How safe is the retirement visa as a strategy to live in Thailand permanently?

[youreavinalaff]

13 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Can't you guys just agree we are allowed to stay another year based on retirement visa. Not that complicated?

Can't agree on that because it's not correct. 

[donmuang37]

On 1/30/2025 at 12:40 PM, Gaccha said:

The issue might be the problems of aging and the logistics involved in conforming to immigration law. You can usually do the 90 days online now, so you can limit having to visit the Immigration Office to (1) once a year for the extension, and (2) every time you travel you'll have to do a 90 days notice in-person.

 

The laws occasionally change, and that is generally harder for the elderly to handle. But as long as you keep watch on this forum it should be fine.

 

But if you reach 90 years, then I can imagine that it will become a struggle. But then life is always a struggle. 

Well, I'm 87 and I do my 90 online.  Occasionally, it doesn't work, so my younger wife does it for me.  For my annual extension, I simply go in with my wife and we do it ourselves.  I prepare all the documents  in advance and get a letter from K-Bank the day I apply.  I do use a wheeled walker for long distances, but it is no problem at Chiang Wattana.  Planning to return to the USA soon for about a year.  That trip may be a challenge.

[Confuscious]

I was told by the ThaiVisa/AseanNow guru's and Mod's many times that there is no such thing as a "Retirement visa".
Things has obviously been changed since then and now there exsists a "Retirment Visa".

[Cameroni]

On 1/30/2025 at 6:40 AM, Gaccha said:

The issue might be the problems of aging and the logistics involved in conforming to immigration law. You can usually do the 90 days online now, so you can limit having to visit the Immigration Office to (1) once a year for the extension, and (2) every time you travel you'll have to do a 90 days notice in-person.

 

The laws occasionally change, and that is generally harder for the elderly to handle. But as long as you keep watch on this forum it should be fine.

 

But if you reach 90 years, then I can imagine that it will become a struggle. But then life is always a struggle. 

 

First congratulations on taking a very, very long-sighted view. That's very wise and laudable.

 

Right now I have no issue to go to Pattaya once a year. If in 40 years I do find it a struggle, I'd still do it. What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. Thailand at any cost. 

 

If Donmuang can make it to the USA at 87, I'm pretty sure I can make it to Pattaya.

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Can't agree on that because it's not correct. 

Thai Retirement Visa

If you’re over 50 years of age, the Retirement Visa Thailand gives you the chance to spend your golden years in Thailand with fewer hassles. Before acquiring it, you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa before converting it to a Thai Retirement Visa, which will allow you to extend your visa up to a year. You can also renew it every year, allowing you to extend your stay indefinitely, as long as you continue to meet the requirements

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/1-Year-Thailand-Visa.php

[oldcpu]

11 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Thai Retirement Visa

If you’re over 50 years of age, the Retirement Visa Thailand gives you the chance to spend your golden years in Thailand with fewer hassles. Before acquiring it, you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa before converting it to a Thai Retirement Visa, which will allow you to extend your visa up to a year. You can also renew it every year, allowing you to extend your stay indefinitely, as long as you continue to meet the requirements

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/1-Year-Thailand-Visa.php

Siam legal?  < sigh  >

[Liverpool Lou]

On 1/30/2025 at 1:11 PM, Digitalbanana said:

Your thread should be titled "How safe is the agent supplied retirement ....".  Many of us just do it ourselves so there are no surprises as immigration law is very clear.

Does Immigration law state that using an agent is not permitted?   It has never been an issue for many decades so why are you expecting "surprises" or are you just fear-mongering?

[Hummin]

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Siam legal?  < sigh  >

Fair enough, but good enough

[DrJack54]

17 minutes ago, Hummin said:

I'm and many with me is okay with this description 

No offense however the scribble you quoted from Siam Legal is a nonsense.

It's a simplistic statement for folk that require that. 

In the same way that immigration offices have signs in different locations stating "VISA EXTENSION"

 

Most folk that advise on the forum let terms such as "retirement visa" slide. 

There is no such thing as retirement Visa. 

At the very best the term was used to describe Non O-A 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, Hummin said:

Thai Retirement Visa

If you’re over 50 years of age, the Retirement Visa Thailand gives you the chance to spend your golden years in Thailand with fewer hassles. Before acquiring it, you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa before converting it to a Thai Retirement Visa, which will allow you to extend your visa up to a year. You can also renew it every year, allowing you to extend your stay indefinitely, as long as you continue to meet the requirements

 

https://www.siam-legal.com/thailand-visa/1-Year-Thailand-Visa.php

Incorrect. Nothing is converted. You stay in Thailand with a permission to stay. That is extended, not the visa.

[Kerryd]

It is safe - if YOU follow the rules and meet the requirements.

In other words - do what you are supposed to do to live here legally.

There is no need to use an agent - unless you do not meet the requirements.

An Extension of Temporary Stay costs 1,900 baht. That's it.
Add a couple hundred baht for photos and photocopies every couple of years.

I put my 800k in a Fixed Term account the year before I could apply for a Non-O (and then apply for an Extension).

That money has sat there ever since. Doesn't earn a lot of interest but technically it earns more than enough to pay the fee for my annual Extension as well as those photocopies/photos and a Re-Entry permit or two. And I never have to worry about "topping up" the account or withdrawing "too much" or having to pay an "agent" to scam the requirements.

I've done 13 Extensions so far with NO problems and don't use an agent.

15 years ago, my 77 year old dad who was dying of lung cancer was still able to go to Immigration to apply for his Extension - 6 weeks before he died.

If he could do it - without an agent, there's no reason anyone else can't.

Pro tip: It's the SAME paperwork and photocopies needed every year. THINK about it and prepare it AHEAD of time. Get your photocopies done, update your bank book the day before you go. Sign your photocopies.

If you don't have a computer/printer, get extra copies of the TM.47 from Immigration and photocopy them and make extra copies of the required passport pages.

Each year it takes me barely 15 minutes to update and print the TM.47, print the scans of my passport pages, attach a photo and sign all the paperwork. A quick run to the bank to update my bank book and get my "bank letter".

When you arrive at Immigration all your paperwork should be 100% complete. It takes me maybe 4-5 minutes with the IO from the time I hand over my paperwork until I've paid the fee and he's taken my photo (with the "ticket number") and I'm heading for the door.

Pro tip: Take a pen with you so you can sign all the pages you didn't bother doing beforehand or the photocopies you decided you might not need this time.

Pro tip: SHOWER and wear CLEAN clothes before going to Immigration. Seriously - WTF are you thinking when you show up stinking of body odour and looking like you haven't changed your clothes in weeks ?

And yes - I HAVE seen people sit down with an IO and hand over their passport and bank book - and then expect the IO to fill out the paperwork and make the photocopies for them. (And of course they are ahead of me in line every time.)

And yes, there are always people who "forgot" to make photocopies or sign half their paperwork and need a pen.

And yes, far too often I've had to stand in line with people who stunk so bad it almost made you retch. And it sucks when they are directly behind you and you approach the desk/IO and they see you and then get hit with the smell and think it's you. (I've even made eye contact with an IO, pointed at my nose and then behind me so he knew it wasn't me that stunk so bad.)

I spent 10 years working in Afghanistan and you could literally smell them from 500 meters away if the breeze was right - and they didn't smell as bad as some people I've seen at Jomtien Immigration.

And people wonder why so many of the Immigration Officers seem to be in a bad mood all the time.

(Another good reason to show up really early - to catch them before their mood turns really sour !)

Still shake my head when people claim they'd rather pay an agent 20,000+ baht to get their Extension for them - because they "can't be bothered" to spend 15 minutes to do the paperwork themselves and only pay 1,900 baht instead.

Uh huh. 

 

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

I've done 13 Extensions so far with NO problems and don't use an agent.

Good for you.

The OP is using an agent.

The thread is not a out legality or otherwise of agents.

22 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Still shake my head when people claim they'd rather pay an agent 20,000+ baht to get their Extension for them - because they "can't be bothered" to spend 15 minutes to do the paperwork themselves and only pay 1,900 baht instead.

You have an opinion fine.

Many see it differently.

[Hummin]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

No offense however the scribble you quoted from Siam Legal is a nonsense.

It's a simplistic statement for folk that require that. 

In the same way that immigration offices have signs in different locations stating "VISA EXTENSION"

 

Most folk that advise on the forum let terms such as "retirement visa" slide. 

There is no such thing as retirement Visa. 

At the very best the term was used to describe Non O-A 

 

 

It is convinient to explain the differences between stay in Thailand based on marriage or 50 years and above. And also the one year extension based on same requirements. 

 

Even Thai embassy using retirement and stay based on family. 

 

 

https://oslo.thaiembassy.org/en

[DrJack54]

14 minutes ago, Hummin said:

It is convinient to explain the differences between stay in Thailand based on marriage or 50 years and above. And also the one year extension based on same requirements. 

Nup.

You quoted Siam Legal and here is one snippet....

" Before acquiring it, you will need to apply for a Non-Immigrant O Visa before converting it to a Thai Retirement Visa, which will allow you to extend your visa up to a year" 

 

I can hardly read that without feeling ill. 

 

[Goethe]

4 hours ago, Kerryd said:

It is safe - if YOU follow the rules and meet the requirements.

In other words - do what you are supposed to do to live here legally.

There is no need to use an agent - unless you do not meet the requirements.

An Extension of Temporary Stay costs 1,900 baht. That's it.
Add a couple hundred baht for photos and photocopies every couple of years.

I put my 800k in a Fixed Term account the year before I could apply for a Non-O (and then apply for an Extension).

That money has sat there ever since. Doesn't earn a lot of interest but technically it earns more than enough to pay the fee for my annual Extension as well as those photocopies/photos and a Re-Entry permit or two. And I never have to worry about "topping up" the account or withdrawing "too much" or having to pay an "agent" to scam the requirements.

I've done 13 Extensions so far with NO problems and don't use an agent.

15 years ago, my 77 year old dad who was dying of lung cancer was still able to go to Immigration to apply for his Extension - 6 weeks before he died.

If he could do it - without an agent, there's no reason anyone else can't.

Pro tip: It's the SAME paperwork and photocopies needed every year. THINK about it and prepare it AHEAD of time. Get your photocopies done, update your bank book the day before you go. Sign your photocopies.

If you don't have a computer/printer, get extra copies of the TM.47 from Immigration and photocopy them and make extra copies of the required passport pages.

Each year it takes me barely 15 minutes to update and print the TM.47, print the scans of my passport pages, attach a photo and sign all the paperwork. A quick run to the bank to update my bank book and get my "bank letter".

When you arrive at Immigration all your paperwork should be 100% complete. It takes me maybe 4-5 minutes with the IO from the time I hand over my paperwork until I've paid the fee and he's taken my photo (with the "ticket number") and I'm heading for the door.

Pro tip: Take a pen with you so you can sign all the pages you didn't bother doing beforehand or the photocopies you decided you might not need this time.

Pro tip: SHOWER and wear CLEAN clothes before going to Immigration. Seriously - WTF are you thinking when you show up stinking of body odour and looking like you haven't changed your clothes in weeks ?

And yes - I HAVE seen people sit down with an IO and hand over their passport and bank book - and then expect the IO to fill out the paperwork and make the photocopies for them. (And of course they are ahead of me in line every time.)

And yes, there are always people who "forgot" to make photocopies or sign half their paperwork and need a pen.

And yes, far too often I've had to stand in line with people who stunk so bad it almost made you retch. And it sucks when they are directly behind you and you approach the desk/IO and they see you and then get hit with the smell and think it's you. (I've even made eye contact with an IO, pointed at my nose and then behind me so he knew it wasn't me that stunk so bad.)

I spent 10 years working in Afghanistan and you could literally smell them from 500 meters away if the breeze was right - and they didn't smell as bad as some people I've seen at Jomtien Immigration.

And people wonder why so many of the Immigration Officers seem to be in a bad mood all the time.

(Another good reason to show up really early - to catch them before their mood turns really sour !)

Still shake my head when people claim they'd rather pay an agent 20,000+ baht to get their Extension for them - because they "can't be bothered" to spend 15 minutes to do the paperwork themselves and only pay 1,900 baht instead.

Uh huh. 

 

It's called freedom of choice. You have the freedom to do it your way; others choose to do it differently. I do everything legally, but choose to use an agent -- because I can afford to. One unpleasant fact that you cited: "And yes, far too often I've had to stand in line with people who stunk so bad it almost made you retch" is one of the reasons I stay away from Immigration. This forum is full of reports that underline the unpredictability of the process from year to year and from Office to Office. I pay a small fee, can be sure there will be no problems, pick up my passport the following day --  and sleep like an innocent child. 

[DrJack54]

Pros and cons of agents will be removed as off topic. 

[DrJack54]

Off topic post removed 

[Rob Browder]

On 1/31/2025 at 6:04 AM, Hummin said:

Read If you meet the requirements and do not use visa agents because of  lack of requirements.

It's the other way around.  The requirements get more difficult to encourage agent-use.  Those using agents will be the ones w/o new "challenges," though the rate could always increase. 

 

I budget with the expectation that next year immigration will force me to pay an agent, at double the current "agent rate," though I fully-meet the current requirements.  When I don't have to, that's "extra" money to spend on other things.

 

I have stayed in neighboring countries before, so would not be completely "fish out of water" if forced to move by a more drastic change in retirement extension requirements.  They can make up anything they want at the drop of a hat - "grandfathering" be damned (like they did before with DIY retirement-extensions, to generate more agent-business).  That said, current trends seem to be moving more towards leniency (see the DTV), than the other direction.

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Rob Browder said:

I budget with the expectation that next year immigration will force me to pay an agent, at double the current "agent rate," though I fully-meet the current requirements.  When I don't have to, that's "extra" money to spend on other things.

Usual scaremongering post. Your common theme. 

 

There is zero indication of you  state immigration "force me to pay agent" 

 

My most recent extension retirement Nov 5 (CW)  was same as every other year. 

Easy peasy. 

 

 

[KhunHeineken]

The retirement visa / extension appears to be stable, and has been for many years.  So much so, in my opinion, I think at some stage in the future the 800k / 65k will have to increase.  Maybe something like 1 million / 80k, but that is for another thread. 

 

Just be aware the retirement visa gives you no more rights here than someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp, except for getting a 5 year Thai drivers license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  It is, in effect, nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So much so, in my opinion, I think at some stage in the future the 800k / 65k will have to increase.  Maybe something like 1 million / 80k, but that is for another thread.

In other words a personal guess on what may occur. Meaningless..

 

5 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It is, in effect, nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa.

While both provide a temporary permission of stay tourist class status is different from extensions based on Non O.

 

[oldcpu]

32 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just be aware the retirement visa gives you no more rights here than someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp, except for getting a 5 year Thai drivers license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  It is, in effect, nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

 

I have yet to see anyone on a 30-day visa exemption stamp get a 1-year extension.

 

Further, when on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, without use of an agent, try to open a bank account here.

 

When on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, try to get a Yellow Book.

 

All of those can be done with a Type-O or Type-OA visa for reason of retirement (albeit the yellow book can be a bit problematic at times to get).

[KhunHeineken]

17 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

In other words a personal guess on what may occur. Meaningless..

Well, who am I to argue with a Mod, but think about it. 

 

It's been 800k / 65k for decades, yes, decades.  You know this. 

 

The 800k / 65k is supposed to be / prove what you are / can live on in Thailand. 

 

The cost of living all around the world, including Thailand, has gone up significantly in the decades since the 800k / 65k was introduced.

 

It can't stay at 800k / 65k forever, can it?  It's probably due, if not overdue, for an increase. 

 

21 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

While both provide a temporary permission of stay tourist class status is different from extensions based on Non O.

I remember this debate some time ago. 

 

The result, after many posts from many members, was the only extra benefit was not having to leave Thailand, and getting  5 year driving license as opposed to a 2 year license.  That was it. 

 

Other than the above, a person on a 30 day tourist exemption stamp could do anything and everything someone on a retirement visa could do.  Eg. sim card, buy a vehicle, buy a property, rent a property etc etc. 

[Caldera]

34 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Just be aware the retirement visa gives you no more rights here than someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp, except for getting a 5 year Thai drivers license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  It is, in effect, nothing more than a 12 month tourist visa. 

 

I disagree, having or not having non-immigrant "visa status" makes a big difference for those who want to LIVE (reside) in Thailand.

 

First and foremost, you can get consecutive 1-year extensions without having to leave the country. No worries about being denied entry for staying in Thailand "too much".

 

Then there's banking. Much easier to open bank accounts with a non-immigrant visa or extension thereof. Bigger choice of banks, a tourist's only option nowadays seems to be Bangkok Bank.

[Hummin]

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

I have yet to see anyone on a 30-day visa exemption stamp get a 1-year extension.

 

Further, when on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, without use of an agent, try to open a bank account here.

 

When on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, try to get a Yellow Book.

 

All of those can be done with a Type-O or Type-OA visa for reason of retirement (albeit the yellow book can be a bit problematic at times to get).

Bank account was easy on tourist visa

[Caldera]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Bank account was easy on tourist visa

 

WAS, yes. That used to be the case. Nowadays? Not really. 

[KhunHeineken]

4 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

I have yet to see anyone on a 30-day visa exemption stamp get a 1-year extension.

Just addressed that in a post. 

 

Not having to leave Thailand, and a 5 year driving license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license. That's it. 

 

Can you think of any other thing the retirement visa holder can do that a 30 day visa exempt stamp holder can not do? 

 

6 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

Further, when on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, without use of an agent, try to open a bank account here.

It can be done with an agent, therefore it can be done.  Do you agree?  Yes, or no?

 

7 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

When on a 30-day visa exemption stamp, try to get a Yellow Book.

Same thing, agents cover it, therefore, why would one need a yellow book?

 

8 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

All of those can be done with a Type-O or Type-OA visa for reason of retirement (albeit the yellow book can be a bit problematic at times to get).

Everything can be done here by someone with no more than a 30 days visa exemption stamp.  You said it yourself, with the assistance of an agent. 

 

One can even go from a 30 day visa exemption stamp to a retirement visa.  Costly, but can be done.

 

So, please do tell me, what can someone on a retirement visa do that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp not do, other than the two things I have mentioned? 

[oldcpu]

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Bank account was easy on tourist visa

 

Glad to read that. 

 

Of course 30-day visa exemption stamp (and even on newer 60-day visa exempt) is no longer easy.  It was possible 9 years ago ( I did such without an agent) but not so anymore.

[oldcpu]

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Not having to leave Thailand, and a 5 year driving license, as opposed to a 2 year driving license. That's it. 

 

I just told you.  Try to get a one year extension on your permission to stay in Thailand on a visa exempt.

 

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

Can you think of any other thing the retirement visa holder can do that a 30 day visa exempt stamp holder can not do? 

 

I just told you.

 

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

It can be done with an agent, therefore it can be done.  Do you agree?  Yes, or no?

 

Sure if you want to pay a bunch of extra $$$$$ that those on the 1-year visa don't have to pay. Those on the Non-O / OA visas are out drinking and eating with that money, while those Visa exempt have to hand it to an agent in order to circumvent bank policy.

 

AGAIN, without an agent, visa exempt you can't open a bank account.

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

 

Same thing, agents cover it, therefore, why would one need a yellow book?

 

Having a yellow book, allowed me to use that# as a tax-ID, unfreeze a foreign bank/trading account, and make a timely stock trade earning me $40,000 US.  Without the yellow book ? Nope.  The local RD office denied me a Thai TIN.

 

Is that clear enough for you.

 

So I ask you again, try to get a yellow book on a Visa exempt.  Try.

 

 

 

7 minutes ago, KhunHeineken said:

So, please do tell me, what can someone on a retirement visa do that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp not do, other than the two things I have mentioned? 

 

I just did.

 

[KhunHeineken]

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I disagree, having or not having non-immigrant "visa status" makes a big difference for those who want to LIVE (reside) in Thailand.

Addressed that in another post. 

 

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

First and foremost, you can get consecutive 1-year extensions without having to leave the country. No worries about being denied entry for staying in Thailand "too much".

I agree. 

 

I have never said "living" in Thailand on 30 day visa exemption stamps was an option. 

 

I asked about what extra "rights" does a retirement visa holder have that someone on a 30 day visa exemption stamp have, other than not having to leave Thailand and getting a 5 year driving license as opposed to a 2 year driving license.  Simple question, really.

 

9 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Then there's banking. Much easier to open bank accounts with a non-immigrant visa or extension thereof. Bigger choice of banks, a tourist's only option nowadays seems to be Bangkok Bank.

Nothing paying an agent can't fix.  Do you deny this?