Expat Taxation - Does anyone really know what's going on?

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, JimTripper said:

If things worked like clockwork you would be in Switzerland.

If things worked so corruptly, you would be in Thailand. 

[KhunHeineken]

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Apply again and tell them you need a TIN to file a return to request refund of withheld taxes on bank interest and stock dividends.

Rocket science, isn't it? 

 

Roll up and say  "I am a pensioner, but I need a TIN."  TRD staff say, "No need."  "Ok, bye." 

 

Then, come on this forum and post how you were told by one TRD staff member, at one TRD office, at one given time, that you don't need a TIN, and declare a TIN is not needed.   

Edited September 15 by KhunHeineken

[Chadnik]

12 hours ago, Celsius said:

Nothing.

 

They let people in on interlol wanted list and you think they will be able to tax you?

 

The easiest thing would be able to tax all the Chinese, Taiwanese, HK landlords renting out their real estate, but they can not even do that.

 

This is why it will be linked to visa extensions

[Chadnik]

7 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Apply again and tell them you need a TIN to file a return to request refund of withheld taxes on bank interest and stock dividends.

 

Obviously, it's early days. I've no doubt tax id will flow like wine when the proper channels open and bureaucrats told to stop making problems.

 

I madeva tax id for work a decade ago. It was in bkk but not central. Took an hour. Zero problems

[KhunHeineken]

6 hours ago, norbra said:

I am sure if my application spelled out "withholding tax"as purpose for request it would have been issued,my application was for personal income only

So, what will you post when others apply and are issued a TIN? 

 

Is the staff member they saw incorrect for issuing them a TIN, or the staff member you saw incorrect for not issuing you a TIN? 

 

TIT, but we will all get to see if a TIN is needed early next year. 

[AlexRich]

I don’t think anyone has a clue about the new tax rules, and that includes the Thai tax authority.

 

I think it is best to play the 180 day game until everything becomes clear. 
 

Even when the situation becomes clear I question whether the tax authority will be able to handle it administratively?
 

My fear is that they will apply double tax on everything, and ask for different documents to delay acknowledging your claim. My take - stay below 180 days and keep yourself out of it.

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I don’t think anyone has a clue about the new tax rules, and that includes the Thai tax authority.

 

I think it is best to play the 180 day game until everything becomes clear. 
 

Even when the situation becomes clear I question whether the tax authority will be able to handle it administratively?
 

My fear is that they will apply double tax on everything, and ask for different documents to delay acknowledging your claim. My take - stay below 180 days and keep yourself out of it.

The thing is, it's not the new tax rules, the tax rules are all fairly well established and there's very little about them that's new. I think many people understand the rules well, I also think a number of people refuse to try and understand them because they feel overwhelmed or aren't being given information in the basic format they are used to.

 

Stay out of Thailand for more than 180 days per year, if that makes you feel safer, for most that is not necessary at all.

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I don’t think anyone has a clue about the new tax rules, and that includes the Thai tax authority.

 

I think it is best to play the 180 day game until everything becomes clear. 
 

Even when the situation becomes clear I question whether the tax authority will be able to handle it administratively?
 

My fear is that they will apply double tax on everything, and ask for different documents to delay acknowledging your claim. My take - stay below 180 days and keep yourself out of it.

 

As things currently stand, it's a great big nothingburger for most.  The system still runs on self-determination of assessability of remittances, and there have been NO known instances of any TRD office denying a claim of "savings" or demanding proof.

 

Only ones that may be affected will be those remitting pension in the year earned, if not covered by a DTA.  That's unlikely to change next year, or the next.

 

Worldwide taxation would be a whole 'nother kettle of monkeys.

[KhunHeineken]

42 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I don’t think anyone has a clue about the new tax rules, and that includes the Thai tax authority.

 

I think it is best to play the 180 day game until everything becomes clear. 
 

Even when the situation becomes clear I question whether the tax authority will be able to handle it administratively?
 

My fear is that they will apply double tax on everything, and ask for different documents to delay acknowledging your claim. My take - stay below 180 days and keep yourself out of it.

I'm giving them a chance this first time around. 

 

If they tax me to the point I think they are ripping me off, It's Thailand for 179 days in 2025, and Vietnam for the other 6 months. 

[KhunHeineken]

35 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I also think a number of people refuse to try and understand them because they feel overwhelmed

No, they just don't want to accept the reality that they very well may have to pay tax. 

 

They just want to continue on with the same routine they have had for years, and anything out of that square box they shoot the messenger, and bury their head in the sand. 

 

37 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Stay out of Thailand for more than 180 days per year, if that makes you feel safer, for most that is not necessary at all.

Are you suggesting not 1 baht must be paid by "most" expats for "something" in relation to this policy? 

 

I have posted what that "something" may be, and it's not necessarily tax, or a bribe, but tax is possible. 

 

Why would the Thai's be handing out free passes to falang, any falang?   

[KhunHeineken]

37 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Only ones that may be affected will be those remitting pension in the year earned, if not covered by a DTA. 

Geez, and home many of them do you think there are????

 

37 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Worldwide taxation would be a whole 'nother kettle of monkeys.

Ohhhh, yeahhhh, and it's on it's way, and not just in Thailand.  It's going global. 

[NoDisplayName]

3 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Geez, and home many of them do you think there are????

 

Ohhhh, yeahhhh, and it's on it's way, and not just in Thailand.  It's going global. 

 

How many?  Dunno.  Quite a few, if not most, should be covered by DTA's, or fall below the tax threshold, or at the very least be able to show 'savings' from before Jan 2024.

 

We'll have to see how it turns out. 

 

As to worldwide taxation........I'll be <180 or leave entirely.  No way I'm going to pay Uncle Samchai $10,000 for the privilege of, well, not much.

[advancebooking]

I will ignore the new rules. The rev dept cant even tax their own citizens... hopeless govt dept. 

[motdaeng]

6 hours ago, advancebooking said:

I will ignore the new rules. The rev dept cant even tax their own citizens... hopeless govt dept. 

 

good luck with that ...

[Everyman]

About 10 years ago there was supposed to be an agreement to allow any citizens of any ASEAN country to work in any other ASEAN country. There were big meetings about it between the respective countries, School curriculums were focused on it. “Preparing for ASEAN.” 

 

What happened in the end? Nothing at all. 

 

Which is exactly what will happen with this tax thing. In two years a few people will still be waiting for “an announcement in November” or whatever and supposed experts will still be peddling bull<deleted> and speculation but in the end nothing will happen. Eventually everyone will forget about it and move on to the next thing. 

[KimchiCurry]

10 hours ago, Everyman said:

About 10 years ago there was supposed to be an agreement to allow any citizens of any ASEAN country to work in any other ASEAN country. There were big meetings about it between the respective countries, School curriculums were focused on it. “Preparing for ASEAN.” 

 

What happened in the end? Nothing at all. 

 

Which is exactly what will happen with this tax thing. In two years a few people will still be waiting for “an announcement in November” or whatever and supposed experts will still be peddling bull<deleted> and speculation but in the end nothing will happen. Eventually everyone will forget about it and move on to the next thing. 

 

They did announce an implementation of a THB 300 tourism fee for international tourist arriving by air. Scraped ?

They did announce a route the TOUR DE FRANCE (cyclism), where is it ? 

They also announce Formula 1 in Bangkok ? no more ?

 

No one actually knows what the hell they do. Between announcement, implementation and enforcement.

[Everyman]

35 minutes ago, KimchiCurry said:

 

They did announce an implementation of a THB 300 tourism fee for international tourist arriving by air. Scraped ?

They did announce a route the TOUR DE FRANCE (cyclism), where is it ? 

They also announce Formula 1 in Bangkok ? no more ?

 

No one actually knows what the hell they do. Between announcement, implementation and enforcement.

 

Ah, the tourism fee. The airlines balked because they were expected to collect it and they didn’t want the expense of reworking their book systems just to accommodate Thailand. 

[Celsius]

On 9/15/2024 at 9:56 PM, KhunHeineken said:

 

Why would the Thai's be handing out free passes to falang, any falang?   

 

Are you suggesting they will be giving free passes to Arabs, Indians and Chinese?

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/16/2024 at 3:02 PM, Celsius said:

 

Are you suggesting they will be giving free passes to Arabs, Indians and Chinese?

No free passes to any foreigners. 

 

The whole "Thailand is for Thai's" and "We want your money here, but not you here" ideology.

Edited September 18 by KhunHeineken

[KhunHeineken]

On 9/15/2024 at 3:05 PM, NoDisplayName said:

As to worldwide taxation........I'll be <180 or leave entirely. 

Where can you hide from world wide taxation?  They keep casting a bigger and tighter net. 

 

On 9/15/2024 at 3:05 PM, NoDisplayName said:

Quite a few, if not most, should be covered by DTA's, or fall below the tax threshold,

I can only speak for the Australian DTA, and there is no exemption for the aged pension in it. 

 

I have posted Article 18 and Article 19 that sets this out, as well as a youtube clip with comments from an Australian Chartered Accountant.  

 

The Australian pension is over the threshold.  In the Australia Forum it's been discussed an Aussie pensioner will have around a 20,000 baht tax liability.  

 

Whilst 20,000 baht isn't a lot, a little out of a little can be a lot for some pensioners. 

 

On 9/15/2024 at 3:05 PM, NoDisplayName said:

No way I'm going to pay Uncle Samchai $10,000 for the privilege of, well, not much.

What will you get for paying the tax, nothing, more than you get now, which is ZERO. 

[4MyEgo]

On 9/15/2024 at 2:56 PM, norbra said:

Step 1.My Australian aged pension is assessable income ,verified by Australian Tax Office.

 

Step 2, visit BKK revenue department to apply for a TIN.

My application was rejected as I didn't meet required criteria :

"Having income from employment in Thailand"

My experience for what it's worth

There are many levels of criteria for TIN applications

 

I have been trying to tell Mr Know All, F All, that is, but he just doesn't get it.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 3:39 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Apply again next week and you will probably get one.  TIT.   

 

Won't accept the facts.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 3:46 PM, norbra said:

Maybe you would be interested to learn that criteria also excludes students and holders of  "retirement visas"as they are prohibited from working in Thailand 

 

There you go, it's all about those residents who work in Thailand.

 

On 9/15/2024 at 3:55 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Sure, but money in a Thai bank, earning interest, could meet the criteria of being an "investor."  So, whilst prohibited from working, the hold of a retirement visa is still earning money in Thailand, no matter how big, or how small. 

 

Like I said, go to a different office, at a different time, with a different member of staff, and you may get a different result. 

 

You are deflecting again, fully aware that banks tax the interest you earn.

 

Fact of the matter is a lot of member in the same boat as norba have gone to the the revenue department in their respective areas and have been told the same, don't work in Thailand, no TIN.

 

If and when they pass the worldwide income, then things might be different, that's a HUGE if.

 

You should really go back to scaremongering members about all the new DTA's that are being made.....LOL

 

Perhaps we should change you from Mr Know All, to Mr Know Idea 🙂

 

[4MyEgo]

On 9/15/2024 at 11:20 AM, wozzlegummich said:

Why won't any of the "EXPERTS" on YouTube, Forums and Social Media tell us expat Farangs what's going on with bringing our pensions or superannuation into Thailand from a country with a reciprocal tax arrangement?

 

You really should ask KhunHeineken here on the forum 🙂

 

[KhunHeineken]

11 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Won't accept the facts.

The facts are TIT.

 

Apply again, at a different office, with a different staff member, at a different time, and you probably will be issued a TIN.

 

So who is right and who is wrong?  The office that didn't issue the TIN, or the office that did issue the TIN?

 

This is typical of your posting style.  You read ONE post from ONE member and declare it as FACT and nationwide all across Thailand.  

 

14 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

but he just doesn't get it.

You don't get it because you don't want to consider it because it's disrupts your financial affairs.  Get used to it.  The tax net is being cast wder and tigher across the world. 

 

14 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

There you go, it's all about those residents who work in Thailand.

 

What about "interest" earned from bank accounts?  They are investments, are they not?  We all earn some interest here, no matter how big or small. 

 

Add renting out a property as well. 

 

Is any of this "work" in Thailand?"  No, but income is being generated in Thailand, is it not?  

 

18 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Fact of the matter is a lot of member in the same boat as norba have gone to the the revenue department in their respective areas and have been told the same, don't work in Thailand, no TIN.

Sure, go in December and the result may be different. 

 

Go after the 1st January 2025 at extension time and the result may be different.  TIT. 

 

It's too early to declare a TIN is not needed, and let's just say it is not needed at this point, what guarantee can you give a TIN will not be needed in the near future.  Go on the record.  We know the answer, it's ZERO guarantee. 

 

They change like the wind here, but you live in the moment. 

 

You really need to be more dynamic in your thinking in relation to Thai governance. 

 

Jeez, for all we know, there could be another coup next week. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

If and when they pass the worldwide income, then things might be different, that's a HUGE if.

 

Why is it "HUGE?"  Many countries are getting onboard.  Once again, more wishful thinking from you overriding the reality.

 

21 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

You should really go back to scaremongering members about all the new DTA's that are being made.

Do you deny Australia is updating and expanding its DTA?  I posted the link for you, more than once.  Go on the record.  Are they, or not?  

 

As for my username, I think "Ego" in your username is quite humorous.  This tax seems to be a blow to your financial "Ego" thus, you are constantly looking for why and how it can not happen, even while it's actually happening. 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

31 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

You really should ask KhunHeineken here on the forum 🙂

 

if the member is Australian, he can watch the youtube video I have posted with some input from a Chartered Accountant in Australia. 

 

It's the youtube video that deals with Article 18 and Article 19 in the Australia / Thailand DTA. 

 

It's the youtube video that disagreed with your "Forget about Article 19" post in the Australia Forum, yet, you change forums, and post under Article 19 you have to pay tax on this forum. 

 

If the member watches the youtube video, they will see you can not "Forget about Article 19." 

[Lacessit]

IMO the principle to follow is - never give a government department any more information than one has to.

 

I won't be getting a tax number until Immigration tells me I have to have one.

 

I won't be submitting a tax return in Thailand until the TRD tells me I have to.

 

When I do submit a tax return, it will have zero income, because I will be transferring pre-2024 savings for the next 5-6 years. Plus any tax-free allowances, just to do their heads in.

 

If the Thai government wants to waste its time chasing me, bring it on.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Where can you hide from world wide taxation?  They keep casting a bigger and tighter net. 

 

i could always go back to the US, to one of the states with no personal income tax, if necessary.  Texas is affordable.

 

Otherwise, two countries <180, plus a week or two of vacation.  The Thailand house is paid for.  Two years of Thai global tax would cover the purchase of a nice condo in Cambodia.

 

But that's if they get worldwide taxation passed.  I've got enough pre-2024 savings to remit and live on for at least half a century - with records to prove it.

 

Looking forward to the audit in 2073 and getting to prove I only remitted unassessable savings.

[proton]

Thaksin has never been foreigner friendly, has he ever done anything to make expat lives easier?

Edited September 18 by proton

[chiang mai]

On 9/15/2024 at 10:11 PM, advancebooking said:

I will ignore the new rules. The rev dept cant even tax their own citizens... hopeless govt dept. 

Well, they can, it's just that they don't earn enough to be taxed.

[advancebooking]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Well, they can, it's just that they don't earn enough to be taxed.

B.S     We have highly qualified thais working for us earning big money. We know they dont do tax returns

[KhunHeineken]

3 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

i could always go back to the US, to one of the states with no personal income tax, if necessary.  Texas is affordable.

 

Otherwise, two countries <180, plus a week or two of vacation.  The Thailand house is paid for.  Two years of Thai global tax would cover the purchase of a nice condo in Cambodia.

 

But that's if they get worldwide taxation passed.  I've got enough pre-2024 savings to remit and live on for at least half a century - with records to prove it.

 

Looking forward to the audit in 2073 and getting to prove I only remitted unassessable savings.

I have a similar plan.

 

It's 179 days in Thailand, about a week for the Singapore F1, the rest in Vietnam. 

 

However, the days of becoming a tax resident of no where are coming to an end. 

 

The source countries are all getting on board with it. 

 

Quoting all the BS Thai laws in all these threads like "gifting" and "savings" and "assessable income" and "inheritance" blah blah blah etc etc etc - they are not going to give a sh*it about it here because of a few reasons. 

 

1)  They don't care. 

 

2) They want the money. 

 

3)  They haven't got the resources to check everyone's documents.

 

4)  They hold all the power. 

 

5)  You have no right to live here, so pay or no visa.

 

The list goes on, but basically, you will pay what they tell you to pay, or leave for 6 months of the year. 

 

Easy for me, and sounds easy for you, but maybe not so easy for many. 

 

What MAY become interesting is how Thai tax authorities deal with an arrears tax debt. 

 

I remember some time ago posting western options that were available to Thailand, and  the post being deleted for scaremongering.  However, a tax policy without enforcement and punishment is no tax policy at all, so they must have something up their sleeve.  I'm guessing it's just deportation and blacklisting, not gaol. 

 

Since when have you known Thai governments to be sympathetic to foreigners living in Thailand? 

 

Let's all hope it's a laughable 1000 baht "fee" we have to pay for a document come extension time.