Foreign Driver in Fatal EV Collision with Motorbike, Drags It Over 50 Metres

[Jonathan Swift]

On 11/12/2024 at 6:25 AM, BritScot said:

Ev are so dangerous to other road users because of the weight of their battery. Everyone's car insurance in the uk has sky rocked year on year, I wonder why???

Interesting point, I bet a lot of people haven’t considered that. Wonder if it means that stock brakes might be inadequately designed. Good to know, thanks.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

On 11/12/2024 at 6:25 AM, BritScot said:

Ev are so dangerous to other road users because of the weight of their battery. Everyone's car insurance in the uk has sky rocked year on year, I wonder why???

Interesting point, I bet a lot of people haven’t considered that. Wonder if it means that stock brakes might be inadequately designed. Good to know, thanks.

 

The 'weight' concept is flawed and borne out of a paranoid 'anti-EV rhetoric' in much the same manner as the myths perpetuated that EV's are more prone to catching fire. 

 

The additional weight of an EV battery generally has no more impact on a vehicle than having 5 grown adults in a car - and when have we ever seen the idea that a crash occurred because a vehicle was fully occupied ????

 

But, beyond all of that - Do people (laymen) really think they are more clever than the 'experts' working for the manufacturer and believe that a manufacturer incorporates brakes that have a lower design scope than the weight of the vehicle they are designed to stop ????....   

 

 

Regarding the increase of insurance costs, again some are making some daft claims which seem logical to them, but are fundamentally flawed - the increasing cost of vehicle insurance in the UK has nothing to do with EV's.

 

Here are the reasons Insurance has increased:

 

Rising Repair Costs: Modern vehicles, equipped with advanced technologies, are more expensive to repair. The cost of vehicle repairs has increased by 33%, influenced by higher prices for energy, paint, materials, and courtesy cars.

Money Expert

 

Supply Chain Disruptions: Post-pandemic supply chain issues have led to shortages of spare parts, delaying repairs and increasing costs. In February 2023, the Association of British Insurers (ABI) reported that an estimated 40% of insurers’ work was affected by parts delays.

 

Inflation: General inflation has escalated the costs of vehicle repairs, replacements, and associated services, contributing to higher premiums. The ABI noted that the average premium paid for private motor insurance was £627, up 12% from the previous quarter.

 

Increased Vehicle Theft: A rise in car thefts has led to more claims, impacting overall insurance costs. High-end models are particularly targeted, leading to soaring insurance premiums.

 

 

Fraudulent Claims: Increase in Insurance fraud, including staged accidents and exaggerated claims, has increased the financial burden on insurers, who pass these costs onto consumers.

 

 

Regulatory Changes: The Financial Conduct Authority's ban on "price walking" in January 2022, which prevented insurers from offering lower prices to new customers while increasing premiums for loyal ones, has led to adjustments in pricing

 

 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

Although anything is possible and we really don't know the exact circumstances of this accident, one has to presume recklessness, and one has to presume that if she were driving more carefully, if she was more attentive or if she was more highly skilled as a driver she could have avoided plowing into this motorcycle and killing this poor woman. The fact that she dragged the motorcycle for 50 meters says something, and it likely doesn't speak of kindness and compassion. 

[Aussie999]

On 11/12/2024 at 7:25 AM, BritScot said:

Ev are so dangerous to other road users because of the weight of their battery. Everyone's car insurance in the uk has sky rocked year on year, I wonder why???

That was happening long before EVs

[Aussie999]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Although anything is possible and we really don't know the exact circumstances of this accident, one has to presume recklessness, and one has to presume that if she were driving more carefully, if she was more attentive or if she was more highly skilled as a driver she could have avoided plowing into this motorcycle and killing this poor woman. The fact that she dragged the motorcycle for 50 meters says something, and it likely doesn't speak of kindness and compassion. 

We could also assume, know how thais drive, it could have been the fault of the bike rider.... but sometimes we assume too much, depending on our own prejudices. 

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Although anything is possible and we really don't know the exact circumstances of this accident, one has to presume recklessness, and one has to presume that if she were driving more carefully, if she was more attentive or if she was more highly skilled as a driver she could have avoided plowing into this motorcycle and killing this poor woman. The fact that she dragged the motorcycle for 50 meters says something, and it likely doesn't speak of kindness and compassion. 

 

That depends on what actually happend... 

 

... Did she 'plow into this motorcycle'...  or did the motorcyclist 'pull out in front of her giving her no chance to take avoiding action' ???

 

The very reason I have a dash-cam is that one day, without any warning, a motorcyclist will pull out in front of my Wife or I and and avoiding them will be impossible - that has nothing to do with compassion. Its not as if this lady though "stupid motorcyclist, I'll not bother stopping quickly"... 

 

Additionally - the 50m distance is not an actual measurement, its a guess...  the stopping distance could have been 30m or 60m...   statements such as this a more often than not quite inaccurate and nothing more than a pure guess of someone at the scene. 

 

 

In perfect conditions, A stopping distance of 50m in a Changan S7 calculates out at 56 kmh - that doesn't imply excessive or reckless speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Charlest1971]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

stopping distance could have been 30m or 60m

If that was the stopping distance, she was clearly breaking the speed limit? That’s Russians for you 🤷‍♀️

[richard_smith237]

Just now, Charlest1971 said:

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

stopping distance could have been 30m or 60m

If that was the stopping distance, she was clearly breaking the speed limit? That’s Russians for you 🤷‍♀️

 

Was she ?? - what is the speed limit in that area ??? Do you know ???

 

At 30m - her stopping distance is calculated at 46 kmh / 29 mph 

At 50m - her stopping distance is calculated at 67 kmh / 42 mph 

At 60m - her stopping distance is calculated at 76 kmh / 47 mph 

 

(calculated for Changan S7).

 

IF the speed limit was 80 kmh she wasn't speeding. 

 

Additionally - I've worked with a couple of Ekatarina's from Ukraine - So... how would that change your Anti-Russian rhetoric then ???

 

 

Here - I'm not arguing the cause of the incident - I'm arguing the stupidity of your comments. 

[Captain Flack]

Some off topic posts and the replies pushing a political agenda, based on unconfirmed nationality have been removed.

 

If you wish to discuss the Russia v Ukraine war there are plenty of other suitable topics open in the relevant forum, to express your opinions.

 

This topic is “Foreign Driver in Fatal EV Collision with Motorbike, Drags It Over 50 Metres”.

[Funkymover]

says car collided with bike,, but as the car is on the correct side of the road,, maybe it was bike collided with car ..  though as it was dragged so far, car was probably going some speed 

[BerndD]

On 11/12/2024 at 4:02 AM, Georgealbert said:

Ms Ekaterina, nationality was not disclosed.

This isn't much of a mystery. This is an Eastern European female name, Russia, Belarus... are the possible nationalities.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, BerndD said:

On 11/12/2024 at 4:02 AM, Georgealbert said:

Ms Ekaterina, nationality was not disclosed.

This isn't much of a mystery. This is an Eastern European female name, Russia, Belarus... are the possible nationalities.

 

Apart from a few bigoted stretches of the imagination - is the nationality even relevant ?

 

If a Thai or any other nationality were driving the outcome might very likely have been the same if this was simply a matter of a motorcyclist pulling across the path of a car without looking... 

 

 

 

 

[BerndD]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Apart from a few bigoted stretches of the imagination - is the nationality even relevant ?

 

If a Thai or any other nationality were driving the outcome might very likely have been the same if this was simply a matter of a motorcyclist pulling across the path of a car without looking... 

 

 

 

 

I didn't say a single word that the driver was at fault. Only an indication of the possible nationality was given.

Incidentally, the Russians actually have a very high accident statistics, although not as significantly high as the Thai one with more than 20,000 traffic fatalities per year.

[BerndD]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

That depends on what actually happend... 

 

... Did she 'plow into this motorcycle'...  or did the motorcyclist 'pull out in front of her giving her no chance to take avoiding action' ???

 

The very reason I have a dash-cam is that one day, without any warning, a motorcyclist will pull out in front of my Wife or I and and avoiding them will be impossible - that has nothing to do with compassion. Its not as if this lady though "stupid motorcyclist, I'll not bother stopping quickly"... 

 

Additionally - the 50m distance is not an actual measurement, its a guess...  the stopping distance could have been 30m or 60m...   statements such as this a more often than not quite inaccurate and nothing more than a pure guess of someone at the scene. 

 

 

In perfect conditions, A stopping distance of 50m in a Changan S7 calculates out at 56 kmh - that doesn't imply excessive or reckless speed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

5 minutes ago, BerndD said:

I didn't say a single word that the driver was at fault. Only an indication of the possible nationality was given.

Incidentally, the Russians actually have a very high accident statistics, although not as significantly high as the Thai one with more than 20,000 traffic fatalities per year.

 

Russia - 12.0 road deaths per 100,000 of population. 

USA - 12.9 road deaths per 100,000 of population. 

 

 

As I wrote - apart from a few bigoted comments...   

 

Thus, trying to 'shoehorn' nationality or being Russian as having any relevance is flawed, particularly when understanding that aggregate stats mean little on an individual level. 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

1 minute ago, BerndD said:

 

[Quote correctly placed]...

 

You've quoted a generalised stopping distances. 

 

My calculations are specifically applied the vehicle involved (Changan S7) 

 

Nevertheless...  If I'm not mistaken, the speed limit there would be 80kmh - not that it means its safe to drive at 80kmh... 

 

Also - we don't actually know how far it took to stop - we just have one quote of 50m, which is most likely someones guess and then that was quoted - its far from being a fact...   

[josephbloggs]

9 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Why do you need "performance", are you racing? or just worried to get late to the office.

Because I like performance in a car. What a stupid question.

Makes overtaking safer too.

[BerndD]

11 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Russia - 12.0 road deaths per 100,000 of population. 

USA - 12.9 road deaths per 100,000 of population. 

Sorry, current figures Oct. 2024

[richard_smith237]

16 minutes ago, BerndD said:

Sorry, current figures Oct. 2024

 

Wiki only seems to quote Russian figures as of 2019 and US figures up to 2021 - yours figures are more up to date.
Nevertheless - do you still think this is remotely relevant ???.

 

For example - the US (2021) is 12.9 road fatalities per 100,000 people and the UK 2.9.

Does that have any relevance if the driver were from the US or from the UK ??? - of course not - its just irrelevant noise by some to shoe-horn their political bigotry into the discussion.

 

We also have no idea IF the driver was even Russian - thus you are still trying to shoe horn in some relevance to nationality. The driver could originate from any Easter European nation - that would still be of no relevance whatsoever to her being involved in a traffic incident in Thailand. 

 

 

 

Edited November 17 by richard_smith237

[Tigger01]

12 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

The speed limit is 60 in that area. 

So the article says the car took 50 metres to stop, that would suggest it was traveling at about 50mph or 80 kph?

[richard_smith237]

24 minutes ago, Tigger01 said:

So the article says the car took 50 metres to stop, that would suggest it was traveling at about 50mph or 80 kph?

 

Perhaps start with the idea that the 50m is nothing more than a complete guess and not an official measurement... 

... It could have been 25 meters, it could have been 70meters - such 'guesses' in this context are nearly always going to have a large margin of error... 

 

Thus debating the 'actual speed' based on such information is going to be highly erroneous.

Edited November 17 by richard_smith237

[hhaat]

19 hours ago, 1happykamper said:

The speed limit is 60 in that area. 

 

This is just about 500 m from the site of the accident.  I doubt the authority would set the speed limit to 60 kph on this kind of road.  Not just bends, there are many junctions with no road marking at all, and shops or housing area entrances just by the roadside.  Common sense tells me, even a 50 kph speed limit is already high.

 

There was someone who said 80 kph.......

 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/W87EHVkQJdQne7g48

 

Since the car was probably going down a slope from the overhead bridge, and the road in front is a little wider, I assume he/she increased the speed.  So, at the site of the accident (probably the + junction), the car was most likely quite fast, very likely exceeding the limit (speed limit won't increase just because there is a slope).  As a result, it took about 45-50 meters to stop.  This is the distance between the + junction and the entrance of housing area where the CCTV is.

Since speed limits are there to reduce harm, the driver caused serious harm because of failure to drive at or below the limit, he/she cannot claim 0 fault.

 

Edited November 17 by hhaat

[hhaat]

But I have seen court cases in which the drivers who caused deaths in similar situations were acquitted.  May be the judges sympathized with the drivers, or they didn't like the victims.

 

In one case, the driver was acquitted (in an appeal) only after staying in jail for sometime though.  That is, the driver was initially convicted.

Edited November 17 by hhaat

[SAFETY FIRST]

On 11/12/2024 at 4:02 AM, Georgealbert said:

Upon arrival at the scene, emergency responders found the car driver visibly upset and crying. 

 

dragging the vehicle and its rider and passenger approximately 50 metres 

Yes, People with mental illness shed tears. 

 

What a nasty person. 

I heard on the local radio station the driver is Russian. 

 

Edited November 17 by SAFETY FIRST

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Jonathan Swift said:

Interesting point, I bet a lot of people haven’t considered that. Wonder if it means that stock brakes might be inadequately designed. Good to know, thanks.

The brakes on EVs are designed accordingly. The issue is also the extra weight causes more damage to both parties. And fixing batteries is not usually an option.