Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[Presnock]

Just now, Jingthing said:

It's dumb to say all should file. If you don't have accessable income over the threshold, you definitely should NOT file. 

 

Just now, Presnock said:

that was in a Thai Examiner article quoting the trd official and specifically mentins expats and foreign tax residents! advises foreign tax residents to file by 31st March deadline. Link is inclued in another claim that expats or foreigners are never mentioned when in fact they are.  I realize this is an opinion forum but when one states facts that are incorrect we need to advise them.

Yeah, I think that too many officials here or writers of articles don't fully understand what ALL means instead of "all tax residents with assessable income" whether one gets a refund or not or probably many will not even have to pay any tax on their assessable income

[Presnock]

13 hours ago, Burma Bill said:

 

With respect, I am not surprised if the Americans organised the debate!

all should remember this is an opinion forum - yet too many contnue to think they are advising based on facts when in reality, none knows yet what any new TAX act if ever is even approved and written up in the GAZETTE and who knows when that might happen if ever.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Presnock said:

all should remember this is an opinion forum - yet too many contnue to think they are advising based on facts when in reality, none knows yet what any new TAX act if ever is even approved and written up in the GAZETTE and who knows when that might happen if ever.

100 percent.

However, there is that one change we know about which apparently was something like a memo.

It was about the timing of remittances.

Used to be previous year earnings were all exempt.

The memo said no longer the case  -- loophole closed.

Can a policy change like that really be changed that way without passing a law?

Buggered if I know! 

[Presnock]

13 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Would you believe it? Just done a search in Thai and there is absolutely NOTHING in the internet about foreign retirees having to pay income tax in Thailand! proves beyond reasonable doubt that these charlatan companies, as well as English press, are causing undue concern for financial gain, or clicks. 

WRONG - a foreigner working in Thailand has to pay (normally taken out of paycheck I think) Thai taxes, in addition, there are articles on the web that advises one who stays in Thailand over 179 days and becomes a "tax resident" must be aware of any assessable foreign income remitted to Thailand in 2024  (BTW if in overseas savings prior to 1 Jan 2024 then not assessable) plenty of forum one comments about owing taxes or not recognizing it or not but it is a fact.  One needs to be aware if one is a Tax Resident and remits money in 2024 to Thailand.

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

And how many times was "foreign" used in the article?

That would be.........zero.

 

Was this even the same press conference/announcement?

 

The Revenue Department issued a warning to independent business owners, particularly online vendors and influencers, to file their taxes correctly

 

The above first paragraph doesn't exactly scream "foreign retirees must declare all their remittances, regardless of assessability".

 

by definition, if one lives in Thailand more than 179 days in a calendar year, they are TAX RESIDENTs) and if they have assessble income then must obtain a Tax ID and file...exemptions can probably mean that some income is NOT assessable thus no need for file. Ignorance of local laws at least in my country does not protect one from prosecution and not sure what might happen here.  Lots of changes in the tax world not only here but other countries too in order for their govt to obtain more revenue.  It might or might not take place here and what it might look like if it ever does get approved might surprise us or not.

[Presnock]

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

100 percent.

However, there is that one change we know about which apparently was something like a memo.

It was about the timing of remittances.

Used to be previous year earnings were all exempt.

The memo said no longer the case  -- loophole closed.

Can a policy change like that really be changed that way without passing a law?

Buggered if I know! 

well, they claim this new 15% corporate tax was a new act so had to be printed up but some claim like the 2024 remittance taxes were just an amendment to the interpretation of the old law so didn't actually need a "new" law written.  I am not any kind of expert on any of these issues, and even if I was, TIT and just about anything is possible.

[Presnock]

12 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

That's not what I said.

 

He told taxpayers and/or tax-residents to follow TRD regulations.

 

I am both taxpayer and tax-resident, AND also a foreigner.

 

He told everyone, including me, to file IF required to.

 

I am not required to file, nor am I required to declare credit card purchased, nor am I required to declare all non-assessable exempt non-taxable remittances.

 

It was the journalist adding the fearporn.

whether or not he says it, what is the law about being a Tax Resident?  so after 179 days here, you hang around does that mean you can ignore the tax laws of Thailand?  if you remitted foreign income during 2024 that wa assessable in Thailand, and you do not get a tax id nor file tax forms, they you are breaking the local laws.  I realize too that not all income some of which can be exempted and some protected by local DTA's, are in fact non-assessable so don't have to be reported.  Ignorance in many countries of local tax laws can mean one can be arrested, fined, jailed or all three I think but I could be wrong but I definitely learned about my financial status and taxation.

[Badrabbit]

50 minutes ago, Presnock said:

all should remember this is an opinion forum - yet too many contnue to think they are advising based on facts when in reality, none knows yet what any new TAX act if ever is even approved and written up in the GAZETTE and who knows when that might happen if ever.

I am worried about it big time, pay tax in the UK can't afford to pay tax twice.

[The Cyclist]

14 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I am worried about it big time, pay tax in the UK can't afford to pay tax twice.

 

Are you remitting tens of millions of Baht every year ?
 

If the answer is no, then you are worrying needlessly.

 

TEDA's available in thailand, against tax already paid in the UK, means that you will pay nothing, or very little.

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, Expat68 said:

Had a letter from my ISA company in the UK asking where I was tax resident. I replied that I pay my taxes in the UK but  Thailand were also considering me to be a tax resident, to which they said you can't be tax resident in two countries 

 

Thailand is not considering making you tax resident. If you stay here more than 180 days in the year you are tax resident. Those of us who live here permanently have always been tax residents, The fact that the TRD have never involved in their tax affairs is neither here nor there. (pardon the pun)

 

Your ISA company are quite right to query you on tax residency because only residents of the UK can hold ISAs.

 

https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts

[Badrabbit]

11 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Are you remitting tens of millions of Baht every year ?
 

If the answer is no, then you are worrying needlessly.

 

TEDA's available in thailand, against tax already paid in the UK, means that you will pay nothing, or very little.

Thanks but I worry about everything, I will try not to.

I'm less than 1 million bht per year.

[Moonlover]

2 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Thanks but I worry about everything, I will try not to.

I'm less than 1 million bht per year.

Then instead of reading the crap on this forum (and there's lots of that), try a mindfulness course.

[Presnock]

30 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

I am worried about it big time, pay tax in the UK can't afford to pay tax twice.

well until the final comes out, lets you know clearly if your pension or income is taxed in your home country, you may not have to pay anything here at all.

[madone]

On 1/16/2025 at 5:46 AM, arick said:

Yes they need to start checking their own people which they can't even do. So how in the hell are they going to monitor expats 

arguably expats are higher visibility than regular than folks

[lordgrinz]

Just now, madone said:

arguably expats are higher visibility than regular than folks

 

Exactly! Who is an easy target and flush with cash? Hmmmm...

[DualSportBiker]

On 1/15/2025 at 7:08 PM, Jingthing said:

There is a way you can definitely avoid any chance of being liable for Thai tax if remitting money to buy a condo.

Do not be a Thai tax resident that year! Period. Sorted. 

The liability is based on when you earn the money, not spend it. If you were a tax resident when you earned it, you are liable if you bring it here.

[lordgrinz]

Just now, DualSportBiker said:

The liability is based on when you earn the money, not spend it. If you were a tax resident when you earned it, you are liable if you bring it here.

 

Not if you are here for less than 179 days (thus not a tax resident) in the year you remit the funds, it's a wide-open loophole. So in the year you make a a huge purchase, just stay out of the country for 179 days, then come back next year and enjoy your condo without owing tax on the remittance.

[The Cyclist]

8 minutes ago, Badrabbit said:

Thanks but I worry about everything, I will try not to.

I'm less than 1 million bht per year.

 

Too many people are looking at this from the wrong angle. This is not about Thailand trying to screw a few baht out of retiree expats in Income Tax.

 

This is about Thailand filling its obligations under an International Agreement ( CRS )to ensure that foreign funds remitted into Thailand are.

 

1. Not engaged in Tax Evasion.

 

2. Are Tax Compliant. IE, that the appropriate taxes have been paid in the Source Country.

 

The only way Thailand can comply with that obligation, is for all Tax Residents to declare their remitted overseas income. Showing where it comes from, showing tax paid ( If applicable ) and whether it also falls under a DTA ( Where it might then fall under Thailands Domestic Tax Policy )

 

A further point on this. The terms " Assessable " and " Non-Assessable " do not apply here. They are words that pertain to Thailand's Domestic Tax Policy, and do not apply to an International Agreement ( CRS )

[Expat68]

27 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

 

Thailand is not considering making you tax resident. If you stay here more than 180 days in the year you are tax resident. Those of us who live here permanently have always been tax residents, The fact that the TRD have never involved in their tax affairs is neither here nor there. (pardon the pun)

 

Your ISA company are quite right to query you on tax residency because only residents of the UK can hold ISAs.

 

https://www.gov.uk/individual-savings-accounts

You are wrong about holding ISAs in the UK. I took my Stocks and Shares ISA out long before I moved to Thailand. You are allowed to hold an ISA. You are not allowed to open another one or add to the one you already hold

[StayinThailand2much]

15 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

That leads to another question, how long before other countries follow Thailand and implement the same policy?  No where to run, no where to hide. 

 

Well, worst-case scenario, one could always spend 179 days in Thailand, up to 179 days in country X, and 7+ days in country Y...

[anrcaccount]

10 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

This is about Thailand filling its obligations under an International Agreement ( CRS )to ensure that foreign funds remitted into Thailand are.

 

1. Not engaged in Tax Evasion.

 

2. Are Tax Compliant. IE, that the appropriate taxes have been paid in the Source Country.

 

The only way Thailand can comply with that obligation, is for all Tax Residents to declare their remitted overseas income.

 

This poster is completely misinformed on what the CRS actually is, and continues post this rubbish. They've been corrected on this multiple times, by multiple members now. 

 

FACT: The CRS reporting obligations have nothing to with remitted income, nor that remitted income being reported to a tax authority. There is no need for 'tax residents to declare remitted income' for the CRS obligations to be met.  

 

FACT: Thailand can comply with its obligations under CRS, by asking its FIs/Banks to share a data file once a year. This data file contains only aggregate account balances, and does not contains any references to remitted income, does not include individual transactions, excepting the cases of income as specified in table 5.

SOURCE: https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/FATCA_File/crs/Thailand_CRS_Guidance_280823.pdf
 

[stevenl]

10 hours ago, Ctkong said:

There are laws and there are enforced laws and these are just laws that may not be enforced upon mainly retirees. 

And there are talks about plans for laws that may or may not become laws.

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, anrcaccount said:

This poster is completely misinformed on what the CRS actually is, and continues post this rubbish. They've been corrected on this multiple times, by multiple members now. 

 

Instead of repeating yourself like a stuck record.

 

Explain how Thailand can ensure Overseas Income remitted to Thailand is

 

1. Not engaged in Tax Evasion

 

2. Is Tax Compliant.

 

Without that income being reported ?
 

Yes, I am fully aware of the data file once a year. ( To be of any use, it would need to be cross referenced with something else )

 

That does not cover points 1 & 2 above, and neither is point 1 & 2 above it the remit of banks.

 

That would be the remit of the Revenue Department.

[Phillip9]

1 minute ago, The Cyclist said:

Explain how Thailand can ensure Overseas Income remitted to Thailand is

 

1. Not engaged in Tax Evasion

 

2. Is Tax Compliant.

 

Without that income being reported ?

 

They can't.  There is no way for Thailand to know the source of any remitted income.  That's why all this worry about taxing income from your home country is completey ridiculous.

[The Cyclist]

2 minutes ago, Phillip9 said:

They can't.  There is no way for Thailand to know the source of any remitted income.

 

Bingo

 

Which might just be why Overseas Income will need to be declared, and also to ensure that is

 

1. Not engaged in Tax Evasion

 

2. Tax Compliant.

[Letseng]

On 1/15/2025 at 10:19 PM, gamb00ler said:

I think it's unlikely that you can pay in US$ with a credit or debit card in Thailand.  Usually the hospital's agreements with the VISA/MasterCard processing companies would limit them to Thai ฿ transactions.  In the US those companies insist all purchases are processed in the local currency (US$).

 

I think paying with US currency would be easily accomplished.

My dentist takes US$ (cash).

[Antti]

The CRS may very well have a grand mission statement where it says that the aim is to stop tax evasion bla bla bla. But what the countries have actually agreed to do is just share a lousy excel sheet with certain information about bank accounts. Nothing more, nothing less. To think that the CRS would mandate the participating countries to individually verify that no one is evading taxes is just absurd.

[The Cyclist]

3 simply questions people need to ask themselves.

 

1. Is the Royal Decree of 31 March 2023, followed by the issuance of 2 x POR's a coincidence ?
 

2. Is Thailand, as a part of CRS, responsible for ensuring that Foreign income remitted to Thailand is.

 

A. Tax Complaint.

 

B. Not engaged in Tax Evasion

 

How are they going to achieve that, and by what method ?
 

3. Given the mis-information, lies, people apparently acting illegally, numerous media articles, that are all wrong, over the last 12 - 14 months. Why has the DG of the RD not issued a statement stamping on it ?

[DualSportBiker]

1 hour ago, lordgrinz said:

 

Not if you are here for less than 179 days (thus not a tax resident) in the year you remit the funds, it's a wide-open loophole. So in the year you make a a huge purchase, just stay out of the country for 179 days, then come back next year and enjoy your condo without owing tax on the remittance.

This is not what I was advised by a panel of tax specialists here at a Sasin (Chula) event. If you earn money in year 1 and are in Thailand for 180+days that same year, even if you remit the funds in a year you are not here for 180 days, you are still liable.

[samtam]

14 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

PN90 is for income from other sources and employment, PN91 is for income only from employment.  You can claim a refund of interest/dividend taxes withheld on the PN90.

@NoDisplayName I will file the PN90 for both (salary wage and pension)

No salary, no wage, only pension.

 

1. Taxpayer THB60,000 personal allowance does not seem to have a [box].

 

I cannot see on the P90 where one puts in TEDA, but maybe that is in the Tax Computation section 11?

 

But there is an Income Exemption Entitlement form to be used with PN90. although nowhere I can see that one can include an item for 50% of pension income up to THB100,000. If you know, can you tell me the item number on the form.

 

Income and for withholding tax refund: I think the reclaim of withholding tax comes under "Tax Computation" item 13. "Less [box] Withholding Tax and Tax Credit" but if you can confirm or correct, I would be much obliged.