Thai tax tangle: Expats warned of new rules on overseas income

[SHA 2 BKK]

26 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Even more interesting 

 

Are Officials from the Revenue Department lying 

 

 

 

About an hour old and simple to understand.

 

And I think that now backs up everything that I have previously said.

 

Think that now leaves us with the last strawman standing " Where do you put this on the Tax Forms "

 

Perfect as we have been saying!  30.30-30.50 mark the money shot....

 

No assessable income eg. savings pre 2024, DTA non assessable Income and LTR Visa (logically) no need for a TIN and no need to file a return. Great find cobber and from the mouth of the horse - put down the glasses no filing for this little Black Duck!

[redwood1]

3 minutes ago, Antti said:

 

At around 29:23 the guy says that if assessable income reaches certain threshold you need to file. So this seems to confirm the fact that if you have no assessable income then no need to file.

 

The Cyclist has been told this countless times....But he keeps repeating the same nonsense like a broken record...

[oldcpu]

8 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Sure

 

That threshold is 60 / 120 / 220k baht a year. The same amount for Thais and written in black and white in the revenue code.

 

So if you are a Tax Resident of Thailand, remit over those figures after 01 Jan 2024, you need to file a tax return.

 

Take your documentary evidence with you, to show how it is not taxable, or subject to a Tax Credit.

 

The determination whether a tax return is required is based on assessable income. 

 

You have already had pointed out to you that Thailand has in the past treated tax exempt income (that is not listed in the Thai tax return form exemption list) as income that is to be considered not assessable.  Such exempt income is exempt in Thai tax calculations.  This is the case for income covered under por.161/162 as exempt taxation,  per Royal Decree-18 (and relevant DTA sections) and Royal Decree-743 (LTR decree). 

 

Hence such tax exempt income, being not assessble, is not to be included in the 60/120/220 calculation you reference.

 

All you are doing is scaremongering those who don't know better and spreading incorrect information.

 

You really should stop doing that.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, oldcpu said:

The determination whether a tax return is required is based on assessable income. 

 

What is assessable income, everything above 60/120/220k baht

 

Tells you right at the start of the video.

 

If you remit above these figures, are a tax resident, you are a taxpayer.

 

Supporting documentary evidence will determine when that income is non taxable.

 

* Your DTA

 

* Your Special Visa.

 

* Tax already paid will give you a tax credit.

 

Might have mentioned this previously, and the video highlights it quite clearly, Income from Section 40.

 

Is Assessable income ( Above 60 / 120 / 220k baht ) and potentially taxable. The 3 bullet points above will make it non taxable.

 

 

 

[lordgrinz]

49 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Even more interesting 

 

Are Officials from the Revenue Department lying 

 

 

 

About an hour old and simple to understand.

 

And I think that now backs up everything that I have previously said.

 

Think that now leaves us with the last strawman standing " Where do you put this on the Tax Forms "

 

 

The prior savings and IRA/401K part before Jan 1st 2024 is still confusing, how would anyone keep track of what percentage is taxable and especially going forward? You may switch banks (multiple accounts) and IRA companies several times, confusing principal and interest, and what is what and from where. I think they miss the biggest problem, the chances of an audit, and the mess and expense of trying to navigate the paper trail. Not to mention that our IRA or 401K withdrawals would probably be taxed at a higher tax rate than we would ever see at home, if at all. In fact, I didn't even hear any mention of interest earned on those prior savings accounts, or the tax free amounts growing in IRA's/401K's. Then there is the biggest issue, document authentication, also not mentioned in the video.

[jwest10]

22 minutes ago, Antti said:

 

At around 29:23 the guy says that if assessable income reaches certain threshold you need to file. So this seems to confirm the fact that if you have no assessable income then no need to file.

Many have been stating this for a long time and yes including my local Revenue office and several times and a Thai friend asked someone whose wife knows someone who works there and no need to file.
 

[oldcpu]

7 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Supporting documentary evidence will determine when that income is non taxable.

 

 

And as pointed out to you dozens of times, that the exempt income covered under Royal Decree-18 (DTA exempt), Royal Decree-743 (LTR exempt) and Ministerial Directives por-161.162 (exempt foreign remitted savings/income before 1-Jan-2024) are in practice treated by the the Thai RD as income that is NOT assessable income.

 

You have been provided evidence there by pointing out to both Thai and English language Thai tax returns from 2017 to 2023 ,and also the Thai tax return form for year 2024.  Again evidence that such income (by its absence in the exemption iists) is treated as income that is not assessable by the Thai Revenue Department.

 

This means this not assessable income is not to be included in the calculation of the threshold for submitting a Thailand tax return. This is 100% per Thai law.

 

And yet you persist in this misinformation.

 

You really should stop doing that spread of false information.

 

[Dcheech]

23 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

That threshold is 60 / 120 / 220k baht a year. The same amount for Thais and written in black and white in the revenue code.

Hoping to get clarification on this. If under the 60,000 Baht threshold for assessable income. You don't have to file a return. .... BUT

120K & 220K  ?? 

Can I get some clarification on those two other limits posted?  IS that based on age, work or lack of work etc. Is that for the same thing - when to file and when not to file? 

Thanks greatly. 

[DrPhibes]

22 hours ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not a bad plan.

 

I filed three years late returns, and this year's.  No assessable remittances to declare, so zero foreign income to claim, AND I got bank/dividend withholding refunded.

 

Now I have a four-year history of accepted and approved tax forms omitting non-assessable foreign remittances.

 

It's no real bother.  It's just another facet of expat life in Thailand.  Once a year, spend half a day at immigration getting an extension.  Three or four times a year, take five minutes to file an online 90-day report.  And now the first weekend in January, spend ten minutes to file my annual FBAR, then 20-30 minutes filing my Thai PN90.

 

When I start to collect that juicy social security, I'll have it deposited in a dedicated bank account, and Wise it to Thailand monthly.  That, in addition to my TEDA amount of remittances (all will be non-assessable, but worst case scenario, they are somehow considered taxable), I'll have more than I can ever spend here, and never have to pay Thai tax.

 

All is well, until Thailand moves to global taxation. 

 

Then it's time for Plan B.

Ya, going to do the same for US Social Security, into a separate account and only remit that money into Thailand.  I had already been moving seasoned money to Thailand, earned in previous year, the same way that was absolutely traceable to such.  Just started SS so will get that set up ASAP.

[The Cyclist]

1 hour ago, Dcheech said:

Hoping to get clarification on this. If under the 60,000 Baht threshold for assessable income. You don't have to file a return. .... BUT

120K & 220K  ?? 

 

120k is for filing as an individual 

 

220k is for filing with your spouse.

 

For most sources of income. There are some exceptions where the level drops to 60k.

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

Supporting documentary evidence will determine when that income is non taxable.

 

* Your DTA

 

* Your Special Visa.

 

* Tax already paid will give you a tax credit.

 

Not taxable = non-assessable.

[The Cyclist]

Just now, NoDisplayName said:

 

Not taxable = non-assessable.

 

Carry on being a muppet.

[NoDisplayName]

16 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

120k is for filing as an individual 

 

220k is for filing with your spouse.

 

For most sources of income. There are some exceptions where the level drops to 60k.

 

Is it?

 

I was shirley 60K filing single, 120 filing joint.  Isn't that 220K a joint filing with the 100K pension allowance included?

 

But I'm not an expert, although I have filed....late, early, and often.

[NoDisplayName]

6 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Carry on being a muppet.

 

But it says right here, only use assessable funds in the PIT calculations!

 

Yebbut, Kenya joined CRS!

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

A further video, approx 1 hour ago:

 

 

 

Be careful with that there video.

 

I noticed at first that Expat Tax turned off the comments.  Why would they do that?  Usually when they don't want to be annoyed with facts that would drive away potential customers.

 

Later I noticed that the translations and/or subtitles are not all correct. The subtitles appear to be AI generated and do not match what is said due to poor pronunciation.

 

Example at 15:39

 

Subtitle:  "..excision for the high tax residence..."

 

Speech:  "...(unclear)  for the Thai tax residents..."

 

I can't say about the translations, but.............

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

What is assessable income, everything above 60/120/220k baht

 

Tells you right at the start of the video.

 

and at 17:15 after white shirt details the four types of income (out of eight) that black jacket touched upon, foreigner guy says

 

"So if all of these are remitted and transferred into Thailand, then after the (yes, yes) first of January [unclear] income, then they potentially have to file, like if it's assessable income, they potentially, depending on the double tax agreement, and (yes, yes) things like this."

[NoDisplayName]

Good news!

 

Individuals that have received expensive watches, no matter how many, as gifts, do not have to pay tax.

 

Individuals who later sell those expensive watches, no matter how much they receive, do not have to pay tax.

 

That's convenient.

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

What is assessable income, everything above 60/120/220k baht

No, assessable income of 59k baht means, if you're single, you're not required to file a tax return. What's with your comprehension problem?

[Yumthai]

9 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

Good news!

 

Individuals that have received expensive watches, no matter how many, as gifts, do not have to pay tax.

 

Individuals who later sell those expensive watches, no matter how much they receive, do not have to pay tax.

 

That's convenient.

We can imagine the impressive watches collection held by some high ranking TRD officials.

[jwest10]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

A further video, approx 1 hour ago:

 

 

Well, again nothing new or explained and Carl stating new tax rules and they are not at all and once again conflicting information at my local Revenue office and been told many times I do not need to file a tax form in my circumstances and yes the allowances are not on non-existent forms 

[jwest10]

38 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

Be careful with that there video.

 

I noticed at first that Expat Tax turned off the comments.  Why would they do that?  Usually when they don't want to be annoyed with facts that would drive away potential customers.

 

Later I noticed that the translations and/or subtitles are not all correct. The subtitles appear to be AI generated and do not match what is said due to poor pronunciation.

 

Example at 15:39

 

Subtitle:  "..excision for the high tax residence..."

 

Speech:  "...(unclear)  for the Thai tax residents..."

 

I can't say about the translations, but.............

And this Carl chap seems to be promoting his company and refusing to answer a very simple question whhen asked to him GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[NoDisplayName]

3 hours ago, anchadian said:

A further video, approx 1 hour ago:

 

 

This video seems awfully familiar, especially the second half. 

 

Yes, this clip was posted a couple hours ago, but I'm almost shirley that CRS guy posted an excerpt from it several days ago.  This is just a longer clip from the same interview.

[NoDisplayName]

5 minutes ago, jwest10 said:

And this Carl chap seems to be promoting his company and refusing to answer a very simple question whhen asked to him GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

It's an infotainment commercial.  Note their disclaimer.

 

⚠️

DISCLAIMER: The information in this video is for informational purposes only and is not intended as professional tax advice. It provides general guidance on tax matters and should not be the sole basis for making personal tax decisions. Tax situations vary greatly, and tax laws may change. We strongly advise consulting with a qualified tax advisor for your situation.

 

[The Cyclist]

10 minutes ago, JimGant said:

No, assessable income of 59k baht means, if you're single, you're not required to file a tax return. What's with your comprehension problem?

 

Is that the best you can come up with ?
 

How about a rant claiming this latest video is wrong ? Like you had over the Siam Legal video ?
 

Tax Resident in Thailand, remit income from 01 Jan 2024, it is assessable income.

 

1. Below certain levels, no need to file.

 

2. Above those levels, file a tax return.

 

Show your evidence / Paperwork as to why that income is not taxable in Thailand..

 

1. Bank statement for prior 01 Jan 2024 savings.

 

2. Your DTA, to show the " Exclusive taxation Rights "

 

3. Your DTA and tax payment record, to claim a tax credit

 

4. Your Magic Visa.

 

All in the latest video posted today. And people are apparently still in denial, too thick to understand the basics or still looking for strawmen

 

To paraphrase Carl Turner " So Thailand are now doing what most Western Countries are doing "

 

 

[TheAppletons]

11 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

It's an infotainment commercial.  Note their disclaimer.

 

⚠️

DISCLAIMER: The information in this video is for informational purposes only and is not intended as professional tax advice. It provides general guidance on tax matters and should not be the sole basis for making personal tax decisions. Tax situations vary greatly, and tax laws may change. We strongly advise consulting with a qualified tax advisor for your situation.

 

 

  The disclaimer is hilarious.  A self-professed tax advisor advising people not to regard his video as professional tax advice; instead one should seek advice from a qualified tax advisor, presumably not him.

[NoDisplayName]

9 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Show your evidence / Paperwork as to why that income is not taxable in Thailand..

 

Don't need to, unless audited.  And that's a rare occurrence, indeed.  Only two accounts on this forum, one was previously working in Thailand and stopped reporting, the other was running a business.

 

Thailand taxation is an honour system.  We self-determine which remitted income is exempt, non-taxable, non-assessable.

 

We only declare non-exempt, taxable, assessable remittances (and Thai source income of course) on our returns.

 

Exempt, non-taxable, non-assessable remittances do not appear on the forms, do not factor into PIT calculations.

 

Unless you've actually filed a tax return declaring non-assessable remittances and lived to tell the tale...........so, umm, just how DID you deduct your non-assessable income from the calculations?

 

Oh, I see.  You still haven't filed.  You're speculating.

[NoDisplayName]

18 minutes ago, The Cyclist said:

Tax Resident in Thailand, remit income from 01 Jan 2024, it is assessable income.

 

You mis-spelled "remit assessable income"

[jwest10]

28 minutes ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

It's an infotainment commercial.  Note their disclaimer.

 

⚠️

DISCLAIMER: The information in this video is for informational purposes only and is not intended as professional tax advice. It provides general guidance on tax matters and should not be the sole basis for making personal tax decisions. Tax situations vary greatly, and tax laws may change. We strongly advise consulting with a qualified tax advisor for your situation.

 

So there you have it from the so-called Tax experts and Carl Turner with that like many of them with a huge smirk on his face.

[oldcpu]

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

 

Even more interesting 

 

Are Officials from the Revenue Department lying 

-

5 hours ago, The Cyclist said:

About an hour old and simple to understand.

 

And I think that now backs up everything that I have previously said.

 

Think that now leaves us with the last strawman standing " Where do you put this on the Tax Forms "

 

No one is lying.

 

One important part of that video is at around 15:13 to 15;22 in the video (in Thai language), the Thai RD official very quickly (almost in passing) notes in considering assessable income, one needs to also consider if there is an exemption.

 

This was not translated to English language  by the translator (it was likely forgotten to be stated given a lot of other words needed to be translated at that moment).

 

Why would the RD official feel the need to state that an exempted income (ie an exemption) needs to be considered  in the context of determining assessable income ?    If exempt income (ie an exemption)  was part of assessable income there would be no need to state such. 

 

Clearly then,  if income is exempt, it is not part of assessable income.

 

I ONLY discovered that by having Google translate on while watching the video. I would be interested in a native Thai speakers translation of those words.

 

In most locations in that video, when referring to the need to get a Thai Tax ID Number (TIN) and file a Thai tax return, the term assessable income was used. 

 

That is very important - for if the income is not assessable, then there is no need to include such income (that is not assessable) in the decision whether a Thai TIN or a Th tax return is needed.

 

This totally supports what is in the Thai Tax code (re: exempt income means not to be included in a tax calculation), re: Royal Decree-18 (calling up DTAs), re: Royal Decree-743 (for selected LTR visa categories), and re: por.161/162 where those documents refer to exempt income.  It is also consistent with the Thai RD not including any field in ANY tax return to list as a deduction exempt Income.

 

It is good to have that clarified in that video - even thou one is forced to look at the Thai words from the RD official  (which the translator missed to translate).

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

 

 

The prior savings and IRA/401K part before Jan 1st 2024 is still confusing, how would anyone keep track of what percentage is taxable and especially going forward? You may switch banks (multiple accounts) and IRA companies several times, confusing principal and interest, and what is what and from where. I think they miss the biggest problem, the chances of an audit, and the mess and expense of trying to navigate the paper trail. Not to mention that our IRA or 401K withdrawals would probably be taxed at a higher tax rate than we would ever see at home, if at all. In fact, I didn't even hear any mention of interest earned on those prior savings accounts, or the tax free amounts growing in IRA's/401K's. Then there is the biggest issue, document authentication, also not mentioned in the video.

Actually that firm in a recent QA session provided a very clear and firm answer about that specific question about whether the value of U.S. retirement accounts at December 31, 2023 is exempt going forward. 

NO!
NO!

N0!

 

So, no worries about complex accounting.

It is very simple actually. 

The full amount of the withdrawals when remitted is the relevant number.

 

ALSO, there is no cost basis profit calculation on sold assets WITHIN the retirement accounts as there is for non-retirement investments.