Help needed with one question about UK frozen state pension.

[Keith5588]

Hi, I would love to know the answer to this.

 

The amounts I use are not meant to be exact.

Personally I think freezing the UK pension depending upon which country you decide to live is wrong but for this post I don’t want a big discussion about whether you should inform the DWP or not.

The UK state pension is now classed as a benefit and so you should inform the DWP where you are living by law.

So I am assuming that you totally inform the DWP everything.    I am not prepared at the moment to contact the DWP directly.

 

I will use an example.

A 75 year old UK male started his UK state 10 years ago in 2014 receiving £100 per week and came to Thailand. His pension was frozen and so he is still receiving £100 per week.

If he lived in the UK, the Philippines or other countries that have an agreement so that the UK pension is not frozen he would now be receiving £200 pw.

The man goes to the Philippines and immediately informs the DWP that he is there. His pension is increased to £200 pw. 185 days later he returns to Thailand and stays in Thailand for future years.

 

A Youtuber and some other people has said that this mans UK state pension will remain at £200 pw for future years.

 

I disagree, after this man returns to Thailand I think that his UK state pension will revert to the original frozen level of £100 pw. Maybe it will stay at £200 pw until the end of the UK fiscal year and then revert back to the original frozen level of £100 pw but that is irrelevant for this discussion.

 

I am only basing what I think on reading different forums in the past, there has been a lot of discussion, partitions, lobbying in the House of Commons etc.

There must be many UK elderly expats who have been living in Thailand and receiving a frozen UK state pension for 10 years or more. If these people could spend 185 days in the Philippines or the UK to permanently change their UK state pension to the current larger amount when they return to live in Thailand they would be very silly not to do so if they can. I have never read of anyone doing this.

Also for me and many others the frozen pension would not be much of a problem if after some large pension increases like the last few years you can receive these increases by taking a 185 day holiday to the Philippines!

 

So the question is:-

In the future, let’s say 3 years from now is this man’s UK state pension £100 pw or £200 pw

[DaLa]

I don't honestly know, How about having a 'trusted' friend in the Philippines use your debit card there once or twice a month. Set a limit and maybe that will fix the inequality that the system promotes.

[oxo1947]

I don't want to take it off subject --but does anyone know how the  Philippines got this agreement with the UK--it couldn't have been about pensions as PI doesn't have one--& it wasn't about health care. It seems that if the Thai government had any sense, they would look at getting the same agreement as then a large part of  their ex-pat community here would be putting a lot more money back into Thailand.

[treetops]

4 hours ago, oxo1947 said:

I don't want to take it off subject --but does anyone know how the  Philippines got this agreement with the UK--it couldn't have been about pensions as PI doesn't have one--& it wasn't about health care.

 

Can't vouch for it being true, but I read that the agreement with the Philippines was to keep the flow of healthcare staff from there to the UK sweet as the UK system would collapse without them.

[oxo1947]

50 minutes ago, treetops said:

Can't vouch for it being true, but I read that the agreement with the Philippines was to keep the flow of healthcare staff from there to the UK sweet as the UK system would collapse without them.

I dont think so treetops---as they have to pay them the same as current nurses --they would head their anyway---as UK is always advertising for foreign care/Nurse ---and the UK lose most of their nurses to Oz NZ etc with a much higher pay rate....... 

When you look at the countries UK would pay full pension in-- there seems to be no consistency---Chile,  Israel, South Korea, Japan,Mauritius,Turkey.....a whole other list -- you expect the EU & commonwealth countries but there is a lot of others and it just says UK has an agreement with--doesn't say what sort of agreement--but you would think someone in the Thai government might be cute enough to find out. ......yer maybe not......

[treetops]

1 minute ago, oxo1947 said:

I dont think so treetops---as they have to pay them the same as current nurses --they would head their anyway---as UK is always advertising for foreign care/Nurse

 

But they would be less likely to head there without the agreement perhaps, if they are thinking of provision for their retirement years?

[oxo1947]

45 minutes ago, treetops said:

But they would be less likely to head there without the agreement perhaps, if they are thinking of provision for their retirement years?

No..I just wondered what is the Agreement these countries have that allows them to keep their pension current. I looked up the nurse thing---they have agents all over PI which will get you to the UK if your certificate are in line with what they want.

[hotandsticky]

8 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

Hi, I would love to know the answer to this.

 

The amounts I use are not meant to be exact.

Personally I think freezing the UK pension depending upon which country you decide to live is wrong but for this post I don’t want a big discussion about whether you should inform the DWP or not.

The UK state pension is now classed as a benefit and so you should inform the DWP where you are living by law.

So I am assuming that you totally inform the DWP everything.    I am not prepared at the moment to contact the DWP directly.

 

I will use an example.

A 75 year old UK male started his UK state 10 years ago in 2014 receiving £100 per week and came to Thailand. His pension was frozen and so he is still receiving £100 per week.

If he lived in the UK, the Philippines or other countries that have an agreement so that the UK pension is not frozen he would now be receiving £200 pw.

The man goes to the Philippines and immediately informs the DWP that he is there. His pension is increased to £200 pw. 185 days later he returns to Thailand and stays in Thailand for future years.

 

A Youtuber and some other people has said that this mans UK state pension will remain at £200 pw for future years.

 

I disagree, after this man returns to Thailand I think that his UK state pension will revert to the original frozen level of £100 pw. Maybe it will stay at £200 pw until the end of the UK fiscal year and then revert back to the original frozen level of £100 pw but that is irrelevant for this discussion.

 

I am only basing what I think on reading different forums in the past, there has been a lot of discussion, partitions, lobbying in the House of Commons etc.

There must be many UK elderly expats who have been living in Thailand and receiving a frozen UK state pension for 10 years or more. If these people could spend 185 days in the Philippines or the UK to permanently change their UK state pension to the current larger amount when they return to live in Thailand they would be very silly not to do so if they can. I have never read of anyone doing this.

Also for me and many others the frozen pension would not be much of a problem if after some large pension increases like the last few years you can receive these increases by taking a 185 day holiday to the Philippines!

 

So the question is:-

In the future, let’s say 3 years from now is this man’s UK state pension £100 pw or £200 pw

 

 

I agree with you, I think that You Tuber (as helpful as he tries to be) is wrong.

 

 

I have correspondence from DWP that suggests that on returning to Thailand the pension revert to the original frozen amount when you first went to Thailand.

[ballpoint]

8 minutes ago, oxo1947 said:

No..I just wondered what is the Agreement these countries have that allows them to keep their pension current. I looked up the nurse thing---they have agents all over PI which will get you to the UK if your certificate are in line with what they want.

 

It looks like countries that have a lot of citizens working in the UK make these deals to protect their rights.  So the large number of Filipina nurses in the UK could very well be the reason.  I can't see Thailand doing such a deal to protect UK citizens here unless they get something out of it too.

 

"The UK has agreements with some other countries to protect the social security rights of workers moving between the 2 countries.

These are sometimes known as ‘bilateral agreements’ or ‘reciprocal agreements’.

If you live in one of the following countries and receive a UK State Pension, you will usually get an increase in your pension every year:

Barbados
Bermuda
Bosnia-Herzegovina
Gibraltar
Guernsey
the Isle of Man
Israel
Jamaica
Jersey
Kosovo
Mauritius
Montenegro
North Macedonia
the Philippines
Serbia
Turkey
USA
The UK has social security agreements with Canada and New Zealand, but you cannot get a yearly increase in your UK State Pension if you live in either of those countries".

 

Countries where we pay an annual increase in the State Pension - GOV.UK

 

 

And, in order to "unfreeze" your pension, you must return to the UK, not to one of the agreement countries, such as the Philippines.

 

"Your State Pension will only increase each year if you live in:

the European Economic Area (EEA)
Gibraltar
Switzerland
countries that have a social security agreement with the UK (but you cannot get increases in Canada or New Zealand)
You will not get yearly increases if you live outside these countries.

Your pension will go up to the current rate if you return to live in the UK".

 

If you later return to, say, Thailand, your pension will go back to the old frozen amount.

 

State Pension if you retire abroad: How your pension is affected - GOV.UK

 

[Keith5588]

10 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

I agree with you, I think that You Tuber (as helpful as he tries to be) is wrong.

 

 

I have correspondence from DWP that suggests that on returning to Thailand the pension revert to the original frozen amount when you first went to Thailand.

Thank you @hotandsticky for your comment and also bringing this post back on topic, much appreciated.

 

I think any query about this to the DWP has to be worded very carefully. Some have said just go back to Thailand from the Philippines and your pension will stay high. It will stay high and will receive increases if you do not inform the DWP, but that would be strictly fraud just the same as not informing DWP that you left the UK in the first place.

Again I am not judging anyone for what they do as the system is unfair.

 

 

[Goodison]

9 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

Hi, I would love to know the answer to this.

 

The amounts I use are not meant to be exact.

Personally I think freezing the UK pension depending upon which country you decide to live is wrong but for this post I don’t want a big discussion about whether you should inform the DWP or not.

The UK state pension is now classed as a benefit and so you should inform the DWP where you are living by law.

So I am assuming that you totally inform the DWP everything.    I am not prepared at the moment to contact the DWP directly.

 

I will use an example.

A 75 year old UK male started his UK state 10 years ago in 2014 receiving £100 per week and came to Thailand. His pension was frozen and so he is still receiving £100 per week.

If he lived in the UK, the Philippines or other countries that have an agreement so that the UK pension is not frozen he would now be receiving £200 pw.

The man goes to the Philippines and immediately informs the DWP that he is there. His pension is increased to £200 pw. 185 days later he returns to Thailand and stays in Thailand for future years.

 

A Youtuber and some other people has said that this mans UK state pension will remain at £200 pw for future years.

 

I disagree, after this man returns to Thailand I think that his UK state pension will revert to the original frozen level of £100 pw. Maybe it will stay at £200 pw until the end of the UK fiscal year and then revert back to the original frozen level of £100 pw but that is irrelevant for this discussion.

 

I am only basing what I think on reading different forums in the past, there has been a lot of discussion, partitions, lobbying in the House of Commons etc.

There must be many UK elderly expats who have been living in Thailand and receiving a frozen UK state pension for 10 years or more. If these people could spend 185 days in the Philippines or the UK to permanently change their UK state pension to the current larger amount when they return to live in Thailand they would be very silly not to do so if they can. I have never read of anyone doing this.

Also for me and many others the frozen pension would not be much of a problem if after some large pension increases like the last few years you can receive these increases by taking a 185 day holiday to the Philippines!

 

So the question is:-

In the future, let’s say 3 years from now is this man’s UK state pension £100 pw or £200 pw

 

[Denim]

Put another way.

 

A man starts receiving his state pension.

 

He stays in the UK for 4 years and receives the annual increase.

He then honestly informs the DWP that he is retiring to Thailand.

 

The question  therefore is , if he retires to Thailand does he receive his pension plus the annual increases or , once  he departs the UK does his pension drop back to his original first amount ?

 

What a can of worms !

[Goodison]

This topic of resetting UK frozen state pension was discussed in the link slow. Mike Lister has 2 comments that explain it. If you go the UK, Phillipines or any other Country where the state pension is indexed then to reset your frozen is not about the number of days you stay there but about getting the DWP to recognize you are habitually resident there, otherwise once you return to Thailand your pension will go back to the same rate it was when you left Thailand.