Brexit Tensions Resurface Amid Starmer's Push for Youth Mobility Scheme

[MarkBR]

12 hours ago, JonnyF said:

The guy is tone deaf. As if he hasn't upset enough people he now wants to start stoking the fires of Brexit all over again.

 

We've had the plethora of bribes from Lord Alli, the 20 Billion "black hole" that they cannot give details on, the removal of the pensioners fuel allowance, the hiking of school fees, and now he wants to prod the 52% that voted for Brexit.

 

All of this before what is sure to be a money grabbing, tax hiking budget. 

 

What a disaster. 

 

 

Brexit was disaster for Britain, depriving young people of opportunities, and British business is now strangled by red tape because we are no longer part of the EU, we are a country outside of the EU.  We are losing billions of Pounds.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So not a will of the people type after all.

 

2016 + 41 = 2057.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More important than fixing the UK’s relationship with its closest and most important trading partner?

 

It's not just a trading partner - that's the problem.

[nauseus]

32 minutes ago, 3STTW said:

Back when I were a lad (groan), you could get an Interail ticket and travel free around Europe for a month for ~110 quid. I did it four times from age 15 - 18 and I leaned more in those 4 months than my entire school career. Travel broadens the mind isn't just a cliché. And this all happened before the Treaties for Maastricht, Lisbon, open borders and the introduction of the Euro. The EEC was just a price fixing coal and steel cartel.

In terms of mobility, my youth was diametrically opposite to the youth of today who have suffered years in lockdown, resulting in a generation of meek, fragile daisies whose only salvation in life is government benefits.

So, yes, youth mobility is important.

As far as the UK rejoining the EU, it's not going to happen. The EU economic model has collapsed - in exactly the same way that economists were predicting 15 years ago. Germany's manufacturing core has imploded and the French are on an express train to bankruptcy.

The only reason why the EU would accept the UK back into the fold would be it's deep pockets and, thanks to Covid, those days are gone. Any hope that the UK economy is going to regain it's foothold is being rapidly deconstructed by Starmer, Reeves and Milliband with their boneheaded Marxist whims and their penchant for ideological policy over fact-based economic sense.

 

Yes, agree, that's part of what I meant when I mentioned price. Plus we would have to lose the Pound - it is sick but it is ours.

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, MarkBR said:

Brexit was disaster for Britain, depriving young people of opportunities, and British business is now strangled by red tape because we are no longer part of the EU, we are a country outside of the EU.  We are losing billions of Pounds.

 

And all that red tape comes from?? Most of it was only created as means of controls and revenue for the damn EU. 

[frank83628]

5 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Many of the people who voted for Brexit have changed their minds.

 

 

 

 

about 6

[Chomper Higgot]

19 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

And all that red tape comes from?? Most of it was only created as means of controls and revenue for the damn EU. 

UK exporters were not subject to any of it before Brexit.

 

And no not to control revenue, to control quality and level field of trading across the world’s largest developed integrated market.

 

[3STTW]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

UK exporters were not subject to any of it before Brexit.

 

And no not to control revenue, to control quality and level field of trading across the world’s largest developed integrated market.

 

Internalising markets, whether in a sole country or a cartel, has been proven, many times, to be a disaster. Thanks to this policy, the EU is so far behind in terms of economic flexibility, energy production and technology, it can no longer catch up.

The EU model was predicated on a "United States of Europe", in spite of the introduction of the Euro, the bloc has failed to introduce a common taxation framework and establish a bank of last resort. The ECB is basically a dead flogged horse that has no power to exert the fiscal controls necessary to moderate the EU's diverse economic structure.

And that structure is literally falling apart, on the news, every day.

Since Brexit, the UK economy has diversified and expanded into numerous global markets. The banking industry is regretting their move to Paris and Frankfurt and are moving back to London, there's British seafood products on sale in Japan at $100/kg and the "beleaguered" car industry is doing just fine. And so on.

The only thing that will scupper this success is the Labour government and the incoherent net-zero ideology of the fu*kwit Ed Milliband. With UK energy prices approaching 4x it's neighbours, that genius has just denied the UK any chance of leveling the playing field by cancelling the UK's only energy safety net. With a net global emissions reduction of about 0.001%. Stupid c**t.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, 3STTW said:

 

Internalising markets, whether in a sole country or a cartel, has been proven, many times, to be a disaster. Thanks to this policy, the EU is so far behind in terms of economic flexibility, energy production and technology, it can no longer catch up.

The EU model was predicated on a "United States of Europe", in spite of the introduction of the Euro, the bloc has failed to introduce a common taxation framework and establish a bank of last resort. The ECB is basically a dead flogged horse that has no power to exert the fiscal controls necessary to moderate the EU's diverse economic structure.

And that structure is literally falling apart, on the news, every day.

Since Brexit, the UK economy has diversified and expanded into numerous global markets. The banking industry is regretting their move to Paris and Frankfurt and are moving back to London, there's British seafood products on sale in Japan at $100/kg and the "beleaguered" car industry is doing just fine. And so on.

The only thing that will scupper this success is the Labour government and the incoherent net-zero ideology of the fu*kwit Ed Milliband. With UK energy prices approaching 4x it's neighbours, that genius has just denied the UK any chance of leveling the playing field by cancelling the UK's only energy safety net. With a net global emissions reduction of about 0.001%. Stupid c**t.

 

Just one of many examples of what you are missing:

 

“Zoom out from trade and look at total business investment across the entire UK economy, and two things jump out: first, it suddenly stopped going up after the 2016 referendum; second, we have failed to see a vigorous bounce back from Covid. Post-lockdown and post-hard Brexit, business investment is 10 per cent down on 2019, and vastly down on where it would have been if pre-2016 expansion had continued. “
 

And let’s have another for good measure:

 

“New report reveals UK economy is almost £140billion smaller because of Brexit”

 

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/38650/the-true-economic-cost-of-brexit-is-finally-becoming-clear?gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAAp9SDIs7REsUcp2tsaeBDXIP7zIXN&gclid=CjwKCAjwgfm3BhBeEiwAFfxrG42x9VIq5ZSL21l8l2ePWouIT5Wk0yC93orFOIRR5k5yMMEPF7ONYxoCPN0QAvD_BwE

 

https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-reveals-uk-economy-almost-ps140billion-smaller-because-brexit

Edited October 3 by Chomper Higgot

[candide]

1 hour ago, 3STTW said:

 

Internalising markets, whether in a sole country or a cartel, has been proven, many times, to be a disaster. Thanks to this policy, the EU is so far behind in terms of economic flexibility, energy production and technology, it can no longer catch up.

The EU model was predicated on a "United States of Europe", in spite of the introduction of the Euro, the bloc has failed to introduce a common taxation framework and establish a bank of last resort. The ECB is basically a dead flogged horse that has no power to exert the fiscal controls necessary to moderate the EU's diverse economic structure.

And that structure is literally falling apart, on the news, every day.

Since Brexit, the UK economy has diversified and expanded into numerous global markets. The banking industry is regretting their move to Paris and Frankfurt and are moving back to London, there's British seafood products on sale in Japan at $100/kg and the "beleaguered" car industry is doing just fine. And so on.

The only thing that will scupper this success is the Labour government and the incoherent net-zero ideology of the fu*kwit Ed Milliband. With UK energy prices approaching 4x it's neighbours, that genius has just denied the UK any chance of leveling the playing field by cancelling the UK's only energy safety net. With a net global emissions reduction of about 0.001%. Stupid c**t.

 

What a success! 😀

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

[RayC]

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

 

Internalising markets, whether in a sole country or a cartel, has been proven, many times, to be a disaster. Thanks to this policy, the EU is so far behind in terms of economic flexibility, energy production and technology, it can no longer catch up.

 

I disagree completely. Where are these many proven examples? Where is the evidence that the Single Market has had a negative effect on flexibility(?), energy production and technology within the EU?

 

Far from being a disaster, the Single Market has been an overwhelming success. The free movement of goods, services, capital and human resources  have all stimulated economic growth.

 

In addition, the combined value of the Single Market means that the EU has a far superior position compared to the UK when it comes to negotiating external trade deals.

 

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

 

The EU model was predicated on a "United States of Europe", in spite of the introduction of the Euro, the bloc has failed to introduce a common taxation framework and establish a bank of last resort. The ECB is basically a dead flogged horse that has no power to exert the fiscal controls necessary to moderate the EU's diverse economic structure.

 

The EU model was not predicated on a "United States of Europe", and the very fact that it operates outside of this model proves that federalism is not a necessary condition for its' existence 

 

However, you do have a point wrt the ECB. Whilst I wouldn't go as far as to say that the ECB is "a dead flogged horse", it is certainly far from a Derby winner. The ECB has been largely successful in controlling inflation throughout its' existence, but it was almost completely ineffective when it came to regulatory matters for the first 15 years of irs' existence. It is now more proactive in this regard.

 

The elephant in the ECB's room is not so much its' lack of fiscal tools but the single currency itself. The introduction and implementation of the Euro was completely blotched. Whether the fiscal and monetary rules governing the implementation of the Euro would have been sufficient to allow to be a success is highly debatable. What is incontestable is that having developed rules to then disregard them completely was an act of wanton irresponsibility, and the member states continue to pay the price today.

 

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

 

And that structure is literally falling apart, on the news, every day.

 

?

 

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

Since Brexit, the UK economy has diversified and expanded into numerous global markets. The banking industry is regretting their move to Paris and Frankfurt and are moving back to London, there's British seafood products on sale in Japan at $100/kg and the "beleaguered" car industry is doing just fine. And so on.

 

You supply no evidence to support the rhetoric. Where and how has the UK economy diversified since Brexit? The UK is still reliant on services, in particular the Financial Services sector.

 

Whilst it is true that some banks are re-locating their HQs back to the UK, during the period 2018 and 2021, there was an 18% decrease in financial services exports to the EU, with only a 4% increase in exports to non-EU countries to offset it. This is in addition to the exodus of capital in the immediate aftermath of the referendum.

 

Wrt goods. There has been no significant upturn in manufacturing in the UK, and the much promised trade deals with the US, China, India, etc - which were supposedly going to be so simple to conclude outside of the EU - remain nothing more than a figment of a Brexiter's imagination.

 

2 hours ago, 3STTW said:

The only thing that will scupper this success is the Labour government and the incoherent net-zero ideology of the fu*kwit Ed Milliband. With UK energy prices approaching 4x it's neighbours, that genius has just denied the UK any chance of leveling the playing field by cancelling the UK's only energy safety net. With a net global emissions reduction of about 0.001%. Stupid c**t.
 

 

If this is success then the sooner the Labour government scupper it, the better.

[RayC]

12 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

I think 3 months is enough time to see where he wants to go!

 

The direction of travel will be (largely) dictated by the cost. Maybe all will become clearer after the budget 

[RayC]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

 

2016 + 41 = 2057.

 

Year the first Brexit benefit appears?

 

If so, you are clearly more optimistic than Jacob Rees-Moog; he reckons that it was will take 70 years for the benefits to become obvious.

[RayC]

14 hours ago, John Drake said:

Youth Mobility Scheme sounds like a way for France and Germany to unload their migrants on to the UK

 

Can you explain how?

[RayC]

Why the opposition to this proposal?

 

It is very limited in its' scope. It does not form part of a broader immigration strategy. It merely offers youngsters the opportunity to have a different cultural experience ... oh, hold on ..... I might have answered my question: We don't want to run the risk of any of that dirty continental culture finding its' way into our pure British culture, do we?

[soi3eddie]

 

European immigration into the UK was never the problem. Anyone who voted out on that belief was wrong. Now look at the situation we are in. Brits can't even live in Europe easily anymore (not that it bothers me when Thailand is an easier option) and I never wanted to retire in Europe. The controls and laws of the European Union were the issue for me but were adopted entirely and not rescinded. Theresa May and David Davies scuppered any kind of fair deal. Boris got the Brexit done but on terms that are harmful to the UK. I blame the government headed by May for the disaster that has ensued. It's been done now. Europe has always played us and won. Nothing will change. Thailand is the answer for so many of us Brits. Who here wants to live in Europe or the UK?

 

Edited October 3 by soi3eddie

[JonnyF]

Not content with trying to reverse Brexit, he's now giving away territory.

 

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/uk-to-return-chagos-islands-mauritius-vllbzstmc

 

Good news for China. Not sure the US will be too happy though.

 

This one has Lammy written all over it. What a clown show. 

 

[MarkBR]

10 hours ago, 3STTW said:

 

Internalising markets, whether in a sole country or a cartel, has been proven, many times, to be a disaster. Thanks to this policy, the EU is so far behind in terms of economic flexibility, energy production and technology, it can no longer catch up.

The EU model was predicated on a "United States of Europe", in spite of the introduction of the Euro, the bloc has failed to introduce a common taxation framework and establish a bank of last resort. The ECB is basically a dead flogged horse that has no power to exert the fiscal controls necessary to moderate the EU's diverse economic structure.

And that structure is literally falling apart, on the news, every day.

Since Brexit, the UK economy has diversified and expanded into numerous global markets. The banking industry is regretting their move to Paris and Frankfurt and are moving back to London, there's British seafood products on sale in Japan at $100/kg and the "beleaguered" car industry is doing just fine. And so on.

The only thing that will scupper this success is the Labour government and the incoherent net-zero ideology of the fu*kwit Ed Milliband. With UK energy prices approaching 4x it's neighbours, that genius has just denied the UK any chance of leveling the playing field by cancelling the UK's only energy safety net. With a net global emissions reduction of about 0.001%. Stupid c**t.

 

<deleted>

[James105]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Not content with trying to reverse Brexit, he's now giving away territory.

 

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/uk-to-return-chagos-islands-mauritius-vllbzstmc

 

Good news for China. Not sure the US will be too happy though.

 

This one has Lammy written all over it. What a clown show. 

 

 

Did they even ask the people that lived there before giving it away?   It's not even just giving it away, it is giving it away and then paying them to have it with taxpayers money for an undisclosed amount.   I presume this is yet another thing that wasn't on the manifesto and doesn't face a vote in parliament?   How are they even allowed to do this?   

 

Every day Labour does something that makes the UK weaker, less secure and poorer.   

[JonnyF]

Starmer really needs to get some sense into his MP's before he starts trying to reverse Brexit. Such racially charged language from Parliamentarians is really not acceptable.

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/dawn-butlers-bonkers-black-history-poem/

 

You wanted to see me broken

Head bowed and tears in my eyes?

More for you; you didn’t realise

That my strength is powered by your lies.

You are the wrong one, the violent one, the weird one;

Where was I?

I am the Chosen One

Because I am of the First Ones.

You see this skin I’m in

This beautiful mahogany brown

This skin you don’t like [shot of Kamala Harris], I believe.

So why you try so hard to achieve [shot of Dawn with a bemused fruit juice seller]

By burning yourself with the sun?

For me there’s no need

Because I am the Chosen One

For I am of the First Ones [another shot of a pharaoh like African figure].

I know I’m black and beautiful

An African freedom fighter [shots of US civil rights figures, including Martin Luther King]

My skin is my protection,

And you, my friend, don’t matter.

Because I am the Chosen One

For I am of the First Ones.

You created a structure

That made you seem great

But the simple reality is [shot of Dawn speaking in the Commons]

It is all fake.

Because I am the Chosen One

For I am of the First Ones.

So you wanted to see me broken?

Head bowed and tears in my eyes?

More for you, you haven’t realised

My strength is despite your lies.

 

Edited October 4 by JonnyF

[brewsterbudgen]

Why not just rejoin?  Ok, I realise that would be impossible at the moment.  But it's going to happen within the next 2-3 decades.  Starmer's taking 'baby steps' towards closer integration.  The generational change will speed it up. 🇪🇺

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, James105 said:

 

Did they even ask the people that lived there before giving it away?   It's not even just giving it away, it is giving it away and then paying them to have it with taxpayers money for an undisclosed amount.   I presume this is yet another thing that wasn't on the manifesto and doesn't face a vote in parliament?   How are they even allowed to do this?   

 

Every day Labour does something that makes the UK weaker, less secure and poorer.   

 

No need for all that parliamentary procedure. Starmer is mates with their chief legal advisor. He'll probably buy Keir some new suits next week. 

 

https://order-order.com/2024/10/03/exclusive-starmers-close-friend-is-mauritius-chief-legal-adviser-on-chagos-islands/

[Chomper Higgot]

It’s the culmination of a process initiated in 2022.

It’s also not a return of all islands:

 

“However, there will be an exception for the key island of Diego Garcia, which is home to a joint UK-US military base, and which will remain under UK control.”

 

As for asking the islanders what they want, that might have been a good idea from the start but back in 1968 the forced relocation of islanders from their home was colonial business as usual.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/britain-to-return-chagos-islands-to-mauritius-ending-years-of-dispute

[James105]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s the culmination of a process initiated in 2022.

It’s also not a return of all islands:

 

“However, there will be an exception for the key island of Diego Garcia, which is home to a joint UK-US military base, and which will remain under UK control.”

 

As for asking the islanders what they want, that might have been a good idea from the start but back in 1968 the forced relocation of islanders from their home was colonial business as usual.

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/britain-to-return-chagos-islands-to-mauritius-ending-years-of-dispute

 

It's not a return as these islands were never "owned" by Mauritius, who will now be charging the UK 'rent' on something given to them that they have never owned.   This is why the Tories never went through with it as even they are not daft enough to do this.  The reason this has happened out of the blue is to move the media away from discussing free gear Kier's sugar daddy, which will no doubt end up costing the tax payer countless billions as he is a weak man unable to cope with justifiable criticism.  

 

These clowns are out of their depth and out of control.  

[Chomper Higgot]

47 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

It's not a return as these islands were never "owned" by Mauritius, who will now be charging the UK 'rent' on something given to them that they have never owned.   This is why the Tories never went through with it as even they are not daft enough to do this.  The reason this has happened out of the blue is to move the media away from discussing free gear Kier's sugar daddy, which will no doubt end up costing the tax payer countless billions as he is a weak man unable to cope with justifiable criticism.  

 

These clowns are out of their depth and out of control.  

What Kier zipped back on Time to 2022 in order to set this all in motion as a distraction to a non issue?

 

Your predictions of costing billions is baseless, but I think you knew that.

Edited October 4 by Chomper Higgot

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

It's not a return as these islands were never "owned" by Mauritius, who will now be charging the UK 'rent' on something given to them that they have never owned.   This is why the Tories never went through with it as even they are not daft enough to do this.  The reason this has happened out of the blue is to move the media away from discussing free gear Kier's sugar daddy, which will no doubt end up costing the tax payer countless billions as he is a weak man unable to cope with justifiable criticism.  

 

These clowns are out of their depth and out of control.  

 

A Nationality & Borders Bill to ensure those descended from individuals born in the British Indian Ocean Territory be allowed to register as British citizens received royal assent in April 2022, with people of Chagossian descent now able to apply to become a British Overseas Territories citizen (largely due to the efforts and support of former MP, Henry Smith).

 

Henry says that the UK government ceding of this British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius, against the will of most islanders is a betrayal of Chagossians, who have not even been offered a vote. I agree. These Chagos Islands were never a part of Mauritius - they were just administered from Mauritius in the French colonial era. Unfair, unnecessary and unwise.

[James105]

38 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What Kier zipped back on Time to 2022 in order to set this all in motion as a distraction to a non issue?

 

Your predictions of costing billions is baseless, but I think you knew that.

 

This pointless and needless action is going to cost money:

 

"As part of the deal, the U.K. will retain sovereignty of Diego Garcia for an initial period of 99 years, and will pay Mauritius an undisclosed rent. It will also create a “resettlement” fund for displaced Chagossians aimed at letting them move back to the islands other than Diego Garcia."

 

https://apnews.com/article/uk-mauritius-chagos-diego-garcia-base-37d13bf54f9769f3621bd41d08a448f8

 

How much will it cost the UK then to rent these islands then?  There is a reason it is "undisclosed" as it will be an embarrassing amount of money.   

 

There was no urgent need for this.  Nobody was making lots of noise about it.  The only reason for it is a distraction.   I understand their need to change the news agenda as they are getting hammered for Free gear kiers penchant for gifts from sugar daddies, but this will cost yet more taxpayers money being frittered away abroad for nothing in return. 

 

Argentina will be next demanding the Falklands, followed by Spain with Gibraltar as they have seen how weak and useless these clowns are.  

[Chomper Higgot]

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

It will also create a “resettlement” fund for displaced Chagossians aimed at letting them move back to the islands other than Diego Garcia."

The resettlement of the people the British forcibly removed from their homes.

 

The cost of past abuses coming home to roost:

 

“The agreement will allow a right of return for Chagossians, who the UK expelled from their homes in the 1960s and 1970s, in what has been described as a crime against humanity and one of the most shameful episodes of postwar colonialism.“

 

 

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

There was no urgent need for this.  Nobody was making lots of noise about it.  The only reason for it is a distraction. 

 

“The United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly backed a motion condemning Britain’s occupation of the remote Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean.

The 116-6 vote left the UK diplomatically isolated….”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/22/uk-suffers-crushing-defeat-un-vote-chagos-islands

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/britain-to-return-chagos-islands-to-mauritius-ending-years-of-dispute

 

Take note of the use of links to substantiate my statements.

 

Now let’s see you provide links to substantiate this claim of yours:

 

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

The only reason for it is a distraction.

Give it your best go.

 

 

Edited October 4 by Chomper Higgot

[James105]

14 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The resettlement of the people the British forcibly removed from their homes.

 

The cost of past abuses coming home to roost:

 

“The agreement will allow a right of return for Chagossians, who the UK expelled from their homes in the 1960s and 1970s, in what has been described as a crime against humanity and one of the most shameful episodes of postwar colonialism.“

 

 

 

“The United Nations general assembly has overwhelmingly backed a motion condemning Britain’s occupation of the remote Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean.

The 116-6 vote left the UK diplomatically isolated….”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/may/22/uk-suffers-crushing-defeat-un-vote-chagos-islands

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/03/britain-to-return-chagos-islands-to-mauritius-ending-years-of-dispute

 

Take note of the use of links to substantiate my statements.

 

Now let’s see you provide links to substantiate this claim of yours:

 

Give it your best go.

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy

 

The UN?  No country abides by their motions unless it benefits them as their rulings are non binding.   The fact the clowns in government did just shows how weak they are.  The clowns transferred sovereignty of a strategic territory to a state it never belonged to who is an ally of a strategic rival and agreed to pay for the privilege.   Still, it gives the media something else to talk about other than Free Gear Keirs sugar daddy gifts as that story was not going away.    

 

Oh, and the Chagos islanders feel betrayed too, so there is that.   

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_cat_strategy

 

The UN?  No country abides by their motions unless it benefits them as their rulings are non binding.   The fact the clowns in government did just shows how weak they are.  The clowns transferred sovereignty of a strategic territory to a state it never belonged to who is an ally of a strategic rival and agreed to pay for the privilege.   Still, it gives the media something else to talk about other than Free Gear Keirs sugar daddy gifts as that story was not going away.    

 

Oh, and the Chagos islanders feel betrayed too, so there is that.   

 

 

 

Any luck find a link to substantiate your claim that this is a distraction?

 

Give it another go.

 

15 hours ago, James105 said:

The only reason for it is a distraction