Trump - just what does he have to do for his supporters to question their allegiance?

[EVENKEEL]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Ya'll always gotta scratch that itch.

English please.

[MangoKorat]

13 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

A large majority of posters from both sides in USA threads aren't from the USA. 

And how does that matter? 

 

On Economics: What happens in a country with an economy the size of the USA's affects what happens elsewhere.

 

On Environmental Matters: The actions of any county may affect others and possibly, the rest of the world. This is especially pertinent as the USA is the world's second largest polluter.

 

Trump being a climate change denier and in charge of the USA is likely to take the USA out of the Paris Accord again and possibly take other measures that could damage the environment further than it has been already. Local actions have global consequences.

[MangoKorat]

On 10/11/2024 at 6:00 PM, CallumWK said:

 

Then I wonder why you consider it any of your business why people support Trump

I refer you to the post above.

[CallumWK]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I refer you to the post above.

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me, because I'm not a climate change denier, and neither is Trump.

Climate has been changing forever through the lifecycle of the planet earth.

It is the fanboys that deny climate change is a natural phenomena that bother me

[MangoKorat]

3 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me, because I'm not a climate change denier, and neither is Trump.

Climate has been changing forever through the lifecycle of the planet earth.

It is the fanboys that deny climate change is a natural phenomena that bother me

In no way is the speed at which climate change is taking place natural.  It has been brought about by human activity.

 

The point of refering you to the previous post was because you had previously questioned why it was any of my business that people supported Trump. I think the post I refer to explains that quite clearly.

Edited 4 hours ago by MangoKorat

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, MangoKorat said:

It has been brought about by human activity.

 

I'm sure you mean that the speed of how it is happening is because of the number of human population.

[pattayasan]

11 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I'm not sure what you are trying to tell me, because I'm not a climate change denier, and neither is Trump.

Climate has been changing forever through the lifecycle of the planet earth.

It is the fanboys that deny climate change is a natural phenomena that bother me

 

The Earth is currently in a natural cooling trend that began around 10,000 years ago. If all else remained the same, this cooling trend would continue for thousands of years.

[MangoKorat]

12 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I'm sure you mean that the speed of how it is happening is because of the number of human population.

The size of the population will have a bearing on it but the main reason is that we have emitted massive amounts of pollutants into the atmosphere and destroyed much of the planet's natural mehtod of balancing them.

 

I.E. we have sent massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere and cut down the rainforrests that normally capture it.  Most of this has taken place relatively recently - i.e. since the Industrial Revolution - around 1750.

 

The planet's natural changes are well documented and have been intensively studied. They have taken place over millions of years - not just 275 or so.  There is a good explanation here:

 

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2019/09/19/natural-climate-change-causes/

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

The Earth is currently in a natural cooling trend that began around 10,000 years ago. If all else remained the same, this cooling trend would continue for thousands of years.

I see, so we are simply panicking for nothing right?  All the leading scientists are wrong - is that it?

[CallumWK]

8 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

The point of refering you to the previous post was because you had previously questioned why it was any of my business that people supported Trump. I think the post I refer to explains that quite clearly.

 

So you made clear that you don't support Trump's policies. Up to you, at least has policies, in contrast to Miss word salad, and at the end of the day they will not make a yota difference about how the climate change proceeds.

If you ask me what would be the solution to slow down the process, I don't have an answer, but it surely isn't EV's which are not less polluting than ICE cars, if you follow the whole process.

The only way would be to cull the population, at which they took an attempt in 2019, but that would really be not unacceptable IMHO

[pattayasan]

3 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I see, so we are simply panicking for nothing right?  All the leading scientists are wrong - is that it?

 

Quite the opposite. Try to keep up.

 

A new study reaffirming that global climate change is human-made also found the upper atmosphere is cooling dramatically because of rising CO2 levels.

 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/climate-change-upper-atmosphere-cooling

Edited 4 hours ago by pattayasan

[save the frogs]

4 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

So you made clear that you don't support Trump's policies.

nobody knows what 95 per cent of his policies are yet.

you need to wait. 

 

[pattayasan]

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

nobody knows what 95 per cent of his policies are yet.

you need to wait. 

 

 

Curiously, Republicans have no clue what Trumps policies are but for the Dems it's crystal clear. Perhaps just a little denial going on?

[MangoKorat]

10 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

So you made clear that you don't support Trump's policies. Up to you, at least has policies, in contrast to Miss word salad, and at the end of the day they will not make a yota difference about how the climate change proceeds.

If you ask me what would be the solution to slow down the process, I don't have an answer, but it surely isn't EV's which are not less polluting than ICE cars, if you follow the whole process.

The only way would be to cull the population, at which they took an attempt in 2019, but that would really be not unacceptable IMHO

Correct, I do not support Trump's policies - not in the slightest. I know very little about US politics and even less about Biden/Harris. As my OP infers  - I just cannot understand how so many people could not only vote for him but clearly believe his ridiculous claims and lies. So much so that some were prepared to commit insurrection.  I also find it amusing that a convicted felon continues talking about all the criminals coming over the border.

 

Clearly a cull will never happen but I agree that the size of the world's population is a key factor in climate change.

 

EV's have their problems but they do not form part of my discussion, I'm not convinced on them yet.  I'd wager however, that an EV, for all the environmental damage it does do, is nowhere near as harmful as a gas guzzling 5.7 litre pick up truck - both of which will spend 90% of their life moving just one person around.

 

 

Edited 4 hours ago by MangoKorat

[MangoKorat]

10 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

Quite the opposite. Try to keep up.

 

A new study reaffirming that global climate change is human-made also found the upper atmosphere is cooling dramatically because of rising CO2 levels.

 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/climate-change-upper-atmosphere-cooling

Your attempt at wit implies that you do not believe the world's top scientists.  Either that or the point you are making is totally lost on me.

 

Whatever, I have to go watch some paint dry, thanks.

[Patong2021]

Trump will lose supporters if many of his administration policies are effected;

-Reduced income tax for the super wealthy and reduced taxes for Social Security benefits will result in increased deficits and underfunding of benefit programs. 

- Repeal of the Affordable Care Act will result in tens of millions of uninsured people

- Imposition of 10% tariffs will contribute to inflation

- Forced reduction of interest rates will encourage deficit growth shouldering future generations with massive debt obligation

- Weakened building and development codes will allow building in flood and tornado high risk zones

- Widescale deportations of unauthorized migrants will result in service industries,  being unable to serve people (e.g. no dishwashers, no cleaners), slaughterhouses and farm labour will not have enough people to do the work and food prices will increase, contractors will not be able to find  workers and this will be reflected in the costs of renovations, maintenance and  new builds. 

- Some of the most controversial actions will result in litigation that will  delay or block implementation

- Social activists will become bolder and the USA could see civil unrest that is as bad and as widespread as in the 1960's.

- An attempt to neutralize the Iranian regime will result in a war.

- North Korea will become more aggressive and China may provoke the USA with an attack on Taiwan. Americans will get the war that they say Trump would never cause.

 

 

On 10/11/2024 at 12:51 PM, CallumWK said:

To the OP, have a hot chocolate milk, then cry yourself to sleep. You better get used to it, because you will have to live with it for the next 4 years.  As to answer your question, it seems many see a similitude of themselves in Trump, and that your post not gonna change.

 

Try 2 years. If Trump's administration  creates havoc, the midterm elections will see the thin Republican majorities in the House and Senate disappear and a flip to Democrat. Trump would then enjoy 2 years of the delights that the Republicans rained down on  Democrat  Presidents when the Republicans controlled the Senate and the House.

 

4 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

The Earth is currently in a natural cooling trend that began around 10,000 years ago. If all else remained the same, this cooling trend would continue for thousands of years.

 

Ok. Unfortunately, this doesn't help much as the  earth heats up now as extreme weather events result in floods and windstorms and wildfires that are  destroying many regions.

[CallumWK]

5 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I'd wager however, that an EV, for all the environmental damage it does do, is nowhere near as harmful as a gas guzzling 5.7 litre pick up truck - both of which will spend 90% of their life moving just one person around.

 

I've never been to the US, and in my 66 years, I have never encountered a 5.7 litre truck, because they don't have them in the EU. I even doubt that they are still common in the US.

So that is just another lame excuse form the green boys

[frank83628]

On 11/17/2024 at 7:16 PM, MangoKorat said:

I know what I see and hear. I know that he's been convicted of a felony offence and has other cases pending. I watched the debate on TV where he said that Haitian refugees were eating cats and dogs. I know that he incited the violence on 6 January 2021 and I watched the results of his actions on TV. I know that he has stated several times that Climate Change is a hoax and that he cancelled America's agreement to the Paris Accord. I am aware that he introduced a policy that separated the children of illegal migrants from their families. I know that he lied about the value of some real estate in order to facilitate a larger loan.  I heard him state on TV that the deaths from Covid would never reach 100,000 - they are currently running at over 1.2 million..............................

 

I could go on, there are probably enough lies, false statements and offences etc. to fill a book.  You think it matters that I'm not an American?

 

I am fully aware that some people who voted for Trump don't actually like him and I've heard the reasons they give.  Nevertheless, I could not bring myself to vote for a complete mad man like Trump and I have major problems understanding those who could.

 

Trump cares about one thing and one thing only - Trump! His entire agenda is populist because he knows a large percentage of the US population will feed off it.  A large percentage of the US population is then, uneducated in terms of politics.  That same sector of the population also seem to care more about their pockets than anything else. That sector can probably be framed by the views I heard during a televised public debate some years ago on ......is it Medicare - the one known as Obamacare? What those attendees were basically saying is 'why should we pay for poor people to receive medical treatment?' Their views on the subject were quite strong and although they didn't literally say it - the implication was that people who couldn't afford medical treatment should just be left to die or live with their afflications.

 

To someone who was born and has lived his entire life under the British welfare/NHS system - and who has received life saving treatment for cancer that cost far more then I could ever afford - hearing that debate was shocking. Until that point, I hadn't paid much attention to the American persona athough their gung ho attitudes have been well known throughout the world for many years.

 

Moving forward to the Trump era, I've learned even more about US citizens and the recent election results cemented my feelings.

 

I have friends from the USA - some of whom feel they have to apologise for Trump so I know its not the entire population. So let's not hide under rocks - I'll tell you what I really think - I think that a large proportion - possibly as much as 50% in light of the election results, of the US population are Selfish, increasingly Right Wing Lunatics that care only for today and the dollar in their pocket. They have no cares for the planet or what they will leave behind for their children and grandchildren. They don't seem to care about those who are less well off in their own country (even though its those people who labour for large corporations) as long as they can achieve the great American Dream.

 

Trumps policies may help those people in the short term but lets's see what long term damage they do. Isolationist policies have never worked - anywhere. Thankfully he only has 4 years so hopefully much of the damage he causes can be repaired.

 

P.S. The madness continues - just look at the people he's installing in his forthcoming government.  I'm guessing many will be questioning their voting already.

 

Sounds like you've got your knickers severly twisted up and comment makes you sounds fragile and weak, I can understand it coming from an American.

You could always join white guys for Harris or a womens circle and cry it out. 

 

Trump is great, a piss taker & calls out the losers, tells it like it is. Go Trump.!!

 

 

 

 

[pattayasan]

18 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Your attempt at wit implies that you do not believe the world's top scientists.  Either that or the point you are making is totally lost on me.

 

Whatever, I have to go watch some paint dry, thanks.

 

I notice you don't try to support your delusion that the Earth is warming naturally.

[frank83628]

16 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

Get over yourself - its quite simple. The majority of US voters have shown quite clearly that care only about the dollar in their pocket - today! Nobody in their right mind would vote for someone who suggests they use bleach to cure Covid.

 

My 'little list' as you call it - was quite clearly an extremely condensed summary of Trump's lies, calims and falsehoods.  He's even on record as trying to pressure an election official (a Republican) to change at least one 2020 election result.

 

The 'little list' is actually a very long list and the more you learn, the less any rational thinker understands the election result.

 

Trump's 'masterstroke', for want of a more fitting description, was that which he came up with during the last few weeks of his campaign - asking people if they were better off 4 years ago or now.

 

They didn't seem to stop and think about the effects and costs of Covid or the fact that inflation was worldwide. Blaming Biden for inflation is simply ridiculous. The US economy has rebounded from Covid far better than most, inflation is now falling and growth in the US is better than that of many countries. That will begin to filter into the public's pockets soon and Trump will claim its his doing.  That, in much the same way as he inherited a healthy ecomony from Obama and claimed credit for it.

The fact you just said trump suggsted using bleach to cure COVID shows exctly how little you actually know. Your long winded tantrum just sounds pathetic, even more so when Addiing the fact youre British, not American.  You n JT would get along well.

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

And how does that matter? 

 

On Economics: What happens in a country with an economy the size of the USA's affects what happens elsewhere.

 

On Environmental Matters: The actions of any county may affect others and possibly, the rest of the world. This is especially pertinent as the USA is the world's second largest polluter.

 

Trump being a climate change denier and in charge of the USA is likely to take the USA out of the Paris Accord again and possibly take other measures that could damage the environment further than it has been already. Local actions have global consequences.

How was it damaged last time?

[frank83628]

51 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I see, so we are simply panicking for nothing right?  All the leading scientists are wrong - is that it?

Who are the leading scientists being paid by? Are all the ones that differ in opinion wrong

[ModdaPunk]

At this point, nothing.

Just have fun with the current situation.

It's a circus that you can't really control so have fun with it.

Individuals are dumb, crowds are even dumber.

This is just part of our reality as a species.

So trigger the left, trigger the right, let people get hysterical and enjoy the mayhem :)

 

And if you want to take a breather and reset, watch a George Carlin show on Youtube.

That guy knew...

 

 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, pattayasan said:

 

Curiously, Republicans have no clue what Trumps policies are but for the Dems it's crystal clear. Perhaps just a little denial going on?

Sorry, I haven't read the thousands of posts on here, so I don't know what you Dems are expecting him to do. 

 

Someone should start a thread making predictions about everything that Trump will do.

And then we can check back in 4 years to see how accurate everyone was.

 

Since he's in bed with Elon, I will make 2 predictions: 1) Self-driving cars will explode in the next 4 years and 2) Maybe crypto/blockchain will explode? I'm guessing a few tech things will really take off and become mainstream. 

 

As far as geopolitics, I don't know. 

 

 

[save the frogs]

1 hour ago, pattayasan said:

 

Curiously, Republicans have no clue what Trumps policies are but for the Dems it's crystal clear. Perhaps just a little denial going on?

Most people are narrow-minded and taking in way too much fake news and basing their perceptions on this fake or limited news. 

 

This just came into my Youtube feed.

Elon / Trump are initiating a massive tech project in the Philippines.

If you read the comments section of the youtube video, the Filipinos don't seem to be complaining about Trump.

 

 

Edited 2 hours ago by save the frogs

[save the frogs]

Regarding the video above, at 5:58 they mention they could start putting automated kiosks in govt offices.

Imagine that comes to Thailand ... that would mean no more need to interact with the immigration officers ... it sounds like. 

 

[candide]

On 10/11/2024 at 6:43 PM, MangoKorat said:

Despite his claims, Trump is a devious, ill meaning liar.

 

He has little respect for the law and been involved in dozens of court cases over the years - many before he became president of the USA.  His treatment and regard for the opposite sex is legendary. He has divided a nation, even divided families and severely weakened the USA's consideration on the international stage.

 

His lies are often just crazy - from suggesting bleach might cure covid to stating that immigrants are eating pet dogs and cats.  When anything goes against him - either he's caught out lying or new legal action is taken, he cries 'witch hunt'.

 

He is also though, very cunning and knows exactly how to gain support of people by claiming emapthy with them and using populist ideals.  Many of his supporters just take his claims as gospel and don't even bother to check them out.  He has been very succesful in getting them to believe that the 'deep state' is actually out to get them and he has spawned many, quite ridiculous conspiracy theories.  Incidentally, quite a large proportion of Trump supporters appear to be conspiracy theorists. 

 

A recent conspiracy theory, spread by a Trump supporting congresswoman claims that the recent Hurricanes in the USA are a result of the government controlling the weather.  Trump himself spread misinformation regarding the current government's response to Hurricane's Helen & Milton - claiming that victims would only receive $750 and that disaster relief funds were being diverted to illegal immigrants.  Both those claims are totally false. Interestingly, this seems to have caused division within the Republican Party itself. Do you support people like that?

 

The above by the way, has nothing at all to do with the forthcoming election battle between Trump and Harris.  I'm not from the USA so who wins the election has very little bearing on my life - so I'm not inviting comments from people comparing the two.

 

No, what interests me is what is wrong with the mentality of US citizens that support Trump?  As a Trump supporter, just how many lies does he have to tell, how many laws does he have to break before you would even start to question your allegiance to Trump.

 

Does it not bother you at all that he and to a certain extent the USA as a collective, was seen as a joke by the rest of the world when he was president? Far from making America great again, the USA's international standing took a large backward step during those years.

 

One of his latest lies was to deny a claim that he sent covid testing kits to Putin.  Moscow has now confirmed that they did in fact receive those testing kits - Trump, as far as I know, has gone very quiet on that one.

 

In the UK, we had a similar situation when Boris Johnson entered politics.  Another proven liar, who divided the country and gained a criminal conviction for activities during his period in office. It took far too long but Johnson is now history. The divisions he created though, remain and it may take a very long time to heal the damage that man did.

 

Trump's misogyny is legendary - he claimed "when you're a star you can do anything, grab 'em by the pussy".......... is this the man you want for president?

 

This isn't simply about bad politicians, every country has had them - this about people who do serious damage to their country, its reputaion and its standing.  Its about trying to understand the support held by someone who clearly tried to incite insurrection on 6 January 2021.

 

What will it take to make Trump supporters come to their senses - what does he have to do? Will you believe whatever he says? Do you ever check out his claims?

 

The man comes over like a spoiled 11 year old every time he opens his mouth.  How did such a person win almost 47% of the popular vote in 2020? I just can't work it out. Can anyone explain all this?

 

I'm happy to take replies but please remember - this is not about comparing Trump to Harris.

His core supporters will never change their mind, whatever he does or says. Then this population can be split into two components:

- some of his supporters are dumb and will believe everything he claims,

- others perfectly know he's lying (it also includes most GOP politicians), but don't care as long as it serves their objectives.