heard of the country called "Australia?"  Do you know where "Australia" is?  Hint:  It's not in Texas.  

Yes, I understand that it's located a bit south of Texas. Also, that it's famous for it's beautiful beaches (not on a par with Hawaii, but not too far off), Foster's Lager (much better than Heineken), and standoffish women. I'll take a lovely, sweet, welcoming, and accommodating Thai woman any day of the week. 

[Danderman123]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Sorry, I didn't see that part, I just kinda jumped in and responded to something I read that I felt needed to be corrected, mea culpa. Soooo, if the question is how much and how long before a yield of 0.5% incurs tax etc etc....about 4 mill plus for one year will generate 20k which might be free of tax at the bank and negate the need to file a return.

Bottom line:

 

Less than 4 million baht in a savings account results in less than 20K interest per annum, thus no need to get a Thai tax id or file a tax return.

 

Note that most ex-pats have to deal with the minimum of 800,000 baht in a bank account, thus bank account interest is probably not going to be a big factor in this new tax snafu.

[Presnock]

On 8/11/2024 at 11:15 AM, NorthernRyland said:

I didn't file my TM30 for at LEAST 10 years (maybe my old land lady filed but I doubt it) but the other year out of the blue they decided they wanted it. What happened? I paid 1,600 baht fine and no mention was made that I broke the law for so many years.  That's typical of Thailand in my experience.

actually, before they pushed for this tm.30 bit, there was the TM.28 which was the expat responsibility for providing staying away from home or whereever but they finally just trashed that and then started the pressure on expats to insure that someone filed a TM.30 or the expat might even be fined although it wasn't really our responsibility but after all is said and done, TIT rules always.

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

Bottom line:

 

Less than 4 million baht in a savings account results in less than 20K interest per annum, thus no need to get a Thai tax id or file a tax return.

 

Note that most ex-pats have to deal with the minimum of 800,000 baht in a bank account, thus bank account interest is probably not going to be a big factor in this new tax snafu.

I don't think that is the bottom line. Many expats, including myself, keep their 400/800k baht in a fixed deposit which even today can pay over 2%. 800k at 2.5% is 20,000 baht interest and if the person doesn't have a TIN to show the bank, tax will be deducted from that interest, from day one. If the expat is happy to lose that 15% tax and not reclaim it, they don't need a TIN. But it seems silly to do so when there really is no downside to getting one and reclaiming the tax. If you think that by not reclaiming it, you stay under the radar, I think that is not true since the bank knows your name, address and has a copy of your passport and visa. Banks don't collect that information because they want to!

[gamb00ler]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I don't think that is the bottom line. Many expats, including myself, keep their 400/800k baht in a fixed deposit which even today can pay over 2%. 800k at 2.5% is 20,000 baht interest and if the person doesn't have a TIN to show the bank, tax will be deducted from that interest, from day one. If the expat is happy to lose that 15% tax and not reclaim it, they don't need a TIN. But it seems silly to do so when there really is no downside to getting one and reclaiming the tax. If you think that by not reclaiming it, you stay under the radar, I think that is not true since the bank knows your name, address and has a copy of your passport and visa. Banks don't collect that information because they want to!

I only have experience with a fixed deposit account at Bangkok bank.  Even if you have a Thai tax ID on file with them, they will still withhold 15% of the interest earned on that fixed deposit account.  For that reason I switched from fixed account at BBL to EZ Savings at SCB (1.5%) a couple of years ago when BBL fixed deposit was paying less.  Now, I'm fortunate enough to be able to get an income letter from my consulate to remove that 800k/400k ball and chain.

Edited August 16 by gamb00ler

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

I only have experience with a fixed deposit account at Bangkok bank.  Even if you have a Thai tax ID on file with them, they will still withhold 15% of the interest earned on that fixed deposit account.

There's no escaping tax on fixed deposits, they cannot be paid without first deducting tax, they are something of an anomaly and appear to be regarded as investments rather than savings. But the interest can still be reclaimed via a tax return but that's the only way. But the same argument about obtaining a TIN applies not just to fixed deposits but to all accounts that pay interest.

Edited August 16 by chiang mai

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I don't think that is the bottom line. Many expats, including myself, keep their 400/800k baht in a fixed deposit which even today can pay over 2%. 800k at 2.5% is 20,000 baht interest and if the person doesn't have a TIN to show the bank, tax will be deducted from that interest, from day one. If the expat is happy to lose that 15% tax and not reclaim it, they don't need a TIN. But it seems silly to do so when there really is no downside to getting one and reclaiming the tax. If you think that by not reclaiming it, you stay under the radar, I think that is not true since the bank knows your name, address and has a copy of your passport and visa. Banks don't collect that information because they want to!

Yes, local banks probably already share but if not then will begin to share banking data to the revenue department and then it will be up to them to get your banking data from your home country if they signed on to FACTA or CSR and the OECD 2023 agreement.  Once the data sharing begins in earnest, the locals will either be totally swamped and delay total implementation or they will just select a certain limit where they will concentrate their efforts.  Maybe the new govt will have totally different ideas - though they will be looking for any baht they can find too.  

[bkk6060]

Yes, TRD is very high tech.  They probably will be able to pull up anyones total financial information/transactions just by clicking a button.

 

All foreign bank and savings accounts, brokerage accounts, Ira, 401k, etc.

All transfers in and out of those accounts ACH, swift.

All the jobs, pensions, capital gains, tax returns, etc.

All  the WIse, Remitly, Western Union, Pay pal, Venmo, Zelle, Transfrwise, Moneygram, Apple pay, etc etc.

All credit card usage

All ATM usage

All debit card usage

 

I am sure I missed something.

 

Seems no way to hide anything so be prepared and ready.

Edited August 17 by bkk6060

[Ben Zioner]

On 8/16/2024 at 11:27 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Yeah, it does. 

 

I'm Australia.n  It's a different DTA. So thats doesn't make me "wrong."  Right? 

 

Have you heard of the country called "Australia?"  Do you know where "Australia" is?  Hint:  It's not in Texas.  

You're an Aussie and call yourself Heineken? Things seem to have changes a lot down under. Was the KhunXXXX taken? 

 

Miss the "Cold Gold" though, while sharing my lambs chops with the Emus and Roos at Tidbinbilla.

[chiang mai]

On 8/17/2024 at 7:44 AM, bkk6060 said:

Yes, TRD is very high tech.  They probably will be able to pull up anyones total financial information/transactions just by clicking a button.

 

All foreign bank and savings accounts, brokerage accounts, Ira, 401k, etc.

All transfers in and out of those accounts ACH, swift.

All the jobs, pensions, capital gains, tax returns, etc.

All  the WIse, Remitly, Western Union, Pay pal, Venmo, Zelle, Transfrwise, Moneygram, Apple pay, etc etc.

All credit card usage

All ATM usage

All debit card usage

 

I am sure I missed something.

 

Seems no way to hide anything so be prepared and ready.

You do understand that the TRD doesn't need to do any of those things. It's solely down to the taxpayer to declare what they want to declare and to be be prepared to support what they do declare with proof, if needed. Unless of course, by some quirk of fate the TRD happens to come across one of the items on your list , maybe even by accident, and asks, did you declare this?

[Yumthai]

 

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

You do understand that the TRD doesn't need to do any of those things. It's solely down to the taxpayer to declare what they want to declare and to be be prepared to support what they do declare with proof, if needed. Unless of course, by some quirk of fate the TRD happens to come across one of the items on your list , maybe even by accident, and asks, did you declare this?

I think everybody is prepared and ready for the usual nothingburger.

[Lacessit]

On 8/17/2024 at 4:41 AM, chiang mai said:

I don't think that is the bottom line. Many expats, including myself, keep their 400/800k baht in a fixed deposit which even today can pay over 2%. 800k at 2.5% is 20,000 baht interest and if the person doesn't have a TIN to show the bank, tax will be deducted from that interest, from day one. If the expat is happy to lose that 15% tax and not reclaim it, they don't need a TIN. But it seems silly to do so when there really is no downside to getting one and reclaiming the tax. If you think that by not reclaiming it, you stay under the radar, I think that is not true since the bank knows your name, address and has a copy of your passport and visa. Banks don't collect that information because they want to!

I probably made a mistake in not putting my 800K into fixed deposit, the agent who first got my retirement visa might have been responsible.

 

I get about 4K baht in interest, pay 500 baht tax. I can't be bothered chasing that.

 

Do you know how to convert the 800K into fixed deposit from cash at call, without sending Immigration into the vapors?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I probably made a mistake in not putting my 800K into fixed deposit, the agent who first got my retirement visa might have been responsible.

 

I get about 4K baht in interest, pay 500 baht tax. I can't be bothered chasing that.

 

Do you know how to convert the 800K into fixed deposit from cash at call, without sending Immigration into the vapors?

You can do that any time, apart from during seasoning periods (if any apply). My extension is due mid December but my fixed deposit renews in June. It's been fixed for at least a decade in one two and three year fixes. If there is some slip up or delay renewing the fix, I've got plenty of time to get it sorted. This has never been an issue with Immi., at least not for me.

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

 

I think everybody is prepared and ready for the usual nothingburger.

Older people in particular, want peace of mind, anxiety increases with age so knowing that things have been done properly is important to many people. The older you are, the fewer chances a person will take in this respect, younger guys however are more likely to have two patties in their double nothing burger!

[Sevenomma]

On 8/13/2024 at 5:46 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Can you tell me what "benefit" you got for paying tax here? 

 

Most, including myself, have paid zero tax whilst living here, VAT aside. 

 

Why do you proudly post that you have paid money for nothing here? 

Can you read? Or dont you understand what I was writing?? I have more money left to use on myself and my family when I pay tax to Thailand. 

[sometimewoodworker]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:18 PM, Lacessit said:

 

 

Do you know how to convert the 800K into fixed deposit from cash at call, without sending Immigration into the vapors?

You will need to do it at a bank branch, to be safe it will need to be accounts at the same bank and branch. Immigration is unlikely to create problems if the opening of a fixed deposit account and deposit of the 800k is done on the same day as the withdrawal of the 800k from the savings account.

There was one individual who did manage to change banks but AFIR it took quite some perseverance to convince immigration not to cancel his extension.

[gamb00ler]

On 8/18/2024 at 5:18 PM, Lacessit said:

Do you know how to convert the 800K into fixed deposit from cash at call, without sending Immigration into the vapors?

 

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You will need to do it at a bank branch, to be safe it will need to be accounts at the same bank and branch. Immigration is unlikely to create problems if the opening of a fixed deposit account and deposit of the 800k is done on the same day as the withdrawal of the 800k from the savings account.

There was one individual who did manage to change banks but AFIR it took quite some perseverance to convince immigration not to cancel his extension.

Initially, I had my 800K in a fixed account at Bangkok bank.  I went to SCB and opened an EZ Savings account (1.5%/year).  During the time I was required to only have 400K on deposit I moved 400K to SCB account and left 400K at Bangkok bank.  I maintained those balances for a couple of months to show beyond doubt that there was no time that I didn't have 400K on deposit.  On the termination date of the fixed account at Bangkok I moved the 400K from Bangkok account to SCB to meet the upcoming requirement to have 800K on deposit.  When my extension was coming due I got letters and statements from both banks to show sufficient funds for the months required.  After my extension was granted I closed the Bangkok bank fixed account.  The Thai Imm. officer spent several minutes looking at the dates and balances to make sure I met the requirements at all times.

 

I'm so glad that now that I'm on my pension, I can just get an income letter from my consulate and avoid these silly gyrations over bank balances.

Edited August 20 by gamb00ler

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/19/2024 at 3:15 AM, Sevenomma said:

Can you read? Or dont you understand what I was writing?? I have more money left to use on myself and my family when I pay tax to Thailand. 

I understand English is not your first language. 

 

Do you understand my question? 

 

Why have you paid tax when you didn't have to?  I can't make the question any more simple than that? 

[topt]

21 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

I understand English is not your first language. 

 

Do you understand my question? 

 

Why have you paid tax when you didn't have to?  I can't make the question any more simple than that? 

Pretty obvious to me and has been mentioned by others in the past. He pays a significantly lower rate of tax paying it in Thailand then he would do paying it in Norway.

My understanding, which could of course be wrong, is that he does not have the option of not paying it in Norway unless he can prove he has paid in Thailand.

From the figures he quoted it is a no brainer. 

[Sevenomma]

22 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

I understand English is not your first language. 

 

Do you understand my question? 

 

Why have you paid tax when you didn't have to?  I can't make the question any more simple than that? 

I have to pay tax because I live here! What is your first language? 

[KhunHeineken]

2 hours ago, Sevenomma said:

I have to pay tax because I live here! What is your first language? 

I live here also and have paid no tax since living here full time.   Why have you paid tax in Thailand? 

 

English is my first language. 

Edited August 22 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/21/2024 at 5:46 AM, topt said:

Pretty obvious to me and has been mentioned by others in the past. He pays a significantly lower rate of tax paying it in Thailand then he would do paying it in Norway.

My understanding, which could of course be wrong, is that he does not have the option of not paying it in Norway unless he can prove he has paid in Thailand.

From the figures he quoted it is a no brainer. 

I haven't read all of his posts. 

 

A quick Google shows Norway  taxes world wide income. 

 

I could understand him not wanting to be a tax resident of Norway, but he could do that and still not pay tax in Thailand, like thousands here receiving rental income, share dividends, interest etc from their home countries. 

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/norway/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

 

"Norwegian tax legislation distinguishes between full tax liability for resident taxpayers and limited tax liability for non-resident taxpayers. Residents are liable to income tax on their worldwide income, whereas non-resident taxpayers are only subject to income tax on specific types of income from Norwegian sources."

[Sevenomma]

On 8/22/2024 at 8:52 AM, KhunHeineken said:

Its really funny that you want to teach me about Norwegian tax system.

 

 

On 8/22/2024 at 8:52 AM, KhunHeineken said:

I haven't read all of his posts. 

 

A quick Google shows Norway  taxes world wide income. 

 

I could understand him not wanting to be a tax resident of Norway, but he could do that and still not pay tax in Thailand, like thousands here receiving rental income, share dividends, interest etc from their home countries. 

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/norway/individual/taxes-on-personal-income

 

"Norwegian tax legislation distinguishes between full tax liability for resident taxpayers and limited tax liability for non-resident taxpayers. Residents are liable to income tax on their worldwide income, whereas non-resident taxpayers are only subject to income tax on specific types of income from Norwegian sources."

 

Edited August 24 by Sevenomma

[Sevenomma]

Fixed deposit? I have enough income every month, over 65 000 thb. I am not able to spend all money. The rest I save in Bitcoin and other crypto. I sold some of it when Bitcoin was 2,5 million thaibath. Good luck with your fixed deposit!

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/24/2024 at 5:54 AM, Sevenomma said:

 

 

It's really funny you have paid tax when you did not have to, but the Thai government thanks you for your donation. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/24/2024 at 6:09 AM, Sevenomma said:

Fixed deposit? I have enough income every month, over 65 000 thb. I am not able to spend all money. The rest I save in Bitcoin and other crypto. I sold some of it when Bitcoin was 2,5 million thaibath. Good luck with your fixed deposit!

What has that got to do with previously paying tax in Thailand?

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/16/2024 at 4:35 PM, acepredator said:

I'll take a lovely, sweet, welcoming, and accommodating Thai woman any day of the week. 

And the "tax" for that has gone up in 2024. 

[KhunHeineken]

On 8/18/2024 at 9:55 AM, Ben Zioner said:

You're an Aussie and call yourself Heineken? Things seem to have changes a lot down under. Was the KhunXXXX taken? 

 

Miss the "Cold Gold" though, while sharing my lambs chops with the Emus and Roos at Tidbinbilla.

Do you know who owns XXXX Gold?  Hint:  it's not an Australian company. 

 

Do you like Kirin?