Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[chiang mai]

55 minutes ago, RupertIII said:

I picked this up some time ago and assumed that a mutual fund was the USA term for an investment fund. However not so in Thailand - Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

 

You can find out further from https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section40 and search for mutual in your browser.

Thai mutual fund only I believe

[sidneybear]

22 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Not ridiculous at all, it's a fact. If you remit funds to Thailand from overseas, the BOT and your bank are aware of your identity. If those funds start to earn interest then tax is deducted which is passed along to the TRD, regardless of whether or not you have a TIN. All the pieces of the jigsaw are there, ready for anyone to join them up, if they so wish. That is not to suggest for one moment that TRD would necessarily do that today, whether or not they would remains an unknown to forum members who can only guess at the answer. The issue of resources is also a red herring since no forum member is aware of the resources available to TRD nor their priorities. 

 

The TRD could quite easily automate data matching, like they do in other countries. In Australia, for example, everything that I forgot to put on my tax return came back to bite me, with interest added.

 

People here who think they're invisible might be in for a rude awakening. 

[Lorry]

3 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

Article is a cut and paste repeat of the same article, posted in the BP on June 5th.

No, it's not.

I searched for the article from June 5th and found it using the BP site search function, its not the same article. 

Afaik I am not allowed to copy them both here, and it would be a boring exercise,  anyway. 

 

I advise everybody to ignore this troll.

 

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, Thailand J said:

Happy to see this.

This is new.

If this is true, plus the DTA which exempts US SSA benefits, and my LTR visa, I will have no tax to pay here.

The TRD's viewpoint as of now is "mutual funds means Thai mutual funds".

 

[TheAppletons]

2 hours ago, RupertIII said:

I picked this up some time ago and assumed that a mutual fund was the USA term for an investment fund. However not so in Thailand - Mutual fund means a body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company for a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare.

 

You can find out further from https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html#section40 and search for mutual in your browser.

 

  I didn't click the link because I believe you probably did a copypasta accurately.

 

  Remembering that we're working on an English translation from an original Thai language document, it's possible there is little or no difference in the definitions you described.

 

  "A body of persons who participate in a fund that is established and operated by an investment management company" - that's certainly what a USA mutual fund is.

 

  "For a project under the law governing the control of trading activities that affect public safety and welfare" could very well mean that the fund itself has legal oversight by a regulatory body that protects the interests of the investors (i.e., the US Securities and Exchange Commission.)

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

[anrcaccount]

25 minutes ago, Lorry said:

No, it's not.

I searched for the article from June 5th and found it using the BP site search function, its not the same article. 

Afaik I am not allowed to copy them both here, and it would be a boring exercise,  anyway. 

 

I advise everybody to ignore this troll.

 

 

Not trolling. The original article posted June 5 kicked off this thread 

 

 

There's nothing new in the article posted today and many of the words are the same. 

 

 

[Lorry]

17 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

There's nothing new in the article posted today

That's true. I have said that yesterday already. 

But that doesn't make it a copy and paste, as you misleadingly wrote.

BP may not be amused if people claim their articles are copy and paste. 

[Thailand J]

Bangkok Post article stated excluding income from "mutual funds investing  abroad."

 

I don't believe US mutual funds dont fit the Thai mutual fund definition so much so that they arent considered mutual funds.  

 

[chiang mai]

32 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

Bangkok Post article stated excluding income from "mutual funds investing  abroad."

 

I don't believe US mutual funds dont fit the Thai mutual fund definition so much so that they arent considered mutual funds.  

 

Thai mutual funds,not overseas funds

[ukrules]

7 hours ago, anrcaccount said:

 

Article is a cut and paste repeat of the same article, posted in the BP on June 5th.

 

Nothing new, no new information.

 

 

 

That's exactly what I was thinking - it contains nothing new at all - I have to wonder if they are simply rewriting and republishing old articles for clicks at this point.

 

[stat]

I read the mutual fund part in the BP differently. It is stated that only PIT is concerned so the mutual fund ITSELF as a fund does not have to pay (corporation or fund) taxes.

 

Sadly it seems they have not given up (yet) on their plan to tax all international income.

 

Which brings the LTR visa back in the limelight with its tax exemption on REMITTED income. So if ww taxation comes into place it is NOT assured that unremitted income will be exempted as well. BOI refuses a clear answer so far regarding unremitted income. This is just a current description of the situation. Be aware of the possible risks if you rely on LTR tax exemption for unremitted income in 2025.

[chiang mai]

Aw look, the posters confused and doesn't understand the difference between Thai mutual funds and overseas mutual funds.....probably shouldn't be investing in anything if that's the case!

[Thailand J]

6 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Aw look, the posters confused and doesn't understand the difference between Thai mutual funds and overseas mutual funds.....probably shouldn't be investing in anything if that's the case!

I read the Sept Bangkok Post article, did you?

Did you see mutual fund investing abroad?

 

Pause the youtube video below at 16:44.

 

 

[chiang mai]

Just now, Thailand J said:

I read the Sept Bangkok Post article, did you?

Did you see mutual fund investing abroad?

Yes I saw that. Do you understand the Thai Revenue Code only allows deductions/allowances against Thai Mutual Funds, that means a mutual fund raised and owned by a Thai bank or securities company and managed under Thai SEC rules, regardless of the securities contained in that fund? 

[bkk6060]

20 minutes ago, stat said:

Be aware of the possible risks if you rely on LTR tax exemption for unremitted income in 2025.

Yes, how foolish of those people to open their finances to the authorities here.  Some bragging how easily they qualified with their 100 k a year income.  They definitely would love to tax these high income folks.  Good luck, they know now no turning back.

[anrcaccount]

3 hours ago, Lorry said:

That's true. I have said that yesterday already. 

But that doesn't make it a copy and paste, as you misleadingly wrote.

BP may not be amused if people claim their articles are copy and paste. 

 

Are you really defending the journalistic integrity of the Bangkok Post?

 

Now that IS amusing. Surely that ship sailed a long time ago!!!

 

I honestly believe that no one was re interviewed, nothing new has come to light ( we agree on that) and there's nothing new to report.

 

IMO this is just a reprint of an older story with a few words changed, and, OK I'll concede,  it's not fully, but certainly partially copy and pasted!

 

 

 

 

[Thailand J]

3 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Yes I saw that. Do you understand the Thai Revenue Code only allows deductions/allowances against Thai Mutual Funds, that means a mutual fund raised and owned by a Thai bank or securities company and managed under Thai SEC rules, regardless of the securities contained in that fund? 

thats is true in the past, were talking about whats gonna happen according to  new statement on BP from someone from TRD.

[chiang mai]

3 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

thats is true in the past, were talking about whats gonna happen according to  new statement on BP from someone from TRD.

The discussion in the article is about taxing world income which means EVERY type of income would be taxable, in Thailand, for Thai Tax residents, not just overseas mutual funds, everything.

[Thailand J]

8 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The discussion in the article is about taxing world income which means EVERY type of income would be taxable, in Thailand, for Thai Tax residents, not just overseas mutual funds, everything.

In the article, Kulaya Tantitemit, the director-general of TRD stated income tax would not include income from mutual funds investing abroad.

 

Let the forum members read the article and make up their own mind, I don't like to dwell on this .bye.

 

 

 

.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

Yes I saw that. Do you understand the Thai Revenue Code only allows deductions/allowances against Thai Mutual Funds, that means a mutual fund raised and owned by a Thai bank or securities company and managed under Thai SEC rules, regardless of the securities contained in that fund? 

 

Typical mutual funds say from Bangkok Bank do not pay dividends, even if the funds hold foreign funds that do pay dividends.  Earnings are folded into the NAV.  Capital gains from THAI mutual funds are not taxed.

 

Makes sense to interpret the TRD statement as income from THAI mutual funds that invest overseas will be excluded, while income (dividends and gains) from foreign mutual funds (and ETF's) will be taxable.

 

Make a note that capital losses are NOT deductible in Thailand.  If TRD goes with worldwide income, you would owe tax on all your fund sales with no offset for losses.

 

Ouchies.

 

 

[gamb00ler]

On 9/6/2024 at 7:44 PM, Danderman123 said:

It is so easy for traffic police to stop someone riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

 

This is Thailand.

But... the helmetless motorcycle riders aren't a source of the government's revenue.  Without gov't revenue there will be no funds to be skimmed off to your account and your buddies.  Skinny brown envelopes all 'round.

[topt]

3 hours ago, Thailand J said:

would not include income from mutual funds investing abroad.

Reads, to me anyway, as a Thai Mutual fund investing abroad - IE based in Thailand but investing outside Thailand. But maybe something got lost in the translation..............

 

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

Makes sense to interpret the TRD statement as income from THAI mutual funds that invest overseas will be excluded, while income (dividends and gains) from foreign mutual funds (and ETF's) will be taxable.

Agreed in the absence of any further qualification. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

The TRD's viewpoint as of now is "mutual funds means Thai mutual funds".

 

True - but in most DTAs there is a Clause that states all non-Thai tax residents must be subjected to the same tax rules and tax benefits as Thais (Non Discrimination).  I am not saying that Somchai in the local TRD Office will automatically accept that, but it is what is in the DTAs.   

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 9/1/2024 at 4:35 PM, KhunHeineken said:

Can you clarify who, exactly, you think is right, and who is wrong, and about what?

 

Below is Andrew Rigney's basic CV.  He appears to be well qualified and experienced. 

 

https://www.rbwca.com.au

 

Andrew C Rigney B Com, Dip Law (LPAB) FCA

 

Andrew joined the firm in 1998 while conducting his undergraduate studies at Macquarie University and became a partner in 2008. He is a tax and corporate business advisor across small/medium businesses, international subsidiaries and high net worth family groups. Andrew provides advice in all areas of taxation, structuring, asset protection and succession.

Andrew’s client base covers a wide range of industries including medical, construction, professional services, the legal profession and the not-for-profit sector.

Andrew holds a Bachelor in Commerce (Accounting) from Macquarie University and a Diploma of Law through the Legal Professions Admissions Board (formerly SAB). He was admitted as a Chartered Accountant in 2003 and advanced to fellowship in 2015.

 

Here's Carl Turner.

https://www.expattaxthailand.com

MEET CARL TURNER

 

Carl Turner is the co-founder of Expat Tax Thailand. With his extensive background in international personal finance, Carl is dedicated to offering clear, transparent, and tailored tax guidance. Motivated by a desire to simplify tax matters, Carl leads a team of TFAC-registered qualified accountants and dedicated customer support specialists committed to ensuring our clients receive personalised service that makes navigating Thailand’s tax regulations straightforward and stress-free.

 

Can you post your qualifications and experience so your "opinions" can be assessed for accuracy?  

 

Could it be because, maybe, just maybe, they will actually have to pay tax in Thailand, thus, now need professional advice? 

I think you should watch it and read it again.  No exemption for aged pensions.  Some government occupational pensions are exempt, but not the aged pension.

Remember, Article 18 relies on the provisions of Article 19, and Article 19 sets out government occupational pensions, not the aged pension. 

 

I've never accused you of lying, but I didn't see the screenshot.  Can you post it again please? 

 

Sure.  Go back in January 2024 and your answer MAY be different.  "TIT" right? 

 

Yes, but they are YOUR "views" and "opinions."  Can you post links, quotes, youtube videos etc from professionals that back up your views and opinions? 

 

Do you think your views and opinions hold as much weight as the many professionals that have been quoted  on the topic by many members of this forum? 

 

I decided to also give you another answer besides -  Yes No No Yes etc.

As per the below notice to members - opinions are not facts , and if you want 'proof' go see a tax specialist.

 

 

 

 

[stat]

4 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Yes, how foolish of those people to open their finances to the authorities here.  Some bragging how easily they qualified with their 100 k a year income.  They definitely would love to tax these high income folks.  Good luck, they know now no turning back.

Thai RD knows anyway via CRS the value of your holdings as the max account/portfolio value is transfered anually if you are a tax resident. What I meant was make sure that you do not have substantial cap gains in 2025 when it is unclear if unremitted income will be taxed even if you are holding an LTR visa. Also be carefull regarding remitted income in 2024 as it is only 99% sure that this income will not be taxed if you hold an LTR visa.

 

Godspeed to us all on this bumpy ride!

 

 

[stat]

2 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Typical mutual funds say from Bangkok Bank do not pay dividends, even if the funds hold foreign funds that do pay dividends.  Earnings are folded into the NAV.  Capital gains from THAI mutual funds are not taxed.

 

Makes sense to interpret the TRD statement as income from THAI mutual funds that invest overseas will be excluded, while income (dividends and gains) from foreign mutual funds (and ETF's) will be taxable.

 

Make a note that capital losses are NOT deductible in Thailand.  If TRD goes with worldwide income, you would owe tax on all your fund sales with no offset for losses.

 

Ouchies.

 

 

Good post! Not sure if someone in his right mind would want to invest in a thai mutual fund instead of an SPX or QQQ etc. Maybe I am mistaken and the Thai Banks have great cost and tax effective ETFs, if yes please educate me. Even then the risk is there that in the case of an economic turmoil they impose capital controls etc (remember Malaysia?).

[NoDisplayName]

13 minutes ago, stat said:

Good post! Not sure if someone in his right mind would want to invest in a thai mutual fund instead of an SPX or QQQ etc. Maybe I am mistaken and the Thai Banks have great cost and tax effective ETFs, if yes please educate me. Even then the risk is there that in the case of an economic turmoil they impose capital controls etc (remember Malaysia?).

 

No.  They do not.  Thai mutual funds mostly seem to be western mutual funds purchased and held in a plain brown Thai wrapper.

 

You get to pay the base fund fees PLUS the management fees from the Thai bank, plus sometimes front-end loads and switching fees.

 

Buy Indian stocks?  Bualuang Bharata Fund from Bangkok Bank holds RAMS Investment Unit Trust -
India Equities Portfolio Fund II.

 

Maybe it makes sense.  Would have to run the numbers, see if remitting non-assessable funds to Thailand and buying from the very limited universe of mutual funds without capital gains tax vs. buying in home country with taxable capital gains.

 

 

 

 

[Danderman123]

I withdrew cash from an ATM in the US using my Bangkok Bank ATM card.

 

Since I was remitting money from Thailand abroad, does that reduce the basis for my accessible income?

[Lorry]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

True - but in most DTAs there is a Clause that states all non-Thai tax residents must be subjected to the same tax rules and tax benefits as Thais (Non Discrimination).  I am not saying that Somchai in the local TRD Office will automatically accept that, but it is what is in the DTAs.   

The idea not to discriminate against foreigners will sound  very weird to Somchai

[Danderman123]

1 hour ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

True - but in most DTAs there is a Clause that states all non-Thai tax residents must be subjected to the same tax rules and tax benefits as Thais (Non Discrimination).  I am not saying that Somchai in the local TRD Office will automatically accept that, but it is what is in the DTAs.   

If you are dealing with Somchai in the local TRD, you're dead anyways.

 

The point is to legally avoid such encounters.