Help & Suggestions please as next year I will have no UK address

[Virtualrecluse]

19 minutes ago, topt said:

Inland revenue is one thing, passport renewal is completely separate.

I am non resident for tax in UK and HMRC have my address here. No issue when I have renewed my passport. 

 

Resident or non resident for tax has no affect on citizenship or more accurately your domicile - although that may be changing.

 

Strictly speaking if you spend less than a certain amount of time in the UK you automatically should become non resident however I think if you don't make it clear to them(HMRC)/give them another address/complete a tax form etc then possibly unlikely they will notice.......

Not sure how the Spanish residency affects that because I believe that comes with tax implications?

Thanks. I pay income tax in Spain as I work there. Now I have to submit a tax declaration to HMRC every year as my minimal dividends there are over the miserable threshhold. Now I am also dealing with CGT there over inherited assets. As non-res for over 25 years, I was off their radar for decades until the above started in 2021. I can see that a UK address is prob. unnecessary when applying for a passport; it's more a concern of what could happen if I no longer have a physical address for banking/financial/accounting purposes. Perhaps this is adequately resolved by using one of the above post box services... 

[georgegeorgia]

10 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

I suggest you keep stupid pointless unfunny posts out of serious discussions!

BTW can I also suggest you learn the difference between a "Loch" and a "river"!

What have you got underneath that tartan  dress Scotty ?

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, georgegeorgia said:

What have you got underneath that tartan  dress Scotty ?

More brains that you will ever have!

[Nemo.]

I use UkPOSTBOX. 21 quid a month, its a "real" address so banks accept it, they scan post so you can see it online. They store physical post for like 10 pence a month (eg cards) and you can itbposted at standard PO rates where you like so can be in UK when visiting eg at a hotel l or send to address abroad.

 

Only ever had one issue and that was the Halifax (aka as a bunch of cun#$ who closed all my accounts after demanding I prove I really lived there)

 

A bigger issue though is DONT invest house money in Thailand. You are better off renting your house or investing in UK, then using the rent/dividends/interest to rent in Thailand.

 

Also you will be subject to capital gains tax on your house sale for the tears in Thailand.  Ouch.

[Nemo.]

20 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

I think I will use a mail forward company but at the moment am having difficulty fully understanding.

 

Concerning the UK address that they give you.

A “Street address” has been mentioned  or “A virtual address”.

I assume that they cannot give everyone an actual physical address, that would be totally unmanageable.

 

So what address do they give you? Some offer up to 10 different address locations. Let’s say we select Manchester. Do they give the same Manchester “Street address” to all their customers which is actually their office?

Then they sort all deliveries by the persons name?  Or maybe they give the same address to every customer but add a reference number at the end which is different for each customer.

 

Thanks for any help with this

Keith

Yes and Halifax, from henceforth called a bunch of cun@$, closed all my accounts after a review demanding Ingive then utility bills.

 

So not perfect. Halifax don't allow non residents.

 

Being an expat is getting harder and harder.

[Andyfez]

Don't forget to get a Thai driving license. If you have no address in the UK you'll be unable to renew your UK one.

[Toby1947]

Simple answer is don't do it, there's thousands of skint mugs like you there. Never sell bricks & mortar especially in a civilised society, remember the T shirt slogan No Money No Honey, 

[john donson]

if I could go back in time, I would rent out my home, not sell it...

[rwill]

Find a bank that will allow you to use a foreign address and phone number.

 

Schwab international is one that you can use.  The one thing about them is you need 25,000 USD to open an account (or the equivalent amount in stock transfered to your account with them.

But you can also get a debit card with them that covers ATM frees.  Also international wires are free (they show a $15 fee but immediately reimburse it.

From US banks you can transfer money to them for free but I don't know about from a UK bank.  You would have to ask them.

[Keith5588]

A bit of a summary

Thanks @Nemo. 

You are now the 3^rd person using ukpostbox.  I have had another look, it is £12 per month if you select a Pool, Dorset address, £21 if you select a Central London address. So for me £12 per month and if pay for a year it states 2 months free.  The other processing charges look reasonable e.g. for forwarding a letter £0.90 per item + postal cost.

 

Myukpost seems to be a bit more expensive at £20 per month + £1.50 per letter handled.

@scottiejohn I have just had another look and if I select the £20 per month plan it states “Price fixed for Lifetime” so I am guessing it was £12 when you started.

 

I sent messages yesterday to ukpostbox, ghostmail and myukpost. Only myukpost have replied and they replied quickly and I have just sent them another message to clarify some charges.

 

[VBF]

7 hours ago, Andyfez said:

Don't forget to get a Thai driving license. If you have no address in the UK you'll be unable to renew your UK one.

@Keith5588 has already stated that he has a Thai driving licence and has no further need of a UK one but yes that's a valid point.

 

Also Keith, bear in mind that as you're over 70, you probably know that any UK licence is only valid for 3 years at a time now, so once it expires, you're basically done. I'm coming up against that one next year when I turn 70, however I do live in UK so not a problem for me.

 

Regarding bank accounts, I haven't read this whole thread thoroughly but have you considered banks in the Isle of Man / Channel Islands?  They are more geared up for UK expats.

 

Good luck with the move mate 👍

[Letseng]

On 12/15/2024 at 5:29 PM, Keith5588 said:

I think for someone younger than myself that would be good advice. I will be 72 next year, it will become more and more of an agrevation to sell it. Also I can see no financial advantage in keeping it at my age. Also it will be very unlikely that I will ever want to return to the UK but if that unlikely event happens I can rent a place to live.

As someone who had planned never to return we sold our property in EU.  we are now in a situation where we may be better off returning. The rental option 20 yrs ago looked easy solution. Now rental properties at an affordable price are hard to find. To restart from scratch is more daunting than it would have been 20 yrs ago. 

 

[Keith5588]

1 hour ago, VBF said:

@Keith5588 has already stated that he has a Thai driving licence and has no further need of a UK one but yes that's a valid point.

 

Also Keith, bear in mind that as you're over 70, you probably know that any UK licence is only valid for 3 years at a time now, so once it expires, you're basically done. I'm coming up against that one next year when I turn 70, however I do live in UK so not a problem for me.

 

Regarding bank accounts, I haven't read this whole thread thoroughly but have you considered banks in the Isle of Man / Channel Islands?  They are more geared up for UK expats.

 

Good luck with the move mate 👍

@VBF  Thanks for reminding me about my UK Driving Licence. I renewed it in 2023 and it expires in 2026. I will be in the UK next year and plan to renew it if I can renew over 8 months before it expires. I will check but it’s now not that important to me. If in the future I ever visit the UK and if I don’t have a UK Driving licence I believe that I can drive using my Thai Driving licence.

 

I haven’t considered bank accounts in the Isle of Man / Channel Islands. Up until now I plan to open accounts with some of the newer online only banks like Starling. Chase, Revolut, and of course Wise, hoping these will not send any letter post when instructed not to. Also that they will only ask for proof of UK residency when initially opening an account. I could be totally wrong!

 

I am quite ignorant concerning opening a bank account in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. I have assumed that these accounts are used by wealthy people to help avoid paying some UK taxes and so they probably need to pay more or meet high deposit amounts for these accounts, but again I might be totally wrong.

 

But you have a good point that they might be better for expats, I assume they would not close accounts dependant on where you live.

On this thread it has been mentioned that Halifax has closed an account because the holder cannot prove they are living in the UK. I am aware that this has been happening but I cannot understand why. Many expats that have left the UK formally worked for many years in the UK and have assets in the UK, and they need a UK bank account. I have read that for some bank accounts that have been closed the reason cannot possibly be money laundering so I am at a loss why they close accounts.

 

Can I ask do you know how the Isle of Man / Channel Islands bank accounts are better for UK expats?

Maybe I should start another post?

 

Thanks for the good wishes.

[Keith5588]

9 minutes ago, Letseng said:

As someone who had planned never to return we sold our property in EU.  we are now in a situation where we may be better off returning. The rental option 20 yrs ago looked easy solution. Now rental properties at an affordable price are hard to find. To restart from scratch is more daunting than it would have been 20 yrs ago. 

 

 @Letseng  Thank you for your message and thoughts. Can I ask your age and why you think you may be better off returning to your country in the EU rather than staying in Thailand?

[VBF]

10 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

@VBF  Thanks for reminding me about my UK Driving Licence. I renewed it in 2023 and it expires in 2026. I will be in the UK next year and plan to renew it if I can renew over 8 months before it expires. I will check but it’s now not that important to me. If in the future I ever visit the UK and if I don’t have a UK Driving licence I believe that I can drive using my Thai Driving licence.

 

I haven’t considered bank accounts in the Isle of Man / Channel Islands. Up until now I plan to open accounts with some of the newer online only banks like Starling. Chase, Revolut, and of course Wise, hoping these will not send any letter post when instructed not to. Also that they will only ask for proof of UK residency when initially opening an account. I could be totally wrong!

 

I am quite ignorant concerning opening a bank account in the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands. I have assumed that these accounts are used by wealthy people to help avoid paying some UK taxes and so they probably need to pay more or meet high deposit amounts for these accounts, but again I might be totally wrong.

 

But you have a good point that they might be better for expats, I assume they would not close accounts dependant on where you live.

On this thread it has been mentioned that Halifax has closed an account because the holder cannot prove they are living in the UK. I am aware that this has been happening but I cannot understand why. Many expats that have left the UK formally worked for many years in the UK and have assets in the UK, and they need a UK bank account. I have read that for some bank accounts that have been closed the reason cannot possibly be money laundering so I am at a loss why they close accounts.

 

Can I ask do you know how the Isle of Man / Channel Islands bank accounts are better for UK expats?

Maybe I should start another post?

 

Thanks for the good wishes.

I believe that the reason so many UK banks are forcing expats to close their accounts is basically their fear of being caught up in the ever-increasing money laundering regulations. Once you're out of the UK they see it that they may become liable for any rules you may choose to break, plus they may see it as harder to verify what you tell them. I'm not saying this is reasonable but that is how it appears to me. That and, of course they don't see you as a valuable customer if you're miles away - a somewhat parochial view IMO.

 

As regards offshore accounts (IoM / CI) they have traditionally been used by expat workers i.e. guys working in the Middle East or Offshore etc. They pay interest Gross which was an advantage "back in the day", but as the UK banks also do that, that's become irrelevant. 

When I was overseas, I found that the staff of these institutions were more empathetic with working across time zones, currency conversions etc. That may be where you might gain an advantage. As long as you could show that you were where you say you were, they were a lot more relaxed.

There was a time when certain people could hide bank deposits from governments if they chose - Jersey and the IoM offered privacy (aka secrecy). These days, with the various Exchange of Information rules in place, I don't think that applies any more and from what you've said won't bother you anyway.

 

Of course with modern communications (Online banking) things are far easier than when letters and faxes were the norm. 

 

Now I have to admit that my information is probably out of date as I closed my last offshore account over 10 years ago, but the general principle of expats using offshore accounts still applies I think.  I found that private banks NOT closely tied to UK banks were actually more helpful - I used https://nedbankprivatewealth.com/ but one has to deposit significant amounts to qualify - in their parlance be of "high net worth"

 

Any help?

[Keith5588]

An update to clarify my own query.

I have had replies from all the mail forwarding companies and can confirm that the address you are given or can select is not unique to you. It will be an address shared with many other people.

At least two said they provide a unique client ID number which you can add into your address if you wish. If not they will just sort by the addressee’s name.

So I would advise if your name is John Smith take special care to use the provided ID number prominently.

[Keith5588]

41 minutes ago, VBF said:

I believe that the reason so many UK banks are forcing expats to close their accounts is basically their fear of being caught up in the ever-increasing money laundering regulations. Once you're out of the UK they see it that they may become liable for any rules you may choose to break, plus they may see it as harder to verify what you tell them. I'm not saying this is reasonable but that is how it appears to me. That and, of course they don't see you as a valuable customer if you're miles away - a somewhat parochial view IMO.

 

As regards offshore accounts (IoM / CI) they have traditionally been used by expat workers i.e. guys working in the Middle East or Offshore etc. They pay interest Gross which was an advantage "back in the day", but as the UK banks also do that, that's become irrelevant. 

When I was overseas, I found that the staff of these institutions were more empathetic with working across time zones, currency conversions etc. That may be where you might gain an advantage. As long as you could show that you were where you say you were, they were a lot more relaxed.

There was a time when certain people could hide bank deposits from governments if they chose - Jersey and the IoM offered privacy (aka secrecy). These days, with the various Exchange of Information rules in place, I don't think that applies any more and from what you've said won't bother you anyway.

 

Of course with modern communications (Online banking) things are far easier than when letters and faxes were the norm. 

 

Now I have to admit that my information is probably out of date as I closed my last offshore account over 10 years ago, but the general principle of expats using offshore accounts still applies I think.  I found that private banks NOT closely tied to UK banks were actually more helpful - I used https://nedbankprivatewealth.com/ but one has to deposit significant amounts to qualify - in their parlance be of "high net worth"

 

Any help?

@VBF  

Thanks for your thoughts on why some UK banks have closed accounts, you are probably correct. It’s very difficult to speculate when banks and the government seem to be making illogical decisions all the time.

 

Thanks for your explanation about the offshore accounts, it reminds me of speculating about working offshore for the higher pay and tax advantage when I was very young, but I never did. You also explain the past secrecy of these banks, I also thought I had heard that it now much more difficult but I didn’t know why, thanks for explaining.

 

I have just Google searched to find out what Private banks are. From the very little I have read they would not suit me, I might be able to qualify for one but it would be putting “too many eggs in one basket”. I think my plan of having quite a few bank accounts will give me enough peace of mind as it would be unusual if all were closed.

 

[VBF]

14 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

@VBF  

Thanks for your thoughts on why some UK banks have closed accounts, you are probably correct. It’s very difficult to speculate when banks and the government seem to be making illogical decisions all the time.

 

Thanks for your explanation about the offshore accounts, it reminds me of speculating about working offshore for the higher pay and tax advantage when I was very young, but I never did. You also explain the past secrecy of these banks, I also thought I had heard that it now much more difficult but I didn’t know why, thanks for explaining.

 

I have just Google searched to find out what Private banks are. From the very little I have read they would not suit me, I might be able to qualify for one but it would be putting “too many eggs in one basket”. I think my plan of having quite a few bank accounts will give me enough peace of mind as it would be unusual if all were closed.

 

You're right about that - far better to spread your hard-earned and sleep nights!

 

You say "Banks and the government seem to be making illogical decisions all the time" but from their PoV it's all about knowing what we're all doing with our money and where it's being stashed.

 

Over the years, billions of £, $ or whatever have been hidden away by people "evading" tax and the various governments want to stop that. NOT a conspiracy theory, but they have the technology and willingness to do so - the various changes in laws show that to be true. Unfortunately thanks to the billionaires evading taxes, these rules catch us little people trying to legally avoid taxes in the same net! 

Why, I once went into a high street bank in UK and asked them to change a £50 note for me. They refused, citing "money laundering" because I didn't have an account with that bank!

Nobody said it was fair! 🤬

[dayo202]

12 hours ago, Nemo. said:

I use UkPOSTBOX. 21 quid a month, its a "real" address so banks accept it, they scan post so you can see it online. They store physical post for like 10 pence a month (eg cards) and you can itbposted at standard PO rates where you like so can be in UK when visiting eg at a hotel l or send to address abroad.

 

Only ever had one issue and that was the Halifax (aka as a bunch of cun#$ who closed all my accounts after demanding I prove I really lived there)

 

A bigger issue though is DONT invest house money in Thailand. You are better off renting your house or investing in UK, then using the rent/dividends/interest to rent in Thailand.

 

Also you will be subject to capital gains tax on your house sale for the tears in Thailand.  Ouch.

I been with UkPOSTBOX for 8 years, also my bank is Halifax PLC.

That's a little worrying that Halifax closed you down.

When did Halifax shut you down ?.

And how long was you with UkPOSTBOX before that they decided to close your accounts ?

[OJAS]

On 12/15/2024 at 5:29 PM, Keith5588 said:

I think for someone younger than myself that would be good advice. I will be 72 next year, it will become more and more of an agrevation to sell it. Also I can see no financial advantage in keeping it at my age. Also it will be very unlikely that I will ever want to return to the UK but if that unlikely event happens I can rent a place to live.

 

One important thing you'll need to bear in mind, though, regardless of whether or not you decide to dispose of your property, is that you'll almost certainly need to declare any rental income and/or capital gain arising from its sale, which is subsequently remitted to Thailand, as assessable income in tax returns which you'll have to file with the Thai Revenue Department (TRD), in addition to what you'll have to include in returns filed with HMRC. A good starting point for you on this whole issue IMHO would be the guide set out on the first page of the following thread on the Banking forum: 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand

 

[Letseng]

14 hours ago, Keith5588 said:

 @Letseng  Thank you for your message and thoughts. Can I ask your age and why you think you may be better off returning to your country in the EU rather than staying in Thailand?

I'm in my 70ties. As a consequence of being hit by a car 5 yrs ago I suffered a kidney injury which most likely require me soon to need dialysis. I have private medical insurance for inpatient cover. Dialysis will be my bill. This will eat into savings quickly. Back in Europe I will get it free. It is a difficult decision after spending my life overseas for nearly 50 yrs. 

[Keith5588]

15 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

One important thing you'll need to bear in mind, though, regardless of whether or not you decide to dispose of your property, is that you'll almost certainly need to declare any rental income and/or capital gain arising from its sale, which is subsequently remitted to Thailand, as assessable income in tax returns which you'll have to file with the Thai Revenue Department (TRD), in addition to what you'll have to include in returns filed with HMRC. A good starting point for you on this whole issue IMHO would be the guide set out on the first page of the following thread on the Banking forum: 

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1324294-introduction-to-personal-income-tax-in-thailand

 

Thank you @OJAS I have been declaring the rent I received from my property to HMRC. Actually over the past year I have received little rent much as I have had a lot of repair and maintenance jobs done. I will declare the details for Capital Gain to HMRC, actually I think they would be informed as well.  I think I am lucky in some way as I have enough savings to buy a house in Thailand and they are savings I had before 1 Jan 2024. So I have made a note to transfer these savings to Thailand and reinvest the proceeds of selling my house in the UK.

 

I plan to spend 2 months decorating my house before putting it on the market so I will plan to spend 187 days in the UK, so less than 180 in Thailand during 2025. I think that means I could transfer the whole proceeds of selling my house to Thailand during 2025 if I wanted to, but this is something I would need to check.

 

Myself I don’t think the Thai revenue department will investigate the average retired expat.

 

Thanks a lot for the link to the guide, Mike Lister has done an huge amount of work writing that. It looks to be very good, well written. I have the bookmark and will look at it when I have time.

[Keith5588]

5 hours ago, Letseng said:

I'm in my 70ties. As a consequence of being hit by a car 5 yrs ago I suffered a kidney injury which most likely require me soon to need dialysis. I have private medical insurance for inpatient cover. Dialysis will be my bill. This will eat into savings quickly. Back in Europe I will get it free. It is a difficult decision after spending my life overseas for nearly 50 yrs. 

@Letseng Thank you for the information, so sorry that you had the kidney injury. I decided to self insure and so do not have any health insurance myself. I guess you need to add up all the costs of staying in Thailand compared to going home to Europe. I guess living costs will be higher in your European country but dialysis free. Private hospitals in Thailand will be very expensive but I gov hospitals very reasonable. I hope you end up not needing dialysis.  

[topt]

49 minutes ago, Keith5588 said:

so I will plan to spend 187 days in the UK, so less than 180 in Thailand during 2025. I think that means I could transfer the whole proceeds of selling my house to Thailand during 2025 if I wanted to, but this is something I would need to check.

Currently that should be the safest route to avoid any potential Thai taxes. Be non-resident for tax in Thailand when you both sell and remit and there should be no issues even under potential future Thai tax changes.

 

In "theory" if you sell when non resident you should be able to remit the income whenever in the future with out having to pay any tax even if resident when remitting. The previous scenario however offers an extra safeguard.