Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, Lorry said:

I think that's what he means by "stunt"

I would only do it after professional advice, and preferably not this year - later, when the dust has settled.

Gift tax was discussed in the first tax thread in extenso, opinions differ.

I think Mike Lister has summarized it in the pinned tax guide. 

 

You are probably ok, but I would gift it as a special occasion, just in case: wedding or something like that (betrothal? Exams?). Birthday may not count. 

 

I agree most gifts should be made on a special occasion as you describe.

 

The Thai tax code specifically lists a different situation and that is a gift under moral obligation.  There is no expected timing on that.

 

I have brought my daughters from 5 & 8 years old, clearly I have a moral obligation to educate them.

[Lorry]

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

 

I agree most gifts should be made on a special occasion as you describe.

 

The Thai tax code specifically lists a different situation and that is a gift under moral obligation.  There is no expected timing on that.

 

I have brought my daughters from 5 & 8 years old, clearly I have a moral obligation to educate them.

I know, and I aslo think there's a clear moral obligation. 

An additional special occasion wouldn't hurt, just in case.  But according to the law, not necessary. 

[JBChiangRai]

3 minutes ago, Lorry said:

I know, and I aslo think there's a clear moral obligation. 

An additional special occasion wouldn't hurt, just in case.  But according to the law, not necessary. 

 

Agreed, my special occasion is the 1st January each year, the gift being for all costs related to their education in the coming year.

 

I might give them additional gifts on their graduation, birthdays and other occasions, though these would need careful thought as it's not as clear a case.

[jwest10]

1 hour ago, Phulublub said:

jwest

 

Accoridng to https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad#:~:text=If you live abroad but,UK tax on your pension.

"...If you’re not a UK resident, you don’t usually pay UK tax on your pension. But you might have to pay tax in the country you live in..." 

(For the avoidance of doubt of others, this refers to the UK State Pension, not private or Government Pensions)

 

you should not pay UK tax on your State Pension.  Is that the case for you?  if so, id dthis happend automatically when you informed HMRC of your residence status?

 

Phulublub
Thanks and HMRC yes they do know for sure.

 

 

 

Phulu

[jwest10]

16 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Trust me as an ex-owner of a UK LTD company that paid dividends, the Tax I misunderstood was actually the company offsetting profits against corporate tax not me as an individual..

 

I really got things wrong on this one (Hold my hand up). 

 

 

Anyways, I'm done on this thread, apparently discussing UK Tax related issues is frowned upon on here so I'm bowing out (as I've noticed Mike L has already done). 

 

Good luck to all.... 

 

Yes, it seems the advice and not legal is the Revenue has no clue about this ex-pat issue they simply do not know and  I have been 3 times in the last month to my local branch and yes we all know so many tax experts with widely different views and of course the Government (which one and for how long) also do not know but fact is like in the western world they never go after the filthy rich and only 10 million Thais do file.
So we await but we have all done our calculations and many of us very straightforward, or so it should be but the Authorities, again nothing is simple
Also, they have to find.10k Baht for this so-called Digital Wallet scheme and just where are they going to get this money from?
We await official forms and printing in October/November but we shall soon find out official announcements which is doubtful.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

I too have read the DTA between the US and Thailand - I only have seen US government pensions are taxed only by the US government but that other state pensions may not be taxed only by the US government.

Well they did also say Social security and annuities, 

 

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

That is why many people will probably need a local tax agent who hopefully understands what the TRD will determine what is assessable or not

I agree,

I am just going to assume that non of the funds I transferred are non assessable, and not file a tax return.

Let them audit me. then I can simply claim that all the funds I  transferred were from savings realised before 2024 . 

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

from what I have read on this forum from those who have gone to the local TRD and asked any questions about interpretations based on the new interpretations, the local office reps have not been given any directions YET so maybe you can get an idea of what they will say or maybe not. 

If the Thai tax profesional are not sure , how the heck can we be? and that's  seven months in the Taxable year. TIT

 

[CharlesHolzhauer]

4 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

I posted this elsewhere, but I will repeat it here as it is important.

 

My opinion on this whole fiasco, is that September's announcement aimed at Thai people should have just slid under the radar.

 

A minor change that would probably impact foreigners in a minor way or not at all has been picked up the expat community and trumpeted from the rooftops as doom & gloom and because of all that "noise" it now faces the risk of becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

The change was simple and to earned income being transferred in a year subsequent to when it was earned.  My accountant told me years ago that they would close this avenue.

 

Expats started noisily shouting "What about me, What about me?" 

 

What everyone failed to notice was that we have always been liable to Thai Income Tax on earned income brought here in the same year.  They have never enforced it, now because of all this noise they may in the future.

 

Thai governmental style is to float something in the media and quietly watch the reaction.  You've seen it recently with Cannabis legislation.  If the public hate it, then they issue a statement saying it's not going ahead.  All the noise from Expat's has been incredibly damaging.

 

Absolutely the worst thing that could happen now is hundreds or thousands of expats start filling in tax returns.   You want to make the whole expat community an easy mark?  Then go ahead.

 

If you want this to disappear, then keep quiet and do nothing and wait for clarification addressed specifically to us.

 

It's important that any kind of public feedback you give furthers the cause of this disappearing.  DO NOT publicly say you will fill in a tax return.

 

When I received the questionnaire from Thai Privilege Company, I told them unequivocally that I would leave Thailand if they taxed me transferring funds from the UK.  Feedback is important - don't make this a self-fulfilling prophecy!

I am glad that your write-up is based on your opinion. Moreover, in my opinion, the TRD gives little attention if you were to leave Thailand for your mentioned reason or any other reasons.

[Presnock]

10 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Well they did also say Social security and annuities, 

 

I agree,

I am just going to assume that non of the funds I transferred are non assessable, and not file a tax return.

Let them audit me. then I can simply claim that all the funds I  transferred were from savings realised before 2024 . 

If the Thai tax profesional are not sure , how the heck can we be? and that's  seven months in the Taxable year. TIT

 

Yes, I just re-read the TRD english version and it specifically says ss and pensions can only be taxed by the US and that too will be my response if

I am contacted by the TRD to explain why I didn't get a Tax ID nor file taxes on the money I remitted this year to THailand.  I also have an LTR so shuldn't have to pay anything to them.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, Presnock said:

That is why many people will probably need a local tax agent who hopefully understands what the TRD will determine what is assessable or not or as others have suggested, go the the local DTR office (with a Thai speaker if you aren't fluent in Thai) and query their interpretation.

You'll certainly by more knowledgeable about your DTA than a mid level TRD clerk. So why ask him what's what -- since he'll probably not know, but being Thai, and thus never ever saying "I don't know," he'll give a wrong answer you won't like. Just read your DTA, and self assess accordingly. Thus, (for Yanks) all government pensions -- to include State and local govt pensions -- are taxable only by the US, same as Social Security. So, these payouts need never be mentioned, since they're non assessable; plus, there's no where on any form even to mention them, should you want to for some unreasonable reason. Thus, there's no number recorded anywhere that the TRD could be interested in, and so call you in for a chat. So, why would you want to waste time in a TRD office mentioning a number that needs no mentioning -- but to which a blank faced clerk utters an incorrect edict, but to which you now need to file a tax return....... Duh.

 

So, do your own self assessment, without involving TRD. For the US DTA, most is clear cut, to include: Don't declare govt pensions; but do declare remitted private pensions, to include IRAs and 401ks. For gray areas -- and you've a good, researched argument -- give yourself the advantage by not declaring it. Thus, there's no number on any tax return, should you have to file for other reasons, for the TRD to query. If, in the <1% chance you're called in for an audit, and the missing number comes up -- well, provide them with your well-researched logic. You may not win -- but you certainly would have -- hopefully -- shown you had 'good cause,'  and weren't a flagrant tax evader. [A good example would be a Roth IRA remittance. Roth came about after the US-Thai tax treaty was approved, thus no mention of it; but modern OECD Model tax treaties allow monies exempted by treaty country A to also necessarily be exempted by treaty country B. Take a look at the US-UK tax treaty technical report -- Roth IRAs are specifically addressed as not being taxable by the UK.]

 

Anyway, know your DTA; don't get a TIN if you don't need to; don't go chat with your neighborhood TRD office; and if your tax situation is simple to moderate, don't waste money on a Thai tax firm. At least not yet -- wait at least until the rules become so convoluted that your situation is no longer 'simple to moderate.'

[jwest10]

20 minutes ago, JimGant said:

You'll certainly by more knowledgeable about your DTA than a mid level TRD clerk. So why ask him what's what -- since he'll probably not know, but being Thai, and thus never ever saying "I don't know," he'll give a wrong answer you won't like. Just read your DTA, and self assess accordingly. Thus, (for Yanks) all government pensions -- to include State and local govt pensions -- are taxable only by the US, same as Social Security. So, these payouts need never be mentioned, since they're non assessable; plus, there's no where on any form even to mention them, should you want to for some unreasonable reason. Thus, there's no number recorded anywhere that the TRD could be interested in, and so call you in for a chat. So, why would you want to waste time in a TRD office mentioning a number that needs no mentioning -- but to which a blank faced clerk utters an incorrect edict, but to which you now need to file a tax return....... Duh.

 

So, do your own self assessment, without involving TRD. For the US DTA, most is clear cut, to include: Don't declare govt pensions; but do declare remitted private pensions, to include IRAs and 401ks. For gray areas -- and you've a good, researched argument -- give yourself the advantage by not declaring it. Thus, there's no number on any tax return, should you have to file for other reasons, for the TRD to query. If, in the <1% chance you're called in for an audit, and the missing number comes up -- well, provide them with your well-researched logic. You may not win -- but you certainly would have -- hopefully -- shown you had 'good cause,'  and weren't a flagrant tax evader. [A good example would be a Roth IRA remittance. Roth came about after the US-Thai tax treaty was approved, thus no mention of it; but modern OECD Model tax treaties allow monies exempted by treaty country A to also necessarily be exempted by treaty country B. Take a look at the US-UK tax treaty technical report -- Roth IRAs are specifically addressed as not being taxable by the UK.]

 

Anyway, know your DTA; don't get a TIN if you don't need to; don't go chat with your neighborhood TRD office; and if your tax situation is simple to moderate, don't waste money on a Thai tax firm. At least not yet -- wait at least until the rules become so convoluted that your situation is no longer 'simple to moderate.'

As a British Citizen apparently our  State pension could be taxed in Thailand but only of course if higher than the 560k threshold which of course included the 1st  exemption tax of 135K.
Yes, I too been advised to await a possible? confirmation but between  The Revenue, All the tax experts with differing opinions and of course the present Government  they have no clue on how this pans out.
I guess that those who do file and even that is not certain if the forms are available or a change in Government or PMm but then the Revenue then might start asking questions.
Who knows but the 3 areas seem to not have a clue!!
 

The crucial date is 1st Jan 2025 but think will not do anything but just prepare estimates.

 

Edited July 30 by jwest10

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

my special occasion is the 1st January each year

Very good. 

That is one of 2 yearly events where Thais do give gifts.

[Yumthai]

4 hours ago, Phulublub said:

Isnt that a bit head in the sand?  Waiting untit you see others being audited and then finding out you should have been fiing returns will be too late to file those returns and if and when it is your turn, you will be in for a nasty shock. 

I share the same opinion with the millions of Thai people who do not file nor pay tax: they believe in actions rather than words and comply only when directly confronted and asked by the authority because they know rules are inconsistent, barely enforced, and beyond all at the discretion of the empowered official they will have to deal with.

 

Thanks for your concern but I've been here long enough to know that the sky is never falling in Thailand.

 

But once again, to each their own.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

6 hours ago, dinga said:

Herein lies a potential problem - given the 'giftor' has a 50% interest in property obtained during the marriage, under the C&C Code.  Seems to me the TRD may well challenge the bona fides of at least 50% of the 'gifted' amount.  Again - prudent to obtain professional advice before proceeding  

That is where you really should read the revenue code section 3

https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html

you are inventing out of whole cloth a liability that does not exist. 

you should also read the Marriage and contracts concerning property of husband and wife is governed by the sections 1465 to 1469 of the Thailand Civil and Commercial Code.

there you will find that unless declared in writing at the time that the gift was given  to be Sin Somros that all gifts are personal property of the recipient and are  Sin Suan Tua.

so there you will find that even the simplest of reading shows that a true gift can never be considered by the TRD as party the property of anyone other than the recipient of the of the gift.

 

stop spreading FUD the Thai law on gifts within marriage is clear

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Phulublub said:

I will be looking at the new forms once they are available and if I have to file, I will - because my assessable income is made up of non-asseable pension and pre-2014 savings, I will not have any tax to pay.

The new forms are not going to change anything with the regard to filing a tax return.

 

Everyone who has consulted a financial advisor, tax accountant or the TRD in person has given the same answer 

1) You assess your income 

2) you decide if the income is exempt or assessable for taxation 

3) if you have no assessable income or if the income that is assessable is not more that the allowances and 150k zero band so means that you have no tax liability the TRD does not want you to file a tax return.

4) just because the TRD does not want you to file a tax return does not stop you filing one.

5) there could be reasons why you feel that a zero tax return is good for you

6) the only people that the TRD wants to file tax returns are those who owe the TRD tax 

[bkk6060]

7 hours ago, Presnock said:

I too have read the DTA between the US and Thailand - I only have seen US government pensions are taxed only by the US government but that other state pensions may not be taxed only by the US government.  To me the DTA allows the Thai Revenue Department to also tax non US government pensions.  Yes Social security also is totally taxed only by the US government IAW the DTA.  That is why many people will probably need a local tax agent who hopefully understands what the TRD will determine what is assessable or not or as others have suggested, go the the local DTR office (with a Thai speaker if you aren't fluent in Thai) and query their interpretation.  But from what I have read on this forum from those who have gone to the local TRD and asked any questions about interpretations based on the new interpretations, the local office reps have not been given any directions YET so maybe you can get an idea of what they will say or maybe not.  Some of the local tax agencies are responding to questions about the TRD and what might transpire based on their interactions wtih them previously.  Some of these agencies are responding to questions without needing to be paid, hoping to have a new client when 2025 rolls around.  Good luck.  

Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

 

 

I don't interpet this at all as you do.

It says government service and public pensions.  So. If a guy is a cop, fireman, local or state government attorney, or employee of a government entity they will be receiving a public or government service/public pension.

Seems the DTA covers any government worker anywhere in the USA who is receiving such a pension.

Edited July 30 by bkk6060

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, jwest10 said:

As a British Citizen apparently our  State pension could be taxed in Thailand but only of course if higher than the 560k threshold which of course included the 1st  exemption tax of 135K.

A rather poorly worded statement.

1) U.K. state pension are not exempt under the DTA

2) All U.K. pension income that is not exempt is assessable income 

3) all assessable income is subject to the Thai taxation rules

Q.E.D. the U.K. state pension is taxable in Thailand 

 

However if you need to pay tax is a different question and there the allowances and 150k zero band come into play

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, Presnock said:

Yes, I just re-read the TRD english version and it specifically says ss and pensions can only be taxed by the US and that too will be my response if

I am contacted by the TRD to explain why I didn't get a Tax ID nor file taxes on the money I remitted this year to THailand.  I also have an LTR so shuldn't have to pay anything to them.

At least this first year should be interesting with tax office officers having no idea what the different tax reciprocity Agreement are with dozens of countries. 

And if  the immigration offices and their different interpretations' and selective enforcement at different regions are  any indication, this should end up being a huge cluster fuk .

[Presnock]

47 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Subject to the provisions of paragraph 2 of Article 21 (Government Service), pensions and other similar remuneration paid to a resident of a Contracting State in consideration of past employment shall be taxable only in that State.

Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1, social security benefits and other similar public pensions paid by a Contracting State to a resident of the other Contracting State or a citizen of the United States shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State.

 

 

I don't interpet this at all as you do.

It says government service and public pensions.  So. If a guy is a cop, fireman, local or state government attorney, or employee of a government entity they will be receiving a public or government service/public pension.

Seems the DTA covers any government worker anywhere in the USA who is receiving such a pension.

fortunately for the Americans pensions and other ss are clearly stated as being taxed by US only.

[InlandSea]

After following this discussion for 50 pages and looking at the other discussions and videos in various corners of the Internet, I decided to not exceed 179 days in Thailand this year or next. This year it's been Malaysia, Philippines, and Vietnam. Next year it's Cambodia, Singapore, and Japan. I'm now trying to qualify for the LTR in 2026, so I can finally make Thailand my long-term retirement home. We shall see!

 

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, InlandSea said:

After following this discussion for 50 pages and looking at the other discussions and videos in various corners of the Internet, I decided to not exceed 179 days in Thailand this year or next. This year it's been Malaysia, Philippines, and Vietnam. Next year it's Cambodia, Singapore, and Japan. I'm now trying to qualify for the LTR in 2026, so I can finally make Thailand my long-term retirement home. We shall see!

 

Good luck.

I have half a dozen close friends five of them are not staying more then 180. I am staying, but don't blame those who want to go, wait and see.

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

At least this first year should be interesting with tax office officers having no idea what the different tax reciprocity Agreement are with dozens of countries. 

The regular tax officers do not need to know anything about the individual DTAs 

THAT is the beauty and terror of the Thai tax system! The individual tax payers have to decide, and remember and keep records, of what is assessable income and what is not, if they need to file a tax return or not.

 

So if Jo Bloggs decides that the income he is receiving from his stable of personal gratification ladies is covered by the Shireland DTA (approximately 200,000,000 baht equivalent) he does not mention it in his tax form, but he does declare the much smaller, in this case 2,000,000 baht equivalent commission he receives from his freelance lady delivery chauffeurs 

he has allowances totalling 350,000 so starts paying tax from 500,000 to 2,000,000 

 

it is only if, or when he is audited that he has to justify not paying tax on his total 202,000,000 income 

 

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

And if  the immigration offices and their different interpretations' and selective enforcement at different regions are  any indication, this should end up being a huge cluster fuk .

This is where the systems are totally different 

 

the immigration officers apply the rules

 

the TRD accepts your interpretation of the rules, until or unless they decide to audit you. Then YOU have to justify your interpretation and they may accept you have correctly decided your assessable income is 2,000,000 and your tax payment is correct or that the work of your personal gratification ladies is not covered by the Shireland DTA so you now owe 70,000,000 tax and possibly penalties as well. Then you can try to justify your reading of the Shireland DTA

 

TLDR any arguments or concerns may happen as late as 2034 when the audit clock runs out.

[sirineou]

15 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The regular tax officers do not need to know anything about the individual DTAs 

THAT is the beauty and terror of the Thai tax system! The individual tax payers have to decide, and remember and keep records, of what is assessable income and what is not, if they need to file a tax return or not.

 

So if Jo Bloggs decides that the income he is receiving from his stable of personal gratification ladies is covered by the Shireland DTA (approximately 200,000,000 baht equivalent) he does not mention it in his tax form, but he does declare the much smaller, in this case 2,000,000 baht equivalent commission he receives from his freelance lady delivery chauffeurs 

he has allowances totalling 350,000 so starts paying tax from 500,000 to 2,000,000 

 

it is only if, or when he is audited that he has to justify not paying tax on his total 202,000,000 income 

 

This is where the systems are totally different 

 

the immigration officers apply the rules

 

the TRD accepts your interpretation of the rules, until or unless they decide to audit you. Then YOU have to justify your interpretation and they may accept you have correctly decided your assessable income is 2,000,000 and your tax payment is correct or that the work of your personal gratification ladies is not covered by the Shireland DTA so you now owe 70,000,000 tax and possibly penalties as well. Then you can try to justify your reading of the Shireland DTA

 

TLDR any arguments or concerns may happen as late as 2034 when the audit clock runs out.

Thank you for that comprehensive explanation, I am learning a lot from these conversations. 

In Thailand they have a 10 year statute of limitations to audits? so I guess you have to keep 11 years of tax records.

In the US they usually  go  back 3 years but if they find any discrepancies they can go back an additional 3 years  , that's why we are advised to keep seven years of records. 

[Klonko]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Thank you for that comprehensive explanation, I am learning a lot from these conversations. 

In Thailand they have a 10 year statute of limitations to audits? so I guess you have to keep 11 years of tax records.

In the US they usually  go  back 3 years but if they find any discrepancies they can go back an additional 3 years  , that's why we are advised to keep seven years of records. 

If you file taxes, the 10 years are reduced to 3 years.

[stat]

4 hours ago, InlandSea said:

After following this discussion for 50 pages and looking at the other discussions and videos in various corners of the Internet, I decided to not exceed 179 days in Thailand this year or next. This year it's been Malaysia, Philippines, and Vietnam. Next year it's Cambodia, Singapore, and Japan. I'm now trying to qualify for the LTR in 2026, so I can finally make Thailand my long-term retirement home. We shall see!

 

It is not sure the LTR visa will provide for a tax exemption. BOI is since some weeks referring the indivdual to the local TRD regarding the tax exemption.

[stat]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Good luck.

I have half a dozen close friends five of them are not staying more then 180. I am staying, but don't blame those who want to go, wait and see.

Are those people with over over 50K or 100K USD income? My guess is the "income rich" falangs will leave and the normal pensioners will stay. For US guys it might be different as it seems their pension will not be taxed by TH.

Edited July 30 by stat

[sirineou]

8 hours ago, stat said:

For US guys it might be different as it seems their pension will not be taxed by TH.

Its now 7 months into the tax year and still we use terms like "seems" , maybe, perhaps.  TIT 

Though I love it here, and my life here is settled with our own home , gardens , cars and such, I am kind of hoping that my pensions in the US will be taxed, because I like it better in Greece and knowing how my Thai wife is with money, would finally convince her to agree and move there, especially now that my sister is moving there , with whom my wife is very good friends.

[Presnock]

12 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Its now 7 months into the tax year and still we use terms like "seems" , maybe, perhaps.  TIT 

Though I love it here, and my life here is settled with our own home , gardens , cars and such, I am kind of hoping that my pensions in the US will be taxed, because I like it better in Greece and knowing how my Thai wife is with money, would finally convince her to agree and move there, especially now that my sister is moving there , with whom my wife is very good friends.

Understand where you are coming from though I have no tax problems at all right now and don't anticipate any for the future.  But FYI the American Citizens Abroad has been lobbying the US congress to change tax requirements for US citizens working overseas so that they would only be taxed on US pensions or funds earned in the US, and not overseas earned income.  I do not know if that will help or have no effect on the expats here but at least some other folks are aware that being taxed by two countries can be troublesome in some ways.  Good luck.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Its now 7 months into the tax year and still we use terms like "seems" , maybe, perhaps.  TIT 

It is only those who haven’t read the rules and their DTA or read the rules and their DTA and don’t understand their meaning, (this is the majority unfortunately) that are using seems and maybe. 
 

The vast majority of foreigners understood the very limited rules they needed to know. They had not bothered to learn the things that didn’t affect them. This is completely normal and understandable.
 

Over time I have found that the vast majority don’t bother to read and throughly understand rules and regulations, they will usually just not have the interest or time.

 

All of this is if there is just one set of rules involved.

 

We now have about 63 sets to deal with!

individually people only have 3, but as a group it is 63 that along with the different allowances, different marital statuses different sources of income, different levels of income etc all mean that it is rather difficult, to say the least, that this is true for everyone.

 

Someone who is not just subsisting in Thailand (like yourself for a single example) will benefit hugely from a professional advisor and tax planner. Many of those individuals have already consulted with (or in my case will soon consult with) a suitable individual or company. 
 

I know of an individual who is remitting about 2.7 million Baht to Thailand annually who has no requirement to either pay tax or file a tax return, a different individual will have a 700,000 tax bill with the same level of remittances 

[sirineou]

26 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

We now have about 63 sets to deal with!

individually people only have 3, but as a group it is 63 that along with the different allowances, different marital statuses different sources of income, different levels of income etc all mean that it is rather difficult, to say the least, that this is true for everyone.

Perhaps for someone as intelligent as you it is all clear but unfortunately,  for the unwashed masses of the rest of us it is clear a mud.

 It seems to me that you keep saying that it is our fault for not understanding what The Tais have already put out there. 

  But  You seem to contradict yourself yourself with the above statement that seems to suggest that the regulations are not clear for everyone,  

I know what my DTA says, I can read,  but I don't know for sure , how the Thais will interpret those, I am sure this is true for other nationals also.  I have yet to  seen anywhere  anything pertaining to specific DTAs from  the Thais. 

How hard would it be to provide their  interpretation for at least the main main groups of expats living in Thailand if not for all of them ? 

But even if not , post a statement that all reciprocal tax agreements will be respected as stated in their Country's PDA . that way they dont have to do anything, because we all know how expensive labor is in thailand and to have someone sit down an compile such a list and then have someone else review it could cost hundreds of bahts  ( I am being facetious)

 Not go ahead and file, or ,not file. And we will see if you are right. 

What kind of banana republic attitude is this? 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

It seems to me that you keep saying that it is our fault for not understanding what The Tais have already put out there

Not at all.

 

there is the quote “I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for you.” — Edward I. Koch

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

Perhaps for someone as intelligent as you it is all clear

I make no claims of intelligence, it is just that I have always been able to read rules and follow exactly what was written. This has enabled me to write a program about 50 years ago that enabled me to calculate my tax and NI payments and so juggle the system to reduce the amounts paid to HMRC completely legally

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

You seem to contradict yourself yourself with the above statement that seems to suggest that the regulations are not clear for everyone,  

My statements are not contradictory. The regulations are clear, “I can explain it to you, but I can't comprehend it for you.” but that doesn’t mean that the majority can go through and understand them.

 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I know what my DTA says, I can read,  but I don't know for sure , how the Thais will interpret those, I am sure this is true for other nationals also.

That is why tax accountants tax advisors are in demand, since they know by experience.

 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I have yet to  seen anywhere  anything pertaining to specific DTAs from  the Thais. 

They don’t need to 

 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

How hard would it be to provide their  interpretation for at least the main main groups of expats living in Thailand if not for all of them ? 

Virtually impossible, hundreds of thousands of pages of documentation to cover the hundreds of thousands of individual circumstances.

That is why tax accountants tax advisors are in demand, since they know by experience.

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

But even if not , post a statement that all reciprocal tax agreements will be respected as stated in their Country's PDA

PDA?Personal digital assistant?

there is no need to say that the agreements will be respected because they already are being respected! 

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

go ahead and file, or ,not file. And we will see if you are right. 

I am going to visit a tax advisor. I am not going to share my decisions or their advice apart from the need to file a tax return if there is no tax due

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

What kind of banana republic attitude is this

Well we have at least 7 or 8 varieties of banana in our garden and access to another 15 or 20 so it’s a delicious one 😉 ☝️