Buying a house without using a lawyer

[chiang mai]

Always check the back of the chanotte, any encumbrance on the property will be listed there.

 

A bog standard 15k solicitor payment doesn't buy you much or reduce your risk, Many people think the role of the lawyer in this type of transaction is to protect the buyer from the Land Office process which in truth is very efficient and requires very little support. Boundaries and seller identity are my two major concerns. 

 

I've never had a lawyer provide a contract for my purchases, I've always done that myself but eventually gave up when I realised that what I'd written and we'd signed probably was meaningless....my lawyer(s) were not really interested in its contents and didn't think it was necessary. What you get for 15k is the lawyers attendance at the Land Office and some cursory checks and that's about it, if you want more than that you have to upscale the price significantly but I still doubt they will bother to do a land office survey.

[J Branche]

Experienced Real Estate Investor from USA.  I agree you need someone very knowledgeable and experienced.  Do not transfer but a very small amount and note it as a payment or security deposit for xx house.

 

The key points are the Chanote and transferred and recorded properly and all details are accurate.  Do Not accept anything but Government Thai ID or Passport to verify they actually own the land and house.  Make sure there are no loans, liens, or claims on the property.  Lastly I recommend the witnesses be from a Law Firm or Goverment Office.  Just had Will for girlfriend created yesterday and they verified, took photos, checked signature.

[newbee2022]

On 11/4/2024 at 2:00 PM, OnTheLash said:

I am in the process of buying a house and would like to know your thoughts on whether I should engage a lawyer or not?

 

The house is in a Thais name and will be going into my Thai wife's name. On the face of it a straight forward purchase.

 

I have been quoted 45,000 baht lawyers fees. House price 5.5 million.

 

I would like to know your experiences buying houses with and without lawyers.

Go together to the land office, change the ownership, pay taxes and hand over the money. Definitely not rocket science

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Experienced Real Estate Investor from USA.  I agree you need someone very knowledgeable and experienced.  Do not transfer but a very small amount and note it as a payment or security deposit for xx house.

 

The key points are the Chanote and transferred and recorded properly and all details are accurate.  Do Not accept anything but Government Thai ID or Passport to verify they actually own the land and house.  Make sure there are no loans, liens, or claims on the property.  Lastly I recommend the witnesses be from a Law Firm or Goverment Office.  Just had Will for girlfriend created yesterday and they verified, took photos, checked signature.

It's unusual for deposits to be deployed here, if they are then a contract is required, which is far from customary.

 

Liens and borrowings are recorded on the back of the channotte.

[scorecard]

On 11/4/2024 at 2:00 PM, OnTheLash said:

I am in the process of buying a house and would like to know your thoughts on whether I should engage a lawyer or not?

 

The house is in a Thais name and will be going into my Thai wife's name. On the face of it a straight forward purchase.

 

I have been quoted 45,000 baht lawyers fees. House price 5.5 million.

 

I would like to know your experiences buying houses with and without lawyers.

 

What does tht 45,000Baht cover:

 

- The personal fee to the lawyer for:

• Helping with getting the documentation correct?
• Checking that the chanut is in order including checking that the current name on the back of the chanut is the person selling?
• Checking there's no other encumbrances on the chanut E.g. a bank or a finance company who are using the chanut as a security for a loan.
• The official fees payable to the Lands Titles Office (LTO).
• Any other fees: e.g. personal 'gratuity' (corruption) to the senior officer at the LTO for which there is no receipt?

[crazykopite]

I have seen to many farang buy a house in thai wife name and 1 or 2 years later the husband is kicked out and she rubs her hands in glee it’s happening to my friend at the moment and he wasn’t even married without his money she had nothing shortly she will be worth a good 7 million as a property owner for less than 50,000 spend it wisely on a lawyer and ensure if things go belly up you have some protection 

[ujayujay]

It's your own fault if you want to do any real estate transaction in Thailand yourself, without a lawyer, just to save a little money. Have fun getting ripped off! Dream on, little Dreamer

 

PS: My experience... don't do it without a lawyer. I have lived in Thailand for 18 years and have 2 houses and have seen so many expats' dreams shattered because they wanted to play cheap and save money in absolutely the wrong place

Edited 6 hours ago by ujayujay

[chiang mai]

I will echo @scorecard post above, what exactly do you think you get for your money when you pay 15k or 45k for a lawyer to help you buy a property? In practise, lawyer is just another pointless agent here, just like visa agents and bank account agents, you can do it all yourself because the Land Office does all the work. You don't actually get any extra protection, as far as I can see and I've bought and sold a number of times.

Edited 6 hours ago by chiang mai

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

I will echo @scorecard post above, what exactly do you think you get for your money when you pay 15k or 45k for a lawyer to help you buy a property?

 

I add further, don't fall for the old trick of being told by a Thai lawyer(s) that local Thai folks / foreigners are not allowed to do the 'transaction' at a Land Title Office (LTO), must be done by a qualified Thai lawyer, officially pre-registered at the LTO.

 

I know that locals / foreigners can do the transaction without a lawyer:

 

1. The Pattaya LTO tried this when my company bought a house and land property in Sth Pattaya. My own long term well respected lawyer in Bkk (respected by several snr ministers), challenged this and the Pattaya LTO backed down.

 

My Bkk lawyer sent a junior qualified lawyer from his office to 'observe' the transaction at the Pattaya LTO. The junior lawyer (not afraid to speak up) insisted on giving a letter, from my Bkk lawyer, to the Pattaya snr. LTO officer explaining he was there to observe that the transaction was conducted according to the law. The snr Pattaya LTO guy was shocked and frightened by the letter and did ensure all was done according to the law and regulations. Snr.

 

Snr. Pattaya LTO officer then tried to give the junior lawyer several gifts to pass to my lawyer in Bkk. Junior lawyer refused to accept the gifts.  

 

2. I bought a condo in Phaya Thai area of Bkk.  The seller asked me to accompany him to the LTO for the transfer of owners name on the chanut. I requested that my Thai adult well educated / experienced son accompany us. Seller agreed.

 

At the LTO everything was done according to the law and the regulations. My Thai son did some research before we went to the LTO and politely asked several questions. On arrival at the LTO the staff welcomed me politely and asked if I had any questions. All questions from my son received with good attitude and all answered in detail. Son satisfied. No request whatever for 'gifts'.  

Edited 6 hours ago by scorecard

[chiang mai]

Who ever thinks my question is funny, perhaps you want to try and exercise your brain and try to answer it!

[scorecard]

38 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

I have seen to many farang buy a house in thai wife name and 1 or 2 years later the husband is kicked out and she rubs her hands in glee it’s happening to my friend at the moment and he wasn’t even married without his money she had nothing shortly she will be worth a good 7 million as a property owner for less than 50,000 spend it wisely on a lawyer and ensure if things go belly up you have some protection 

 

Not the point of the thread is it. Not all Thai people or foreigners are corrupt / tricky / greedy. 

 

Does the conversation in your bar ever go past how tricky / naughty bar girls are? 

Edited 5 hours ago by scorecard

[ujayujay]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

I will echo @scorecard post above, what exactly do you think you get for your money when you pay 15k or 45k for a lawyer to help you buy a property? In practise, lawyer is just another pointless agent here, just like visa agents and bank account agents, you can do it all yourself because the Land Office does all the work. You don't actually get any extra protection, as far as I can see and I've bought and sold a number of times.

Even if you buy a house through a real estate agent, 3% of the purchase price is included for clarifications, because these agencies work with lawyers and want to be on the safe side....but dream on and stay optimistic

[scottiejohn]

2 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Who ever thinks my question is funny, perhaps you want to try and exercise your brain and try to answer it!

What question?

All I see is yet more of your opinionated misleading statements.

[chiang mai]

4 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

What question?

All I see is yet more of your opinionated misleading statements.

That's because you can't read properly 

 

[scottiejohn]

Just now, chiang mai said:

That's because you can't read properly 

 

More a case of you not writing properly or answering very basic questions with giving meaningless replies.

I will ask again "what question?" are you referring to? 

[scorecard]

15 minutes ago, ujayujay said:

Even if you buy a house through a real estate agent, 3% of the purchase price is included for clarifications, because these agencies work with lawyers and want to be on the safe side....but dream on and stay optimistic

 

Yes there is a sales commission, for SELLING THE PROPERTY (often 3%, sometimes 5% of the agreed sale / purchase price) for:  finding a prospective buyer and arranging for the prospective buyer to inspect the property / meet the seller / discuss and agree the sale/purchase price, agree which party pays the LTO charges etc.

 

That all happens outside of / separate to / before any charges at the LTO. 

[chiang mai]

11 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

Yes there is a sales commission, for SELLING THE PROPERTY (often 3%, sometimes 5% of the agreed sale / purchase price) for:  finding a prospective buyer and arranging for the prospective buyer to inspect the property / meet the seller / discuss and agree the sale/purchase price, agree which party pays the LTO charges etc.

 

That all happens outside of / separate to / before any charges at the LTO. 

The discussion is not about that, it's about the benefits of using a lawyer, nothing to do with real estate agent fees.

[chiang mai]

29 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

More a case of you not writing properly or answering very basic questions with giving meaningless replies.

I will ask again "what question?" are you referring to? 

go back and read my post. Failing that, please go find somebody else to insult.

Edited 3 hours ago by chiang mai

[scorecard]

49 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

The discussion is not about that, it's about the benefits of using a lawyer, nothing to do with real estate agent fees.

 

Agreed, and that's the point I raised 2 hrs ago.

[scottiejohn]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

go back and read my post. Failing that, please go find somebody else to insult.

Which post and which question?

[chiang mai]

18 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

Which post and which question?

Ignore list, forever, bye

[chilly07]

If you use a bank loan then they will  deal with the land office and protect their  and your position. Thai lawyers take no responsibility for their advice. Agents add no value to the process.

Edited 1 hour ago by chilly07