MAGA civil war as Elon Musk and Vivek clash with hard right on key immigration issue

[John Drake]

After watching Musk go berserk over H1Bs, I do have another serious question: is this the sort of man you want to let put a chip in your brain?

[The Old Bull]

I took engineering at university and could not help but notice most of the Masters and PHD students were from India, That is because they came from rich families. All of us with Bachelors degrees were tired of being broke and couldn't wait to get a job ,earn some money buy a car , chase women ,catch up to those that left school early to take up a trade. The Indian students had no wish to chase women, one of them told me when I want to get married my parents will find me wife so I don't have to look.

[John Drake]

16 hours ago, G_Money said:

Those are your words.

 

Those are Elon's words. He and Vivek started this war, as the title of this topic indicates.

[John Drake]

I asked Elon's Grok/X to rank the top 5 countries in terms of quality of engineers. Here is the result. Notice, India is not on the list. Why are we replacing American engineers (#1) with Indians who don't rank? Could it be $$$$$? For that matter, to get Elon's "exceptional talent," why aren't we getting engineers from Germany, Switzerland, Japan, or S. Korea, instead of India?

Determining the top countries in terms of the quality of engineers can be subjective, as it depends on criteria like educational systems, research output, innovation, and industry impact. However, based on various indicators such as the quality of engineering education, research contributions, and industry reputation, here are five countries often highlighted for their engineering quality:

 

1. United States - Known for its top-tier universities like MIT, Stanford, and Caltech, which produce engineers with significant contributions to technology and innovation. The U.S. is also home to leading tech companies and has a robust research environment.

    

    
2. Germany - Renowned for its precision engineering, Germany has a strong focus on practical engineering education through its dual vocational training system. Universities like the Technical University of Munich and RWTH Aachen are globally recognized for engineering. German engineers are known for their work in automotive, manufacturing, and industrial engineering.

    

    
3. Switzerland - Despite its small size, Switzerland is noted for producing high-quality engineers, particularly in areas like genetic engineering, machinery, and pharmaceuticals. Universities like ETH Zurich are world-renowned.

    
4. Japan - Famous for its contributions to electronics, robotics, and automotive engineering, Japan has a culture of meticulous engineering. Universities like the University of Tokyo and companies like Sony and Panasonic highlight its engineering strength.

    

    
5. South Korea - Known for its technological advancements, especially in electronics, with companies like Samsung and LG leading the global market. South Korea has a strong engineering education system with institutions like KAIST known for their engineering programs.

    

    

 

These rankings reflect a combination of educational quality, industrial output, and innovation but should be seen as a general overview rather than a definitive list, as different sources might rank countries differently based on specific metrics or criteria.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CallumWK]

5 minutes ago, John Drake said:

I asked Elon's Grok/X to rank the top 5 countries in terms of quality of engineers. Here is the result. Notice, India is not on the list. Why are replacing American engineers (#1) with Indians who don't rank?

 

Because an IT professional, which is what they are looking for, is not an engineer?

 

[John Drake]

1 minute ago, CallumWK said:

 

Because an IT professional, which is what they are looking for, is not an engineer?

 

Elon is the one hiring them, and he seems to think they are.

 

[G_Money]

25 minutes ago, John Drake said:

 

Those are Elon's words. He and Vivek started this war, as the title of this topic indicates.

War?  On who?

[Patong2021]

Musk is looking after Musk's best interest.

To understand the  damage that Musk will cause if he is allowed to do what he wants on this issue, look at Canada.  Nearly 5 million temporary Canadians   most of whom are from India. They have disrupted  housing, healthcare  and social services taking up places while giving little back in taxes. They have imported theirown political disputes and created  havoc on the roads. All because some business interests want cheap labour.

 

If the US has a shortage of qualified people, train US students. Pay them living  wages. Offer them training. That's what Trump promised. Now it is time to deliver.

[John Drake]

3 minutes ago, G_Money said:

War?  On who?

 

Read the Daily Mail headline and story, which I included as the title of this topic.

[Will B Good]

4 minutes ago, G_Money said:

War?  On who?

Poor little Laura for a start....no Blue Tick.....freedom of speech? ....555

 

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-politics/laura-loomer-elon-musk-trump-maga-b2670603.html

[Patong2021]

3 minutes ago, G_Money said:

War?  On who?

 

On the US nationals, particularly the taxpayers. An influx of  low paid workers will  screw up the US economy long term. Theyu won't pay taxes sufficient to cover the social services they will receive. They will compete for low cost housing with locals. they will jam the local healthcare networks resulting in delays of access to  locals. They will jam the roads etc.

[G_Money]

1 minute ago, John Drake said:

 

Read the Daily Mail headline and story, which I included as the title of this topic.

Did Congress declare war?  

[G_Money]

4 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

On the US nationals, particularly the taxpayers. An influx of  low paid workers will  screw up the US economy long term. Theyu won't pay taxes sufficient to cover the social services they will receive. They will compete for low cost housing with locals. they will jam the local healthcare networks resulting in delays of access to  locals. They will jam the roads etc.

Who told you that?  Better yet you believe it all.

 

Trump hasn’t been sworn in yet and you’re still afraid of the boogeyman.

 

Was this part of Project 2025?

[Patong2021]

4 minutes ago, G_Money said:

Who told you that?  Better yet you believe it all.

 

Common sense and based upon what happened in Canada. Learn from the social disaster north of the border. Canadian business lobby made the same claims as Musk. they were  disproven. And the Canadian busienss lobby still  is  making the same claim. All those "students" were going to improve Canadian academic quality, and improve productivity. Instead they gamed the immigration system claiming refugee status, and collecting benefits. Those who worked were exploited by the hospitality sector. Go into a Tim Horton's today and you need to speak Urdu if you want service. Almost all of the  big truck crash tragedies are because of Punjabi drivers imported by Punjabi controlled trucking firms who hired unqualified drivers. They were all supposed to be  educated people.  Now it turns out, Canada has become a center for organized crime with Punjabi crime syndicates running wild. That's the reality of Musk's promise.

[G_Money]

2 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

 

Common sense and based upon what happened in Canada. Learn from the social disaster north of the border. Canadian business lobby made the same claims as Musk. they were  disproven. And the Canadian busienss lobby still  is  making the same claim. All those "students" were going to improve Canadian academic quality, and improve productivity. Instead they gamed the immigration system claiming refugee status, and collecting benefits. Those who worked were exploited by the hospitality sector. Go into a Tim Horton's today and you need to speak Urdu if you want service. Almost all of the  big truck crash tragedies are because of Punjabi drivers imported by Punjabi controlled trucking firms who hired unqualified drivers. They were all supposed to be  educated people.  Now it turns out, Canada has become a center for organized crime with Punjabi crime syndicates running wild. That's the reality of Musk's promise.

Try using more paragraphs.

 

I don’t want you to experience the wrath of @Lacessit

[spidermike007]

As well they should, the quota system is hugely outdated, and it should be expanded to accommodate any and every foreigner who's highly qualified for a top end position in engineering, physics, M

top management, medicine, the sciences, etc. The US needs more talent, not less

It needs more brain surgeons and less landscapers and dishwashers. 

 

These details seem to get lost in the rhetorical morass that is currently the rage in the US, it's not about immigrants, it's about the quality of immigrants. Immigrants built America, period. 

[fondue zoo]

Elon is in a mood, he keeps angry tweeting, while referencing Tropic Thunder lines.

[John Drake]

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

As well they should, the quota system is hugely outdated, and it should be expanded to accommodate any and every foreigner who's highly qualified for a top end position in engineering, physics, M

top management, medicine, the sciences, etc. The US needs more talent, not less

It needs more brain surgeons and less landscapers and dishwashers. 

 

These details seem to get lost in the rhetorical morass that is currently the rage in the US, it's not about immigrants, it's about the quality of immigrants. Immigrants built America, period. 

 

If America "needs more talent," then why are American citizens currently holding tech jobs required to train H1Bs to do their job and then be fired from their jobs? 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

If America "needs more talent," then why are American citizens currently holding tech jobs required to train H1Bs to do their job and then be fired from their jobs? 

Right now a guy from India graduates at the top of his class from MIT as a nuclear physicist, and then he can't get a visa to work for an American company and benefit the American economy, because of the antiquated quota system

 

If you're going to discuss immigration do some homework on legal immigration. There's way too much ignorance out there when it comes to the immigration debate. Be the solution. Don't be the problem. 

[John Drake]

18 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Right now a guy from India graduates at the top of his class from MIT as a nuclear physicist, and then he can't get a visa to work for an American company and benefit the American economy, because of the antiquated quota system

 

If you're going to discuss immigration do some homework on legal immigration. There's way too much ignorance out there when it comes to the immigration debate. Be the solution. Don't be the problem. 

Then he is eligible for an O1 visa. Not H1b.