Thailand's Expats Urged to Register with TRD for Tax, Says Expert

[jayboy]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Expat clubs are riddled with crooks trying to make money from elderly expats.

 

This is a trenchantly expressed view. too extreme probably, but at the heart there is a real truth.I did some quick research on this Thai tax expert and to put it mildly it was not encouraging.Please don't pay too much attention to grifters.

[ballpoint]

29 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

If you have only exempt income, you don't need to file a tax return. In that case, I wonder why you're putting yourself through the ordeal of trying to get TRD approval of what you already know to be true. I imagine you see that as a safety check and that if the wheel comes off later, you can always point back to your meeting with the TRD staff and claim they signed off on things. The problem with that is that audits are initiated by Region, not by District and you almost certainly are dealing with District or lower. In an absolute worst case scenario, if push came to shove, I don't know how helpful or useful your two friendly ladies would be.

 

I think if I was in your shoes, I'd not do anything, as long as I was confident I understood that my income was exempt. But I also understand that you may wish to take a different approach, which is fair enough.

 

I'm going to do similar.  I legally haven't filed a tax return since I retired here, due to the previous 'not remitting income in the same year it was earned' rule.  That will change under the new guidelines though, whereby, if things stay the same over the next few years, I will be required to file one. 

 

At the end of 2023, I transferred enough to live on until the end of 2026 into a since untouched overseas bank account, so will not be obliged to file a return until early 2028 -  for the assessable money I will need to remit in 2027, and could have an easy, tax-free life till then.  However, I am going to remit assessable income, with a value just over my threshold, each year during this period and file annual returns based on that.  I have two reasons for doing this:

 

Firstly, by bringing in the extra each year, by 2027 I will have built up enough here to get by with a much smaller remit that year, meaning far less tax to pay then.

Secondly, I will have established a fairly low assessable income pattern over the next few years, for which I will have the paperwork should they choose to audit me again.  Sometimes it's better to intentionally fly above the radar and be identified as a small player, than try to fly below it and risk being caught out.  Sure, if the law does change, or revert back to the good old days, then I will lose a few thousand baht in tax.  However, if it doesn't, then I will make quite a saving.

 

In January 2028 I will assess the situation based on the then interpretation of the law.  If things haven't changed, then I may become a non-resident that year while realising and remitting another capital gain, lasting me another three years, while continuing to remit the small amount each year once I go back to being a tax resident.  Rinse and repeat over a four year cycle.

 

 

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

 

I'm going to do similar.  I legally haven't filed a tax return since I retired here, due to the previous 'not remitting income in the same year it was earned' rule.  That will change under the new guidelines though, whereby, if things stay the same over the next few years, I will be required to file one. 

 

At the end of 2023, I transferred enough to live on until the end of 2026 into a since untouched overseas bank account, so will not be obliged to file a return until early 2028 -  for the assessable money I will need to remit in 2027, and could have an easy, tax-free life till then.  However, I am going to remit assessable income, with a value just over my threshold, each year during this period and file annual returns based on that.  I have two reasons for doing this:

 

Firstly, by bringing in the extra each year, by 2027 I will have built up enough here to get by with a much smaller remit that year, meaning far less tax to pay then.

Secondly, I will have established a fairly low assessable income pattern over the next few years, for which I will have the paperwork should they choose to audit me again.  Sometimes it's better to intentionally fly above the radar and be identified as a small player, than try to fly below it and risk being caught out.  Sure, if the law does change, or revert back to the good old days, then I will lose a few thousand baht in tax.  However, if it doesn't, then I will make quite a saving.

 

In January 2028 I will assess the situation based on the then interpretation of the law.  If things haven't changed, then I may become a non-resident that year while realising and remitting another capital gain, lasting me another three years, while continuing to remit the small amount each year once I go back to being a tax resident.  Rinse and repeat over a four year cycle.

 

 

I am in a similar situation, I have sufficient funds on hand for the next five years hence I have no need to file a return, if I don't want to. But like you, I want to maintain that buffer so I will continue to remit but on a smaller scale and to file a return regardless, also to fly above the radar and be seen as a small player.. 

[Gottfrid]

And again we will have a long winding thread, right? It´s just to go to the tax office and get a TIN. At the same time they will give you the tax form, so you have when time to file. Nothing more nothing less. Now can close the tread. All information that are going to be posted here, we already have in numerous thread already. You just have to pay tax on taxable income in almost every country you become a resident. Why everyone complain and think Thailand is the promised land and a tax haven?

[burner2014]

5 hours ago, sungod said:

Carden drumming up fear and just happens to have a tax advisory business........

 

 

 

Clearly lol 

[spidermike007]

The only way they could get me to register for a tax number would be to threaten to deny the renewal of my visa. Anything short of that, and I will remain without a tax number as long as I possibly can. 

[jesimps]

5 hours ago, UWEB said:

Have tried to register, they just told me don't come back.

At the Jomtien tax office they thought I was a madman when I asked them for a tax number. "Why do you want to pay tax here when you already pay in the UK?" was their attitude. Despite a big effort on my part, I left there TINless.

[damo1967]

4 hours ago, daveAustin said:

I think I’ll wait, thanks. Certainly won’t be buying houses and cars again in the near future.  

For gifts to individuals who are not the taxpayer’s parent, descendant, or spouse, the exemption is up to 10 million baht per year per recipient, with a 5% tax rate on the excess.

[khunpin]

Too obvious that he tries to promote his own business. 

I'll not be alive anymore when it hits me (well written for an over 95 years old, wasn't it?). 5555 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Cabradelmar]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

only overseas income transferred to Thailand is relevant for taxation

If earned while you where a tax resident. Stop the panic. If you don't owe, don't worry. 2024 is no different than every other year prior.

[daejung]

4 hours ago, gk10012001 said:

for more than 180 days. 

For more than 179 days

It starts at 180 days

But I think they will count the days including the day of arrival as 1, so I think it should be no more than "western" 178 days

[Gsxrnz]

My lifelong policy is to treat the taxman like a mushroom, and keep them in the dark. I won't be changing my policy - they can come and find me. Catch me if you can. 

[KCPhuket]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

No, not unless the country has been annexed as the 51st state.

Might as well. They have the same type of government.

[kuzmabruk]

4 hours ago, proton said:

No thanks, and any tax return forms will go in the bin. No taxation without representation, or at least something back for it.

Penalties for tax evasion in Thailand include jail time, which is not a place to spend even a day.  That’s an assumption as I have never had to spend time in a Thai jail.  

[Scouse123]

4 hours ago, chiang mai said:

FWIW I agree that everyone should be proactive, but that doesn't mean rushing out to obtain a TIN or buying his or anyone else's tax services. Everyone should understand the issues as they relate to their particular unique  situation and calculate their own exposure to Thai tax using pen and paper. Set up a spread sheet and update it every month with your income and your TEDA and see what the end of the year position looks like, that's sensible.

 

 

Not all people can do spreadsheets, especially elderly foreigners.

 

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Expat clubs are riddled with crooks trying to make money from elderly expats.

 

True.

 

 

[Gcart]

3 hours ago, quake said:

 Nail on the head.

And does he  think the tax dept wants to process 10s of thousands of TIN registrations where no tax is payable.

[Captain Flack]

An off topic post, trying to discuss US politics has been removed

[johnc925]

I'm now planning my exodus from Thailand after 10 years here. Now that Trump is back in, I'm headed back to the States. None of my income is or should be taxable and to demand this is pure harassment. Good luck Thailand! 🇺🇲

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

 

 

Not all people can do spreadsheets, especially elderly foreigners.

 

 

True.

 

 

Pen and paper works just as well.

[4MyEgo]

4 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

Question 1... does saving count as income if transferred from overseas account into a Thai account.. technically savings are not income.

Question 2... how do you get around the 160 day limit.

 

Answer 1... No

 

Answer 2... you mean 180 days

 

If you reside in Thailand for over 180 days and savings is what you live of, which you remit/transfer from abroad, then you pay no tax and are not required to get a Tax Identification Number

 

I am in the same boat as you and have done my due diligence, that said, I last transferred money here a few months prior to January 2024 when the amended tax code came into effect, e.g. 1 January 2024, so no need for me to lodge a tax return or apply for a Tax Identification Number as I only remit/transfer savings from my account when I need it, i.e. once a year as a lump sum.

 

While I am not a fan of governments controlling the herd, you can call me a black sheep if you like, suffice to say, next year, as I will be returning to my home country for a holiday, I will be bringing back cash, up to the limit required to enter Thailand before having to disclose any such amount, i.e. $20 USA, my wife will be doing the same and we will cash that money (parts of it) at times at Superrich when we need it, using Mumma & Pappa to show their ID's if required.

 

The following year I plan to gift my wife money, her mother and father money and transfer other amounts to myself, so as to minimise any tax payable, if I get into a pickle with the taxman. I trust no one, you can call me a paranoid black sheep now.

 

I don't need to do all of this, because I only send/remit money from my savings to Thailand, but still, am taking a different approach as to how I have been doing things in the past, why, you might ask, well if the government can change things around, so can I, and if ever approached by the tax man, asking me how I survive, I will tell them, that I eat rice and fish....LOL

 

Need to know basis, F the lot of them.

 

 

 

Edited November 7 by 4MyEgo

[JRG23]

All of these tax services companies are all doing the same. It's called stoking fear to drive up business. They think we're stupid.

[Jonathan Swift]

4 hours ago, Aussie999 said:

Question 1... does saving count as income if transferred from overseas account into a Thai account.. technically savings are not income.

Question 2... how do you get around the 160 day limit.

I believe the rules state that any money coming into Thailand that is not specifically government or other type of pension is taxable in theory. That would include money charged on a credit or debit card from your home country. Social security is supposed to be exempt. That said, how are they going to enforce it or track your private transactions? I think most of the comments here are a correct assessment of the current state of affairs. As to my situation, my social security gets transferred once a month by Wise. That is routinely accepted by immigration for extending my one year non O visa. I can obtain an official US statement of social security benefits if they will require proof, say, when I apply for my retirement visa extension. If that happens I will have time to take care of that. I think that covers me. 

[Scouse123]

Another thread that will go nowhere as everybody has their own entrenched ideas and interpretations of this new system.

 

Meanwhile the powers that be remain silent.

 

If their own regional offices don't know what is going on, how do they expect expats to know?

 

What about the thousands that aren't on Asean Now to gather news, fact or fiction, and don't read the Thai gazette?

 

It's all as clear as mud and the only ones asking you to trot off to the tax office, (which many have and have been turned away by officers who haven't a clue what you are talking about,) are those tax advisory offices and those with a vested interest in getting customers. 

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, JRG23 said:

All of these tax services companies are all doing the same. It's called stoking fear to drive up business. They think we're stupid.

Expats are always going to say that any business in Thailand that is run by foreigners is bad, up to no good, full of chancers etc, I guess it must be jealousy in most cases. An expat business could be offering free information and advice and some people would be suspicious, just as they were with Lister! Folks need to get their paranoia under control.

[BoganInParasite]

Yeah nah. Likely just leave before extension due next September and not come back.

[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

What about the thousands that aren't on Asean Now to gather news, fact or fiction, and don't read the Thai gazette?

Yes.  Don't forget get the thousands of Chinese and Russian.  People think they will pay?  Good luck.

[Scouse123]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Pen and paper works just as well.

 

 

Yeah you're right,

 

I can see it now.

 

Boozy Brits filling out their daily spends on the bar stools.

 

1. 15 Chang beers, one plate khao pad moo, three lady drinks...........etc

[Scouse123]

Just now, bkk6060 said:

Yes.  Don't forget get the thousands of Chinese and Russian.  People think they will pay?  Good luck.

 

Ha,

 

Yeah, more chance of a rocking horse winning the Steeplechase!

[Scouse123]

10 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Expats are always going to say that any business in Thailand that is run by foreigners is bad, up to no good, full of chancers etc, I guess it must be jealousy in most cases. An expat business could be offering free information and advice and some people would be suspicious, just as they were with Lister! Folks need to get their paranoia under control.

 

I wonder why expats are suspicious of other expats who run businesses here?

[Captor]

44 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

And again we will have a long winding thread, right? It´s just to go to the tax office and get a TIN. At the same time they will give you the tax form, so you have when time to file. Nothing more nothing less. Now can close the tread. All information that are going to be posted here, we already have in numerous thread already. You just have to pay tax on taxable income in almost every country you become a resident. Why everyone complain and think Thailand is the promised land and a tax haven?

Because we get something back in every country where we are a resident and pay tax?