Warning Signs: The Looming Collapse of a Critical Ocean System

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, rickudon said:

Oh, and one little point about water vapour for ThaiBeachlover - it might be a significant greenhouse gas, but its presence is purely a temperature response - warmer air can hold more water vapour. So nothing you can do about it directly.

Exactly. It can't be taxed and is therefore ignored by the high and mighty that want to rule us all.

 

I wonder when they will accept that being Canute doesn't work, and start doing activities to mitigate the impact of climate change? I suspect they won't at all, as that is a cost and not money in their pocket. Windmills, solar and EVs are so much more profitable, building seawalls and river embankments not much at all.

 

BTW, the oceans are full of water that only needs desalinating to be potable, as the Saudis have been doing for decades using oil. How many solar powered desalination plants are on the coasts of countries with a water crisis? I bet the answer is something like 0.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My GP sits in a chair all day talking, no science there.

As for all the hospital equipment you mentioned, all operated by technicians, no doctors or scientists there.

Some on here do get a bit carried away, given by the misinformation they post.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Actually, I think this is NOT the case.

 

We all know how many doctors make their choices of what to prescribe, and it is not based on science.

 

Also, medical doctors are NOT scientists, and do not pretend to be.

 

Medical doctors can also be scientists if they have had the extra education required.

Or, they can, maybe, be self-taught scientists.

I am speaking of the Natural Sciences...because....Social Sciences is  NOT science.

 

 

You speak sense, unlike some.

[GammaGlobulin]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You speak sense, unlike some.

 

True.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

20 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

And you are not believing scientists? What about your doctor? Sure, you don't believe him too? 

I'm not a fan of western doctors having been misdiagnosed with some conditions by western doctors for many decades.

I first complained about a certain condition in the early 2000s and at least 2 western doctors didn't diagnose it. It was finally diagnosed by a Thai doctor in five minutes without even an examination based entirely on a description of the problem. The Thai doctor was correct. I suffered for over a decade because your oh so great western doctors were useless. So much for science.

[newbee2022]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not a fan of western doctors having been misdiagnosed with some conditions by western doctors for many decades.

I first complained about a certain condition in the early 2000s and at least 2 western doctors didn't diagnose it. It was finally diagnosed by a Thai doctor in five minutes without even an examination based entirely on a description of the problem. The Thai doctor was correct. I suffered for over a decade because your oh so great western doctors were useless. So much for science.

I guess the Thai doctor studied Medicine. So, his expertise/diagnosis came just out of the blue?? Not based on science??

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

I guess the Thai doctor studied Medicine. So, his expertise/diagnosis came just out of the blue?? Not based on science??

No. It was based on experience.

 

Nothing to say about the useless western doctors?

 

BTW, I worked with a surgeon that had professor in his title, which would make him the nearest to a scientist in all my years working in hospitals. Complete wally.

 

I also experienced many scientists in Antarctica as they go there in the summer  to do various studies, some of which were biological in nature. Like any group of people, some were sensible people ( doing sensible research ) and some were complete buffoons ( doing stupid research ).

[impulse]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That would be a good characterisation of science as it is today.

 

The problem with science as it is practiced today is the way it's being steered to take money out of a bunch of pockets and put it into a few.  Studies that don't accomplish that goal aren't funded, and if a funded study accidentally conflicts, it's squelched.

 

Climate change is real.  It's been happening for billions of years.  It's unstoppable.  (Just like the moving magnetic pole) The way to deal with it is to have economies strong enough to afford to remediate its effects.  Otherwise, millions will starve when the next volcano causes a temperature drop and crop failure.  As has happened repeatedly during human existence.  And long before cars and air conditioning and server farms.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

The problem with science as it is practiced today is the way it's being steered to take money out of a bunch of pockets and put it into a few.  Studies that don't accomplish that goal aren't funded, and if a funded study accidentally conflicts, it's squelched.

 

Climate change is real.  It's been happening for billions of years.  It's unstoppable.  (Just like the moving magnetic pole) The way to deal with it is to have economies strong enough to afford to remediate its effects.  Otherwise, millions will starve when the next volcano causes a temperature drop and crop failure.  As has happened repeatedly during human existence.  And long before cars and air conditioning and server farms.

 

 

I find that almost every conundrum about modern politics can be explained if greed is entered into the equation.

 

The powers that be are so lackadaisical about preparing for the effects of climate change that one suspects they are not serious about doing anything.

They've been telling us for a long while now that we need to do something. So far that includes more taxes, and a lot of hot air conferences. Building solar powered desalination plants, sea walls and river embankments, not so much.

[gamb00ler]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That would be a good characterisation of science as it is today. Hardly knows anything. Can't even prevent cancer.

A typical silly comment from you.

 

There's probably a few thousand factors when considering the causation of human cancer.  So, in reality there's a few thousand solutions that need to be found.  There's an excellent chance that many of those causes cannot be circumvented as they are built into the basic processes of carbon based life.

 

Science also cannot prevent our sun's aging over time until it eventually expands and kills everything on Earth.  Are you going to use that fact to denigrate science?

 

Worrying about why science is so dumb that it cannot prevent cancer is probably shortening your life.

[thaibeachlovers]

38 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

A typical silly comment from you.

 

There's probably a few thousand factors when considering the causation of human cancer.  So, in reality there's a few thousand solutions that need to be found.  There's an excellent chance that many of those causes cannot be circumvented as they are built into the basic processes of carbon based life.

 

Science also cannot prevent our sun's aging over time until it eventually expands and kills everything on Earth.  Are you going to use that fact to denigrate science?

 

Worrying about why science is so dumb that it cannot prevent cancer is probably shortening your life.

and that is a silly post from you. Of course science is primitive now, as if it were advanced it could prevent cancer. Wittering about thousands of factors is just deflection. A super computer can probably handle millions of factors in minutes if not seconds. It's just that our scientists are too dumb to know the right info to imput for the correct answer

 

It's well known that the sun will expand eventually.

 

I don't expect much from scientists, so why would I worry about that? My life has already exceeded it's use by date, and I have nothing to fear crossing the great divide, hopefully not too far away. The human species is heading for calamity, and I'd rather not be around for that.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and that is a silly post from you. Of course science is primitive now, as if it were advanced it could prevent cancer. Wittering about thousands of factors is just deflection. A super computer can probably handle millions of factors in minutes if not seconds. It's just that our scientists are too dumb to know the right info to imput for the correct answer

 

It's well known that the sun will expand eventually.

 

I don't expect much from scientists, so why would I worry about that? My life has already exceeded it's use by date, and I have nothing to fear crossing the great divide, hopefully not too far away. The human species is heading for calamity, and I'd rather not be around for that.

You seem to be under the impression every human on the planet has exactly the same DNA, which would enable cancer to be prevented. Everyone is different, that's why DNA testing is a gold standard for establishing guilt or innocence in courts.

 

When you say scientists are dumb, you're including me in that insult to the profession.

 

May I remind you that an uneducated Thai woman took all your money, how dumb was that?

[rickudon]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. It can't be taxed and is therefore ignored by the high and mighty that want to rule us all.

 

I wonder when they will accept that being Canute doesn't work, and start doing activities to mitigate the impact of climate change? I suspect they won't at all, as that is a cost and not money in their pocket. Windmills, solar and EVs are so much more profitable, building seawalls and river embankments not much at all.

 

BTW, the oceans are full of water that only needs desalinating to be potable, as the Saudis have been doing for decades using oil. How many solar powered desalination plants are on the coasts of countries with a water crisis? I bet the answer is something like 0.

Mitigation will probably not work either. Ok you can do managed retreat against sea level rise, but still expensive, give everyone an air conditioner, but that causes more energy to be released, aggravating temperatures. As temperatures go up, so will the problems multiply - and tipping points will be more likely to be reached - worst case scenario, Permian style mass extinction. Actually trying to resolve the causes will be much better in the long run.

 

You talk about Cancer, well what is best, eliminating the causes, or trying to cure it?

[spidermike007]

The sceptic will argue that anything we do could not possibly influence the climate, or effect the atmosphere. The planet is simply too large, and the population is too small to have any effect. Let the ships dump whatever they want into the ocean. The ocean is simply too large for anything we do to damage it. 

 

This frees them to buy as many plastic bottles as they please, drive filthy diesel vehicles, and behave as if nothing effects anything. 

 

It's not us. It is just a cycle. We are not responsible. 

 

 

[Hummin]

Simple question, can we change climate locally at land and sea? 

[GammaGlobulin]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm not a fan of western doctors having been misdiagnosed with some conditions by western doctors for many decades.

I first complained about a certain condition in the early 2000s and at least 2 western doctors didn't diagnose it. It was finally diagnosed by a Thai doctor in five minutes without even an examination based entirely on a description of the problem. The Thai doctor was correct. I suffered for over a decade because your oh so great western doctors were useless. So much for science.

 

I already TOLD you.

Doctors are NOT scientists.

Please do not say that the fault is with science.

Doctors do NOT practice the scientific method, and are totally NOT scientists.

 

Doctors are ARTISTS....a little dab here, and another dab there.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, rickudon said:

Actually trying to resolve the causes will be much better in the long run.

Question. If we stopped using all oil based products tomorrow- none in use anywhere on the planet- how long would it take for the desired temperature to be reached?

Is all that CO2 in the atmosphere going to magically vanish?

Pity they keep destroying the rain forests. They must have contained a lot of carbon that has been released by burning the trees to make way for monoculture plantations of oil palm or to raise cattle on for hamburgers.

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Hummin said:

Simple question, can we change climate locally at land and sea? 

Of course not. Nature is far mightier than all of humanity that ever existed put together.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, rickudon said:

You talk about Cancer, well what is best, eliminating the causes, or trying to cure it?

As they can do neither it's a bit academic.

Just cutting bits off our bodies is not a cure. It merely stops the cancer killing us sooner.

I had a prostatectomy which stopped me dying some years ago but it caused health problems I didn't have before. I classify myself as more unhealthy than I was before they cut a bit out of me.

 

 

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Of course not. Nature is far mightier than all of humanity that ever existed put together.

So the deforestation of Thailand from nearly 80% natural old Forrest to 28%  had no impact of the local enviroment in Thailand? 

 

The reefs attacked world wide by overfishing, entangled nets destroying them, the pollution, bottom trawling for fish and shell, have no impact at all? 

 

Just the rivers goes from clear water, now is muddy and full of sediments, is one thing because of deforestation, 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

So the deforestation of Thailand from nearly 80% natural old Forrest to 28%  had no impact of the local enviroment in Thailand? 

 

The reefs attacked world wide by overfishing, entangled nets destroying them, the pollution, bottom trawling for fish and shell, have no impact at all? 

 

Just the rivers goes from clear water, now is muddy and full of sediments, is one thing because of deforestation, 

You tried to change the question from climate to environment. Naughty!

 

None of that, IMO, is climate related. That's just humans destroying the environment as usual.

 

BTW, those forests may have vanished but the land isn't bare. It's covered with trees. Zero change climate wise.

[Hummin]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

None of that, IMO, is climate related. That's just humans destroying the environment as usual.

 

BTW, those forests may have vanished but the land isn't bare. It's covered with trees. Zero change climate wise.

Oh, my, 

[BritManToo]

24 minutes ago, Hummin said:

So the deforestation of Thailand from nearly 80% natural old Forrest to 28%  had no impact of the local enviroment in Thailand? 

 

The reefs attacked world wide by overfishing, entangled nets destroying them, the pollution, bottom trawling for fish and shell, have no impact at all? 

 

Just the rivers goes from clear water, now is muddy and full of sediments, is one thing because of deforestation, 

Dude, only reducing CO2 matters,

Forget deforestation, forget garbage dumping, forget pollution, get with the plan!

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Dude, only reducing CO2 matters,

Forget deforestation, forget garbage dumping, forget pollution, get with the plan!

I know, it becomes just pure stupidity, since there is so many chain reactions because of all human activities on the planet, combined with natural cycles, that makes local and global climate changes. 

 

Those of us who have been riding motorbikes, know how it feels when you enter an healthy old Forrest and how the temperature drops imidiately just as one little detail.

 

Natural healthy forests is nature's own air-condition system. 

 

All rivers full of sediments leading water with higher temperatures as another example

[BritManToo]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

 

Those of us who have been riding motorbikes, know how it feels when you enter an healthy old Forrest and how the temperature drops imidiately just as one little detail.

 

Natural healthy forests is nature's own air-condition system. 

Agree, but if you really cared you'd be riding a bicycle or bike charged from your own solar. Motorcycles burn oil and make CO2.

[Hummin]

46 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You tried to change the question from climate to environment. Naughty!

 

None of that, IMO, is climate related. That's just humans destroying the environment as usual.

 

BTW, those forests may have vanished but the land isn't bare. It's covered with trees. Zero change climate wise.

Coffe time, enjoy reading 

 

Forests affect climate in three different ways: they absorb the greenhouse gas – carbon dioxide – from the atmosphere and help keep the planet cool; they evaporate water to the atmosphere and increase cloudiness, which also helps keep the planet cool; and they are dark and absorb sunlight (the albedo effect), warming

 

Edit note: Farmland covered by fruit trees, oil or rubber trees, have no effect at all. We talking about old forest systems which takes 100 of years to rebuild

 

https://phys.org/news/2007-04-tropical-forests-earth-air-conditioner.html

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Agree, but if you really cared you'd be riding a bicycle or bike charged from your own solar. Motorcycles burn oil and make CO2.

I ride motorbikes, and not 8l sports car or truck for fun. I do my share. 

 

It is a political question, not for me to sacrifice myself, because everyone else doesn't get it, and to be honest I wouldn't make any difference, or anyone who stribe to be zero environmental impact.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/7/2024 at 12:32 PM, BritManToo said:

Agree, but if you really cared you'd be riding a bicycle or bike charged from your own solar. Motorcycles burn oil and make CO2.

The only thing that makes them reluctant to say we should be using oxen for pulling wagons and horses for getting around is that they belch methane.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/7/2024 at 12:33 PM, Hummin said:

Edit note: Farmland covered by fruit trees, oil or rubber trees, have no effect at all. We talking about old forest systems which takes 100 of years to rebuild

Rubbish. All plants absorb carbon. Even grass is a carbon sink.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/7/2024 at 12:39 PM, Hummin said:

I ride motorbikes, and not 8l sports car or truck for fun. I do my share. 

 

It is a political question, not for me to sacrifice myself, because everyone else doesn't get it, and to be honest I wouldn't make any difference, or anyone who stribe to be zero environmental impact.

 

 

Nobody, IMO, needs to worry about it anyway, as IMO it's all BS that we can change anything. Who came up with this 3 degrees thing anyway? It might be a great marketing tool but ignores that while one part of the planet is hot another is cold. It's not like the entire planet is the same temperature.

 

IMO it's all just BS designed to make us accept higher taxes.