Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[chiang mai]

I extended my anual stay visa in Chiang Mai this week, as expected there was no mention made of tax or TIN's. I was asked what the value of my pensions is, for the first time, so I gave them a low ball number.....which is what I hope others are doing also (no need to propagate the idea that all foreigners are wealthy). 

[jwest10]

15 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I extended my anual stay visa in Chiang Mai this week, as expected there was no mention made of tax or TIN's. I was asked what the value of my pensions is, for the first time, so I gave them a low ball number.....which is what I hope others are doing also (no need to propagate the idea that all foreigners are wealthy). 

Great to hear I was asked that several years ago by the Authorities who came to my house but no one knows what is going to happen in 2025 and yes, the extension comes up in January 2025

 

[The Cyclist]

10 hours ago, UKresonant said:

I had understood that a NT tax code was almost impossible to obtain  from the UK tax authority HMRC, in relation to residency in Thailand. It was likely stay to stay that way, as long as Thailand was remittance based tax.  Could reclaim using a Thai tax cert against UK tax though.

 

Has UK HMRC  issued any updates?

 

 

The process is fairly simple, although it would be advisable to get a Tax Accountant to do the Donkey work with HMRC.

 

1. Government Pension, no way, unless you are a dual National who returns to original Country

 

2. State Pension. Dont know, but I think the above would apply.

 

3. Private pensions, perfectly feasible.

 

Obtain other Country TIN

 

Give to Tax Accountant with details of what you want the NT Tax code to apply to

 

Let the Tax Accountant do the rest.

 

When the dust settles here in Thailand. I'll probably go down that route with my private pension as it will probably benefit me to have it taxed in Thailand, rather than a straight 20% in the UK

 

P85 is the form that needs completed, which can be found and completed online on the HMRC website.

[The Cyclist]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I extended my anual stay visa in Chiang Mai this week, as expected there was no mention made of tax or TIN's. I was asked what the value of my pensions is, for the first time, so I gave them a low ball number.....which is what I hope others are doing also (no need to propagate the idea that all foreigners are wealthy). 

 

Renewed on Thursday.

 

No mention of TIN's / Tax / or Pensions. Just the usual, in and out in 30 minutes.

[jwest10]

On 11/24/2024 at 7:58 AM, The Cyclist said:

 

Renewed on Thursday.

 

No mention of TIN's / Tax / or Pensions. Just the usual, in and out in 30 minutes.

There are no forms pnd 90 and 91's as yet when coming out, of ever and also hearing some banks are sending emails out confirming your Nationality and has anyone received either of these yet?

[The Cyclist]

6 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

and also hearing some banks are sending emails out confirming your Nationality and has anyone received either of these yet?

 

There is a whole thread dedicated to KBank who emailed out the forms over the weekend.

 

 

6 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

There are no forms pnd 90 and 91's as yet

 

Yet, being the  operative word.

[jwest10]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:09 AM, jwest10 said:

There are no forms pnd 90 and 91's as yet when coming out, of ever and also hearing some banks are sending emails out confirming your Nationality and has anyone received either of these yet?

The middle of Dec and still no forms 90 or 91  and the Exemption Tax allowances and have again been up to my local tax office and they seem to have no idea if and when and in any case stated again that I would be well under the 500k or 560K threshold and do not work here.
I explained again that I have a pink card and so many times been told that I do not need to file a tax form.
They also asked if I am in employment and stated no I do not then you do not need to but keeping manual records of what income comes in ie The State Pension and very small amounts of private pension and some already taxed
Cheers just trying to be helpful but at the end of the day I do not think anyone knows and so many experts!!! 

[redwood1]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

The middle of Dec and still no forms 90 or 91  and the Exemption Tax allowances and have again been up to my local tax office and they seem to have no idea if and when and in any case stated again that I would be well under the 500k or 560K threshold and do not work here.
I explained again that I have a pink card and so many times been told that I do not need to file a tax form.
They also asked if I am in employment and stated no I do not then you do not need to but keeping manual records of what income comes in ie The State Pension and very small amounts of private pension and some already taxed
Cheers just trying to be helpful but at the end of the day I do not think anyone knows and so many experts!!! 

 

Everyone who posts about taxes here is a expert.....I myself am quite the tax expert.....And my expert advice is when Thais or the Chinese,Russians,and Indian expats start filing taxes ( if ever)......Then it will be time to file taxes......

[chiang mai]

8 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Everyone who posts about taxes here is a expert.....I myself am quite the tax expert.....And my expert advice is when Thais or the Chinese,Russians,and Indian expats start filing taxes ( if ever)......Then it will be time to file taxes......

How will we know when they do?

[redwood1]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

How will we know when they do?

 

Trust me it will be all over the news.....These folks will be making quite the news worthy stink about any taxes...

[chiang mai]

12 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

 

Trust me it will be all over the news.....These folks will be making quite the news worthy stink about any taxes...

News where, Thailand? I doubt that, they don't have a public voice or mouth piece here and even the English speaking media isn't going to print stories about it. Unlike westerners, my guess is that we will hear nothing publically about them, they are not known for their western style whinging. It's also quite a bit easier for those nationals to skip home and avoid 180 days, those countries are much closer than farangland countries. Also, those countries don't have reliable compliant government information sharing schemes and none have comparable pension schemes such as US SSc, UK State Pension or US pension schemes hence traceability is going to be very different. Correction: India has state pensions.

[sandyf]

 

post deleted

 

[Lorry]

10 hours ago, chiang mai said:

News where, Thailand? I doubt that, they don't have a public voice or mouth piece here and even the English speaking media isn't going to print stories about it. Unlike westerners, my guess is that we will hear nothing publically about them, they are not known for their western style whinging. It's also quite a bit easier for those nationals to skip home and avoid 180 days, those countries are much closer than farangland countries. Also, those countries don't have reliable compliant government information sharing schemes and none have comparable pension schemes such as US SSc, UK State Pension or US pension schemes hence traceability is going to be very different. Correction: India has state pensions.

Quite a few of the Chinese here are from HK or Taiwan, which have very efficient government information sharing schemes and pension schemes

[OJAS]

On 12/14/2024 at 1:46 PM, jwest10 said:

The middle of Dec and still no forms 90 or 91 

 

@chiang mai - can you recall when TRD issued the 2023 versions of these forms? Before or after mid-Dec 2023?

 

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

@chiang mai - can you recall when TRD issued the 2023 versions of these forms? Before or after mid-Dec 2023?

 

I can't recall what I had for lunch yesterday! 🙂

 

Sorry, no I don't.

[jwest10]

16 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I can't recall what I had for lunch yesterday! 🙂

 

Sorry, no I don't.

Frankly as we have all know no one has a clue and that includes the tax offices and so many experts and how many Thais are they going to chase up as well?

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, jwest10 said:

Frankly as we have all know no one has a clue and that includes the tax offices and so many experts and how many Thais are they going to chase up as well?

I doubt very much that many Thai people will be nervously and expectantly asking when the new tax forms will be released. most would probably ask what that is!

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

Frankly as we have all know no one has a clue and that includes the tax offices and so many experts and how many Thais are they going to chase up as well?

 

The fact that the TRD have produced a leaflet in English* but not a corresponding one in Thai (as far as I can tell) might indicate that foreigners, rather than locals, would more likely find themselves in the TRD crosshairs should they decide to do any chasing up (not a given in the short term at least, though, I think).

 

* https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

The fact that the TRD have produced a leaflet in English* but not a corresponding one in Thai (as far as I can tell) might indicate that foreigners, rather than locals, would more likely find themselves in the TRD crosshairs should they decide to do any chasing up (not a given in the short term at least, though, I think).

 

* https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

I don't know how true that is, the fact is that Thai people understand they are in the tax system and they have many sources from which to easily obtain information. Foreigners on the other hand, many think they are outside the system (at least they did) and there wasn't too much out there for them to read and understand about Thai tax. Of course, all that has changed now and there is a wealth of information, from very reliable sources such as PWC, KPMG, Sherrings and Mazars and of course, from the TRD themselves, Nearly all of that has come about in the past year so it's no wonder there are lots of foreigners who are going through steep learning curves and for whom news of this is a shock. 

[Ricardo]

52 minutes ago, OJAS said:

 

* https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/lorkhor/newspr/2024/FOREIGNERS_PAY_TAX2024.pdf

 

 

Useful pdf-file, and pretty clear, as far as it goes, Thank-You for posting it.

 

But it still doesn't say whether the TRD will still want a form filing, when one doesn't actually owe them any tax, as I calculate that I myself do not, after allowances & zero-tax band are applied.   

 

I'd also read it to say, they do not expect to tax income earned overseas, which isn't transferred into Thailand  ...  FWIW.

[Antti]

There’s a new article on taxes on BP. It states that 4 million people in Thailand pay income tax. According to ChatGPT, there are approximately 2 million civil servants in Thailand. If we assume they all pay income tax, that leaves only 2 million people in the private sector contributing to income tax. I’m genuinely impressed by the tax-dodging skills of Thai people!

[CapraIbex]

39 minutes ago, Antti said:

According to ChatGPT

According to ChatGPT [quote] can make mistakes. [/quote]

[chiang mai]

An interesting statement in todays Bangkok Post in the interview with the Finance Minister:

 

He said although Thailand's top personal income tax rate is 35%, research shows the effective rate, after accounting for various exemptions and deductions, is only around 10% for those at the top rate, not the full 35%.

Please credit and share this article with others using this link: https://www.bangkokpost.com/business/general/2920475/a-taxing-question. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Bangkok Post PCL. All rights reserved.

[stat]

9 hours ago, Antti said:

There’s a new article on taxes on BP. It states that 4 million people in Thailand pay income tax. According to ChatGPT, there are approximately 2 million civil servants in Thailand. If we assume they all pay income tax, that leaves only 2 million people in the private sector contributing to income tax. I’m genuinely impressed by the tax-dodging skills of Thai people!

The word “Thai” means “free”, and therefore, “Thailand” means “Land of the Free”.

[Yumthai]

53 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

He said although Thailand's top personal income tax rate is 35%, research shows the effective rate, after accounting for various exemptions and deductions, is only around 10% for those at the top rate, not the full 35%.

I'm curious how they calculate because declaring at the top PIT rate = declaring 5M THB. Even with full possible allowances/deductions I can't get close to 10% effective tax rate.

[JimGant]

35 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

I'm curious how they calculate because declaring at the top PIT rate = declaring 5M THB. Even with full possible allowances/deductions I can't get close to 10% effective tax rate.

With allowances and deductions and freebie (60k personal, 60k married, 190k over age 65, 100k pension -- plus 150k freebie rate = 560k) -- the effective tax rate on 5 million baht of assessable income would be: 25.2027%.  If you had assessable income of 4,560,001 -- meaning after deductions, allowances, and freebie -- you were in the 35% tax bracket by only 1 baht -- then your effective tax rate would be: 21.1624%. This would be the lowest possible effective tax rate for someone in the 35% tax bracket.

 

Obviously the person who arrived at an effective tax rate of 10%, for a person in the 35% tax bracket, included a lot more allowances and deductions than I did in my above example.

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

With allowances and deductions and freebie (60k personal, 60k married, 190k over age 65, 100k pension -- plus 150k freebie rate = 560k) -- the effective tax rate on 5 million baht of assessable income would be: 25.2027%.  If you had assessable income of 4,560,001 -- meaning after deductions, allowances, and freebie -- you were in the 35% tax bracket by only 1 baht -- then your effective tax rate would be: 21.1624%. This would be the lowest possible effective tax rate for someone in the 35% tax bracket.

 

Obviously the person who arrived at an effective tax rate of 10%, for a person in the 35% tax bracket, included a lot more allowances and deductions than I did in my above example.

 

Perhaps he's assuming that the person takes every allowance and deduction/allowance possible?

[Antti]

Maybe he meant that Thai people who are in the highest bracket (often high ranking government officials) receive enough brown envelopes during the year to bring their real tax rate down to 10%.

[Yumthai]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Perhaps he's assuming that the person takes every allowance and deduction/allowance possible?

Even with that can't come close to 10%, can you?

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Even with that can't come close to 10%, can you?

A person who fled as self employed and took the 60% standard deduction for costs, along with all the other deductions probably could......but I'm not about to test or prove this, I only pointed out what he said, I'm not going to try and prove/disprove it.