I Love Donald Trump

[marin]

1 minute ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Were you not listening/reading - less than 35% of Americans trust the MSM. IMO WAPO is one of the least trusted - closely followed by CNN and ABC.

Trumpian stats.

 

Fox lets see. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

8 minutes ago, marin said:

Trumpian stats.

 

Fox lets see. 

 

CNN settles lawsuit with Nick Sandmann stemming from viral video controversy

The settlement will allow CNN to avoid a lengthy and potentially unpredictable trial. Sandmann sought $275 million in damages in the lawsuit he filed against CNN last March.

CNN settles lawsuit with Nick Sandmann stemming from viral video controversy | CNN Business

 

Many many more mate - they all lie - you obviously cannot listen - and where is your link????

[metisdead]

A post with unattributed content that was copy and pasted from some site without providing a link to the source of information has been removed:

• Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to a mainstream media source.

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

You want more of this?
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
Or this?
Trump's economic plans will add 5.6 trillion to the debt.

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

Trump = fraud (filling his pockets) and a narcissist:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-organization-charged-secret-service-much-1185-night-stay-trump-d-rcna52521

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

Trump = fraud (filling his pockets) and a narcissist:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-organization-charged-secret-service-much-1185-night-stay-trump-d-rcna52521

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

Trump = fraud (filling his pockets) and a narcissist:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-organization-charged-secret-service-much-1185-night-stay-trump-d-rcna52521

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

Trump can be all that in your eyes, but he will fail in everything/almost everything. In 2016 he promised to solve the Middle-East problems: he failed (he made it worse, by recognizing Jerusalem as capital). He promised to open coal mines, he failed. His China trade war, costed 300,000 jobs and 128 billion.
He is just a narcissist braggart!
He said he will leave Nato. He won't.
But he want got give Ukraine to Russia: because Russia got compromising sex videos of Trump. So, the no 1 enemy of USA got Trump in his pocket: Donald Trump's 'prostitute scandal' was filmed by cameras and recorded with microphones hidden behind the walls - World News - Mirror Online
He promised to lower the US debt: he failed already before Covid started

[shdmn]

17 hours ago, Berkshire said:

That seems like a lot of work to just spew nonsensical crap*la....5555

Do yourself a favor and add that account to your ignore list.  I just wish the ignore feature also ignored the quotes.

Edited Friday at 09:14 PM by shdmn

[Skeptic7]

"I Love Donald Trump" 

 

I Loathe Donald Trump 

[Danderman123]

19 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Clinton went into the election up by 12% in the polls.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/10/23/politics/hillary-clinton-donald-trump-presidential-polls/index.html

 

 

You are citing one poll from October 23 2016.

 

Presumably the Russian bot who sent you the link told you that the link was for multiple polls, as I am sure you wouldn't lie about it.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_2016_United_States_presidential_election

 

These are the final polls for the 2016 election. Most showed Clinton ahead by 3 or 4 points, which was close to the final results.

 

Note that Kamala Harris is now up by 4 or 5 points in most polls.

 

I am trying to prepare you emotionally for the inevitable Trump loss. You will thank me later.

[Danderman123]

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/844292-donald-trump-kamala-harris-diddy-freak-offs-political-news

 

Trump and Diddy. Who will spend more time in jail?

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 hours ago, Steven55 said:

You want more of this?
https://time.com/5888024/50-trillion-income-inequality-america/
Or this?
Trump's economic plans will add 5.6 trillion to the debt.

MSM and Dems BS - Yes I want another 4 years !!

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 hours ago, Steven55 said:

Trump = fraud (filling his pockets) and a narcissist:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-organization-charged-secret-service-much-1185-night-stay-trump-d-rcna52521

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

Funny - I dont remember you posting links about Biden's senility Or Obama's narcissism.

 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

14 hours ago, Steven55 said:

Trump = fraud (filling his pockets) and a narcissist:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-organization-charged-secret-service-much-1185-night-stay-trump-d-rcna52521

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-human-beast/201608/does-trump-suffer-narcissistic-personality-disorder

I heard you the first time - no need to say it 3 times.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

7 hours ago, shdmn said:

Do yourself a favor and add that account to your ignore list.  I just wish the ignore feature also ignored the quotes.

OK - done - you will be ignored from now on.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

I am trying to prepare you emotionally for the inevitable Trump loss. You will thank me later.

What is the bet ??  I am still waiting.

Are you all talk and no action - like your Avatar.

Back up all your BS - bet something on the result.

Edited yesterday at 04:20 AM by TroubleandGrumpy

[TroubleandGrumpy]

3 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/844292-donald-trump-kamala-harris-diddy-freak-offs-political-news

 

Trump and Diddy. Who will spend more time in jail?

 

They make a great pair - two of the best I have seen - all class.

 

[shdmn]

9 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

They make a great pair - two of the best I have seen - all class.

 

Also these two.

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by shdmn

[shdmn]

13 hours ago, Danderman123 said:

https://www.hotnewhiphop.com/844292-donald-trump-kamala-harris-diddy-freak-offs-political-news

 

Trump and Diddy. Who will spend more time in jail?

 

I am seeing a pattern here .  Here is another one that is the convicted felon fraudster's kinda guy.

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by shdmn

[Danderman123]

On 9/20/2024 at 5:54 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

He denies making those remarks - lets see how it goes going forward.

It could be like what Trump said about Charlottesville - or it could be bad if it was true.

 

Yes - a Trump political weakness is his inability to sometimes just shut up.

Ann Coulter has called him out several times about it.

But the truth is he is blunt and direct - not a smooth lying politician/diplomat. 

You will know if the reports are true: Trump is campaigning today in North Carolina. If he ignores Mark Robinson, then you know the reports are true.

[shdmn]

More like trying to flee justice.

 

 

Still waiting for the convicted felon fraudster to do it like he promised before the last election.

 

Edited 14 hours ago by shdmn

[riclag]

On 9/18/2024 at 7:10 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

 

At last.  I hear you and can understand most of what you are saying, and I do agree with some of your points. You have made a very good summary of what the issues are with regards to Trump as a person (flawed) and how divided politics currently is in the USA.

 

However, before I go into a few things in response - and like you I dont want just to throw abuse back and forth - there is a view on things that you may not have considered enough.  When someone is clearly in one side of the political divide, it is very hard for them to truly see the errors and inconstancies and the faults of that side they have chosen - but they can see every single flaw and fault of the other side.  In that position it is very hard for a person to reconcile their own formed views against any factual situation that challenges that view - it is called cognitive bias.  According to Google, 'Cognitive bias is a systematic thought process caused by the tendency of the human brain to simplify information processing through a filter of personal experience and preferences. The filtering process is a coping mechanism that enables the brain to prioritize and process large amounts of information quickly.'  And that is as viable an explanation as I can find - and I am certainly not immune from it either. 

 

However, although not immune, I can see the arguments about Trump and his personality 'disorder' and his growing mental slow down - absolutely.  But aside from the mental slowdown part, that 'personality disorder' is extremely common in hyper successful men - Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison etc etc etc. They all have a personality disorder as such, and they all have a very strong ego and self belief - those traits are absolutely necessary to become what they have become - it is genetic - you can 'grow it'.  I know that makes Trump very 'unappealing' to many people - but if I was to say to you that Obama was not the smooth sweet lovely man that he portrayed himself to be - would you accept and understand that he is a diplomatic politician and he has the social skills to perform that act brilliantly - and that was why he was selected over Hillary, who is far less 'convincing'.  I have met many politicians and the top dogs are those that have the ability to stab you in the back while smiling to your face - the King of them being Bill Clinton.  Trump is not a good experienced and seasoned politician at all - but I accept that (and all his flaws) because he has IMO the right policies compared to the Dems (as I listed before).  He is by far the better option to have as POTUS in the current world situation - especially with the situations developing in Europe and Russia. 

 

The USA is being presented witrh the choice between 2 very personally flawed people, but I am certain that if Trump is elected and becomes the POTUS again, he will achieve a good outcome for USA and the World. Hopefully that will happen and people like yourself who can see/hear the 'other side' will then accept that he did a good job and that they were wrong.

 

I also thought Bill Clinton was a charlatan, and to some extent he was/is, but he achieved a lot of good things. Impeaching him for being caught being 'naughty' with a female intern was one of the biggest mistakes the GOP has ever made - it was what IMO started the divide in USA politics. The inevitable hatred that has flowed from then, made into an artform by the Dems and stupidly ignored by the GOP, is not a good thing and it aint over yet. One more term for Trump in a landslide win is the answer IMO - because I think he will bridge the divide - after he has destroyed what Biden/Harris have done.  That will happen I hope, and unlike after 2016 when they protested and attacked Trump for denying Hillary's turn, the Dems in power will be forced to go back to the middle ground and dump all the lunatic left wing woke policies that are not what the USA is about. 

 

“The USA is being presented witrh the choice between 2 very personally flawed people, but I am certain that if Trump is elected and becomes the POTUS again, he will achieve a good outcome for USA and the World. Hopefully that will happen and people like yourself who can see/hear the 'other side' will then accept that he did a good job and that they were wrong”.

 

https://www.iom.int/sites/g/files/tmzbdl486/files/jahia/webdav/site/myjahiasite/shared/shared/mainsite/policy_and_research/gcim/gmp/gmp22.pdf

 

Im with you all the way for Trump & the republic! But its a little  naive to think that Trumps policies will be acceptable by the people who want to showcase & accept mass migration, many progressives oppose borders. What ever happened  to legal immigration, we hear so little of that now.But to achieve 

proper borders , to protect the citizens ,one must have walls & strict law enforcement.

Global elites formation of forced migration on western civilization particularly in the USA ,will be addressed , according  to Trump ,the first day through Executive Order.
 

[Danderman123]

On 9/20/2024 at 5:54 AM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

He denies making those remarks - lets see how it goes going forward.

It could be like what Trump said about Charlottesville - or it could be bad if it was true.

 

Yes - a Trump political weakness is his inability to sometimes just shut up.

Ann Coulter has called him out several times about it.

But the truth is he is blunt and direct - not a smooth lying politician/diplomat. 

Fox News host Jesse Watters claims he’s ‘never heard of’ Mark Robinson — despite interviewing him this year

 

I guess Mark Robinson is a non-person now. How many here Trumpers here will claim they never heard of him?

[Steven55]

On 9/18/2024 at 12:09 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I have never met the man but that does not stop me from going to social media to say he is great.

 

The man is flawed but his message and values and policies are great for USA and the World.

 

He is essentially 'anti-woke' and 'anti-globalist' and 'anti-progressive liberal' and 'anti-radical minority groups' who are tearing down western values and morals.

Plus he is going to 'drain the swamp' when he is elected POTUS - he was distracted and fooled last time - but this time he will hit the ground running and take them down.

Trying to get the alligators to voluntarily leave the swamp was foolish - the only solution is to drain the swamp and then permanently remove them. 

He is going to make Javier Milei (Argentina) look like a librarian - Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it.

 

Sure - if you are a woke liberal and you support Palestine, Illegal Immigrants and other radical minorities, and you are a globalist (socialist) who loves the UN and EU, and leaders like Macron, Trudea, Starmer, Scholz, and Albanese etc etc, and unelected socialists like Von Der Leyen, António Guterres and Schwab etc etc. -  then you will hate what Trump is going to do.  But I think that the majority are going to see through the media lies and how much a disaster another 4 (or even 8 ) years of Bidenomics would be. 

 

And best of all - he can dodge a bullet - even Reagan could not do that 😁

 

Trump is just bragging, he won't solve any of your 'issues' you mentioned above. Trump just says what his voters like to hear = populism.

So, you said "Trump is going to tear it all down so that they can never again re-buiild it." Tear down what? Kill all the people who are so-called 'woke'? Take away their civil rights? What, what? You are just writing big, rhetoric words, which are plain nonsense. In the 1930's you would have loved and voted for Hitler. Ok, Trump is not that bad, but you fall for big, empty words. Trump failed in MOST of his promises when he was in office, he will fail again if elected.

And next? Protectionism? That will cause poor countries become poorer --> more immigration to Europe and USA.

Von der Leyenhas been elected, because her party largest in EU.
António Guterres has been nominated and elected by all members of UN.
Schwab is just the leader of of an organization (with the goal to make the world sustainable for future generations), without any power.

 

[Digitalbanana]

On 9/18/2024 at 1:31 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

In response to those who claim Trump has no policies :-

 

1 Seal the border and stop the migrant invasion

2 Carry out the largest deportation operation in American history

3 End inflation, and make America affordable again

4 Make America the dominant energy producer in the world, by far!

5 STOP OUTSOURCING, AND TURN THE UNITED STATES INTO A MANUFACTURING SUPERPOWER

6 large tax cuts for workers, and no tax on tips!

7 Defend our constitution, our bill of rights, and our fundamental freedoms, including freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the right to keep and bear arms

8 Prevent world war three, restore peace in Europe and in the middle east, and build a great iron dome missile defense shield over our entire country -- all made in America

9 End the weaponization of government against the American people

10 Stop the migrant crime epidemic, demolish the foreign drug cartels, crush gang violence, and lock up violent offenders

11 Rebuild our cities, including Washington DC, making them safe, clean, and beautiful again.

12 Strengthen and modernize our military, making it, without question, the strongest and most powerful in the world

13 Keep the U.S. dollar as the world's reserve currency

14 Fight for and protect social security and Medicare with no cuts, including no changes to the retirement age

15 Cancel the electric vehicle mandate and cut costly and burdensome regulations

16 Cut federal funding for any school pushing critical race theory, radical gender ideology, and other inappropriate racial, sexual, or political content on our children

17 Keep men out of women's sports

18 Deport pro-Hamas radicals and make our college campuses safe and patriotic again

19 Secure our elections, including same day voting, voter identification, paper ballots, and proof of citizenship

20 Unite our country by bringing it to new and record levels of success

 

One would have to suffer from an inability to understand the larger picture to believe any of this nonsense.

[Steven55]

23 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Funny - I dont remember you posting links about Biden's senility Or Obama's narcissism.

 

OMG, this topic is about TRUMP, not Biden, Not Obama! You really have a problem regarding analytical/logical thinking (your opening post showed this already) . But no surprise: half of the Trump voters have the same problem: only first-level thinking, believing ANYTHING Trump says. Just for FYI: here another 12 fictional stories of the biggest liar in modern history: https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-12-completely-fictional-140141996.html

[xylophone]

46 minutes ago, Steven55 said:

OMG, this topic is about TRUMP, not Biden, Not Obama! You really have a problem regarding analytical/logical thinking (your opening post showed this already) . But no surprise: half of the Trump voters have the same problem: only first-level thinking, believing ANYTHING Trump says. Just for FYI: here another 12 fictional stories of the biggest liar in modern history: https://www.yahoo.com/news/fact-check-12-completely-fictional-140141996.html

Thanks for that link Steven55, it is absolutely mind blowing that trumpies on here will believe anything this moronic liar says. He has proven time and time again that he is out of sync with reality and speaks whatever comes into his tiny mind, and most of the time this is unadulterated rubbish and complete and utter lies.

 

The only question should be, "how far down the senile dementia path is he?" Because he is not really fit to lead the US in his current state, let alone the one that he is heading towards.

 

[Cameroni]

6 minutes ago, xylophone said:

The only question should be, "how far down the senile dementia path is he?"

 

Unadulterated rubbish and complete and utter lies.

 

Looks like you're confusing Biden with Trump.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

10 hours ago, riclag said:

 

“The USA is being presented witrh the choice between 2 very personally flawed people, but I am certain that if Trump is elected and becomes the POTUS again, he will achieve a good outcome for USA and the World. Hopefully that will happen and people like yourself who can see/hear the 'other side' will then accept that he did a good job and that they were wrong”.

 

https://www.iom.int/sites/g/files/tmzbdl486/files/jahia/webdav/site/myjahiasite/shared/shared/mainsite/policy_and_research/gcim/gmp/gmp22.pdf

 

Im with you all the way for Trump & the republic! But its a little  naive to think that Trumps policies will be acceptable by the people who want to showcase & accept mass migration, many progressives oppose borders. What ever happened  to legal immigration, we hear so little of that now.But to achieve 

proper borders , to protect the citizens ,one must have walls & strict law enforcement.

Global elites formation of forced migration on western civilization particularly in the USA ,will be addressed , according  to Trump ,the first day through Executive Order.
 

The only hope as I see it, to never ending episodes of massive left to right swings as each Party wins and then destroys the other's policies, is for Trump to win by a landslide - or to lose by a landslide.  I am hoping Trumps wins bigly, and then the Dems will be forced to get rid of their radical socialist views as pushed by Obama, Clinton and others, and move back to where they were when people like Musk and Maher supported them - progressive, by not lunatic left.