Thai police shut down 21 villas on Koh Samui, foreigners evicted

[Patong2021]

3 minutes ago, Umlungu said:

So what happens next? Bulldoze the lot and reinstate the hill environment to its oiginal state? doubt it. Who would pay for that?

 

The developer  is expected to  pay, but  it is the local municipality budget that pays.

[Umlungu]

12 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

A much 'lightened' wallet too.

I bought, built and sold.  Made money AND I have lived rent free for 24 years and counting.

I even get revenue for the ones that I haven't sold.

Yeh, sure - buying is for mugs

Had a house built, lived in it for 8 years, sold at 2.5mb net profit. 

[NorthernRyland]

6 hours ago, kwilco said:

I believe the basic law in Thailand is that any land that has an incline of over 19% is automatically property of the crown - so any building on land like that either has special permission (e.g. Temples) or is illegal.

 

I can think of many structures on steeper land but somehow they get approval. It seems often once somebody gets in for whatever reason and builds something they virtually never pull it down so there's an incentive to pay bribes and build before a higher authority finds out. Samui is just too high profile to get away with it so easily. Also the gradient is 30% I think.

[kwilco]

32 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

I can think of many structures on steeper land but somehow they get approval. It seems often once somebody gets in for whatever reason and builds something they virtually never pull it down so there's an incentive to pay bribes and build before a higher authority finds out. Samui is just too high profile to get away with it so easily. Also the gradient is 30% I think.

"I can think of many structures on steeper land" - I don't think you could actually name them. the rule is  that  a gradient / slope more than 19 degrees or 35%: Building (or modification of existing) is not permitted!

 

As I said there may be exceptions granted on behalf of the crown - temples being the main example.

On Samui this has long been a problem though down to corruption.

I think there was some retro dispensation given to some building as well.....but I'd like to hear your examples.

 

THailand is one country where I've seen a lot of buildings knocked down after planning law breaches - specifically jungle encroachment seems an example.

THere is also the problem with long-term derelict buildings where construction has stopped for one reason or another.

 

Edited September 19 by kwilco

[theblether]

How old are these villas? 

[BusyB]

8 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I fear you have been reading too much of the posts concerning the upcoming U.S. elections. The tone, outlook would fit right in with the ridiculous anger venting … jai yen, yen  (not meant as a criticism, just an observation out of concern …).

 

I've been hanging around this forum since 2004 or so, before joining in 2009.

 

Believe me, hang 'em high is nothing in the least bit new on AN (once Thai Visa). It well predates the US election 555.

Edited September 19 by BusyB

[baansgr]

Par for the course with Samui, this kind of thing dates back 20 years ago with the Bandidos and numerous agents selling land that should not be built on. Real chanotes issued illegally along with phoney planning permission. So many people don't realise the properties they have bought are not legal and can be torn down at anytime.

[Tailwagsdog]

Good Lesson here, if you are buying make sure your Thai Lawyer does the property search, checks the Title, checks building permit, encumbrances, easements, etc ...not just settle and take a few ....Caveat Emptor

[phetphet]

15 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

The development is right on the border of Tambon Bophut. I had to check that one as well.

 

That original road was supposed to go to a country club that was to be built. Not sure exactly where. After a bit of legal argy bargy it was found that the land was forestry commission land and so the club was cancelled but the road was great for the locals for exercise.

The gate was always locked back then, but folk would park cars on front of the gate and bikes could negotiate a ditch and park inside. They then cleared some land and made the car park. The rest is history.

I was surprised when the Black Rabbit was built. Before that it was a wooden shack balanced on the edge of the drop, where you could buy refreshments etc after the steep hike up.

 

I like the thought that folk were taking guns up there. Isn't the Black Rabbit run by Russians???

 

15 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

The development is right on the border of Tambon Bophut. I had to check that one as well.

 

That original road was supposed to go to a country club that was to be built. Not sure exactly where. After a bit of legal argy bargy it was found that the land was forestry commission land and so the club was cancelled but the road was great for the locals for exercise.

The gate was always locked back then, but folk would park cars on front of the gate and bikes could negotiate a ditch and park inside. They then cleared some land and made the car park. The rest is history.

I was surprised when the Black Rabbit was built. Before that it was a wooden shack balanced on the edge of the drop, where you could buy refreshments etc after the steep hike up.

 

I like the thought that folk were taking guns up there. Isn't the Black Rabbit run by Russians???

There is yet another new road up there. Starts just before the original one turns to go up to the Black Rabbit, and runs parallel to it. Looks like it is heading to those villas being built before Replay.

 

Before it became Black Rabbit, it was no longer just a shack. It was a nice looking little coffee shop with fantastic views. It was up for sale for quite a while, and then became the Black Rabbit.

There is also a nice looking house up there. Well not so much the house, but the owner, Thai I presume has cleared all the land in front to make a large, sloped garden with large rocks peppered all over. He must have fantastic views across to Koh Phangan.

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

Par for the course with Samui, this kind of thing dates back 20 years ago with the Bandidos and numerous agents selling land that should not be built on. Real chanotes issued illegally along with phoney planning permission. So many people don't realise the properties they have bought are not legal and can be torn down at anytime.

 

Once the property is more than 10 years old, 'squatter's rights' seems to apply.

They do not knock the houses down, just revoke land titles.

A couple of examples (there are many more here) -

 

The developer here had a nice plot of land - agricultural purposes only.

He built a small house (for free) for a Thai family to live there. Free utilities.

After 10 years, they applied to have the land re-designated as nor sor sam.

Successful.

The Thais moved on, the developer developed and sold the property.

 

A neighbour bought two plots of land (One facing east, one west) built a big FU property on top of the hill behind me.

Three pools, gym, sauna etc etc

One section of the land is illegal. Forged chanote.

Half of his house is legal (west facing) the other half is illegal.

He has just lost the first appeal against the government. Final appeal in a year or three.

When he loses that (and he will - even his lawyer says so) he can still have the house. (> than 10 years old).

Revoked land title and he cannot pass the house on when he dies, nor sell it. Peppercorn rent for the illegal land.

 

TIT

 

Edited September 20 by Tropicalevo

[kwilco]

16 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I can think of many structures on steeper land but somehow they get approval. It seems often once somebody gets in for whatever reason and builds something they virtually never pull it down so there's an incentive to pay bribes and build before a higher authority finds out. Samui is just too high profile to get away with it so easily. Also the gradient is 30% I think.

Where???? I'm not saying that there aren't but you cannot come up with any examples....this is 35% incline....I think you haven't actually cindidered this but are just making a nape of the neck assumption.

 

And Samui HAS got away with it before...just do some research there has been more than one scandal associated with this in the past.

Edited September 20 by kwilco

[kwilco]

8 hours ago, Tropicalevo said:

 

Once the property is more than 10 years old, 'squatter's rights' seems to apply.

They do not knock the houses down, just revoke land titles.

A couple of examples (there are many more here) -

 

The developer here had a nice plot of land - agricultural purposes only.

He built a small house (for free) for a Thai family to live there. Free utilities.

After 10 years, they applied to have the land re-designated as nor sor sam.

Successful.

The Thais moved on, the developer developed and sold the property.

 

A neighbour bought two plots of land (One facing east, one west) built a big FU property on top of the hill behind me.

Three pools, gym, sauna etc etc

One section of the land is illegal. Forged chanote.

Half of his house is legal (west facing) the other half is illegal.

He has just lost the first appeal against the government. Final appeal in a year or three.

When he loses that (and he will - even his lawyer says so) he can still have the house. (> than 10 years old).

Revoked land title and he cannot pass the house on when he dies, nor sell it. Peppercorn rent for the illegal land.

 

TIT

 

20 years ago Samui was not properly surveyed - and still that situation lingers on Samui and many other parts of Thailand - this means that both real ownership and boundaries are not set in stone. THis means the land is ripe for corrupt deals.

[Tropicalevo]

22 minutes ago, kwilco said:

20 years ago Samui was not properly surveyed - and still that situation lingers on Samui and many other parts of Thailand - this means that both real ownership and boundaries are not set in stone. This means the land is ripe for corrupt deals.

Very true.

The DSI have been working on some cases where I live, for at least 8 - 10 years.

Some time before that, they found that the 'master' land titles registered in Bangkok did not match the ones registered here.

The recent helicopter surveys are only checking the obvious, newer constructions.

[kwilco]

45 minutes ago, Tropicalevo said:

Very true.

The DSI have been working on some cases where I live, for at least 8 - 10 years.

Some time before that, they found that the 'master' land titles registered in Bangkok did not match the ones registered here.

The recent helicopter surveys are only checking the obvious, newer constructions.

I have written a synopsis of the various land scandals on Samui (did in fact work for some of them) - if I digit out, I'll post it here

[theblether]

Can I ask again how old is this development? From what I understand re it's location I visited one of these villas in 2010. As mentioned, it had fantastic views and the villa I visited was likely the first built ( I think around 2009 ). 

[Tropicalevo]

1 hour ago, theblether said:

Can I ask again how old is this development? From what I understand re it's location I visited one of these villas in 2010. As mentioned, it had fantastic views and the villa I visited was likely the first built ( I think around 2009 ). 

 

This project is more recent than that.

Many villas there are unfinished.

 

 

 

Quote

The project is registered under the name of Anju Cement Company, a Chinese investment group that acquired about 10 rai of land for construction in 2018....

 

: https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2024/07/15/forestry-police-halt-illegal-samui-resort-construction/

 

Quote

Col. Dusit Kesornkaew, the task force leader, stated that construction began in 2018 and continues to date. Irregularities include lack of building permits, construction on slopes exceeding 140 meters (where 70% of the area should remain vacant)...

 

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/featured/2024/06/26/samui-task-force-cracks-down-on-52-foreign-villas-with-hidden-rentals/

[NorthernRyland]

7 hours ago, kwilco said:

Where???? I'm not saying that there aren't but you cannot come up with any examples....this is 35% incline....I think you haven't actually cindidered this but are just making a nape of the neck assumption.

 

They're putting them up in Pong Yaeng Chiang Mai where I live near. Something happened after COVID and there's been a surge of tourism in the area. They're cutting into steep mountains which never had structures there before. Some corruption is happening I'm sure of it.

 

Look at this thing. They cut into the mountain but those grades look over 30% when you're passing by. I didn't survey it but I'm very suspicious.

 

 

hard to see from here but those are questionable also. They all appeared in a few years which is suspicious too.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 20 by NorthernRyland

[kwilco]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

They're putting them up in Pong Yaeng Chiang Mai where I live near. Something happened after COVID and there's been a surge of tourism in the area. They're cutting into steep mountains which never had structures there before. Some corruption is happening I'm sure of it.

 

Look at this thing. They cut into the mountain but those grades look over 30% when you're passing by. I didn't survey it but I'm very suspicious.

 

 

hard to see from here but those are questionable also. They all appeared in a few years which is suspicious too.

 

 

 

 

 

Highly suspicious - they are most likely bending the law - 2 look as if they are built in a "quarry" - A 19 degree incline is more 1in 3 in terms of road signs - more than extremely steep roads.

[Zack61]

For future reference can you report the names of the three companies?

[phetphet]

I drove, well tried driving up to a villa around that Jungle Club area two or three years ago.

Couldn't make it. The road was so steep the car lost traction and starting sliding backwards and turning. Scared the life out of me. I managed to slowly reverse down and get out of trouble. I always parked and walked after that.

Only accessible with 4 wheel drive.

Although the water trucks did it quite regularly, it must have been a sphincter puckering moment for the drivers.

[NorthernRyland]

13 hours ago, kwilco said:

Highly suspicious - they are most likely bending the law - 2 look as if they are built in a "quarry" - A 19 degree incline is more 1in 3 in terms of road signs - more than extremely steep roads.

Maybe some of the grades are averaged over the plot and not technically 30% but the building on any mountains is high unusual in Thailand. If you look around on Google maps you will see the villages always stop directly at the mountain edge. My rental house in the mountains is on a steep slope but they owned this late in the village before the Thais arrived and issued deeds etc... so they let them get away with it.

 

I think in Pong Yaeng some big money got in and designated the area as a "special zone" or something. I have seem lots of buildings in Phuket, Samui on mountains too I suspect the same things happening there.

[HammerGuy]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:02 PM, snoop1130 said:

 

Police on the picturesque island of Koh Samui swooped and shut down 21 luxury villas that were built illegally on the pristine Khao Ma Ngaen mountain, leaving foreign tenants scrambling to pack their bags.

 

Municipal, military, and ombudsman officials yesterday, September 17, slapped closure notices on the villas, which were among 46 properties constructed without permits. These villas had brazenly encroached on the mountainside in the Bo Phut subdistrict, a popular tourist hub.

 

Three of the 21 villas were occupied by foreign tenants, who were left no choice but to vacate. One of them, a Frenchman running a local cleaning business, had signed a one-year lease and was paying 20,000 baht a month for his slice of paradise.

 

“I had no idea this place was illegal,” he said as he packed his belongings. All tenants cooperated and swiftly vacated the premises.

 

 

 

 

 

The remaining villas, though empty, were still being advertised as available for lease, luring potential tenants into the same legal mess.

 

Colonel Dusit Kesornkaeo, head of environmental protection at the Internal Security Operations Command, confirmed the crackdown, stating that the villas were ordered closed after no appeals were filed against the original ruling.

 

“These properties had no right to be here.”

 

The 46 villas, including the 21 already closed, were part of a wider illegal development scheme run by three companies, all of which failed to obtain proper building permits, reported Bangkok Post.

 

By Puntid Tantivangphaisal

Photo courtesy of Bangkok Post

 

Source: The Thaiger

-- 2024-09-18
 

 

I remember 20 years on samui my mate that worked for a time share in chaweng asked me to help him out on a sale by going in to the office (Saying that he sent me so he could earn the commission) And the salesman was so <deleted> smooth I found myself nearly parting with dosh !! But after an hour I got out, But they are very plausible especially for other people if English is there 2nd language, Like I said I've always rented & that includes women ! ⚒️

[Jerry777]

On 9/19/2024 at 5:32 AM, waders123 said:

It's a real shame to see these beautiful villas demolished. Now that the money has been spent and the buildings are completed, it would be a waste to tear them down. Perhaps the villas could be repurposed into something useful, like housing for top government officials.    😋 Just kidding!  That would be wrong.....or would it?

 

Just a thought:  Demolishing the villas without proper slope rehabilitation could indeed increase the risk of landslides, posing a danger to those living below.

Top Gov housing for holidays is the best use.

[deesquared]

There are loads of villas on that mountain. Why did this one get targeted?

[ross163103]

On 9/23/2024 at 2:15 AM, deesquared said:

There are loads of villas on that mountain. Why did this one get targeted?

 

Developer probably didn't distribute enough brown envelopes. TIT

[kuma]

On 9/18/2024 at 6:26 PM, NativeBob said:

20K /month for villa on the slope at Bo Put ?!

In beloved Bangkok you can't get even decent 2 rooms & kitchen flat for less than 25K 

and THIS for 20K only?

Drove up there last time we dropped in to KS. The drive up is not simple...its doable but at night, heavy rain etc ut would be not the most fun, for me anyway. Obce up there you sort of hope you did not forget anything cause you have to go all the way. back down to get anything, it is empty up there... but yes had a view