K bank E-mail with Tax Forms attached ?

[Jingthing]

I'm not suggesting people to do it or not do it.

But not getting the email might mean as I suspect in my case about the branch keying in an incorrect email when you opened the account as opposed to online banking where the email must be correct.

I have decided to do the forms because I  wanted to understand exactly what's on them as I have three Thai bank accounts and I expect all Thai banks to do the same as Kbank sooner or later.

As opposed to someday being required to sign a document at a branch to get needed business done without understanding what I'm signing 

[hotandsticky]

3 hours ago, 4myr said:

Remember CRS responsibility's is the Financial Institution's as part of KYC, not the customer of the FI.

 

That is akin to saying that a landlord is responsible for submitting a TM30.

 

Guess who gets the fine for non-compliance.

 

If I was a bank (and responsible for logging this information) I would just close the account of any awkward b4stard,  who didn't respond, and send them a cheque for their balance.

[NativeBob]

As this appeares to be an important thing I requested delivery receipt and read receipt. Two.

I sent these files to their designated email and CC: to another gmail and private server adresses 

Latter arrived just fine, however Kasikorn mail server had an Error regarding last hop delivery. 

 

So how to do? if I sent but they didn't receive it than what? 

I think this didn't happened only to me, 

[Caldera]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

But not getting the email might mean as I suspect in my case about the branch keying in an incorrect email when you opened the account as opposed to online banking where the email must be correct.

 

It's conceivable that they have several different email addresses stored in different places for a customer, yes. That's something I could check with them when I'll go there anyway to update my residential address.

[Jingthing]

I plan on going into the branch with the completed forms which is allowed as an alternative other than email. I assume they will make their own copies of passport and bank book to be signed there. If for some reason they don't want the forms at the branch as reported here they may have questions instead. In which case I will know how to answer because I completed the forms and fully understand the issues involved with CRS and in the case of US persons FACTA.

[soi3eddie]

5 hours ago, NativeBob said:

As this appeares to be an important thing I requested delivery receipt and read receipt. Two.

I sent these files to their designated email and CC: to another gmail and private server adresses 

Latter arrived just fine, however Kasikorn mail server had an Error regarding last hop delivery. 

 

So how to do? if I sent but they didn't receive it than what? 

I think this didn't happened only to me, 

 

 

I wonder, has anyone here who submitted by email, received a reply or acknowledgement from Kbank?

 

[Mutt Daeng]

6 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

 

 

I wonder, has anyone here who submitted by email, received a reply or acknowledgement from Kbank?

 

I sent mine back on 28/11/2024 via email and have not received a reply or acknowledgement, despite the last line of my email saying:

I would appreciate confirmation that this information has been received and no further action is required.

[MeRakThai]

1 hour ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I sent mine back on 28/11/2024 via email and have not received a reply or acknowledgement, despite the last line of my email saying:

I would appreciate confirmation that this information has been received and no further action is required.

Hello, I sent mine back from Australia 4/12/2024 and have sent Two follow up e-mails requesting that have they received my documentations. NO reply back. I know their server has received my e-mails because I requested a delivery receipt which came back as received from their server but NO read receipt. pretty poor service and I am still left wondering.

[NativeBob]

14 hours ago, soi3eddie said:

I wonder, has anyone here who submitted by email, received a reply or acknowledgement from Kbank?

Seems that none.
Exciting development, isn't? 

[Jingthing]

OK.

Nightmare report.

I never got the email but got the kbank crs file from here. The IRS forms are the same regardless.  I filled out the forms on my computer, printed, but signed manually. I needed the CRS and W9.

Hoping I could just hand over my forms and passport and bank book copy and be done with it! Silly me.

The clerk didn't say one word but started typing up a storm.

Eventually he handed me a page in Thai to sign.

I said I won't sign something I don’t understand.

Rather hilariously he accepted that and tore up that page.

Then he typed some more and printed out the forms with what he had keyed in albeit not precisely. So then I needed to proof against my filled in forms.

He couldn't print a filled in W9 form so I had to do that by hand.

Then sign both forms 

Over?

Think again.

He rejected my W9 on the grounds that I didn’t put in a US address.

I had researched this in advance and knew that the address on your W9 must match the address you use to file with the IRS.

I have been filing with a Thai address for decades.

He started fighting me with the support of three more bank staff.

I said this is a US tax form and I must follow the US instructions or I can't sign it.

He said no this is the banks form.

Of course it isn't. 

It's a very official US tax form filed with the bank.

Still trying to fight me he eventually started to get thst I wouldn't budge and let it be.

Learn from my awful experience what you will but I think there is an important lesson for Americans and the W9.

If you go in tbere without forms and they ask your US address to key in their system, if you don't file to IRS with a US address they are filing a totally incorrect W9 form in your name. Fine if you do file IRS with a US address of course.

Maybe filing a very incorrect W9 is OK with most people.  Not me.

 

 

 

[CrossBones]

This is all a load of bo***cks because Thailand has not joined OECD yet. You do not need to complete this form. None of the other banks are asking for it (yet). Also ask yourself why are Thai people not being sent these forms? Non-american foreigners are getting them, why not Thai people?

 

 

[Jingthing]

20 minutes ago, CrossBones said:

This is all a load of bo***cks because Thailand has not joined OECD yet. You do not need to complete this form. None of the other banks are asking for it (yet). Also ask yourself why are Thai people not being sent these forms? Non-american foreigners are getting them, why not Thai people?

 

 

Possibly you're right about everyone except Americans. Banks internationally are obligated to do extra stuff for American accounts which is why quite logically that it's common internationally to refuse to open accounts for Americans.

 

[Etaoin Shrdlu]

38 minutes ago, CrossBones said:

This is all a load of bo***cks because Thailand has not joined OECD yet. You do not need to complete this form. None of the other banks are asking for it (yet). Also ask yourself why are Thai people not being sent these forms? Non-american foreigners are getting them, why not Thai people?

 

 

 

I think you are correct. An accountholder cannot be forced to complete these forms. The bank may close the account if one doesn't, but they are not required to do so by either the CRS or FATCA protocols. You will notice that the advice from the bank states that they may close your account, not that they will close your account. But at the end of the day, it is up to the bank to decide policy on this.

 

I think that for the accountholders who do not provide the information and sign the forms, the banks are supposed to aggregate the balances and transaction information from these accounts and report the aggregates without any detail regarding the accountholders. I think these accounts are labeled "recalcitrant accounts". The banks are not penalized if they are unable to obtain all information from all accountholders.

 

This is my understanding, but I did not work in the banking industry. Perhaps someone with closer knowledge can further clarify.

 

 

[Old Croc]

Last week I attempted to lodge this form in person (via my wife) at Kasikorn's Chiang Khan branch. They refused to accept it, stating it has to be emailed.

They also refused to assist with a debit card to replace an expiring one, stating I need an app on my phone. I don't do any banking on my phone, using only my pc.

As their service is non-existent and location extremely inconvenient, with no branches within 120kms of my location, I will close the account I've had for 14 years and transfer the balance of several million to a more user-friendly bank. 

I don't plan to remit any funds for a few years and will only lodge a nil tax return if it's compulsory.

[Joe32]

I actually think it's just like usual. Crackdown this, crackdown that, strict looking warnings, but no action in the end. When you just came to Thailand it's scary. Later it's just confusing, and in the end you're not even paying attention anymore. If this is nothing again, I'll enter that 3rd stage.

 

I still hope for an answer from anyone.

I have totally no adress or any income from abroad. I'm Dutch but living here for over 10 years. Would it really be necessary to do this? It seems strict, but not strict at the same time. It's inconvenient for me to go there and wait in line as I'm a busy person. Also don't trust sending it by email.

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Last week I attempted to lodge this form in person (via my wife) at Kasikorn's Chiang Khan branch. They refused to accept it, stating it has to be emailed.

They also refused to assist with a debit card to replace an expiring one, stating I need an app on my phone. I don't do any banking on my phone, using only my pc.

As their service is non-existent and location extremely inconvenient, with no branches within 120kms of my location, I will close the account I've had for 14 years and transfer the balance of several million to a more user-friendly bank. 

I don't plan to remit any funds for a few years and will only lodge a nil tax return if it's compulsory.

No need to have a Thai TIN or file here if you aren't remitting any funds.

You may as well find out if the funds that you eventually remit are in a category that are Thai accessible. For example, for Americans only getting social security, there is no need ever get a Thai TIN or to file.

To be clear the current CRS form does not require a TIN unless you are actually required to have one under Thai Revenue rules.

Also good to know that anything you have abroad as of December 31, 2023 in bank accounts (as opposed to investments, etc.) can be sent to Thailand at any time in future as not accessible income for Thai tax. So be sure to get bank statements of that month.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Joe32 said:

I actually think it's just like usual. Crackdown this, crackdown that, strict looking warnings, but no action in the end. When you just came to Thailand it's scary. Later it's just confusing, and in the end you're not even paying attention anymore. If this is nothing again, I'll enter that 3rd stage.

 

I still hope for an answer from anyone.

I have totally no adress or any income from abroad. I'm Dutch but living here for over 10 years. Would it really be necessary to do this? It seems strict, but not strict at the same time. It's inconvenient for me to go there and wait in line as I'm a busy person. Also don't trust sending it by email.

Up to you, but I don't see much risk in ignoring this, and if it's really an issue, it will be up to them to bother you about the next time you have business at a branch.

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Joe32 said:

I actually think it's just like usual. Crackdown this, crackdown that, strict looking warnings, but no action in the end. When you just came to Thailand it's scary. Later it's just confusing, and in the end you're not even paying attention anymore. If this is nothing again, I'll enter that 3rd stage.

 

I still hope for an answer from anyone.

I have totally no adress or any income from abroad. I'm Dutch but living here for over 10 years. Would it really be necessary to do this? It seems strict, but not strict at the same time. It's inconvenient for me to go there and wait in line as I'm a busy person. Also don't trust sending it by email.

Well none of us knows for sure, but I find it very weird indeed that only one bank is getting a little bit aggressive on the CRS. Or step up bothering people who come in for other important services. So I do predict all Thai banks will likely do similar in 2025. Again as far as Americans, these reporting requirements have been in place for many years already and Thai banks should be and I assume most or all are requiring tax info on them when opening accounts.

One reason I did bother with going to Kbank is because I opened my account so long ago that I wasn't asked, and I don't really mind Thai banks having this information, as the fines for Americans for not complying with FBAR and FACTA self reporting rules are so incredibly draconian that you'd have to be very reckless not to comply voluntarily anyway. Also I was curious to know exactly what would happen if i went in, and as in my report, I would say be very wary about signing or saying anything to them that you don't understand (as they were trying to strong arm me into filing a US IRS W9 form completely incorrectly). I had done research in advance and learned this is a common issue internationally, with the advice do not cave to them on that.

[Joe32]

And anyone any idea what exactly will be shared? As I'm really bad at tax stuff, can someone explain this to me as if I were 10 years old? I personally don't mind that something will be shared, but I at least would like to know what exactly, or else my personal information will be shared without my knowledge, which is something no one should be comfortable with.

18 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Joe32 said:

And anyone any idea what exactly will be shared? As I'm really bad at tax stuff, can someone explain this to me as if I were 10 years old? I personally don't mind that something will be shared, but I at least would like to know what exactly, or else my personal information will be shared without my knowledge, which is something no one should be comfortable with.

CRS shares all transactions in your account.

The forms get into tax residencies other than the US and Thailand.

Tax ID numbers for Thailand (only if required for your situation), Tax ID number for the US if a US person (usually social security number), other nation's Tax ID numbers if applicable.

The CRS implies that they know that US persons are subjects of the US IRS by default, unlike just about every other nation in the world as far as their tax authorities if you've left.

For US person's they want a US address but it's not OK for them to demand that on a W9 if you file to IRS with a non-US address. 

[Yumthai]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

CRS shares all transactions in your account.

Wrong. Do some more research about CRS.

[Jingthing]

18 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Wrong. Do some more research about CRS.

Uh huh. Roll eyes.

 

https://globalbanks.com/crs-stands-for/

[Yumthai]

27 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Uh huh. Roll eyes.

 

https://globalbanks.com/crs-stands-for/

Better to get proper information at source:

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264267992-5-en.pdf?expires=1734599893&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=72249184EFD01B2B2D000287B440B2CA

 

General Reporting Requirements

 

4. the account balance or value (including, in the case of a Cash Value Insurance Contract or Annuity Contract, the Cash Value or surrender value) as of the end of the relevant calendar year or other appropriate reporting period or, if the account was closed during such year or period, the closure of the account;

 

5. in the case of any Custodial Account:

a) the total gross amount of interest, the total gross amount of dividends, and the total gross amount of other income generated with respect to the assets held in the account, in each case paid or credited to the account (or with respect to the account) during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period; and

b) the total gross proceeds from the sale or redemption of Financial Assets paid or credited to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period with respect to which the Reporting Financial Institution acted as a custodian, broker, nominee, or otherwise as an agent for the Account Holder;

6. in the case of any Depository Account, the total gross amount of interest paid or credited to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period; and

 

7. in the case of any account not described in subparagraph A(5) or (6), the total gross amount paid or credited to the Account Holder with respect to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period with respect to which the Reporting Financial Institution is the obligor or debtor, including the aggregate amount of any redemption payments made to the Account Holder during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period.

 

Full transactions history is never to be reported.

 

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Yumthai said:

Better to get proper information at source:

https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/docserver/9789264267992-5-en.pdf?expires=1734599893&id=id&accname=guest&checksum=72249184EFD01B2B2D000287B440B2CA

 

General Reporting Requirements

 

4. the account balance or value (including, in the case of a Cash Value Insurance Contract or Annuity Contract, the Cash Value or surrender value) as of the end of the relevant calendar year or other appropriate reporting period or, if the account was closed during such year or period, the closure of the account;

 

5. in the case of any Custodial Account:

a) the total gross amount of interest, the total gross amount of dividends, and the total gross amount of other income generated with respect to the assets held in the account, in each case paid or credited to the account (or with respect to the account) during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period; and

b) the total gross proceeds from the sale or redemption of Financial Assets paid or credited to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period with respect to which the Reporting Financial Institution acted as a custodian, broker, nominee, or otherwise as an agent for the Account Holder;

6. in the case of any Depository Account, the total gross amount of interest paid or credited to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period; and

 

7. in the case of any account not described in subparagraph A(5) or (6), the total gross amount paid or credited to the Account Holder with respect to the account during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period with respect to which the Reporting Financial Institution is the obligor or debtor, including the aggregate amount of any redemption payments made to the Account Holder during the calendar year or other appropriate reporting period.

 

Full transactions history is never to be reported.

 

OK but in any case the concept of privacy in banking is basically dead. Also as far as Thailand taxation for foreigners Thai Revenue will see your International transfers.

[Yumthai]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

OK but in any case the concept of privacy in banking is basically dead.

Only if you have informed your foreign banks you reside in Thailand.

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Also as far as Thailand taxation for foreigners Thai Revenue will see your International transfers.

TRD will not get this information from CRS reports. They could get it from your Thai bank accounts if they have access to it, supposedly if there's a suspicion you've committed a crime.