Europe Braces for Escalation: Germany Mobilizes NATO Troops Amid Putin's Nuclear Threats

[transam]

11 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

And there you go. I rest my case. You are incapable of any semblance of an intellectual counter argument and for some reason seem to have an addiction to connect emojis to every single thing you post.

You are cornered, a disgrace to your country AND the freedom it enjoys, trying to cover your comments..🤐

 

[lordgrinz]

1 minute ago, transam said:

You are cornered, a disgrace to your country AND the freedom it enjoys, trying to cover your comments..🤐

 

 

Be careful, next thing you know you'll be declaring "You're either with us, or against us".

[transam]

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

 

Easy to call people cowards and demand they fight for freedom when you are at your keyboard and perfectly safe.  Would you go and actually fight or be prepared to see close family members go and fight and die over a bit of land in Eastern Europe?   I wouldn't be prepared to do that and would rather disputes be settled via negotiation.  Ukraine is not 100% innocent in all this and is one of the most corrupt countries in Europe.   The longer the west funds this war, the longer it goes on, the more people die and the end result will be what it always was going to be, Russia claims back a bit of Russian speaking land from Ukraine.  

Was just thinking about my dad, pulled out from his job to go fight for freedom, at my age I don't have to do that, how about you, on a keyboard and perfectly safe....😉...?

[300sd]

21 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Finally, somebody who gets it! The United States CIA and the European Union instigated and funded a coup in Ukraine, thus forcing Putin to protect his Black Sea Naval port in Crimea. He even built an enormous bridge to keep Russia connected to Crimea, then the US upped the pressure again, and Putin saw what was going on, then decided to take more land to get a land-bridge to Crimea. Like I said, this was all pretty predictable to anyone with half a brain. Now we are in another Proxy-War of our own making, and it is going nowhere fast. Lots of dead people, billions of dollars wasted, and nothing to show for it all, add this to the many other wasteful proxy wars started by the US CIA. If anything, the CIA should be designated a terrorist organization, defunded, and its higher ranking officials imprisoned.

Couldn't agree more.

Since the1950's NATO has been pushing Eastward toward Russia. In 1989 James Baker, Secretary of State said, “we will not move one inch to the East!” Of course that was a lie. Russia even wanted to become a member when Putin got in but the West said no. The West has never stopped pushing Russia and they still are as Biden's handlers just showed us. We're sleeping in the bed we've made!

[dinsdale]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

Did the USA have boots on the ground, does the USA have boots on the ground now...?

Is Ukraine a sovereign nation that can do what it likes.........?

The weapons systems would not work without the US. As for "Is Ukraine a sovereign nation that can do what it likes.........?' this is absolutely incorrect. Weapons systems such as ATAMS it's the US that's been dictating their use and supplying targeting information. Bit of a proxy war in that regard. As for actual boots on the ground there would certainly be military intelligence, weapons technicians and weapon system instructors along with maintenance and a list of others in Ukraine.

[transam]

2 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

The weapons systems would not work without the US. As for "Is Ukraine a sovereign nation that can do what it likes.........?' this is absolutely incorrect. Weapons systems such as ATAMS it's the US that's been dictating their use and supplying targeting information. Bit of a proxy war in that regard. As for actual boots on the ground there would certainly be military intelligence, weapons technicians and weapon system instructors along with maintenance and a list of others in Ukraine.

Hey, retreat, you are beginning to look silly, if you are a Putin supporter, just say so..............🙄

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Hey, retreat, you are beginning to look silly, if you are a Putin supporter, just say so..............🙄

You need to stop getting on the booze so early in the day. It's obviously not good for. If you can't respond with a semblance of reason and intellect I'm sure a whole lot of us on here would not be sad if you just stopped posting. There's only so much nonsense a person can sprout before others start to recognize a problem with them.

[pattayasan]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

You need to stop getting on the booze so early in the day. It's obviously not good for. If you can't respond with a semblance of reason and intellect I'm sure a whole lot of us on here would not be sad if you just stopped posting. There's only so much nonsense a person can sprout before others start to recognize a problem with them.

 

The reasoning you seem to apply is that it's all Ukraine's fault for not surrendering.

[transam]

14 minutes ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Be careful, next thing you know you'll be declaring "You're either with us, or against us".

I can tell you, money doesn't come into it if freedom is at stake, sadly some on here think just about money, and not that folks' freedom is being taken away by an invader......🤔

[transam]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

You need to stop getting on the booze so early in the day. It's obviously not good for. If you can't respond with a semblance of reason and intellect I'm sure a whole lot of us on here would not be sad if you just stopped posting. There's only so much nonsense a person can sprout before others start to recognize a problem with them.

Again, you have nothing, just a personal attack, face the fact, you have NO consideration for the people of Ukraine and their Hitler type attack, just go away and count your money, just to keep you happy.

 

Disgrace......🤔

[James105]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Was just thinking about my dad, pulled out from his job to go fight for freedom, at my age I don't have to do that, how about you, on a keyboard and perfectly safe....😉...?

 

The TV tells you this is a "fight for freedom" and Russia bad Ukraine good but really its a territory dispute and "don't park your missiles on my doorstep" dispute that should be settled with negotiations.  The problem with that approach is that nobody gets to profit from selling weapons of war, the war mongers don't get to experience the glee of seeing people dying at the behest of their corrupt leaders and its all a bit too peaceful.   

 

Fighting for freedom is fine and all when it is actually a fight for freedom.  This isn't it.   

[Keep Right]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh dear oh dear oh dear, it's all going wrong for the proponents of the proxy war.

 

This is what escalation looks like folks, and if some people don't stop poking the Bear it's going to be nuclear winter.

I guess the leaders of Europe that have been front and center in the fiasco have comfy bunkers to hide in when it all goes poof, unlike the serfs they pretend to represent.

"Poking the bear" such as Neville Chamberlain was, afraid of angering Hitler. And we all know how that worked out for him and the British people as well as most of the rest of the world.

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, pattayasan said:

 

The reasoning you seem to apply is that it's all Ukraine's fault for not surrendering.

If that's the conclusion you come to from what I have posted on this topic then your powers of reading comprehension are sadly lacking. There is no possible way to draw this conclusion. If you think you can support this ridiculous notion from what I have posted I would love to see you find it and quote me. Indeed I think this is the 1^st I've seen the word surrender or any mention or reference to it in any thread on this subject.  

[transam]

1 minute ago, James105 said:

 

The TV tells you this is a "fight for freedom" and Russia bad Ukraine good but really its a territory dispute and "don't park your missiles on my doorstep" dispute that should be settled with negotiations.  The problem with that approach is that nobody gets to profit from selling weapons of war, the war mongers don't get to experience the glee of seeing people dying at the behest of their corrupt leaders and its all a bit too peaceful.   

 

Fighting for freedom is fine and all when it is actually a fight for freedom.  This isn't it.   

More rollox........🙄

Does Russia make and sell weapons of war, supply to terrorist supporting countries like Iran...........?

Does the West have to keep up to protect freedom....?

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

That was a World War. Not a regional one. Why don't you talk about the money spent on Afghanistan. How did that end up? What about Iraq. How's that going now? Vietnam? How did that end up. Korea? Well North Korea still exists. Millions of lives lost and probably trillions of dollars down the drain all in the name of what?  

Both war worlds were about defending freedom, sovereignty and liberation. That is exactly what the Ukfraine war is about. Afghanistan, Iraq were unjust wars by Republican Presidents with the endorsement of republicans in congress. Vietnam and Korean War were aspect of US doctrine to stop spread of communism. You are living in a free world because of the sacrifice of money and lives. 

[James105]

Just now, transam said:

More rollox........🙄

Does Russia make and sell weapons of war, supply to terrorist supporting countries like Iran...........?

Does the West have to keep up to protect freedom....?

 

Sigh.  Selling weapons to terrorist supporting countries is not unique to Russia.  The UK and USA also do or has done this as it is profitable for the weapons manufacturers.   In fact the USA left significant amounts of arms and weapons of war behind free of charge for the Afghanistan terrorists to use which they gratefully accepted.  I suspect the women of Afghanistan are not happy about this.  Don't think there is a moral high ground you can take on that one.   

 

If that is your argument that this is a "fight for freedom" then you need a better one.  

[transam]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Both war worlds were about defending freedom, sovereignty and liberation. That is exactly what the Ukfraine war is about. Afghanistan, Iraq were unjust wars by Republican Presidents with the endorsement of republicans in congress. Vietnam and Korean War were aspect of US doctrine to stop spread of communism. You are living in a free world because of the sacrifice of money and lives. 

Well said..........

[pattayasan]

9 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

If that's the conclusion you come to from what I have posted on this topic then your powers of reading comprehension are sadly lacking. There is no possible way to draw this conclusion. If you think you can support this ridiculous notion from what I have posted I would love to see you find it and quote me. Indeed I think this is the 1^st I've seen the word surrender or any mention or reference to it in any thread on this subject.  

 

So, we can agree that Ukraine should not surrender unless Trump makes their position untenable? Putin should stop his illegal invasion and war crimes?

[transam]

1 minute ago, James105 said:

 

Sigh.  Selling weapons to terrorist supporting countries is not unique to Russia.  The UK and USA also do or has done this as it is profitable for the weapons manufacturers.   In fact the USA left significant amounts of arms and weapons of war behind free of charge for the Afghanistan terrorists to use which they gratefully accepted.  I suspect the women of Afghanistan are not happy about this.  Don't think there is a moral high ground you can take on that one.   

 

If that is your argument that this is a "fight for freedom" then you need a better one.  

No, you need to read up on history, and stop counting your money........🤔

[dinsdale]

Latest I'm hearing it was an intermediate ballistic missile with multiple warheads. Makes more sense but they are still nuke capable but obviously this one was carrying a conventional payload and evaded air defence systems. This will change if more are launched into Ukraine as the defence systems work them out and can track and down them.

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Latest I'm hearing it was an intermediate ballistic missile with multiple warheads. Makes more sense but they are still nuke capable but obviously this one was carrying a conventional payload and evaded air defence systems. This will change if more are launched into Ukraine as the defence systems work them out and can track and down them.

Finally you are making sense. Once the Ukraine air defense system know precisely what kind of IBM, it will calibrated to take them down more efficiently. 

[jonbsails]

Ukraine, THE most corrupt nation on earth. Home to NIH funded biolabs that are weaponizing viruses. Home to sex trafficking. Home to the money-launderers that take our close to a TRILLION dollars by now, and send 25% back to our politicians, CIA, FBI and others. I LIVED in Florida during the Oct 1962 Nuclear World War scare. We had TANKS up and down the streets. Tank tracks were on the roads for YEARS after that. Then an agreement between JFK and Khrushchev... Nikita took out his missiles, and we BOTH ( USA and USSR/Russia) agreed to never EVER put military PEOPLE, WEAPONS whether by one another OR BY PROXY on one another's doorstep, front or back. PERIOD!! EVER!!! (See Cuba was PROXY. So that was made VERY clear by JFK...not even by PROXY...like now in Ukraine is proxy for the USA.) We have lied to the world, most importantly our "leaders" have lied to us AGAIN to get us in a war. Gulf of Tonkin, weapons of mass destruction and so on. Just get us to war.

And we have been creeping up to Russia's doorstep inch by inch for decades. If Ukraine becomes a member of NATO, that will then become the same as Russia in an actual war with the USA. THAT is what you dumb cucks want? The USA is wrong WRONG WRONG. And I hope Putin goes in there and destroys ever fckn biolab in Ukraine, puts a stop to the sex trafficking, and the money-laundering,. WE (the USA) caused an illegal ouster of the duly elected  people cuz we didn't like them. The people in East Ukraine VOTED ( yeah that democratic process we in America hold so dear) to join Russia cuz...they are all Russian! So the illegal Ukraine gov't started killing the Russians in east Ukraine.... and Russia said FCK THAT NOISE!!! And just like that, the USA idiots have us on the verge of a world war with nukes. To quote Tom McDonald "No more plastic straws in paper. Just paper straws wrapped in plastic. CONGRATULATIONS!"

If it wasn't for stupid, America would have NO personality traits. Oh, I spent 30 months in Vietnam in an actual war. MILLIONS of Vietnamese died. 58,000 Americans died. I got piss and bags of <deleted> thrown at me each time I came home (3 times). I pay attention to the warmongers who get rich creating wars for our young men die in so they can get rich. We have domestic issues we need to sort out. For the historical illiterate, Russia has NEVER invaded Europe. Yet has endured 2 MASSIVE invasions that killed millions of Russians. Napoleon and Hitler. Both paid dearly for their idiocy. So what is all this fearmongering  "Putin will roll across Europe!" nonsense. 

I am so very tired of the democrats and their <deleted>. Giving BILLIONS to ILLEGAL ALIENS as good Americans lie dying of hunger and exposure in our streets. Thank GOD that is ALMOST over. If they don't <deleted> up and get us in a nukes war.

[dinsdale]

7 minutes ago, pattayasan said:

 

So, we can agree that Ukraine should not surrender unless Trump makes their position untenable? Putin should stop his illegal invasion and war crimes?

Again with the nonsense. There will be no surrender from either side full stop. There will be a ceasefire and a negotiated settlement. Ukraine will lose most of the land already captured by Russia. Crimea will not be Ukrainian. It's gone. Trump is the one who is going to do this. Threaten extremely harsh sanctions on Putin's oil and gas and he'll stop. Trump will drill and can do a deal with the Saudis to up their barrel production to keep prices down if need be. Putin will have no choice but to agree to a ceasefire and a negotiated settlement. Without oil and gas revenue Russia is broke. Ukraine will have no choice. Trump can simply turn off the weapons and money tap. This will happen very quickly when Trumps gets into power.

As for Ukraine being in an untenable position they're not far off that now. Simply do not have the boots to put on the ground in as I have said many times is a protracted attritional war. Russia on the other hand I've seen are losing more than a thousand troops a day but can and is replacing them. Just shows how tactically insignificant 10,000 poorly trained, non Russian speaking North Korean troops is. These troops are all about signaling to the US.

[dinsdale]

30 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Finally you are making sense. Once the Ukraine air defense system know precisely what kind of IBM, it will calibrated to take them down more efficiently. 

I doubt there will be many or even any more of them fired. Point 's been made. Russia's got plenty of other missiles both ground and air launched and the hypersonic Kinzhal missile (very expensive and not used much so far) along with weapons like glide bombs made from the huge Soviet era stockpile of bombs, drones and fibre optic drones (or umbilical drones), plenty of arty and an absolutely huge stockpile of bullets, bombs and arty shells. Add to that the sheer number of troops and you can see there's not a whole lot of reason to fire off IBMs willy-nilly.

[Summerinsiam]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

 

The TV tells you this is a "fight for freedom" and Russia bad Ukraine good but really its a territory dispute and "don't park your missiles on my doorstep" dispute that should be settled with negotiations.  The problem with that approach is that nobody gets to profit from selling weapons of war, the war mongers don't get to experience the glee of seeing people dying at the behest of their corrupt leaders and its all a bit too peaceful.   

 

Fighting for freedom is fine and all when it is actually a fight for freedom.  This isn't it.   

Correct. The conflict is essentially a territorial dispute, that has its roots in the break-up of the old USSR. The narrative that it is an existential one about freedom and national sovereignty is one constantly pushed by Zelenskey and his backers, because it justifies their actions. It does not fit the historical facts. The propaganda that Putin plans to invade a NATO member, like Poland is ridiculous and there is zero evidence to back this up. The west will also tell you that it is about upholding the International rules based order, which of course conspiculously does not apply to their ally Israel.

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, jonbsails said:

Ukraine, THE most corrupt nation on earth.

 

I take it you have never been to Russia then?

[RuamRudy]

32 minutes ago, jonbsails said:

 I spent 30 months in Vietnam in an actual war. MILLIONS of Vietnamese died. 58,000 Americans died. I got piss and bags of <deleted> thrown at me each time I came home (3 times). I pay attention to the warmongers who get rich creating wars for our young men die in so they can get rich.

 

Of course, there are parallels - in the 60s, the US invaded a sovereign country and caused countless deaths because of their arrogant belief that might was right. In Ukraine, Russia is playing the role that the US played in Vietnam. You backed the wrong side in the 60s and you are backing the wrong side now. 

[gearbox]

8 hours ago, dinsdale said:

No. Not a chance. This is just ridiculous doomsday talk and in no way based in reality. Putin will not use tactical nukes and the US will not go in with it's B1's, B2's and B52's, deploy it naval forces and it's ground forces. This is what would lead to WWIII. Ain't going to happen.

You are correct... Ukraine would be hit and the rest would be just watching. At most in Western Europe they would eat a bit of radioactive lettuce. However Putin would need big enough casualties or damage on the Russian side to justify it. Not likely at this stage IMO.

[Summerinsiam]

27 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Of course, there are parallels - in the 60s, the US invaded a sovereign country and caused countless deaths because of their arrogant belief that might was right. In Ukraine, Russia is playing the role that the US played in Vietnam. You backed the wrong side in the 60s and you are backing the wrong side no

Its so easy to make facile comparisons with history. Putin is like Hitler right? There are no obvious parallels. The vietnam war took place at the height of the cold war and was about ideology and the spread of communism. The Ukraine conflict is about territory, Russia's perceived sphere of influence and NATO encroachment.

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Finally, somebody who gets it! The United States CIA and the European Union instigated and funded a coup in Ukraine, thus forcing Putin to protect his Black Sea Naval port in Crimea. He even built an enormous bridge to keep Russia connected to Crimea, then the US upped the pressure again, and Putin saw what was going on, then decided to take more land to get a land-bridge to Crimea. Like I said, this was all pretty predictable to anyone with half a brain. Now we are in another Proxy-War of our own making, and it is going nowhere fast. Lots of dead people, billions of dollars wasted, and nothing to show for it all, add this to the many other wasteful proxy wars started by the US CIA. If anything, the CIA should be designated a terrorist organization, defunded, and its higher ranking officials imprisoned.

Most accurate comment on Ukraine so far!!