Holy Rigatoni! Is "authentic" Italian food actually American?

[Jingthing]

Most of us have noticed that Italians are particularly a protective bunch of prima donnas when it comes to their food.

Even compared to the French, they really take the cake on that!

 

But this video suggests that much of their food snobbery and arrogance is based on a lot of myths and hot air.

 

Pasta for your thoughts?

 

 

[novacova]

The best pizza I’ve ever had was an American pizza, same with other “Italian” food. 

[Gaccha]

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Pasta for your thoughts?

 

You have just stumbled upon an important phenomenon called "the pizza effect".

[placeholder]

54 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Most of us have noticed that Italians are particularly a protective bunch of prima donnas when it comes to their food.

Even compared to the French, they really take the cake on that!

 

But this video suggests that much of their food snobbery and arrogance is based on a lot of myths and hot air.

 

Pasta for your thoughts?

 

 

Well, pizza in italy is very different from pizza in America. Actually, in Chiang Mai there's a restaurant called Adirak which makes an excellent Neapolitan style pizza. 

Also, the narrator claims that because Italy didn't exist as a nation before 1861 then food from before then can't be Italian. That's just pedantry. 

Still, I think it's a good point that Italian food isn't so nearly insular as the Italians believe.

[Sheryl]

39 minutes ago, novacova said:

The best pizza I’ve ever had was an American pizza, same with other “Italian” food. 

To be fair, Italian food in the US was very much shaped by Italian immigrants. More than 5 million of them came in between last half of 19th and first half of 20th century.  They brought their cuisine with them but modified it to fit their new circumstances.  

 

The way I always heard, New York pizza was born out of the need of the many Italian immigrants working in the construction sector for a filling lunch that could be eaten easily and quickly with their hands, sitting astride a highrise girder or in a construction lot. So the original Italian  version, which was far thinner and more of an appetizer or side dish, was made more substantial.

 

Also worth noting that Italian immigrants were disproportionatrly from  Sicily and other parts of Southrtn Italy so the Italian foods that became mainstream dishes in the US  have that  influence which is quite diffetent from central and Northern Italy.  Hence lasagna in US always uses ricotta rather than bechamel. ...whereas opposite seems the case in UK and Europe.

 

 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Well, pizza in italy is very different from pizza in America. Actually, in Chiang Mai there's a restaurant called Adirak which makes an excellent Neapolitan style pizza. 

Also, the narrator claims that because Italy didn't exist as a nation before 1861 then food from before then can't be Italian. That's just pedantry. 

Still, I think it's a good point that Italian food isn't so nearly insular as the Italians believe.

Pretty much every kind of pizza is available in the US including the same styles as are common in Italy made with imported Italian ingredients. But yeah the most popular USA styles are different. 

[Jingthing]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

To be fair, Italian food in the US was very much shaped by Italian immigrants. More than 5 million of them came in between last half of 19th and first half of 20th century.  They brought their cuisine with them but modified it to fit their new circumstances.  

 

The way I always heard, New York pizza was born out of the need of the many Italian immigrants working in the construction sector for a filling lunch that could be eaten easily and quickly with their hands, sitting astride a highrise girder or in a construction lot. So the original Italian  version, which was far thinner and more of an appetizer or side dish, was made more substantial.

 

Also worth noting that Italian immigrants were disproportionatrly from  Sicily and other parts of Southrtn Italy so the Italian foods that became mainstream dishes in the US  have that  influence which is quite diffetent from central and Northern Italy.  Hence lasagna in US always uses ricotta rather than bechamel. ...whereas opposite seems the case in UK and Europe.

 

 

Yeah and to this day that's how I like my lasagna with ricotta. I hate bechamel with lasagna. Its fun to tell Italians that and watch them respond with disgust. 

[Jingthing]

The carbonara story is very funny too. Most carbonara in Pattaya has cream even in "Italian" restaurants.

 

I met an Italian guy in California who was a regular visititor there in a city with world class regional Italian restaurants with world class chefs. He refused to eat even one bite of Italian food outside Italy. Not because he wanted to eat everything else which is a good reason but because he was convinced it was all going to be bad.

[save the frogs]

Fun fact: Domino's tried their luck in Italy

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, novacova said:

The best pizza I’ve ever had was an American pizza, same with other “Italian” food. 

Not surprising. 

The best Thai bbq chicken, green curry, steak salad, pork neck salad, and custard dessert I ever had was in California. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, norfolkandchance said:

Hook, Line and Sinker. Love it when you bite Dear Boy.

Glad to give you a bit of pleasure so you didn't troll in vain. 

[Jingthing]

9 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Fun fact: Domino's tried their luck in Italy

 

That was silly.

 

Kind of like Taco Bell's attempt to do the Mexico market.

[norfolkandchance]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Glad to give you a bit of pleasure so you didn't troll in vain. 

Stuffing comes to mind and in your case as well.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, norfolkandchance said:

Stuffing comes to mind and in your case as well.

Stuffed pizza doesn't interest me but it sells well at American pizza chains.

[Jingthing]

Hey however this goes I got to title a topic Holy Rigatoni.

Mamma mia life is good.

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yeah and to this day that's how I like my lasagna with ricotta. I hate bechamel with lasagna. Its fun to tell Italians that and watch them respond with disgust. 

Totally agree, Bechamel is an abomination. And the interplay of the mozzarella and ricotta together are what makes a lasagna.

 

But you are talking to the wrong Italians!  Talk to any Sicilian, or resident of Abruzzo, Apulia, Basilicata, Calabria or Campania and they will agree wholeheartedly.

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Totally agree, Bechamel is an abomination. And the interplay of the mozzarella and ricotta together are what makes a lasagna.

 

But you are talking to the wrong Italians!  Talk to any Sicilian, or resident of Abruzzo, Apulia, Basilicata, Calabria or Campania and they will agree wholeheartedly.

Perhaps all those regions but a theory I've heard is that Italian Americans being busy overworked Americans were looking for shortcuts and that was a big reason to go with ricotta which you can buy in a store vs. bechamel which you make from scratch. One Italian restauranteur in Thailand mentioned to me that he avoids ricotta in general because it spoils quickly, which indeed it does. Never had a lasagna in Thailand that meets my tastes. Not only the ricotta which you don't get but I like spinach in there as well. There is an American place in Pattaya that sometimes does lasagna on special and there is some ricotta in there but it's a pathetic homeopathic portion of it. You really want it in your face!

[Screaming]

Trump likes New York Pizza

[Jingthing]

Just now, Screaming said:

Trump likes New York Pizza

That's news to me.

Do you have a source?

I do know he loves McDonald's, KFC, and steaks done extra well done served with ketchup. 

[still kicking]

Really who gives a hoot where it comes from I eat it if In like it 

[KhunLA]

10 hours ago, novacova said:

The best pizza I’ve ever had was an American pizza, same with other “Italian” food. 

Yes, I prefer the 'corrupted' USA version of Italian fare.  Yet to eat in an Italian restaurant, owned & operated by an Italian, that tasted better than same food, served in USA restaurant, or even my kitchen.  

 

Even the Thais do a better job of serving up Italian fare.  Guessing most are simply expats, that think they can cook, and open a restaurant.

 

Admittedly, have not sampled any high end Italian restaurants here/TH.  Especially since the silly prices they charge, for some of the most inexpensive dishes to make.

 

Pizza & pasta has a high enough profit margin already.

[Ralf001]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Perhaps all those regions but a theory I've heard is that Italian Americans being busy overworked Americans were looking for shortcuts and that was a big reason to go with ricotta which you can buy in a store vs. bechamel which you make from scratch. One Italian restauranteur in Thailand mentioned to me that he avoids ricotta in general because it spoils quickly, which indeed it does. Never had a lasagna in Thailand that meets my tastes. Not only the ricotta which you don't get but I like spinach in there as well. There is an American place in Pattaya that sometimes does lasagna on special and there is some ricotta in there but it's a pathetic homeopathic portion of it. You really want it in your face!

Siciliy out by the lake make a nice lasagna it has ricotto in it.

[Jingthing]

8 hours ago, norfolkandchance said:

America. Land of the Flips.

Pinoys?

[impulse]

Americans didn't invent pizza.  We just made it better.  Especially in Chicago and New York.

It's kind of like Mexican food.  We took an inexpensive cuisine, adjusted it with better and more expensive ingredients and charge out the wazoo for it.  I'm gobsmacked when I see what some places get for a burrito.  And a deep dish pizza.

 

Don't get me started on what we did to the price of a cuppa.

 

[digger70]

15 hours ago, novacova said:

The best pizza I’ve ever had was an American pizza, same with other “Italian” food. 

The best food is about ones Taste. 

Your USA Pizza may taste like Cr@p to someone else .

Your Cr@p Spaghetti Meatballs may taste Yummy  to someone else.

[novacova]

2 minutes ago, digger70 said:

The best food is about ones Taste. 

Your USA Pizza may taste like Cr@p to someone else .

Your Cr@p Spaghetti Meatballs may taste Yummy  to someone else.

Yeah, your pizza and rot food is pretty shiddy too

[scorecard]

15 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The carbonara story is very funny too. Most carbonara in Pattaya has cream even in "Italian" restaurants.

 

I met an Italian guy in California who was a regular visititor there in a city with world class regional Italian restaurants with world class chefs. He refused to eat even one bite of Italian food outside Italy. Not because he wanted to eat everything else which is a good reason but because he was convinced it was all going to be bad.

 

An American man in my village here in Chiang Mai says he loves spaghetti carbonara but will only order it in restaurants in NYC.

 

 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

The best food is about ones Taste. 

Your USA Pizza may taste like Cr@p to someone else .

Your Cr@p Spaghetti Meatballs may taste Yummy  to someone else.

There is no one US version of anything except at places like McDonalds.

[placeholder]

16 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Totally agree, Bechamel is an abomination. And the interplay of the mozzarella and ricotta together are what makes a lasagna.

 

But you are talking to the wrong Italians!  Talk to any Sicilian, or resident of Abruzzo, Apulia, Basilicata, Calabria or Campania and they will agree wholeheartedly.

I made lasagne with bechamel and veal once and I thought it was insanely delicious. It was also insanely laborious. Never again. Even lasagne is too much work. I prefer to make baked ziti which has all the ingredients that lasagne does but just jumbled up.

[SiSePuede419]

The best pizza in America is either Tony's (San Francisco), Bestia (LA) or Roberta's (Brooklyn).

 

Tony is 3rd generation Italian American and has 7 ovens, and 12 pizza styles including Neapolitan, Classic American & Italian, California, New York, Detroit, St Louis, New Haven, Sicilian, Grandma, Romana, & Gluten Free.

 

Bestia's owners aren't Italian but the food is really good...Bestia is a multi-regional rustic Italian restaurant focusing on a “from scratch” approach, offering house-made charcuterie, in addition to handmade pastas and pizza made in an Acunto oven.

 

Roberta's also isn't Italian and was started by a bunch of hipsters.  It's not the same tired food Frank Sinatra ate, it's totally updated...

Roberta's, located in Brooklyn's Bushwick neighborhood, is renowned for its artisanal wood-fired pizzas that blend traditional techniques with innovative toppings. Their pizzas are celebrated for a thin, chewy crust with a light, crisp texture, achieved through a blend of specialty flours and extended dough fermentation. 

The menu features both classic and inventive options. The Margherita pizza offers a balanced combination of tangy tomatoes, mozzarella, and basil.  Creative selections like the "Babe: Pig in the City" include cheddar, mozzarella, prosciutto cotto, onion, and salsa verde, showcasing Roberta's commitment to quality and flavor.