How to send an Alzheimer's patient back to the U.K.? - From Bangkok

[Furioso]

Just now, Harrisfan said:

Why don't you escort him or you too busy as well?

I already told my friend I will escort him back if need be. He hasn't taken me up on my offer...yet. 

[Harrisfan]

Just now, Furioso said:

I already told my friend I will escort him back if need be. He hasn't taken me up on my offer...yet. 

Just do it. Dont tell them.

[Furioso]

5 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Just do it. Dont tell them.

I know I should but I don't even know the guy. But, if they don't get their s together...

[Sheryl]

5 minutes ago, Furioso said:

Good points Sheryl. To summarize what I know, please forgive me for repeating some of this info.  My friend knows him because he's part of a small group of friends who get together about 2 times a year for dinner in Bangkok. I think they're ex-golfing buddies.  And yes, the guy who has dementia is able to walk fine, seems spritely but he's forgetting a lot. The friends have decided he needs help as his condition is obviously going to get worse. He sold his apartment, is currently renting. I think his financial situation is just "ok". I don't know how much care would cost here in Thailand, maybe that's why they want to send him back to U.K. He's 83, has no family except an 86 year old sister and a niece who he may barely know.

 

As a group they are trying to arrange everything and I believe they're going to contact the Embassy, which is very important as they will probably learn A LOT about how to assist an ailing British ex-pat in Thailand. They're going to find out they can't just put him on a plane solo. Also these friends may not be very close, just ex golfing buddies who happen to care enough to try and help this guy. I can kind of relate as I'm here with no family and only have a few casual friends scattered between here and Las Vegas.

 

He's 83 and alone and now he needs help but barely has anyone in his life to help him. I wonder how common a situation like this arises?

 

It is probably going to cost more in the UK than in Thailand, and someone would have to arrange it.

 

This is because NHS pays for care homes only when there is a need for skilled physical care as opposed to "custodial care".

 

"

NHS continuing healthcare and NHS-funded nursing care

If the person with dementia has complex health and care needs, they may be eligible for NHS continuing healthcare. This is free and is funded by their local integrated care board (ICB).

A diagnosis of dementia doesn't necessarily mean the person will qualify for NHS continuing healthcare.

People who don't qualify for continuing healthcare, but have been assessed as needing care in a nursing home, may be eligible for NHS-funded nursing care.

This means the NHS will pay a contribution towards the cost of their nursing care.

Find out more about NHS continuing healthcare and NHS-funded nursing care."

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dementia/care-and-support/care-homes/

 

It sounds like these friends of his are not knowlegeable about what services are available and at what cost in the UK for people with dementia. It is not a good situation and thus sending him back to UK is nto the solution they assume it to be. If his problems were of a different type (eg cancer, heart disease) it would be a bit different.

 

See also  https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/get-support/legal-financial/paying-for-care

"Dementia care isn't free"

[Harrisfan]

Just now, Furioso said:

I know I should but I don't even know the guy. But, if they don't get their s together...

They dont sound like real friends to me. Up to you. Tough call. Thailand would be a tough place to live if your marbles are gone.

[Furioso]

2 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

They dont sound like real friends to me. Up to you. Tough call. Thailand would be a tough place to live if your marbles are gone.

I don't know, they seem to be doing what they can they just haven't put all the pieces together yet. I've seen my friend answer texts/answer phone calls discussing plans/finances, etc. Honestly if the sick guy has led a loner lifestyle without any close attachments these golfing "friends" maybe be a godsend. 

[Harrisfan]

7 minutes ago, Furioso said:

I don't know, they seem to be doing what they can they just haven't put all the pieces together yet. I've seen my friend answer texts/answer phone calls discussing plans/finances, etc. Honestly if the sick guy has led a loner lifestyle without any close attachments these golfing "friends" maybe be a godsend. 

Where did you meet this guy?

[Pouatchee]

22 hours ago, Furioso said:

A friend has Alzheimers he needs to be taken care of. Dumping him on a plane by himself is ridiculous. 

 

You keep going on about how bad everyone is, but have you considered even once that maybe 80 some year old friends don't have the budget to pay for a return ticket? also, maybe these 80 year old friends dont have a place to stay while abroad. This old coot should have organized his own crap rather than dumping the responsibility on others. my grandfather did the same thing to my mother and what he did was selfish. So no pity here for this old guy. He should have made plans while he was still lucid rather than hit the beer bars and deny his own fate.

[Furioso]

2 minutes ago, Pouatchee said:

 

You keep going on about how bad everyone is, but have you considered even once that maybe 80 some year old friends don't have the budget to pay for a return ticket? also, maybe these 80 year old friends dont have a place to stay while abroad. This old coot should have organized his own crap rather than dumping the responsibility on others. my grandfather did the same thing to my mother and what he did was selfish. So no pity here for this old guy. He should have made plans while he was still lucid rather than hit the beer bars and deny his own fate.

At least one of the guys literally has way more money than what he knows to do with.

 

Still, you're right if you're an older single person you must make proper contingency plans. I'm 59 and going down the same path.. so this is a wake up call that I need to make plans for my ultimate demise I don't want to burden others. I had another friend who was 46 living in Pattaya and he didn't take care of himself. Yep, beer bars, restaurants, awful food..hitting on everything that moved, thinking he was the studliest man in Pattaya. Well, a few months ago he went home, sat down and died. He was a big, tall guy. His roommate told me they came and literally plopped him down 2 flights of stairs, making an awful noise. He didn't care to make plans either but ultimately they did have a service for him at a later date. 

[Furioso]

12 minutes ago, Harrisfan said:

Where did you meet this guy?

I don't know the guy who has dementia but my friend who knows him is my neighbor. 

[theblether]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Just noticed this, they need to start working on passport extension straightaway. And extension of stay in Thailand, as I assume that current expiration does not go beyond current passport expiration.

 

Situation will be dire is his passport and permission to stay expire while he is still here. and it really does not sound likely they can get him back to UK before 15 March. He could end up in the Immigration detention center, literally.

 

I am curious as to just what they think simply showing up at a hospital in the UK with Alzheimers is going to achieve? He will not qualify for hospital admission just because of dementia. Care home placement in UK takes time and costs money. Where would he stay in the meantime? Who would handler the arrangements?

 

Not feasible to send him back to the UK unless/until there is a plan in place addressing these points.

 

 

 

Is NancyL still with us? She was well versed in these matters in Thailand. 

 

If the Thai authorities are approached, especially by a NGO, and the situation is explained it's very unlikely that they will treat him like a regular overstayer. I have a memory of a case in Chiang Mai around 10 years ago where the Thai authorities waived visa requirements and the individual was placed in an assisted living facility. At whose expense, I don't know. 

 

I do remember NancyL responding to a report of a lone dementia sufferer in the Hang Dong area. When he was found, it was also found that he lived with his Thai family and his adult children, that he had fathered, were actively looking after him. The report was derived from a sighting when he wandered away from his family while shopping.  

 

Anyway, this looks like a handwashing exercise to me - get him on the aircraft and he's someone else's problem. We know there's serious doubts as to whether he'll be allowed to board in the first place. I'd be looking to the Embassy, or a local NGO to get involved. 

[theblether]

I just saw the news that NancyL passed away two years ago. That was a bad loss to the CM expatriate community. 

 

Does anyone remember the name of the organisation that she supported that looked after the elderly in CM? 

[Tropicalevo]

23 hours ago, simon43 said:

You can't open doors once the plane is pressurised 🙂

I realise that but it would create a state of panic with other passengers and he would be in a ton of trouble with the airline.

They would probably restrain him on the flight.

[theblether]

Just now, Tropicalevo said:

I realise that but it would create a state of panic with other passengers and he would be in a ton of trouble with the airline.

They would probably restrain him on the flight.

 

Another issue, that I hope the OP has considered, is that the gentleman with dementia might take a dislike to him. I've seen irrational dislikes blow up several times in the past. 

 

In the OP's mind it will be an uneventful flight, may well not be. The last time I was privy to a dementia patient blowing up things were thrown continuously around the room. 

 

Remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. 

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, theblether said:

I just saw the news that NancyL passed away two years ago. That was a bad loss to the CM expatriate community. 

 

Does anyone remember the name of the organisation that she supported that looked after the elderly in CM? 

It was LannaCare but it collapsed after she died, unfortunately.

[scorecard]

On 2/14/2025 at 5:32 PM, Tropicalevo said:

 

I agree with you. He should be escorted.

What if halfway through the flight he forgets where he is and tries to open the plane door.

 

Not fair to the cabin / flight crew and other passengers if he flies alone?

 

If the cabin / flight crew are told in advance that he will be flying alone, maybe they might refuse to allow him on board. Wouldn't really blame them.

 

Would there be a refueling stop?  if yes would passenger deboard the aircraft? Meaning that he would be roaming around the stop over airport lost and confused and not aware what to do / where to go next.

 

 

 

[yankyoakum]

a UK guy just went home couple weeks back, dudes 80+ and has dementia also has Thai wife Rayong province. He wrecked the car here back in November and has turned abusive to his wife. He is also to the point of diapers and needs constant help. He went back in December and his UK daughter we assume sent him back here couple weeks later, He returned with a tour package ticket with a tourist visa that was supposedly on March 14th, his 60 day visa expired in Feb somehow he managed to get on the flight and we have not heard any more. His Thai wife is completely illiterate, exists by doing Thai massage and has very little (she's over 50).  This is sad and only way I know about this is my wife uses this lady for massage at our place.  I suspect his kin in UK think this woman has lot of money.. Truthfully she has a wrecked small older car, a scoopy and a run down small house. No idea what the guy did for a living but hope he gets care in UK that he needs 

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, Jaggg88 said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

As soon as the airline staff see his condition he will likely be refused boarding if he has no one to take care of him during the flight.   The cabin crew, even if they wanted to, are not permitted to take on that responsibility.

This is not correct. You can book an accompanied flight for elderly or disabled people. Airline staff will look after him from check-in to arrival. They look after everything but he will need a fit-to-fly certificate

You didn't read my post, did you?   It is accurate and I specifically referred to his being alone - you know, no one to take care of him on the flight.   The OP made no mention of an accompanied flight being arranged.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 hours ago, OJAS said:

Might be worthwhile @Furioso checking specifically with relevant airlines what their policies are on transporting severely-handicapped individuals unaccompanied.

They will not accept them unaccompanied, cabin crew are not nursemaids and cannot take responsibility for him in addition to the safety risk in the event of an emergency if he does not know what is going on.

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

I am curious as to just what they think simply showing up at a hospital in the UK with Alzheimers is going to achieve?

Probably to force an introduction to social services.

[vinny41]

4 hours ago, Furioso said:

Good points Sheryl. To summarize what I know, please forgive me for repeating some of this info.  My friend knows him because he's part of a small group of friends who get together about 2 times a year for dinner in Bangkok. I think they're ex-golfing buddies.  And yes, the guy who has dementia is able to walk fine, seems spritely but he's forgetting a lot. The friends have decided he needs help as his condition is obviously going to get worse. He sold his apartment, is currently renting. I think his financial situation is just "ok". I don't know how much care would cost here in Thailand, maybe that's why they want to send him back to U.K. He's 83, has no family except an 86 year old sister and a niece who he may barely know.

 

As a group they are trying to arrange everything and I believe they're going to contact the Embassy, which is very important as they will probably learn A LOT about how to assist an ailing British ex-pat in Thailand. They're going to find out they can't just put him on a plane solo. Also these friends may not be very close, just ex golfing buddies who happen to care enough to try and help this guy. I can kind of relate as I'm here with no family and only have a few casual friends scattered between here and Las Vegas.

 

He's 83 and alone and now he needs help but barely has anyone in his life to help him. I wonder how common a situation like this arises?

has the person officially been  diagnosed with having either  Alzheimer's or Dementia and is he on medication that slows the condition 

Is he fullly aware of the discussions take are taking part with relocating to the Uk and is he taking an active part in these discussions

has he ever got lost and unable to find his way home while shopping

Are his friends aware of the 7 stages of 7 stages of Alzheimer’s or Dementia and in their view what stage is he currently at

People with Alzheimer’s or Dementia have good days and bad days each month

On the good days its very diffcult to see that they have  Alzheimer’s or Dementia if they are familar with UK news they have no issue naming current uk  prime minister or naming who is head of UK royal family

My late mother was diagnosed with  Dementia in 2010  she was 86 years old at the time did she have it earlier before then no ones knows

for 6 years she lived at home with my father taking care of her mainly doing the cooking and ensuring she took the correct medication at the right time

In 2016 she moved into a care home by that time she was Stage 5 out of 7 

Hallucinations: Seeing things that aren’t there

Delusions: False beliefs that you believe to be true

Paranoia: The feeling that others are against you

Whe she sets off the security alarm at 03:00 in the morning and when ask why she wanted to open the front door because her sister and her husband were waiting outside ( both of whom were dead )

Constantly falling down I witnessed it once it seem like there was a disconnect between the brain and her feet so just collapased to the ground

if the guy is at the early stages of  Alzheimer’s or Dementia and it just memory   lapses he may not need an escort back to the UK and he miight be well emought to live in managed sheltered accommodation

 

 

[soi3eddie]

23 hours ago, vinny41 said:

If he has sufficent assets a care home in Thailand would provide a better quality of life than a care home in the UK at a far lower cost

 

This is my thought too. Why go back to the gloomy and cold UK where he knows nobody, except for a niece he may not have seen in decades and an aged sister who may not be able to care for him. Surely staying in Thailand where he apparently has some "friends" is a better option for this gent's remaining days. If he's been living in Thailand, then assume he has enough funds to continue to do so either in a modest care home or in his own place with assistance. What a sad situation for him (if he even realises). Why make it worse by a long journey to a place where nobody will care properly for him?

 

[geisha]

On 2/14/2025 at 9:35 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

As soon as the airline staff see his condition he will likely be refused boarding if he has no one to take care of him during the flight.   The cabin crew, even if they wanted to, are not permitted to take on that responsibility.

How about paying for assistance at the airport ? Just like people who have a handicap or wheelchair. They are there all the way with the person, to the plane doors where the hostess takes the person to their seat. 

[vinny41]

NHS Continuing Healthcare  funded by the NHS is postcode lottery 1st question social services ask do you have assets funds over £23,250 even though Eligibility for NHS continuing healthcare (CHC) is based on assessed needs, not assets or savings. 

 

Hard Hitting Drama

Jenny and Claire then discover that their mother should qualify for NHS Continuing Healthcare, which means all Mary's health costs would be paid for by the NHS. This fact is withheld from them by the cash-strapped health authority, sending the sisters into battle against a broken system, determined to secure the level of care their mother deserves.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bvbf5n

 

Continuing Healthcare: The Secret Fund

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04p86c4

 

This site has excellent advice

NHS Continuing Healthcare is NHS money that covers the cost of care for people who meet certain criteria in terms of their care needs. It is not means-tested and eligibility has nothing to do with a person’s money, home or savings.

If you (or a relative) need full time care and you have a certain level of savings/assets, you’ll probably be told to pay. But this is where mistakes are made. If you have health needs you should first be assessed for NHS Continuing Healthcare funding

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/

[Lorry]

4 hours ago, geisha said:

How about paying for assistance at the airport ? Just like people who have a handicap or wheelchair. They are there all the way with the person, to the plane doors where the hostess takes the person to their seat. 

This will work IF he is still lucid enough not to cause problems.

Just order a wheelchair and get a non-stop flight.

If he is so demented that he does things like getting out of the wheelchair,  refusing to board,  unable to eat... whatever,  he needs someone to travel with him.

If he is incontinent, or cannot use the toilet on the plane,  things get complicated. 

[JimHuaHin]

As hinted at previously, have you asked any airlines if they would be willing to take him and if so under what conditions, eg accompanying nurse, guardian, etc.?

 

Is his niece willing to take care of him?

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, geisha said:

How about paying for assistance at the airport ? Just like people who have a handicap or wheelchair. They are there all the way with the person, to the plane doors where the hostess takes the person to their seat. 

And who looks after the dementia patient once he's on the plane?   Not the cabin crew, that's for sure.  And who is going to be responsible for him and/or assist him in the event of an emergency evacuation in which he may have no idea about what is going on or what to do?  Those are the reasons for his probably being denied boarding if the airline staff are nade aware of his condition, as they should be.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 2/15/2025 at 3:21 AM, Moonlover said:

From my own perspective, having been away from the UK for over 20 years and being almost 80, the thought of being sent back there, in my dotage horrifies me!

Agree 100%.

 

A lot of info missing- does he have any money- pension etc that can cover costs of care in Thailand? If so forget the flight. Have to be mad to go back to the (un)tender mercies of the NHS. The cost of the flight would buy a lot of care in Thailand.

Does he have insurance that would include repatriation ( probably not ).

Is he even entitled to care on the NHS?

Who is looking after him now?

The niece would have to be mad to agree to take him. Why can't one of his friends do that?

 

End of the day, he's the author of his own problem by not thinking ahead and making arrangements in the event of ................... when he was OK.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, geisha said:

How about paying for assistance at the airport ? Just like people who have a handicap or wheelchair. They are there all the way with the person, to the plane doors where the hostess takes the person to their seat. 

Thai does not charge for wheelchair assistance. I had it and I gave the guy a tip. Notify the airline when booking the flight and they arrange it. Same at Heathrow, except I didn't tip.

[Liverpool Lou]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Thai does not charge for wheelchair assistance. I had it and I gave the guy a tip. Notify the airline when booking the flight and they arrange it. Same at Heathrow, except I didn't tip.

There could be a lot more to dealing with a dementia patient than wheeling him around the airport in a chair.