Swiss man paws for thought after dog bites on Thai beach (video)

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, kwilco said:

No - you are completely wrong

 

No - you are.... 

 

+1 if you are agree...    not that agreement matters, its just a discussion and any extra form of agreement doesn't make an issue right or wrong... 

 

Nevertheless - this wanna-be-expert brings is library textbook theory into these discussion, and like any wannabe civil servant fails to accomodate reality....   in this case the reality of society and how such issues can be handled effectively in Thailand with local knowledge and preexisting local networks of vermin control. 

 

He has his fingers dancing on the keyboard of attempted logic... but is let down by his mind two stepping a tango onto the toes of broken text-book theory...   

[richard_smith237]

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Capture: Stray dogs are humanely captured using traps or other methods.  

Who pays - traps, control of aggressive dogs, capture, transport... 

Solo kennels... alone, because they'll fight other males and mate with females. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Neuter/spay: Dogs are sterilized to prevent future reproduction.

A nice idea, but Who pays ?...   The dog foundation ? - how long will that last ?

 

What is the cost to spay a dog? 

 

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Vaccinate: Dogs are vaccinated against rabies and other diseases.

 

Again, a nice idea, but who pays ? The d og foundation ? - how long will that last ?

 

What is the cost to vaccinate a dog ?

 

 

13 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Return: Vaccinated and sterilized dogs are returned to their original location.

 

Return where ? - how will people know their original location ?

Thats a lof of faith on 'record keeping'... 

 

And what happens when they can return ? if the return to the right area and don't even up fighting to regain territory and get more violent  ?

 

Who feeds them ????....   butting the ownus back on society to feed the strays ?

 

What when one of these strays bites a child's face ???  who is accountable then? the dog foundation for altering the dogs hormones and then placing a stray untrained dog back on the street where is it once again starving, fighting for food and in competition will all the others in the same situation >?

 

 

....  but its ok... we only have to wait for them to die 'cos they can't procreate - the next 10 years don't matter.

 

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

A bite like that could kill a small child. The owner must be well known so why has he/she not been arrested?

[RoyBattyy93]

5 hours ago, IslandLover said:

like the USA and breeding them clandestinely.

What could possibly go wrong ?

 

 

Backyard Breeder Mauled to Death by His Own Dogs

13 pit bulls euthanized, including 8 puppies

...https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pit-bull-breeder-mauled-to-death-by-his-own-dogs-in-compton-california/ar-BB1ioSg4

[geisha]

On 8/19/2024 at 2:32 PM, steven100 said:

why don't they do anything about these pests ?  lazy? money?  no law?  no higher request?  why ?

Same as electricity pilonnes leaning dangerously, crossings no cars stop for, broken pavements, open drains, polluted sea water, often no garbage collection, fly tipping eyesores, storms drains used by  food carts  to pour their boiling oil into, 

air pollution, soi dogs,,, the people don’t give a damn, no one cares , why ? Sheer stupidly , laziness, egoistic, lack of education , I could go on and on.

[steven100]

1 hour ago, geisha said:

Same as electricity pilonnes leaning dangerously, crossings no cars stop for, broken pavements, open drains, polluted sea water, often no garbage collection, fly tipping eyesores, storms drains used by  food carts  to pour their boiling oil into, 

air pollution, soi dogs,,, the people don’t give a damn, no one cares , why ? Sheer stupidly , laziness, egoistic, lack of education , I could go on and on.

I agree totally ... they don't care, uneducated ... etc .. etc ..

[Bday Prang]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

no conuntry has ever had a successful dog cull

            Well its about time this country gave it a try,      You appear to know as little about this subject as you do about road safety.  

culling if done properly is the only solution.   Releasing them back onto the streets  along with restricting food supply is  madness,  How does a pack of starving dogs normally behave,  a baby could easily become a victim , ripped to shreds in minutes              They don't just need vaccinating once , some vaccines are required annually.  its not just rabies either, there are plenty of other diseases and parasites  to be dealt with. some of the nastier ones can be passed on to humans following contact with the dogs or their excrement. 

            I'm sure there are many schemes to deal with this plague that look good on paper , but  remember where you are,  none of them will be happening here anytime soon mainly due to a lack of interest and the costs involved, 

             

[spidermike007]

8 hours ago, Fortean1 said:

It seems the Thais have a belief that dogs could be reincarnated aunts and uncles.  That seems an awkward and backward way of thinking.  My nephew let a dog they brought from the countryside to Lat Phrao in Bangkok to roam freely at night.  The dog bit a boy and my nephew had to pay the medical bill.  Soon after the dog was poisoned.  I told him that in America he would be charged.  He couldn't get it through his head.  He now has a Doctorate and still thinks that way.  Our family taxi guy showed me on his phone 15 or 16 dogs he cares for.  He thinks he is doing the right thing.  These are let out of the yard often.  My nephew was aghast when I pointed to a puppy in the home village that I said should be put down.  It was partly or fully blind, could not walk much at all, had mange, and was not living a good life.  It is a cultural thing.

Surprising, since Thais have adapted a brand of Buddhism which incorporates several aspects of Hinduism. The Hindu sages taught that is transcarnation is very rare. People rarely reincarnate as animals, according to Hindu scripture. Very odd, regardless. 

 

Wild and uncontrollable dogs need to be out down. End of story. 

[Liverpool Lou]

13 hours ago, paulikens said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

They don't, really?...

"A Thai man, 74 year old Champ Manatae, revealed to the media that his home and restaurant were near the beach. He stated that the dogs had bitten both Thai and foreign people.

 

Another Thai national, 51 year old Sunan Chartchai, disclosed that locals and foreigners in the area previously participated in a beach-cleaning activity a few years ago. However, they no longer dared to engage in any beach activities due to the presence of the dogs.

 

Business operators who run accommodation and restaurants along the beach also voiced their concerns, fearing that they might soon lose customers if the dogs continued to wander freely and bite people.

Expand  

But it took a foreigner to complain for them to speak up, thus proving my point. 

No, your point was that "Thais never complain because they don't like  confrontation", so your point was not proven!

[Thumbs]

Tv needs to become involved before local and provincial government step up and tackle the problem, make them look bad on the tv and things tend to get resolved very quickly. Thailand introduced the animal cruelty laws to prevent people taking revenge on dangerous dogs and those making peoples lives miserable due to noise, destructive behavior and traffic accidents. What they didn’t do is come up with government guidelines to fix the problems. Report the incident  and if someone else gets bit a legal claim against the government for dereliction of duty and endangerment 

[sambum]

17 hours ago, IslandLover said:

 

Except the latest breed to be banned in the UK is the XL Bully, a derivative of the Pit Bull.  Pit Bulls were banned years ago.  Not that it stops morons importing them from places like the USA and breeding them clandestinely.

 

"Except the latest breed to be banned in the UK is the XL Bully" (Doesn't the name say it all?!!!)

 

Quite right too! Unpredictable killing machines - a bit like certain types of illegal immigrants!

 

And why can Customs not stop the importing of these banned species if they are illegal? And give the suppliers and buyers/morons hefty fines, or prison sentences for repeat offences?

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Thumbs said:

Tv needs to become involved before local and provincial government step up and tackle the problem, make them look bad on the tv and things tend to get resolved very quickly. Thailand introduced the animal cruelty laws to prevent people taking revenge on dangerous dogs and those making peoples lives miserable due to noise, destructive behavior and traffic accidents. What they didn’t do is come up with government guidelines to fix the problems. Report the incident  and if someone else gets bit a legal claim against the government for dereliction of duty and endangerment 

 

".....a legal claim against the government for dereliction of duty and endangerment"

 

And good luck with that!!!! 

[neverere]

14 hours ago, Bday Prang said:

I'll take your word for it,  but if that is the actual wording (assuming nothing was lost in translation)  of this seldom enforced law  I see no legal issues with a nationwide cull.  It can be done "humanely" so unnecessary suffering  need not happen

I think the issue with a nationwide cull, as necessary as it may be, and no matter how humane it is done, would be purely a cultural one. Buddhists generally don't believe in killing animals. Ironic, seeing how badly how many animals are treated here, I know. A mass spaying/neutering program would be far more acceptable. I wish the new government would makes funds available for such a program on a mass scale, rather the limited programmes we have seen in the past.

[MrPhysio]

16 hours ago, kwilco said:

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling.

CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return)

Thailand has had intermittent attempts, but not for a while. Bangkok was the main focus. 

[MrPhysio]

17 hours ago, MrPhysio said:

If there is a pack of dogs, definitely more than three and maybe as low as two - and you hurt one of them, the others come for you. If you go down or even if you run, things get very bad for you. I had a nasty dog experience where the pack leader began barking and growling (in a park area near Big Buddha Pattaya, and dogs appeared from everywhere. I am fairly certain there were more than 50, all barking and growling. I was alone. Eventually, they lost interest and went back into the undergrowth, except for the pack leader, who kept following me and growling. I quickly looked for an escape route that would not confront the dog, and it immediately bit my calf. the canine deeply punctured, and the other teeth cut my skin, causing bleeding through my clothing. 5 expensive rabies injections, immunoglobulin, and wound dressings followed. I am a pensioner, so expensive.

 

I wrote on the forums, and all I got was a tirade of dog lovers hating bitten humans. I am sure that if the Thais licensed a non-Buddhist per problem area to clean up the problem once a month with a quick bullet, the cost would not be high, like the failed programs to neuter the animals. A designated disposal arrangement could be organized. Or use the tourist police to supervise. There are enough ex-military here who know gun safety.

 

The people bitten did not cause the problem, so they should not be penalized. Poisoning is generally a very cruel death, so Thais may be more accepting. By the way, any market has chopped up chicken, beef, and pork, and some places have alligators and field rats, none of which died from old age. Therefore, the Buddhist argument does not seem to be sustainable.

Every couple of days, I see a pack of dogs chasing both Thai and tourists off a walking pavement into traffic. Up to a dozen 'pets' terrorize people walking. A local vendor feeds them in a bus parking area near Cozy Beach.

 

Additional: If the dogs are released after sterilization and health check - how does anyone know if the dogs are biters? And what stops the dogs contracting rabies or other diseases after being picked up the first time? 

The dogs need to be removed and not returned.

The story goes that Thais cannot afford the health care for their pets, and turn them loose if the animal is unwell, then get a new one. Or if they move areas, the dogs are left (cats as well).

 

Wherever the dogs are, their excrement washes down into the sea, polluting beaches, and the sand is filthy and possibly contains mites and fleas. 

 

Food dumped all over the place attracts vermin, and then the plastic and foam containers make the place look bad - (difficult enough looking at some of the tourists who could be advertising for Funeral Homes and what happens if you do not look after yourself.

Therefore, any policy must ensure animals are registered and chipped for identification, fines are levied / enforced against owners with roaming and off leash animals. That includes for foreign owners breaking common sense pet ownership requirements.

[geisha]

20 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Surprising, since Thais have adapted a brand of Buddhism which incorporates several aspects of Hinduism. The Hindu sages taught that is transcarnation is very rare. People rarely reincarnate as animals, according to Hindu scripture. Very odd, regardless. 

 

Wild and uncontrollable dogs need to be out down. End of story. 

When I lived in Phuket , Kata Beach, I used the little bridge in between 2 big hotels ( one 5*,the other  4*. ) it was also a water run off from the hills behind. There were rats underneath, one day a little foreign boy said there were many rats on the bridge.i went to have a look, and there was an open bin bag and rats everywhere. I spoke to the beach owner / concession whom I knew and suggested he buy rat poison fast. He looked at me shocked and said he could not. In those days they were quite devout Buddhists or so I supposed.,

[paulikens]

19 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

No, your point was that "Thais never complain because they don't like  confrontation", so your point was not proven!

The foreigner was the one who complained and then the press asked some of the thais around that area to comment.  If the foreigner hadn't complained they would have never said anything.  And anyway I didn't mean literally they never complain but the majority of the time Thais don't complain.  And if you think Thais do complain then you don't know Thais

[IslandLover]

On 8/20/2024 at 9:59 PM, RoyBattyy93 said:

What could possibly go wrong ?

 

 

Backyard Breeder Mauled to Death by His Own Dogs

13 pit bulls euthanized, including 8 puppies

...https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/pit-bull-breeder-mauled-to-death-by-his-own-dogs-in-compton-california/ar-BB1ioSg4

 

And the latest case in the UK where a man was mauled to death by an XL Bully that he was taking care of for a friend.  The police shot it dead.  XL Bullys have been banned in the UK since February this year, the only exceptions being registered dogs who have been spayed/neutered and have to wear a muzzle in public.  I'm guessing this one was none of those things.

[IslandLover]

On 8/20/2024 at 6:54 PM, kwilco said:

The Netherlands is the first country in the world without stray dogs, and has achieved this through a combination of programs and initiatives: without culling.

CNVR (Collect, Neuter, Vaccinate, and Return)

 

Yes, that's what I meant actually.  They don't routinely cull stray dogs here in the Netherlands but as there aren't any stray dogs roaming the streets, whatever they are doing is working.  We do have animal shelters of course and I presume this is where the stray dogs end up after they have been neutered and vaccinated.  If people want a dog they are encouraged to get one from a shelter rather than a dog breeder.  Nevertheless most of the dogs I see in my neighbourhood are pedigrees.

[realfunster]

An age old problem unfortunately. We had issues in our area many years ago as one resident managed to acquire 10+ dogs over a period of time, several times a day he opened his house gate to let them roam around the streets. Thankfully, no-one was ever bitten but it was intimidating for all, especially kids.

 

Someone took the initiative, gathered > 10+ complainants and contacted the council. They visited a few times and posted some warning notices on his gate but nothing changed for several months.

 

That is until someone took it upon themselves to poison half his dogs...

[proton]

Shooting any dog off a lead anywhere would soon get these doggie worshippers in line and their mutts should be muzzled in public, dogs are not your friend,

[proton]

11 minutes ago, realfunster said:

An age old problem unfortunately. We had issues in our area many years ago as one resident managed to acquire 10+ dogs over a period of time, several times a day he opened his house gate to let them roam around the streets. Thankfully, no-one was ever bitten but it was intimidating for all, especially kids.

 

Someone took the initiative, gathered > 10+ complainants and contacted the council. They visited a few times and posted some warning notices on his gate but nothing changed for several months.

 

That is until someone took it upon themselves to poison half his dogs...

 

SIL on a nice Sansiri estate had a nutter move into the next soi with over 30 dogs, the racket made some move out. They got him to get the number down, but still far too many, I thought the legal number was 5.

[realfunster]

Just now, proton said:

 

SIL on a nice Sansiri estate had a nutter move into the next soi with over 30 dogs, the racket made some move out. They got him to get the number down, but still far too many, I thought the legal number was 5.

I'm not sure on any max number, 30 seems insane though !

 

Bit surprised in a "proper" estate like Sansiri there was no legal recourse available, I live on a normal street, so no development bye laws/committee or similar.  

 

Another house nearby has since gone OTT on dogs (they were burgled) but at least they keep them inside their property, so no-one is too bothered about the occasional barking. In fact, people might even appreciate their guarding skills as we don't have any security guards. 

[Kinok Farang]

Let the  dog molesting Brit out of the Aussie jail and invite him over here.He'll soon sort em out.

[WoodyKenny]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:16 PM, Tropicalevo said:

 

NAILED IT!

[Patong2021]

On 8/19/2024 at 7:11 PM, SomNaNa555 said:

There are over one million dog bites in Thailand each year. It's totally out of control and the stray dogs need to be reduced in number. Indonesia had a similar problem and an outbreak of rabies. The government launched a program to exterminate stray dogs. It worked. In the meantime, carry a walking stick or pepper spray at all times. 

Source please.

[3NUMBAS]

Feed them some really loud firework bangers ,that always works and they move to the other side of town in fear for their life,someone else’s problem 

[Middle Aged Grouch]

No point to go to the beach in Hua Hin and step on horse poo all over or to get bitten by a dog or at best get stung by the jellyfish.

[GroveHillWanderer]

On 8/21/2024 at 12:46 AM, Bday Prang said:

Of course culling works if its carried out properly, its used to control the populations of many different species,  however its not a one  hit solution and should be thought of as a continuous "work in progress" 

What happens in the UK is absolutely a cull.   It has just been cleverly disguised so as not to upset the usual objectors

The releasing of  stray dogs back out onto the streets under any circumstances has got to be one of  the stupidest things I have ever heard in my life

 

Study after study done into the efficacy of culling for controlling dog (or cat) populations has found it to be ineffective. Below are just a couple of examples.

 

Why not cull?

 

Quote

That dog and cat populations replenish their numbers quickly following culls surprises some authorities, who expect their culling efforts to lead to longer lasting impacts. But even in the absence of culling, these populations are often already experiencing high natural mortality and compensatory birth rates, leading to a high turnover of populations (Morters et al 2014); hence, for many populations, culling adds relatively little additional mortality. Evolution has selected for behaviours and mechanisms that support animals to compensate for peaks in mortality, usually caused by disease or predation but here caused by culling.

 

Quote

However, culling has rarely achieved elimination, and these examples are limited to small islands. In all other contexts, even at the highest rates of culling, only reduction is achieved. The remaining animals have greater access to resources, and their breeding success and ability to expand or move territory increases. As a result, populations rebound to pre-culling levels (Yoak et al 2023).

 

[NanLaew]

On 8/20/2024 at 7:15 AM, Chassa said:

Thai's used to eat dogs when I came here in the 1980's - what happened!

 

You "happened" to be in Vietnam?