Benjamin arrives at the logical conclusion regarding taxes

[Presnock]

7 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

It are not just small steps. They are complicated for the conditions the Thai bureaucracy is in. They can't even link traffic fines to the car registration renewals.

Yes of course, they have scare mongered about that in the press as well, but obviously from the reports on this forum, it isn't happening.

Lastly, I stay in Thailand 365 days, but haven't remitted any money in the last 3 years, so I don't need to fill a tax return. I can't get an extension because I don't remit any money??

 

1 minute ago, Presnock said:

well, 136 countries signed on to the OECD agreement so I have notice some other countries too making tax chnges...latest being Spain which announced that they would charge a 100% tax on houses sold to anyone other than the EU including those from the UK that purchases houses in Spain.  Thailand will continue debating on the announced draft tax bill and who knows how long that will take to come to fruition and in addition, we are now in the file your 2024 taxes so that should be interesting too to see any numbers of foreigners filing and amounts the revenue dept have been able to get from expats.  Best of luck to all.

Like I say, it should prove interesting if the TRD publishes any data on 2024 tax filing of expats, including how much money they were able to make out it.

[newbee2022]

3 minutes ago, Presnock said:

well, 136 countries signed on to the OECD agreement so I have notice some other countries too making tax chnges...latest being Spain which announced that they would charge a 100% tax on houses sold to anyone other than the EU including those from the UK that purchases houses in Spain.  Thailand will continue debating on the announced draft tax bill and who knows how long that will take to come to fruition and in addition, we are now in the file your 2024 taxes so that should be interesting too to see any numbers of foreigners filing and amounts the revenue dept have been able to get from expats.  Best of luck to all.

Dead line 31. Of March

[CallumWK]

1 minute ago, newbee2022 said:

Yes, that's what I am thinking about. You have to fill in the PND 90 and go to the Revenue to let it be stamped "No taxes". That is what the office in CM told me in person. So to do nothing but ignore the law doesn't seem acceptable for me 

 

I'm not ignoring the law. If you have an income, but below the threshold, you need to file a return.

If you have no income at all, you don't need to file, and according to reports on this forum, most offices won't even give you a tax ID.

 

But the most important thing is this. It will not happen

 

They can't even link traffic fines to the car registration renewals.

 

 

[CallumWK]

7 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno, but we might well see a stream of  "Bad Falang not Pay tax" headlines in the Bangkok Post, or other garbage outlets.

 

TRD might set up a team to come up with one public flogging a week to scare foreigners into paying their taxes. That's the Thai way isn't.

 

Are you sure this post wasn't intended for the worst joke forum?

[Dmaxdan]

2 minutes ago, Ben Zioner said:

Dunno, but we might well see a stream of  "Bad Falang not Pay tax" headlines in the Bangkok Post, or other garbage outlets.

 

TRD might set up a team to come up with one public flogging a week to scare foreigners into paying their taxes. That's the Thai way isn't.

How would the Bangkok Post (or any other local news source) know who has and who hasn't filed a tax return? Does the RD stamp your forehead once once your return is complete? 

 

 

[newbee2022]

29 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I'm not ignoring the law. If you have an income, but below the threshold, you need to file a return.

If you have no income at all, you don't need to file, and according to reports on this forum, most offices won't even give you a tax ID.

 

But the most important thing is this. It will not happen

 

They can't even link traffic fines to the car registration renewals.

 

 

My personal experience is different 

[J Branche]

Doesn't Thailand need to properly notify Resident Foreigners of the changes tax or enforcement and procedure that should be followed.

 

Please respond if ANYONE reading this has been Notified by their Embassy, Notified by the Thai Embassy, Notified by the Thai Revenue Department, provided any detailed information on arrival at the Airports, Immigration.

 

I do Not speak Thai enough and most Read Zero Thai Language.  

 

There is a proper procedure and notification process that must be followed.  

 

How much wasted time on posting comments and questions, meetings, YouTube videos, unanswered Double Tax Agreement questions is still happening.

 

Get it all sorted out and Next Year after proper notification and access to documents (Not PDF, can not translate by app) that can be Easily translated to the Foreign Income Earners language on Revenue Department website.  

 

A clear easy to understand step by step process on what needs to be completed in what order and location or office to contact if we have questions.

 

I've asked half the girlfriends Thai Family and Every one has given me a strange look and does Not Require Professional Assistance if they need to file taxes.

[FlorC]

32 minutes ago, CallumWK said:

 

I'm not ignoring the law. If you have an income, but below the threshold, you need to file a return.

If you have no income at all, you don't need to file, and according to reports on this forum, most offices won't even give you a tax ID.

 

But the most important thing is this. It will not happen

 

They can't even link traffic fines to the car registration renewals.

 

 

Oh yes they can. I just paid one when paying the roadtax.

They are just too lazy or inebt to find out where you live.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, connda said:

Nothing has changed other than 1) closing a loophole for the time periods for remittances that is aimed more at Thai citizens than anyone else, and 2) people like yourself who are freaking out because some savvy tax consultants stoked the fires of fear in the expat community with ฿฿฿฿฿฿ THB-signs in their eyes.

 

I think Benjamin said this entire debate arose because of an interagency memo about closing that loophole. The government to my knowledge has been silent on this matter, probably because

 

1) if they say no expats are implicated then they lose their power to target people if the need to and

2) if they say some expats are implicated they cause mass chaos (much worse than now)

 

All this noise and debate seems to be because "experts" and various people on social media have drawn their own conclusions and stirred everyone up.

[NorthernRyland]

1 hour ago, CallumWK said:

It are not just small steps. They are complicated for the conditions the Thai bureaucracy is in. They can't even link traffic fines to the car registration renewals.

 

This can't be overstated. If they want revenue well here you go but that haven't even figured that out. They still have me making hand drawn maps for immigration because they can't figure out GPS coordinates apparently. 

[NorthernRyland]

59 minutes ago, dinga said:

I'm flabbergasted that any advisor with years of experience in Thailand can provide professional advice without regard to/understanding of the local - including enforcement - environment.

 

I've watch a lot of his videos and despite being a lawyer with Thai citizenship he doesn't seem to understand how the law is generally regarded in Thailand, until now. 

 

For anyone that doesn't know the saga, over the last many months he's made a serious of videos where he gets increasingly more livid over media run by foreigners essentially giving tax advice and telling people to get a TIN before a certain deadline etc... and to contact their agency for support. He regards this as infringing on protected occupations reserved for Thais and despite all the uncertainty and fear it's causing the government doesn't seem to be stepping in.

[NorthernRyland]

25 minutes ago, J Branche said:

Doesn't Thailand need to properly notify Resident Foreigners of the changes tax or enforcement and procedure that should be followed.

 

They would need to and the fact they haven't says volumes and that nothing has changed, loophole or no loophole. Most people aren't even aware of this tax debate and would be shocked if they were audited and told they owe back taxes. Obviously they government knows if they want taxes they need a formal procedure and notify expats, which would happen via immigration as that's their point of contact for us.

[topt]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

latest being Spain which announced that they would charge a 100% tax on houses sold to anyone other than the EU including those from the UK that purchases houses in Spain. 

As usual you have not given the full information. This has not been implemented but announced as a "plan".....

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr7enzjrymxo

 

note this part......

Quote

Sánchez did not provide any more details on how the tax would work nor a timeline for presenting it to parliament for approval, where he has often struggled to gather sufficient votes to pass legislation.

 

Not to say it won't happen.

[topt]

50 minutes ago, FlorC said:

Oh yes they can. I just paid one when paying the roadtax.

They are just too lazy or inebt to find out where you live.

Seems to vary as other posters have apparently got away with it. Plus there was this a month ago - 

 

[soalbundy]

14 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

"I went to my local district office requesting a TIN and they turned me away because they didn't understand why I needed one"

555555, some years ago I went to the tax office to get a confirmation that I don't work in Thailand as requested by my earlier company who pays my company pension.

No can do

why not'

you don't have a tax number

That's because I don't work here

hmmmm, maybe you work without a tax number....no can do.

[alanrchase]

Watched one of his videos the other day where he seemed to be suggesting that his viewers should report the foreigners who he considered were working illegally by giving tax advice. I thought that was very poor advice from a lawyer in Thailand considering the defamation laws. He is a lawyer, if he thinks people are working illegally why doesn't he report them himself? Gave up watching his videos after that.

[NoDisplayName]

7 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

 According to my BKK branch you can only claim back 3 years of withholding tax!

They may of course be wrong T.I.T!

 

You can only file 3 years tax returns.  Current year, plus two prior.

[Dan O]

15 hours ago, KhunHeineken said:

Many countries are broke, including mine.  Thailand is no different. 

 

All of these countries are chasing every bit of of revenue they can get, from everywhere, and from everyone.  

 

This is an easy money earner for them, especially if the simple pathway of enforcement is attaching it to the annual extension, and no votes lost at election time.  

 

You are asking, "Why would they chase it?"  Perhaps you should be asking, "Why wouldn't they chase it?"    

And how exactly do you think they will create a flow chart of all the different countries with all the individual DTA's that would be comprehendable to immigration which has no connection to the Revenue Department?  They can't even connect the dots on traffic ticket payments\avoidance or come up with a easy to follow preemptive overstay alert on exits from the country. Then throw in the ever present variable of interpretation of legal wording with each imm office 

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Dmaxdan said:

How would the Bangkok Post (or any other local news source) know who has and who hasn't filed a tax return? Does the RD stamp your forehead once once your return is complete? 

 

 

Are you playing dumb? TRD will leak just like all the so called law enforcement agencies... They don't need a tax return, they will catch people on lifestyle discrepancies.  In some places, mostly Bangkok and Phuket they'll have no problem to identify representative offenders. And as I said they'll need only a few dozens a year, every single one they'll catch and advertise will motivate hundreds to regularise their situation.

[newbee2022]

1 hour ago, J Branche said:

Doesn't Thailand need to properly notify Resident Foreigners of the changes tax or enforcement and procedure that should be followed.

 

Please respond if ANYONE reading this has been Notified by their Embassy, Notified by the Thai Embassy, Notified by the Thai Revenue Department, provided any detailed information on arrival at the Airports, Immigration.

 

I do Not speak Thai enough and most Read Zero Thai Language.  

 

There is a proper procedure and notification process that must be followed.  

 

How much wasted time on posting comments and questions, meetings, YouTube videos, unanswered Double Tax Agreement questions is still happening.

 

Get it all sorted out and Next Year after proper notification and access to documents (Not PDF, can not translate by app) that can be Easily translated to the Foreign Income Earners language on Revenue Department website.  

 

A clear easy to understand step by step process on what needs to be completed in what order and location or office to contact if we have questions.

 

I've asked half the girlfriends Thai Family and Every one has given me a strange look and does Not Require Professional Assistance if they need to file taxes.

The tax file is in Thai and English. Available for download or to be collected at the office. (RD)

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

The tax file is in Thai and English. Available for download or to be collected at the office. (RD)

 

Except, as has been pointed in various posts (albeit buried so deep it is possibly hard to find) the tax-year-2024 forms in English language are not yet available.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Yes, the 2023 tax year forms are available, but if you look at those forms and go to the last exemption page, you will note the tax year 2023 is hard embedded ... so those forms appear to be intended for a year-2023 tax submission and not a tax-year 2024 submission.

[LOWERCASEGUY]

3 hours ago, CallumWK said:

 

Because you don't have to be a tax resident to get a 1 year extension.

You can have 1 year extensions and stay less 180 days in Thailand

Uhm, but if they make you get a TRD clearance to renew your visa, you don’t need to be a tax resident to get a clearance.  The TRD could determine that you are not liable for any taxes and give you a clearance.  
 

I am also in the “I’ll see what happens” camp but it took me all of .000001 seconds to see the flaw in that argument.  

[newbee2022]

30 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Except, as has been pointed in various posts (albeit buried so deep it is possibly hard to find) the tax-year-2024 forms in English language are not yet available.

 

https://www.rd.go.th/english/65308.html

 

Yes, the 2023 tax year forms are available, but if you look at those forms and go to the last exemption page, you will note the tax year 2023 is hard embedded ... so those forms appear to be intended for a year-2023 tax submission and not a tax-year 2024 submission.

The RD office got loads of forms for 2024. The officer told me to overwrite the online form (after printing) and send it as copies by mail or go personally to your RD office.

Seems to be doable.

[J Branche]

43 minutes ago, newbee2022 said:

The tax file is in Thai and English. Available for download or to be collected at the office. (RD)

The Tax Form is yes. Is Por 162 English? Can the PDF be translated easily,  by App to another language?

 

US Embassy has multiple forms of contact information for me.  So does Thailand.  I didn't receive ANY Notification that ANY Tax circumstances have changed.  

 

I will comply with any laws in Thailand.  The Revenue Department will need to fulfill Basic, process and procedures and make it available to translate to different languages if they want people to comply.

 

It is Not Acceptable to think everyone will just figure it out.  There are 9 months of comments, videos, and everyone seems just as confused and waiting for the Revenue Department to meet basic expectations 

[CallumWK]

24 minutes ago, LOWERCASEGUY said:

Uhm, but if they make you get a TRD clearance to renew your visa, you don’t need to be a tax resident to get a clearance.

 

Hahahaha

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, topt said:

As usual you have not given the full information. This has not been implemented but announced as a "plan".....

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr7enzjrymxo

 

note this part......

 

Not to say it won't happen.

Never read the articles but I saw headlines and just referencing changing tax world of today.  Sorry for incomplete info

[LOWERCASEGUY]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

I've watch a lot of his videos and despite being a lawyer with Thai citizenship he doesn't seem to understand how the law is generally regarded in Thailand, until now. 

He’s one of the people where maybe less exposure is better.  The more videos I watch of him, the more I’m convinced I wouldn’t hire him to draft a letter.  
 

Not just on this issue, but even on unrelated videos as well, he often comes across more like some guy in a bar than a lawyer.  

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, newbee2022 said:

The RD office got loads of forms for 2024. The officer told me to overwrite the online form (after printing) and send it as copies by mail or go personally to your RD office.

Seems to be doable.

 

Did the RD office official state / confirm that any differences between the Thai language(?) 2024 forms and the online English language 2023 forms are either zero or insignificant? 

[topt]

1 hour ago, J Branche said:

The Tax Form is yes. Is Por 162 English? Can the PDF be translated easily,  by App to another language?

 

US Embassy has multiple forms of contact information for me.  So does Thailand.  I didn't receive ANY Notification that ANY Tax circumstances have changed.  

 

I will comply with any laws in Thailand.  The Revenue Department will need to fulfill Basic, process and procedures and make it available to translate to different languages if they want people to comply.

 

It is Not Acceptable to think everyone will just figure it out.  There are 9 months of comments, videos, and everyone seems just as confused and waiting for the Revenue Department to meet basic expectations 

Where do you think you are? (or perhaps you have adopted the Thai "Do you know who I am" mindset)

 

Same in most other countries - it is up to you to be aware of the law. I don't know, but I doubt, that the US tax code is completely translated into Thai for example. I know the UK's isn't.

 

Either breathtaking arrogance or blind stupidity

[newbee2022]

9 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

Did the RD office official state / confirm that any differences between the Thai language(?) 2024 forms and the online English language 2023 forms are either zero or insignificant? 

The officer told me to overwrite the online form (after printing) and send it as copies by mail or go personally to your RD office.

Seems to be doable.

 

I'd say the best YOU would go there and ask your personal questions. I can't answer your question