Its Happening - Law to Tax Overseas Income Now in Progress

[Lorry]

16 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Great.

 

When the bar girl files her Thai tax return, she can indicate she received big money as a gift.

 

Oh, wait. She never filed, despite TRD allegedly having access to all overseas remittances.

 

Unless you are aware of bar girls filing taxes.

 

Editorial note: for some reason we get a lot of comments in the Thai tax topics that are disconnected from the real world, particularly about TRD auditing capabilities.

 

Thailand can't enforce helmet laws for motorcycles, let alone complicated tax laws.

 

You keep willfully confusing 2 things:

What a government can do - what it is interesting in doing. 

Thailand doesn't tax bargirls, I don't know why.

About taxation of foreigners, Srettha said: we couldn't do it, because we didn't have the information.  Now, with CRS, yes, we can.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

For proof, provide a list of your investment-valuations / account-totals as of Dec 31, 2023.  Anything you bring in up to that limit, starting from Jan, 1 2024, until you have remitted all of that sum, is not taxable.

 

Edit: unless they start taxing income not remitted.

More confusion for me.

So if you had 500K USD in a retirement account on that date, you could then bring in up to 500K for the rest of your life Thai tax free?

Seperate from government pensions which are another thing.

[tomacht8]

5 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

Great.

 

All my remittances from the US to my Thai bank are credits, so I owe zero in taxes.

 

What's a credit?

No. I am talking about the foreigners who send money via banktransfer from abroad to  bargirls. To avoid that the girls had to pay taxes, it is helpfull to write on the bank transfers slip: Credit for ....

A credit is something you have to pay back, but it is not taxable income.

Edited September 8 by tomacht8

[tomacht8]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More confusion for me.

So if you had 500K USD in a retirement account on that date, you could then bring in up to 500K for the rest of your life Thai tax free?

Seperate from government pensions which are another thing.

Yes. Currently it is right. But you have to proof that the money you send was earned before. 1.1.2024. Problem is, that nobody know which documents somchai in his tax office in narkon nowhere accept. More save is to stay out from Thailand for  6 months plus x days. In this year you are then a non tax resident. In this year - as a non tax resident -  you can transfer tax-free your 500K US.

Edited September 8 by tomacht8

[Danderman123]

26 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

No. I am talking about the foreigners who send money via banktransfer from abroad to  bargirls. To avoid that the girls had to pay taxes, it is helpfull to write on the bank transfers slip: Credit for ....

A credit is something you have to pay back, but it is not taxable income.

You mean that a "credit" is a loan?

 

So when the bargirl files her taxes, she can claim all those transfers from her Farang boyfriend are loans, not income.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You mean that a "credit" is a loan?

 

So when the bargirl files her taxes, she can claim all those transfers from her Farang boyfriend are loans, not income.

Yes. But I never heard that a bargirl file a tax report. But if she get an order to come to her regional tax office, she can declare the money as loans aka credits from her boyfriend.

Edited September 8 by tomacht8

[Rob Browder]

28 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

More confusion for me.

So if you had 500K USD in a retirement account on that date, you could then bring in up to 500K for the rest of your life Thai tax free?

Seperate from government pensions which are another thing.

Yes, because it was proven-earned before Jan, 1 2024.  

Pensions / SSI - may be tax-free due to your DTA (it is from USA).

[Danderman123]

20 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes. Currently it is right. But you have to proof that the money you send was earned before. 1.1.2024. Problem is, that nobody know which documents somchai in his tax office in narkon nowhere accept. More save is to stay out from Thailand for  6 months plus x days. In this year you are then a non tax resident. In this year - as a non tax resident -  you can transfer tax-free your 500K US.

The point here is that if you find yourself at TRD in Nakhon Nowhere, you're dead anyway. They can't read your meticulously assembled documents, so it's a matter of the size of the bundle in the brown envelope.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

Yes. But I never heard that a bargirl file a tax report.

You are making my point for me.

 

Despite the available information, TRD doesn't track inbound remittances. As of today.

[tomacht8]

2 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

The point here is that if you find yourself at TRD in Nakhon Nowhere, you're dead anyway. They can't read your meticulously assembled documents, so it's a matter of the size of the bundle in the brown envelope.

Yes. Can happen. Or you must pay a professional tax advisor from Bangkok, who declare all this to somchai.

 

[Danderman123]

2 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

Yes, because it was proven-earned before Jan, 1 2024.  

Pensions / SSI - may be tax-free due to your DTA (it is from USA).

You're getting into the weeds here.

 

Unless you are one of the few who do file Thai tax returns, all of this is theoretical. Try "proving" your tax status to Somchai at TRD who can't read English. 

 

Maybe you speak Thai fluently and have been filing for years, but for the rest of us, having TRD examine our tax return would be problematic.

[Danderman123]

Just now, tomacht8 said:

Yes. Can happen. Or you must pay a professional tax advisor from Bangkok, who declare all this to somchai.

 

You are speaking theoretically.

 

Not too useful here. The more you post, the farther from reality you stray.

[Rob Browder]

1 minute ago, Danderman123 said:

The point here is that if you find yourself at TRD in Nakhon Nowhere, you're dead anyway. They can't read your meticulously assembled documents, so it's a matter of the size of the bundle in the brown envelope.

I do not think they will be making problems over a clear-case.  They can read numbers and use a calculator.  One only has to put this together once, for all savings pre-2024.

[tomacht8]

3 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You are making my point for me.

 

Despite the available information, TRD doesn't track inbound remittances. As of today.

That is not right. If the TRD has any suspicions, they can check your Thai bank accounts.

[Danderman123]

38 minutes ago, Lorry said:

 

Thailand doesn't tax bargirls, I don't know why.

 

As long as Thailand ignores million baht transfers to bargirls, they are going to ignore my 40,000 baht transfers.

 

 

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, Rob Browder said:

I do not think they will be making problems over a clear-case.  They can read numbers and use a calculator.  One only has to put this together once, for all savings pre-2024.

This is Thailand.

 

You seem to think you are back home.

[Danderman123]

1 minute ago, tomacht8 said:

That is not right. If the TRD has any suspicions, they can check your Thai bank accounts.

As they check bank accounts of bargirls who receive large remittances.

 

Oh, wait, they don't.

[Lorry]

11 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You mean that a "credit" is a loan?

 

So when the bargirl files her taxes, she can claim all those transfers from her Farang boyfriend are loans, not income.

Yes. The word is "loan".

[NoDisplayName]

5 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

Yes, because it was proven-earned before Jan, 1 2024.  

Pensions / SSI - may be tax-free due to your DTA (it is from USA).

 

You could have a print-off of your Schwab brokerage account year-end statement showing a balance of $500K dated 31 Dec 2023.

 

Would that be accepted as proof, assuming it won't require MFS legalization? 

 

That would be easy enough, if no accounting for unrealized capital gains is needed.  Then it's only a matter of keeping records of remittances over the next 20 years.

 

But that's for the current change to the (interpretation of) tax policy.  Taxation of global income would make prior 'savings' irrelevant. 

[tomacht8]

7 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

You are speaking theoretically.

 

Not too useful here. The more you post, the farther from reality you stray.

That is not theoretical. I paid my tax advisor, who teach in two Thai universities tax law, for input how I can do in my case avoid double tax paying. So my options in my case are clear. Good luck for everybody with this anyoing Thai tax stress.

 

[Lorry]

6 minutes ago, Danderman123 said:

As they check bank accounts of bargirls who receive large remittances.

 

Oh, wait, they don't.

Your horizon seems to be limited to bargirls.

That's only a small part of the vast informal sector of the Thai economy. 

To force all of this into the formal economy (with labor laws, social security,  taxes, licenses, governmental supervision and regulation) is a huge task. 

Small steps include the formalization of motorcycle taxis under Thaksin,  the government lottery,  the abolition of roadside vendors 8 (?) years ago. 

PromptPay was supposed to be a big step,  as all transactions can be seen by the TRD. Bargirls love it, because there are no transfer fees if you send money to the village. 

But if I were the  Thai government, bargirls wouldn't be my first priority. 

[TimBKK]

9 hours ago, gearbox said:

The information the Thais need will be served to them on a plate from your country as part of the CRS data exchange...as long as you admit in your country you are a Thai tax resident.

What do you mean by “as long as you admit in your country you are a Thai tax resident”?

[Danderman123]

14 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

That is not theoretical. I paid my tax advisor, who teach in two Thai universities tax law, for input how I can do in my case avoid double tax paying. So my options in my case are clear. Good luck for everybody with this anyoing Thai tax stress.

 

Again, you are one in a million, you don't work in Thailand, but you file a Thai tax return.

 

Most Farangs don't know anything about Thai taxes, so these topics are dominated by the tiny number of Farangs who do pay Thai taxes.

[NoDisplayName]

36 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

But that's for the current change to the (interpretation of) tax policy.  Taxation of global income would make prior 'savings' irrelevant. 

 

I don't expect brokerage statements to be of much use under global taxation.   It works under current year remittance as it gives a baseline on a specific start date to accept as 'savings' disregarding the capital gains that would be intermixed.

 

TRD trying to use account statements and buy/sell order receipts to calculate income is unfeasible.  If they go this route, a (certified?) copy of the home country tax return would be filed with the Thai tax return, with all income figures taken directly from that.

[rattlesnake]

Now let's watch them enforce it. This is definitely going to be in the top 10 most entertaining Thai political endeavours I have witnessed.

[sidneybear]

1 hour ago, TimBKK said:

What do you mean by “as long as you admit in your country you are a Thai tax resident”?

Under the CRS, banks ask customers where their tax residency is. If not resident locally, then the accounts of said customers become automatically reportable to the overseas tax authority where they reside.

[chiang mai]

5 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

The reverse is true:

 

You are describing these new tax proposals as both inevitable and sure to be enforced. That is scaremongering.

 

My position is that they will be enforced rarely and mostly for high profile cases. So everyone can take a chill pill.

Either you have a poor memory, are a very poor reader or you like to exaggerate. My guess at this stage is that you just say things without thinking whether they are true and correct or not.

 

Yes, I believe they are inevitable, I think I have said as much.

 

I have never said nor implied they will be enforced, you made that part up.

 

I'm happy however that you think everyone can chill and that it will be a crap shoot/lottery whether or not you get caught, that's just what retirees need in the twilight of advanced years!

 

 

[anchadian]

Revenue Department preparing legislation as new Expat tax regime may link visas and tax returns

 

Thailand’s Revenue Department drafts global tax legislation. It may link visa issuance to tax returns soon. Expats staying over 180 days must file by March 2025, impacting residency decisions. It also raises concerns about tax treaty interpretations and compliance.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/09/08/revenue-department-preparing-legislation-as-new-expat-tax-regime-may-link-visas-and-tax-returns/

[Big Bert]

1 hour ago, anchadian said:

Revenue Department preparing legislation as new Expat tax regime may link visas and tax returns

 

Thailand’s Revenue Department drafts global tax legislation. It may link visa issuance to tax returns soon. Expats staying over 180 days must file by March 2025, impacting residency decisions. It also raises concerns about tax treaty interpretations and compliance.

 

https://www.thaiexaminer.com/thai-news-foreigners/2024/09/08/revenue-department-preparing-legislation-as-new-expat-tax-regime-may-link-visas-and-tax-returns/

My UK tax year runs April to April and UK tax residence. Not paying here and how will they know?

[Owiee]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:49 PM, stoner said:

 

don't bother sending yourself money. take the few dollars hit at the ATM. if its only 2 months you wont need to visit the ATM more than a couple times. so 50 bucks to get them off your back sounds reasonable. 

Yes but unfortunately the exchange rates are very poor