Thai gov. to tax (remitted) income from abroad for tax residents starting 2024 - Part II

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:28 AM, chiang mai said:

 

The trolling by you three has been going on for months and is getting real old, real fast, it takes any enjoyment out of trying to participate and help folks with tax questions. You're having too much fun to quit or to leave so I guess the only way to escape it and preserve the discussion on tax is for me to go, which appears to be what you want. The last time I quit the forum was about seven years ago, because of trolls and idiots, it seems that some things here never change.

 

I hope you feel proud of your achievements. 

Jumping in a little late here, but it seems very obvious to me (deleted)

[TroubleandGrumpy]

19 hours ago, chiang mai said:

And you know what, its always the same three or four people, you and three others, the rest of the membership is silent, why is that?

I am just get back involved in this thread as the topics became repetitive and boring, but this does interest me.  Question - how do you know about (deleted)

[topt]

2 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I am just get back involved in this thread as the topics became repetitive and boring, but this does interest me.  Question - how do you know about the issues ML with 3/4 posters?

Did you not read the mods request and then warning?

 

If you have a beef can you do it by PM please as it is just distracting from any other possible pertinent info . Thanks.

[TroubleandGrumpy]

On 10/11/2024 at 1:51 AM, K2938 said:

Any views on the likelihood of Thailand actually going ahead with the announced plan to not only tax remitted, but global income regardless of remittance?  Thanks.

IMO it will happen, but only for Thai Citizens and Permanent Residents - as is the case with most other modern countries. What has been happening is that wealthy Thais have been 'making money' overseas through investments, and then prior to this year they paid no income taxes when they brought the money into Thailand - thus the rule change. Those wealthy Thais have put plans in place to circumvent this new rule, and TRD sees this move to global taxation as a way to reduce their ability to avoid income taxes here. 

 

But will Thailand screw it up and not ensure it only applies to Citizens and Residents - perhaps and probably. I am hopeful that the new PT Govt will have more 'business acumen' that the previous idiots, and realise that if they want foreign firms to invest here in the future, they must not tax the global income of the executives of foreign companies that work here.

 

I also think that the wealthy Thais will be using the family 'gifts' tax exemption (as have some Expats) to avoid income taxes, and that will probably be reviewed in the future too. 

[TroubleandGrumpy]

12 minutes ago, topt said:

Did you not read the mods request and then warning?

 

If you have a beef can you do it by PM please as it is just distracting from any other possible pertinent info . Thanks.

Obviously not - I wrote .... quote "I am just get back involved in this thread as the topics became repetitive and boring,"  You are boring me again.

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, Ricohoc said:

 

This makes more sense.

 

"Spending isn't taxable."

Seriously?  That really makes sense to you? 

 

So it doesn't matter how/where the money came from as long as it's spent then it's not taxable?

 

I give up trying to even begin to explain it so have at it... 

[Ricohoc]

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I give up 

 

Might be a good idea.

[Srikcir]

On 5/19/2024 at 4:37 PM, Middle Aged Grouch said:

Will banks start to deduct tax at source on every foreigners bank account even if the foreigner does not stay more then 180 days ?

I don't think it's possible as a bank needs the account holder's tax bracket. Withheld income tax of earned interest I think is just a flat percent regardless of tax bracket. 

[Rich the Robin]

Thank you Mike, for all your hard work here.  What’s is the ‘feeling’ on how inherited money (UK family estate) will be viewed under the WW Tax. What I’ve sourced suggests if estate (legacy) is under 100M THB (£2M GBP) then no tax would apply. Would you agree?  

[Ricohoc]

38 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

I don't think it's possible as a bank needs the account holder's tax bracket. Withheld income tax of earned interest I think is just a flat percent regardless of tax bracket. 

 

I agree with you based on what I am reading today, but . . . 

 

TIT.  They could tax it at the highest rate and then force you to claw an amount back with proof when you file.

[chiang mai]

6 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

I agree with you based on what I am reading today, but . . . 

 

TIT.  They could tax it at the highest rate and then force you to claw an amount back with proof when you file.

That's a scenario that is beyond paranoia!

 

 

[Ricohoc]

16 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

That's a scenario that is beyond paranoia!

 

 

 

Anything is possible in the 21st century when it comes to taxes, money, governments and banks.

 

I don't fear it, but I have been conditioned in 15 years here to expect anything.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, Ricohoc said:

 

Anything is possible in the 21st century when it comes to taxes, money, governments and banks.

 

I don't fear it, but I have been conditioned in 15 years here to expect anything.

Well I've been here over twenty years and I haven't been conditioned in the same way. In fact, if anything, I have learned over time to understand that Thailand is nowhere near as bad as many expats made out when I first moved here.  Expats talk a lot and loudly about the frequent changes and lack of stability but in reality there are very few changes that negatively affect them personally. Most of the noise is usually people expressing a fear that something negative could happen but rarely does it ever materialise. I think this says more about the people making the noise than it does about the country.

[RupertIII]

29 minutes ago, Rich the Robin said:

Thank you Mike, for all your hard work here.  What’s is the ‘feeling’ on how inherited money (UK family estate) will be viewed under the WW Tax. What I’ve sourced suggests if estate (legacy) is under 100M THB (£2M GBP) then no tax would apply. Would you agree?  

That would appear to be correct, see below.  My wife queried this when she was at the tax office earlier this year and they appeared to confirm and asked if there was documentary evidence to support.

 

The Inheritance Tax Act B.E. 2558 (2015) (“ITA”) took effect on 1^st of February 2016. It stipulates the following:

1. Inheritance Tax

a. Tax Base

The inheritance tax base shall be calculated from the inheritance, which an inheritor received from each testator, whether it is received once or several times, above 100 Million THB. (Section 12, ITA). The value of the inheritance subject to tax means the value of the asset received as an inheritance offset by the liabilities inherited.

The tax is levied on inheritors who are:

1.    Thai individuals or Thai juristic persons or foreign individuals who are resident in Thailand according to the immigration law, which inheriting assets located in Thailand and outside the country.

2.    Foreign individuals or foreign juristic persons, which inherit assets located in Thailand. (Section 11, ITA)

The spouse of the testator is exempted from inheritance tax. (Section 3(2), ITA)

Foreigners who are resident in Thailand, shall be liable to pay Inheritance Tax in the portion which exceed 100 million THB, calculated from the inherited assets in Thailand and foreign countries. Foreigner who are non-resident in Thailand, shall be liable to pay Inheritance Tax in the portion which exceed 100 million THB, calculated from only inheriting asset in Thailand.

The inheritance tax rate is 10%, except in the case of heirs who are ascendants or descendants of the testator, where the rate is 5%. Legacies received by the spouse of a testator are exempt from the tax.

The inheritance tax applies to registered assets, including residential properties, land, vehicles, bonds, equities, and deposits at financial institutions. (Section 14, ITA)

[chiang mai]

There's a section on Inheritance in the guide which is linked below, along with a couple of links.:

 

INHERITANCE TAX 

 

78) "Heirs are subject to the inheritance tax only on the value of a legacy that exceeds THB 100 million obtained from each testator together either once or on several occasions. The inheritance tax rate is 10%, except in the case of heirs who are ascendants or descendants of the testator, where the rate is 5%. Legacies received by the spouse of a testator are exempt from the tax". 

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes  

 

https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/other-taxes 

 

 

 

[Presnock]

4 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Well I've been here over twenty years and I haven't been conditioned in the same way. In fact, if anything, I have learned over time to understand that Thailand is nowhere near as bad as many expats made out when I first moved here.  Expats talk a lot and loudly about the frequent changes and lack of stability but in reality there are very few changes that negatively affect them personally. Most of the noise is usually people expressing a fear that something negative could happen but rarely does it ever materialise. I think this says more about the people making the noise than it does about the country.

Agree.  I have lived in Thailand more than 30 years total.  Been through a lot of coups.  But one of the biggest complaints by expats is the immigration - Many changes have been made since I retired here in 2005 and got Retirement O visa.   At one time we would have to arrive at CM immigration (some more than 8 hours) but at least 4 hours of waiting in a queue just to get a queue number for the same day.  After getting the queue number, when they broke at lunch they would advise that some that had been waiting hours, that they needed to come back the following day.  Used to have to show up for the 90-day report, now on line.  Used to have a TM 28 for expat to show a move to differentt location; they stopped that and then made the expat responsible mostly for the TM30 and now that too can be done on line.  New visas have shown up - many just this year.  Glad the LTR came up and not so many signed on so they dropped the price by 50% (50K baht!).  Then the OECD agreement of July 2023 and taxes changed and possibly to change even more.  Elections  last year and now 2 PM's gone, possbly a third but all in all, Thailand remains a great place for my retirement.  By switching to LTR no more 90-day reports for the next 10 years.  Food remains great here with even more variety no matter what kind of food one likes,.  Used to be no western foods as all except one Villamart. Baht has changed too over the years and we get a better rate now than we used to but not as good as the late 90's.

All in all, still a paradise for me and my family.  Schooling for daughter going well and a lot cheaper and if she so desires, she can get a great paying job in the US or elsewhere.  Weather too is changing but no one controls that but I did hear on the US news broadcast this morning that the MAGA crowd is claiming that the DEMS are controlling the weather so that Republican states are suffering these horrendous hurricanes.  (I am not joking, I saw several US news (YOUTUBE) broadcasts this morning.)  For those looking to move, I read this morning that Panama is a tax haven and the weather is great too.

[Ricohoc]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Thailand is nowhere near as bad as many expats made out 

 

I never said it was bad. If my experiences were negative, I wouldn't still be here.  I still expect anything.

[Phulublub]

4 hours ago, jayboy said:

As to credit cards, the debate is surely not whether transactions with a foreign card are assessable (it looks as though most may be unless paid for with non assessable funds) but whether there the slightest chance of TRD monitoring/taking action on these transactions.

Disagree.  I can think of several ways of gaming the system, with various levels of legality.  Here, we should (IMV) concern ourselves only with the law, not how or how well or how widely it is enforced, nor the possibilties of being caught. 

 

If one travels regularly, one could easily (and legally) bring in a large quantity of cash each trip and exchange here (using a local Thai friend if necessary) to leave absolutely no paper trail of remitted funds on which you might be taxed.  The remittance is legal, the exchange mechanism dubious, the non reporting (if assessable income) illegal...  individuals will, as ever, choose their own path.

 

PH

[Thingamabob]

I should be grateful if someone who is well-informed on this subject could indicate whether or not this new legislation has been ratified or. if not, when it will be ratified.

[Ricohoc]

10 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

I should be grateful if someone who is well-informed on this subject could indicate whether or not this new legislation has been ratified or. if not, when it will be ratified.

 

It is my understanding that nothing has been finalized as of yet.

[chiang mai]

10 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

I should be grateful if someone who is well-informed on this subject could indicate whether or not this new legislation has been ratified or. if not, when it will be ratified.

There is no new legislation, only the reinterpretation of an existing rule which was made effective last November.

[jwest10]

22 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I deny being Santa Claus too. 🙂

Once again many thanks go out to you Chaing Mai and a few others and yes on another topic completely was discussing modern technology with my Granddaughter who os what ahead but thanks so much chaing Mai

[Thingamabob]

24 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

There is no new legislation, only the reinterpretation of an existing rule which was made effective last November.

So is the reinterpretation being applied/effected or, if not. when will it be applied/effected ? 

[Thingamabob]

55 minutes ago, Ricohoc said:

 

It is my understanding that nothing has been finalized as of yet.

Many thanks. My understanding also.

[Lorry]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Well I've been here over twenty years and I haven't been conditioned in the same way. In fact, if anything, I have learned over time to understand that Thailand is nowhere near as bad as many expats made out when I first moved here.  Expats talk a lot and loudly about the frequent changes and lack of stability but in reality there are very few changes that negatively affect them personally. Most of the noise is usually people expressing a fear that something negative could happen but rarely does it ever materialise. I think this says more about the people making the noise than it does about the country.

For me, personally, the difference is huge. 

 

20 years ago, I spent time with a Thai bureaucrat exactly 10 minutes per year.

Including preparation and travel times, 30 - 45 minutes (measured, not guessed).

Now, it's a regular occurrence and I spend about 10% of my time with Thai bureaucracy (estimated - a friend estimates 10-15%). Mostly immigration,  but there are others, too. Travel to CW is a day trip, every ~75 days (not 90 - and please don't tell me about the 90days-online-fairy). Preparation,  including reading up on their latest whims, and producing tons of photocopies, takes ages.

 

I do not enjoy this.

 

Now, with taxation, I can imagine this to increase to 20%.

It's a worst case scenario,  but if it really gets so bad I will consider my options. 

 

[jwest10]

On 10/11/2024 at 9:28 AM, chiang mai said:

 

The trolling by you three has been going on for months and is getting real old, real fast, it takes any enjoyment out of trying to participate and help folks with tax questions. You're having too much fun to quit or to leave so I guess the only way to escape it and preserve the discussion on tax is for me to go, which appears to be what you want. The last time I quit the forum was about seven years ago, because of trolls and idiots, it seems that some things here never change.

 

I hope you feel proud of your achievements. 

just block them and again thank you so much for all of us and I really appreciate it very much

 

[Ricohoc]

8 minutes ago, Lorry said:

Now, with taxation, I can imagine this to increase to 20%.

It's a worst case scenario,  but if it really gets so bad I will consider my options. 

 

 

I am 99.999% sure that I will be tax free -- unless there's a new wrench thrown in the mix -- but I'm investigating northwestern Laos just in case.

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

So is the reinterpretation being applied/effected or, if not. when will it be applied/effected ? 

Yes, it became effective 1 January this year.

[Mike Teavee]

4 hours ago, Ricohoc said:

 

Might be a good idea.

Sarcasm or not, I think you're right... 

 

 

[Yumthai]

18 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I do think the rules around “Gifts” must be a lot more complicated than you’ve suggested, otherwise anybody with parents/kids/siblings in their home country would never pay Tax in Thailand. 

I'm not suggesting, just read Thai gift rules it's pretty straightforward. The intention or purpose behind the gift is never mentioned in the Law.

 

Gifting relatives is very common in Thailand. For instance, Thai nationals residing abroad (can) send regularly money to their parents/kids in Thailand, legally tax-free (under 20M THB/ year) for the receiver.