K bank E-mail with Tax Forms attached ?

[MangoKorat]

2 minutes ago, Gobbler said:

What is DWP?

 

Department of Work and Pensions - UK

[MangoKorat]

7 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Unconnected.

 

This has nothing to do with false/non declarations to the DWP.

On the contrary.  This is all about information sharing between countries who have agreements aimed at identifying tax evasion/money laundering.  Many UK citizens live in Thailand without actually notifying any UK authorities that they now reside outside the UK.

 

If you think that the UK tax authorities and the DWP are not connected and that they do not share information, you are sadly misinformed.

 

'DWP and HMRC work very closely together, and share information often.'

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/personal-information-charter

[MangoKorat]

Would I be correct in stating that as a UK citizen, I only have to complete the FACTA/CRS forms?

 

The other documents seem to relate to US citizens.

[trevoromgh]

10 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

Would I be correct in stating that as a UK citizen, I only have to complete the FACTA/CRS forms?

 

The other documents seem to relate to US citizens.

Well on the covering note to the email it says "(if applicable)" so as you are NOT a US Citizen then you don't have to submit those is how I read it.

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

What are the consequences if you never fill the forms and they never ask? 

 

I think the US recognizes that not all banks are in the position to defy local privacy laws, so banks were given leeway to segregate their accountholders into those who complied and those who are recalcitrant. I think the balances and transactions of recalcitrant accountholders was to be pooled and reported in the aggregate without identifying individual account holders. This gave the banks a means of complying with FATCA without breaking local privacy laws. 

 

Because of this, I doubt that most banks would take the nuclear option of closing an average expat's account, but it's anyone's guess what a Thai bank may do. I also don't know about CRS or have any insight into Thai laws in this area, which I understand were amended in order to facilitate CRS and FATCA compliance by the banks.

[Gobbler]

19 minutes ago, trevoromgh said:

Well on the covering note to the email it says "(if applicable)" so as you are NOT a US Citizen then you don't have to submit those is how I read it.

 

 

I'll write it again: I was born in the United States of America but I am not a US person. 

[anrcaccount]

2 hours ago, TonyFoster said:

First post on the forum from me. 

 

I too received this email. 

 

I think we should be well beyond entertaining the notion that it is a scam. It clearly is not. 

 

I opened my K bank account in 2012 and everything has been smooth since then - except for the transition to KBIZ which was not exactly seamless for me. 

 

I reside outside of Thailand and always have. I have spent 5 months at a time there several times, but never reached the threshold for tax residency.  Currently, I am not in Thailand. However, i am cognizant of the fact that these days one of the key criteria for having bank account in Thailand appears to be residency as demonstrated by the possession of certain visa types.  I lack and in fact have never had these visas. 

 

I am concerned that if I complete the form truthfully and list an overseas tax residence, the account will be closed. I do not have a Thai TIN and I did actually attempt to obtain one about 5 years ago without success. I have condos in Thailand but the income from them after paying CAM fees and agent commissions falls below the income tax exemption threshold. This is why the tax office denied me a TIN.

 

I need the account to pay stuff like the CAM fees and also electricity / water as some tenants do not have a Thai bank account and can't manage it themselves. Losing account access would be a real bummer. 

 

So, guys what do you think I should do?  Declare a foreign tax residence (I live in a non-CRS country anyway) and risk account closure, or just go with Thai tax residence - no tax due anyway?

 

IMO just fill out the form and add your overseas tax residency and Foreign Tax ID.

 

Absolutely nothing else will happen after that. They will definitely not close your account due to you being a foreign tax resident.

 

That's not an issue at all for KBank.

 

 

 

 

[MangoKorat]

I'll complete the documents that I need to and send them a copy of my passport but they can stuff the certification bit.  They checked my passport last time I was in my branch in August.  A lawyer in the UK will probably want at least 3000 baht for that service.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, TonyFoster said:

I am concerned that if I complete the form truthfully and list an overseas tax residence, the account will be closed.

 

It won't - you are not required to be a tax resident to hold a Thai bank account.

That kind of thing is an issue in the UK because I believe the retail branch level banks aren't allowed to act as offshore accounts for previous residents.

[garygooner]

8 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Just been at  kbank for help with FACTA paperwork it was too easy.All they wanted was my name nationality passport number place of birth.They only want a Thai TIN number if you work in Thailand.Said tick no for all the US questions and ignore the tax resident in another country bit.Sign and date and the jobs a good 'un.Took 2 minutes.

That's great. Where was this?  

[Bazle]

40 minutes ago, MangoKorat said:

I'll complete the documents that I need to and send them a copy of my passport but they can stuff the certification bit.  They checked my passport last time I was in my branch in August.  A lawyer in the UK will probably want at least 3000 baht for that service.

Re certification, I just wrote on the passport photocopy: "I certify that this is a true copy of my passport", and then signed it.

[hotandsticky]

1 hour ago, MangoKorat said:

On the contrary.  This is all about information sharing between countries who have agreements aimed at identifying tax evasion/money laundering.  Many UK citizens live in Thailand without actually notifying any UK authorities that they now reside outside the UK.

 

If you think that the UK tax authorities and the DWP are not connected and that they do not share information, you are sadly misinformed.

 

'DWP and HMRC work very closely together, and share information often.'

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/department-for-work-pensions/about/personal-information-charter

 

You have made separate statements - neither of which provide any evidence that what is happening in the UK is connected to K Bank's current request.

 

All departments have the ability to interchange information; it just that they only/usually reserve it for high value situations.  

 

A friend recently returned from the UK. The length of his stay was uncertain (family terminal illness) so he advised DWP of his arrival. He was told to advise them when he returned to Thailand. He didn't advise DWP on his return ( he was going to take advantage of one more higher payment) but a few days later his payment came through at the previously frozen amount.

 

DWP could only have received that information from Immigration. 

[hotandsticky]

2 hours ago, Gobbler said:

What is DWP?

 

 

Googling would have offered you "Department for Work and Pensions"

[Upnotover]

12 minutes ago, Bazle said:

Re certification, I just wrote on the passport photocopy: "I certify that this is a true copy of my passport", and then signed it.

I suspect you did far more than is actually needed.

[topt]

23 minutes ago, ukrules said:

That kind of thing is an issue in the UK because I believe the retail branch level banks aren't allowed to act as offshore accounts for previous residents.

Not sure what you mean here.

Most, if not all banks, in the UK say you have to be a UK resident to open a new account. There have been quite a few threads on this.

 

In those threads there have been many reports of posters who have accounts and the banks know they live abroad and it has not been an issue.

 

Separately certain banks, Barclays springs to mind, have made it clear that they want to close accounts held by non resident account holders. 

[hotandsticky]

21 minutes ago, topt said:

Not sure what you mean here.

Most, if not all banks, in the UK say you have to be a UK resident to open a new account. There have been quite a few threads on this.

 

In those threads there have been many reports of posters who have accounts and the banks know they live abroad and it has not been an issue.

 

Separately certain banks, Barclays springs to mind, have made it clear that they want to close accounts held by non resident account holders. 

 

 

!00% spot on.......and I think that @ukrules is throwing in a red herring with the unrelated 'offshore banking' - Offshore banking was separated from "UK Banking" some time ago. In the UK it is simply a case of the costs of compliance with 'non-resident' accounts - the UK banks' response - take a sledgehammer to it and insist on UK residency as a requirement for opening an account.

[Lorry]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Not about to read the 8 pages however have couple of questions if someone can advise.

1. Why just Kasikorn customers (at this point)

2. I trashed the email as soon as I opened it since to me (on face value) seemed a scam.

3. Can you deal with bank directly in person

1. The others should do it, too.

Some are slow.

Some dont care about self- certification and just assume you are Thai tax resident (this may get the bank into trouble) or assume you are a foreign tax resident (this may get you into trouble )

 

2. Download the forms from their website, links have been posted in this thread. 

 

3. Yes. But the girl at a small branch may not know what you are talking about. 

[chang50]

1 hour ago, garygooner said:

That's great. Where was this?  

Pattaya tai.

[Bazle]

2 hours ago, Upnotover said:

I suspect you did far more than is actually needed.

As it took minimal effort, I'm not concerned if I did.

[Funkymover]

I do  not understand this section,, are they asking, ,if we are a property owner in thailand ?   because it also says, if you tick yes in one box  you must fill in the W 8 BEN FORM, which is just for americans. 

 

[G_Money]

23 hours ago, Presnock said:

And just where have you bveen since the 2023 July OECD signing by 136 countries and  Thailand's reported plans for taxation of expats and Thai's not paying taxes at all.  BTW expattaxesthailand.com will be doing a webinar on how to fill out the forms - Friday 29 November 1 PM.  you can register for the webinar at their website.

Sorry I don’t trust every thing I receive online.

 

Your reply to my post has nothing to do with the subject of my post

[Upnotover]

2 hours ago, Funkymover said:

I do  not understand this section,, are they asking, ,if we are a property owner in thailand ?   because it also says, if you tick yes in one box  you must fill in the W 8 BEN FORM, which is just for americans. 

 

Reads to me as if they are asking if you use a mailing address/PO box for the account, rather than a real bricks and mortar address in which case the answer will for most be no.

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, topt said:

In those threads there have been many reports of posters who have accounts and the banks know they live abroad and it has not been an issue.

And there re also plenty of reports of Expats known by their bank to be living in Spain and France being debanked since Brexit. And a friend of a friend, living in Thailand was surprise debanked in the UK by a bank who knew he was living in Thailand earlier this year. First he knew, was when he lost access to his account, had to fly back to the UK to get his money put in a different bank.

 

So you fill in the Thai forms, they contact your UK bank, and you then have the chance of losing your UK bank account. Gotta say, I'd rather risk non-compliance problems in Thailand than lose access to my UK bank account. 

Edited 3 hours ago by BritManToo

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

And there re also plenty of reports of Expats known by their bank to be living in Spain and France being debanked since Brexit. And a friend of a friend, living in Thailand was surprise debanked in the UK by a bank who knew he was living in Thailand. First he knew, was when he lost access to his account, had to fly back to the UK to get his money put in a different bank.

 

 

Yep.....2 UK bank accounts plus WISE should see you OK. 

 

That said, surely MOST people living in Thailand have a relative or friend who will provide an accommodation address.

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Yep.....2 UK bank accounts plus WISE should see you OK. 

 

That said, surely MOST people living in Thailand have a relative or friend who will provide an accommodation address.

Lots of 'honest' expats telling their UK banks they are in Thailand.

Lots of 'honest' expats telling the TRD they are living in Thailand, and the TRD will pass that info onto their UK banks.

 

Their honesty will likely get them in trouble.

Edited 3 hours ago by BritManToo

[jacko45k]

On 11/23/2024 at 9:42 PM, ukrules said:

Has anyone who's not from the US received this email...so far?

I see they mention CRS as well which is a non US thing.

I know a Kiwi who received it. 

[StayinThailand2much]

On 11/23/2024 at 8:11 PM, offset said:

As anybody had an E-mail from Kbank asking to fill out 3 forms and return to them

 

Or is this a scam

 

I received the same email. No bank account number, and the forms look exactly like U.S. IRS ones. (I am not even American.) - No such emails from the three other banks where I have accounts, even though the deadline is '20th December'. - Can't enquire at the bank, as I'm not currently in Thailand. No foreign transfers go over this account, so probably best to ignore it.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 11/24/2024 at 1:25 AM, M_Kauke said:

I received it today, living in Germany.
If i understand rigt, I have just to fill the Self-Certification, with the information, that i am not US and not US Tax Payer  and german tax payer and send.

 

What tax ID do you give, if any?

[The Cyclist]

Apropros to the thread from the American / Thai based in Bangkok

 

 

 

The Revenue Department, backed up by 3 embedded links to

 

1. Notification by the Finance Ministry

 

2. Ministerial Regulation

 

3. Royal Act.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf

 

Appears to disagree with Mr Hart on this occasion.

[StayinThailand2much]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Lots of 'honest' expats telling their UK banks they are in Thailand.

Lots of 'honest' expats telling the TRD they are living in Thailand, and the TRD will pass that info onto their UK banks.

 

Their honesty will likely get them in trouble.

 

I am a citizen of country A, but informed authorities that I moved abroad (so, no tax obligations), I have bank accounts (no foreign transfers) in country B, i.e. Thailand, while currently living in country C. (Should I do anything, or will K-Bank restrict my account?)

Edited 1 hour ago by StayinThailand2much