Road Safety in Thailand – a summary of Perceptions and Reality

[kwilco]

9 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

I have no flaws in my posts. You're missing the point. I'm agreeing with you that it's a number of factors involved. What you seem to not understand is that it's still the drivers responsibility first that ensures safe driving, and not the police, roads, infrastructure, crash investigations, stats, data or anything else. I'm not saying all Thai drivers are bad. I'm saying many more are than in other countries which have the same laws and road conditions and policing. What am I overlooking? I listed everything you did, and added personal observations which many farangs here have also. We see how they drive here. We come from countries where others drive, some bad also. Stats show how bad things are here. Are you thinking the people aren't more at fault here than the police, infrastructure or crash investigations? I never said road safety was as simple as seeing more. Again, don't assume that you know more than others here.

 

You claim to acknowledge multiple factors in road safety but still default to blaming individual drivers—ignoring decades of research showing that safe systems—not just individual responsibility—reduce accidents and fatalities.

Saying 'it's the driver's responsibility first' is misleading. Of course, drivers play a role, but human error is inevitable everywhere. The difference between high-fatality and low-fatality countries isn’t driver competence—it’s how well the system protects against mistakes.

Blaming Thai drivers as inherently worse ignores the fact that when Thais drive in countries with stronger enforcement, infrastructure, and road safety policies, they follow the rules just like everyone else. The issue isn’t 'bad drivers'—it’s a system that doesn’t properly manage risk.

If you actually want to improve road safety, focus on scientific, data-driven solutions—not repeating stereotypes and personal observations that have no basis in real analysis."

[fredwiggy]

8 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

"Blaming 'incompetent Thai drivers' is just another variation of racial stereotyping. Thai drivers are no more or less competent than drivers anywhere else—the difference lies in the road safety system they operate within.

The claim that poor infrastructure isn’t a reason for deadly accidents is simply wrong. Road design plays a massive role in crash risk—lack of proper signage, poor lighting, unsafe intersections, and road maintenance issues all contribute to fatalities. That’s why countries with strong road safety policies focus on systemic improvements, not just blaming individuals.

Expecting drivers to just 'adjust their speed' without proper enforcement, road design, and public awareness campaigns ignores how road safety actually works. A Safe System approach recognizes that people make mistakes, so roads, vehicles, and policies must be designed to reduce the consequences of those mistakes.

Generalizing Thai drivers as ‘incompetent’ is lazy and unhelpful. If we want real change, we need to focus on data-driven solutions, not stereotypes."

Your words... "A Safe System approach recognizes that people make mistakes, so roads, vehicles, and policies must be designed to reduce the consequences of those mistakes."........... Explain how so many get into fatal accidents on straight, dry highways, driving safe vehicles and not drunk. You can have all the proper signs, intact roads, and less drivers on the road and still people will get into accidents. The point you're still missing. It is the DRIVERS responsibility first. No ones saying all Thai drivers are incompetent. Many see that it's many that are either incompetent, arrogant without care or ignorant of the listed laws .Any of these failures leads to accidents. There are bad drivers everywhere, as we all can see from stats worldwide. What everyone who cares sees, is that more fatal accidents happen here than almost anywhere else, and it's been going on for decades, and many of these accidents are happening on good roads, in daylight, with safe vehicles. Drivers follow the laws, accidents decrease or are eliminated.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, kwilco said:

 

You claim to acknowledge multiple factors in road safety but still default to blaming individual drivers—ignoring decades of research showing that safe systems—not just individual responsibility—reduce accidents and fatalities.

Saying 'it's the driver's responsibility first' is misleading. Of course, drivers play a role, but human error is inevitable everywhere. The difference between high-fatality and low-fatality countries isn’t driver competence—it’s how well the system protects against mistakes.

Blaming Thai drivers as inherently worse ignores the fact that when Thais drive in countries with stronger enforcement, infrastructure, and road safety policies, they follow the rules just like everyone else. The issue isn’t 'bad drivers'—it’s a system that doesn’t properly manage risk.

If you actually want to improve road safety, focus on scientific, data-driven solutions—not repeating stereotypes and personal observations that have no basis in real analysis."

READ ALL OF WHAT I WRITE AND STOP SKIMMING!

[kwilco]

10 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

READ what I write before commenting. I did not say road safety was just about bad drivers. I AGAIN, agreed with things you listed. What you are MISSING, is that I said it's still the DRIVERS responsibility first regarding road safety.

 

 

The idea that road safety is ‘first the driver’s responsibility’ ignores how modern road safety actually works. Road safety is a public health issue, not just an individual responsibility. People make mistakes everywhere—it’s universal human behavior, not a Thai issue.

That’s why successful road safety strategies focus on systemic solutions—better road design, effective enforcement, safer vehicles, and public education. Countries with the lowest road fatalities don’t have ‘better’ drivers—they have safer systems that reduce risks and protect people from their own (and others’) errors.

Shifting the blame solely onto drivers is outdated thinking. If we want fewer crashes and deaths, we need to talk about real solutions, not just individual responsibility.

[Olmate]

Now, listen to me boys! 

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Explain how so many get into fatal accidents on straight, dry highways, driving safe vehicles and not drunk

 

Your question is based on assumptions, not facts. Fatal accidents don’t happen just because of reckless drivers—they happen due to a combination of factors, including road design, enforcement, and systemic safety measures.

You claim Thailand has an unusually high number of fatal accidents on ‘straight, dry highways’ but ignore the actual data—statistically, you are less likely to die in a four-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the USA. This completely undermines your argument that Thai drivers are uniquely bad.

Furthermore, road construction and design in Thailand often create hazards—poor lane markings, sudden merges, unprotected intersections, and lack of enforcement of speeding all contribute to crashes. If you truly want to understand why accidents happen, you need to look at data-driven causes, not just personal anecdotes and stereotypes.

[fredwiggy]

10 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

 

The idea that road safety is ‘first the driver’s responsibility’ ignores how modern road safety actually works. Road safety is a public health issue, not just an individual responsibility. People make mistakes everywhere—it’s universal human behavior, not a Thai issue.

That’s why successful road safety strategies focus on systemic solutions—better road design, effective enforcement, safer vehicles, and public education. Countries with the lowest road fatalities don’t have ‘better’ drivers—they have safer systems that reduce risks and protect people from their own (and others’) errors.

Shifting the blame solely onto drivers is outdated thinking. If we want fewer crashes and deaths, we need to talk about real solutions, not just individual responsibility.

Yes, people make mistakes everywhere, using the same laws, good or bad roads, lack of or strict enforcement. What's different here doesn't have anything to do with being racist. It's easy to see why things go haywire here, and not only on the roads. It's personal attitudes some people have , especially about driving. The blame starts with the drivers, and accidents stop if THEY did what they're supposed to do. You can have the best roads on earth, safest vehicles and police standing on every road at 1 mile intervals, and people here will still get into accidents. It's on them, first.

[Oliver Holzerfilled]

I wouldn't fault someone for wearing a helmet and safety gear when walking next to and crossing streets and roads etc. here.

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

 

Your question is based on assumptions, not facts. Fatal accidents don’t happen just because of reckless drivers—they happen due to a combination of factors, including road design, enforcement, and systemic safety measures.

You claim Thailand has an unusually high number of fatal accidents on ‘straight, dry highways’ but ignore the actual data—statistically, you are less likely to die in a four-wheeled vehicle in Thailand than in the USA. This completely undermines your argument that Thai drivers are uniquely bad.

Furthermore, road construction and design in Thailand often create hazards—poor lane markings, sudden merges, unprotected intersections, and lack of enforcement of speeding all contribute to crashes. If you truly want to understand why accidents happen, you need to look at data-driven causes, not just personal anecdotes and stereotypes.

There are more scooter drivers here than almost everywhere else, and 85% of accidents, including fatal ones, are scooter involved. The US has millions of more vehicles and drivers, so there will be more accidents, for much the same reasons, speed being the top one. Fatal accidents happen because of bad driving habits, and not the roads. You adjust if you're a competent driver. Here, they speed on bad roads, which makes fatal happen, a lot. I again, did not say all Thai drivers are bad. The percentage is just much higher than western countries, and there are bad roads in all countries, and lack of enforcement in some areas. I do look at why accidents happen, and have known this since high school. That doesn't change. First and foremost, it's on the driver.

[kwilco]

Road safety is a public health issue—its goal is to protect drivers and other road users by creating a safer road environment.

Drivers everywhere make mistakes; this is a constant, like gravity or a round planet. There is nothing inherently or racially different about Thai drivers compared to those in Europe or the USA. All these regions have faced similar challenges, and they improved safety by adopting scientific, data-driven approaches—not by simply telling drivers to "be responsible," which has never worked anywhere.

The foundation of all effective road safety programs can be summed up in the 5 Es:

1. Education – Raising awareness and improving driver training
2. Enforcement – Consistent application of traffic laws
3. Engineering – Designing safer roads and infrastructure
4. Emergency Response – Rapid and effective medical care after crashes
5. Evaluation – Analyzing data to improve policies

For Thailand to improve road safety, authorities must embrace this evidence-based approach rather than relying on blame and personal responsibility alone.

 

[kwilco]

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

There are more scooter drivers here than almost everywhere else, and 85% of accidents, including fatal ones, are scooter involved. The US has millions of more vehicles and drivers, so there will be more accidents, for much the same reasons, speed being the top one. Fatal accidents happen because of bad driving habits, and not the roads. You adjust if you're a competent driver. Here, they speed on bad roads, which makes fatal happen, a lot. I again, did not say all Thai drivers are bad. The percentage is just much higher than western countries, and there are bad roads in all countries, and lack of enforcement in some areas. I do look at why accidents happen, and have known this since high school. That doesn't change. First and foremost, it's on the driver.

 

[fredwiggy]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Road safety is a public health issue - the basis is to PROTECT drivers and other road users against themselves by providing a safe raod environment.

In short drivers all over the world are a constant, like gravity and a round planet, they are a scientific fact - there is nothing inherently or racially stu[pid about Thai people and driving anymore thn in Europe or the USA - all these places had or have similar problems. THe problems are solved when the authorities adopt a scientific approach to road safety - telling drivers to "be responsible" never worked anywhere.

The authorities in most countries have adopted a scientific approach. There are tests, which here are lacking. There is enforcement of laws already , which is lacking here. There is road maintenance , which is terrible here and many other countries, especially developing and third world ones. There are signs everywhere, sometimes too many. Telling drivers to be responsible is part of education. People being people, they don't like to listen to authority, but then it's on them. If they don't follow the laws, they have accidents. You keep bringing the racist thing into an argument where no ones said anything about race. When one person says people here, not meaning all, are bad , incompetent, unsafe, arrogant, unskilled, or non caring drivers, not many would listen. When  many others say the same thing,seeing the same behavior, more people listen, and agree. When stats back this up, it becomes more factual and less opinions. When a person spends twice or more time behind the wheel, they see more of what actually goes on , so their observations are more legitimate than a person who stays in their home in the village watching reruns.

[kwilco]

Your argument is based on misleading comparisons and subjective judgments rather than facts.

First of all the total number of vehicles is irrelevant—road safety is measured in deaths per 100,000 people, not raw accident numbers. This standard metric allows fair comparison between countries, regardless of how many vehicles are on the road.

Then  "Scooter" is too vague—the term means different things in different countries. In Thailand, 50% of registered vehicles are 2-wheelers, your reference to scooters is no actual real group of vehicles

You lso get the figures wrong The more accurate figures are  - 75% of road deaths in Thailand involve 2-wheelers.

and 80% involve vulnerable road users (motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians).

Take away  these categories, and 4-wheeled vehicle occupants remain statistically less likely to die in Thailand than in the US.

Blaming drivers ignores the real problem—Thai roads are dangerously designed with inconsistent enforcement, poor crash response, and little accountability for infrastructure. Just telling people to "adjust" to unsafe roads is not a road safety strategy—it’s an excuse to ignore systemic failures.

Instead of making subjective claims about Thai driving, we should focus on scientific, proven strategies to reduce fatalities—just as other countries have done.

[kwilco]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You keep bringing the racist thing into an argument where no ones said anything about race.

Rcist always argue that the things they say aren't racist - sweeping and inaccurate generalisations about Thai driving are racist.

[bkk6060]

14 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Road safety is a public health issue—its goal is to protect drivers and other road users by creating a safer road environment.

Drivers everywhere make mistakes; this is a constant, like gravity or a round planet. There is nothing inherently or racially different about Thai drivers compared to those in Europe or the USA. All these regions have faced similar challenges, and they improved safety by adopting scientific, data-driven approaches—not by simply telling drivers to "be responsible," which has never worked anywhere.

The foundation of all effective road safety programs can be summed up in the 5 Es:

1. Education – Raising awareness and improving driver training
2. Enforcement – Consistent application of traffic laws
3. Engineering – Designing safer roads and infrastructure
4. Emergency Response – Rapid and effective medical care after crashes
5. Evaluation – Analyzing data to improve policies

For Thailand to improve road safety, authorities must embrace this evidence-based approach rather than relying on blame and personal responsibility alone.

 

Unfortunately, the 5 factors you list will never be implemented here.  It is not a priority and never will be.  The result is many Thai people are bad drivers uneducated, selfish, reckless drivers.  You keep bringing up race, it has nothing to do with race that is a naive comment and contradicting your explanation for the problems here.

[kwilco]

6 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

When  many others say the same thing,seeing the same behavior, more people listen, and agree. When stats back this up, it becomes more factual and less opinions.

first as mentioned earlier is confirmation bias and the second is that stats man nothing until analysed intelligently wgish is what I mentioned at the beginning about how the media grossly misuses the stats.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

our argument is based on misleading comparisons and subjective judgments rather than facts.

First of all the total number of vehicles is irrelevant—road safety is measured in deaths per 100,000 people, not raw accident numbers. This standard metric allows fair comparison between countries, regardless of how many vehicles are on the road.

Then  "Scooter" is too vague—the term means different things in different countries. In Thailand, 50% of registered vehicles are 2-wheelers, your reference to scooters is no actual real group of vehicles

You lso get the figures wrong The more accurate figures are  - 75% of road deaths in Thailand involve 2-wheelers.

and 80% involve vulnerable road users (motorcyclists, cyclists, pedestrians).

Take away  these categories, and 4-wheeled vehicle occupants remain statistically less likely to die in Thailand than in the US.

Blaming drivers ignores the real problem—Thai roads are dangerously designed with inconsistent enforcement, poor crash response, and little accountability for infrastructure. Just telling people to "adjust" to unsafe roads is not a road safety strategy—it’s an excuse to ignore systemic failures.

Instead of making subjective claims about Thai driving, we should focus on scientific, proven strategies to reduce fatalities—just as other countries have done.

Other countries use the same laws as here. Other countries have bad roads also. Other countries have scooter drivers. Response time has nothing to do with the accidents. It could mean the difference between a death and a life if they get there faster, yes, but it still has nothing to do with the accident happening. A good driver does adjust to road conditions. If you took all scooters out of Thailand, you would see accidents, and fatal ones, decrease substantially. There are more non scooter vehicles in other countries so the percentage of accidents of them is higher. You've said you drive here a lot right? Do you not see what goes on in daily driving here? I, and many others do. I again, have probably driven many more miles than you ever will, so I've seen more cases of both good and bad driving habits. This isn't my opinion, as that means little. This is first hand observations, and what I see here I didn't see anywhere else I've ever driven. This can be backed up by many others here, as I've seen posted for over 6 years, so I'm not alone. I drove in New Jersey for 30 years, right next to NYC, the most densely populated area in the US, and seen drivers do all sorts of things, but again, nothing to compare with here.

[fredwiggy]

7 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Rcist always argue that the things they say aren't racist - sweeping and inaccurate generalisations about Thai driving are racist.

No, it's plain observation, seeing that most drivers here are Thais. I had a Thai wife, and half Thai daughter, and a Thai girlfriend. Racist is what I'm not. It's not a generalization if it's ongoing, daily, for over 6 years.

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Unfortunately, the 5 factors you list will never be implemented here.  It is not a priority and never will be.  The result is many Thai people are bad drivers uneducated, selfish, reckless drivers.  You keep bringing up race, it has nothing to do with race that is a naive comment and contradicting your explanation for the problems here.

OK - just a fine example of the rubbish that is normally exhinbited on road safety - cynicism covering up ignorance. 

Your comment about Thai people’s driving is not only deeply offensive but also a gross oversimplification of a much larger issue. It’s dangerous and unfair to generalize an entire group of people based on the actions of some individuals. The real problems with traffic in Thailand, or anywhere else, are rooted in systemic issues such as a lack of proper driver education, ineffective law enforcement, underdeveloped infrastructure, and a general lack of respect for road safety. These are issues that affect everyone, not just a specific group of people.

It’s critical to recognize that driving behaviors are shaped by societal factors, not race. By shifting the blame to an entire nationality or ethnic group, we only hinder progress and prevent meaningful change. The solution lies in improving driver education, enforcing traffic laws more effectively, and working toward a culture that prioritizes safety, responsibility, and respect on the road. Let's move away from harmful stereotypes and focus on real, practical solutions to improve traffic safety for everyone, regardless of background."

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

first as mentioned earlier is confirmation bias and the second is that stats man nothing until analysed intelligently wgish is what I mentioned at the beginning about how the media grossly misuses the stats.

You can't grossly misuse a fact. It is what it is.

[kwilco]

1 minute ago, fredwiggy said:

it's plain observation

exactly "plain" subjective and anecdotal based purely on prejudice. You are totally failing to be objective and take a scientific approach 

[kwilco]

4 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

A good driver does adjust to road conditions

Trouble is that world over most are not "good drivers" - that's where road safety science comes in.

[cdemundo]

The OP seems to be informed about road safety.

Expert? I don't know.

 

To me he demonstrates what I have heard called "the unshakeable certainty of the half-educated".

If he has read one book about road safety I will wait for his opinion after he has read two books on road safety.

 

He may have a lot of good points but being dismissive and patronizing doesn't convince many people.

[fredwiggy]

1 minute ago, kwilco said:

OK - just a fine example of the rubbish that is normally exhinbited on road safety - cynicism covering up ignorance. 

Your comment about Thai people’s driving is not only deeply offensive but also a gross oversimplification of a much larger issue. It’s dangerous and unfair to generalize an entire group of people based on the actions of some individuals. The real problems with traffic in Thailand, or anywhere else, are rooted in systemic issues such as a lack of proper driver education, ineffective law enforcement, underdeveloped infrastructure, and a general lack of respect for road safety. These are issues that affect everyone, not just a specific group of people.

It’s critical to recognize that driving behaviors are shaped by societal factors, not race. By shifting the blame to an entire nationality or ethnic group, we only hinder progress and prevent meaningful change. The solution lies in improving driver education, enforcing traffic laws more effectively, and working toward a culture that prioritizes safety, responsibility, and respect on the road. Let's move away from harmful stereotypes and focus on real, practical solutions to improve traffic safety for everyone, regardless of background."

How is it deeply offensive? Are you Thai? if not, why are you sticking up for what's plainly obvious? Driving behavior is some ways shaped by societal factors. This doesn't give them an excuse for driving recklessly, incompetently or selfishly. That's plain bad driving habits and is why so many are killed here daily. A general lack of respect for road safety is incompetent behavior.The only way things will change here is if laws are enforced, education improves, testing is harder, and fines are levied immediately for offenses, as they are in western countries. You take a person's cash, it makes them think. You do it again, they think more. If they continue to break the driving laws, you take away the privelege. You get caught driving drunk,you lose your license for awhile.

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

exactly "plain" subjective and anecdotal based purely on prejudice. You are totally failing to be objective and take a scientific approach 

I knew the scientific approach long before I moved to Texas in 1985. It's not prejudice pointing out the obvious. I'm not lying when I say I see daily infractions here of driving. What have I got to gain?

[fredwiggy]

6 minutes ago, kwilco said:

Trouble is that world over most are not "good drivers" - that's where road safety science comes in.

No ones saying there aren't bad drivers all over the world. Stats show this. It's just that there are a lot more bad drivers here than anywhere I've ever driven, and the stats again show this. Again, Thailand doesn't have all the bad roads, lack of enforcement and bad infrastructure worldwide. It does have thousands that don't follow the laws already on the books. To get into a record book, you have to lead in something. That's where Thailand consistently leads, or is in the top 5 every year, and there are third world countries listed in the top 10, where total chaos in on the roads daily.

[novacova]

11 hours ago, kwilco said:

Unsafe Infrastructure: Poor road design and lack of pedestrian safety measures.

Inadequate Law Enforcement: Existing traffic laws are weakly enforced, often due to corruption.

These are the root causes. Most drivers are aware of traffic laws and ignore them due to the lack of enforcement and mind you that many careless drivers I see on the roads here are westerners, so no one is immune to driver stupidity.

unsafe infrastructure, “they”, for lack of a better term, here in cm have been upgrading the roads over the last seven or eight years or so with a slew of engineering errors, hazardous errors. Example, a convex roadbed on a curve, sudden curves on a multi lane road at the end of a long stretch, short merge lanes onto highways, the list goes on and on. 
These issues are challenging for individuals that come from and are used to a well controlled and well engineered road environment and haven’t had the experience of a broad range of road conditions. 

[seajae]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

over 20 years I've averaged between 30 and 40 km per annum - but more importantly I have a knowledge of road safety and am able to critically analyse what I see. 

really, as far as we all know you may well have your hand on it as well. Thai drivers/riders in general are not the best, many have no idea of the actual road rules, at the video  training during licence renewal all of them are too busy on their phones and not watching, they are not interested in what the laws are.

Their learner driving is pathetic at best, our daughter did 1 week of driving around an enclosed track, drove on an actual road for an hour or so and was given a licence, she had no idea at all how to do a lot of basic driving skills, the questions were multiple choice  after a couple of hours of reading them without actually understanding what they meant plus no one was failed for getting them wrong.

Many riders/drivers are unlicensed, they refuse to follow the rules because it doesnt suit them, they drive the way they want, they drive the opposite way on roads, they overtake on double lines/blind corners, they cut right turning corners forcing oncoming cars off the road, they overtake into oncoming traffic flashing their lights to say they are not going to give way, they drive through red lights a lot, they do not give right of way, they just stop in the lane they are in to go into a shop, they pull out in front of other cars to get where they want to be forcing the cars to stop, they think being "rich" or driving an expensive car gives them the right to do as they please, many are arrogant and simply refuse to let other get in their way.

The police do not enforce road rules and only go out to get tea money, you may or may not be what you claim but you also show you are an appologist for the poor driving in this country. There are some good drivers/riders in Thailand but the greater majority are not among them. I have been driving for over 50 years, cars, bikes, trucks, busses, heavy equipment as well as service vehicles, I understand road safety very well and have never caused an accident, thais do not have th same driving sense, while some of what you say is correct  trying to take the blame away from the poor driving skills/mentallity of thais is a white wash as is calling anyone pointing out how bad they are as being racist. You really need to pull your head from where you have stuck it, you summations are in your head only and not fact, I am calling BS on your claims.