How to send an Alzheimer's patient back to the U.K.? - From Bangkok

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

And who looks after the dementia patient once he's on the plane?   Not the cabin crew, that's for sure.  And who is going to be responsible for him and/or assist him in the event of an emergency evacuation in which he may have no idea about what is going on or what to do?  Those are the reasons for his probably being denied boarding if the airline staff are nade aware of his condition, as they should be.

The crew will restrain him if he is a problem. Handcuffed to the seat probably. Bit of a problem if incontinent.

If they don't know before and suspect something they would be within rights to refuse boarding.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Pouatchee said:

This old coot should have organized his own crap rather than dumping the responsibility on others. my grandfather did the same thing to my mother and what he did was selfish. So no pity here for this old guy. He should have made plans while he was still lucid rather than hit the beer bars and deny his own fate.

Agree 100%.

[Liverpool Lou]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

End of the day, he's the author of his own problem by not thinking ahead and making arrangements in the event of ................... when he was OK.

Seriously, how many people make plans to deal with our own years-away, potential dementia when we're compos mentis?!

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

There could be a lot more to dealing with a dementia patient than wheeling him around the airport in a chair.

I was responding to the poster that said it has to be paid for, not his condition. Unless it's changed it doesn't have to be paid for with a Thai ticket- don't know about other airlines.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Seriously, how many people make plans to deal with our own years-away, potential dementia when we're compos mentis?!

Most people don't because they ignore the fact they will get old. There is a description of that, which I won't use here.

Far as I'm concerned, don't plan ahead and either have loadsacash or really good family or friends.

Your condition is YOUR responsibility not casual acquaintances.

I took responsibility for my future needs by leaving Thailand for good, not hanging on with no plan, no money and no family.

[norfolkandchance]

11 hours ago, geisha said:

How about paying for assistance at the airport ? Just like people who have a handicap or wheelchair. They are there all the way with the person, to the plane doors where the hostess takes the person to their seat. 

Wheelchair assistance is free. I would suggest he should have a chaperone for the entire journey.

[kingstonkid]

18 hours ago, Furioso said:

I already told my friend I will escort him back if need be. He hasn't taken me up on my offer...yet. 

The challenge you will have is first the cost. second where are you escorting him to.  As  @Sheryl said there is o where for him to go right off the plane.  You will get there and be stuck there with him unti something gets sorted and really do you think the UK health system is going to move fast.

 

I think it would seem a better idea to see about getting his passport renewed.  This can be done quick if you present all the info but rule out returning to the U.K. Find him a home to stay in or find him a lady that will look after him in the condo/apartment he has.  Then allyou have to do is once a month check up on him.

[The Fugitive]

11 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

The challenge you will have is first the cost. second where are you escorting him to.  As  @Sheryl said there is o where for him to go right off the plane.  You will get there and be stuck there with him unti something gets sorted and really do you think the UK health system is going to move fast.

 

I think it would seem a better idea to see about getting his passport renewed.  This can be done quick if you present all the info but rule out returning to the U.K. Find him a home to stay in or find him a lady that will look after him in the condo/apartment he has.  Then allyou have to do is once a month check up on him.

The very best suggestions! Others amount to abandoning him on the UK NHS assuming they could be tricked/convinced to admit him to hospital in the first place.

[GammaGlobulin]

On 2/14/2025 at 5:39 PM, sidjameson said:

Thailand has care homes starting at 25k a month.  Wouldn't that be better?

 

Yes.

Anything would be better than some western style sterile environment.

The niece should be made aware that this is a better option.

 

[PJPom]

I have been following this thread and I am amazed that there is still so much discussion about the problems on a Plane, why ? . I know the OP has the best of intentions but look at the alternatives, the plane idea seems totally unrealistic.

I am pleased that @Sheryl has joined in with her sensible comments especially regarding care in Thailand.  As I said before Thailand has been promoted as a perfect place for aged care as the cost is usually less than The Australian age pension.

The number of elderly Parents consigned to the aged care industry in Australia is very sad , nobody seems to want Granny or Granddad any more, they would rather pay or spend their inheritance and visit occasionally .

Regarding costs , if he has sold a property he must have some funds and I would assume he receives some sort of pension so Thai care accommodation should be well within his reach, why send him back to the unknown.

I am from the UK originally via fifty years in Australia, soon to be eighty and luckily married to a Thai Lady who I am sure will look after me until the day I end up in the fire, I'm lucky......

[Sheryl]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The crew will restrain him if he is a problem. Handcuffed to the seat probably. Bit of a problem if incontinent.

If they don't know before and suspect something they would be within rights to refuse boarding.

From OP's description the man is fully ambulatory and docile/cooperative. Just very forgetful.  No suggestion of incontinence. Probably nothing at all in his appearance or manner that would alert check in staff and unlikely to be disruptive on the flight. But, highly likely  to get lost and confused in both departure snd arrival airpirts, pkys  he lacks a destination once in UK.

 

People seem to be imagining a wheelchair bound, feeble  person unable to communicate. Not at all what has been described. 

 

Right up to the day he died of complications of Alzheimers my father looked outwardly normal and would certainly have been issued a boarding pass (assuming he found the check in counter).  But he would then  have gotten list trying to find the flight gate on his own. 

 

The man in question does not sound like he is in terminal phase of Aozheimers by any means. Just too forgetful/confused to live (or travel) on his own.

 

The iverriding issue is not just the mechanics of travel but the lack of a plan for his placement and unrealisrltic expectations of the NHS. 

[Sheryl]

10 hours ago, Lorry said:

This will work IF he is still lucid enough not to cause problems.

Just order a wheelchair and get a non-stop flight.

If he is so demented that he does things like getting out of the wheelchair,  refusing to board,  unable to eat... whatever,  he needs someone to travel with him.

If he is incontinent, or cannot use the toilet on the plane,  things get complicated. 

OP has clarified that he walks fine and is "sprightly", and speaks clearly. Just forgetful.

 

This is not a wheelchair scenario. It is a fully ambulatory man who to any stranger would seem fine at first...and is currenyly living, bathing, eating etc on his own. Even callng/texting on financial affairs.   But is increasingly forgetful.  Which makes it definitely the time to make long term arrangements, and not a good idea to take an international trip solo. Even accompanied, very bad idea to travel with no one to receive him and take respinsiibility at  the other end.

 

 

 

 

 

[Moonlover]

42 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OP has clarified that he walks fine and is "sprightly", and speaks clearly. Just forgetful.

 

This is not a wheelchair scenario. It is a fully ambulatory man who to any stranger would seem fine at first...and is currenyly living, bathing, eating etc on his own. Even callng/texting on financial affairs.   But is increasingly forgetful.  Which makes it definitely the time to make long term arrangements, and not a good idea to take an international trip solo. Even accompanied, very bad idea to travel with no one to receive him and take respinsiibility at  the other end.

 

 

 

 

 

Just to make a point on that Sheryl, the BBC have run a couple of series' called 'reported missing'. Many of the subjects that they have had to make searches for were dementia suffers who had simply wandered away from home, maybe to take a walk in the park or something and couldn't find their way home again. Some ended up many miles away from their starting point!

 

My own mother was in a care home, which was exclusively for dementia sufferers. On a cold winter's night she got out of bed, went out through a fire door, (which for safety reasons could not be locked of course) and was found, frozen to death in the snow the following morning.

 

So I've had a particular interest in this issue. Sending a dementia sufferer half way round the world, escorted or not, without very solid action plan at the other end is just of the question.

[vinny41]

Just Forgetful, or Is It Dementia?

“We now know the early warning signs of Alzheimer’s disease can begin some 15 years before symptoms of mild cognitive impairment, or long before the beginning signs of a dementia surface,”

In order to distinguish the ordinary forgetfulness that comes with aging from more serious problems like Alzheimer’s disease, it helps to consider some key symptoms of mild cognitive impairment and the early stages of dementia.

Medical and mental health conditions, like depression or a deficiency in vitamin B12, can also make someone forgetful. These conditions are treatable and reversible.

https://www.alzinfo.org/just-forgetful-or-is-it-dementia/

Stages 1-3 are the pre-dementia stages;

STAGE 4: MODERATE COGNITIVE DECLINE
MILD DEMENTIA

https://www.alzinfo.org/understand-alzheimers/clinical-stages-of-alzheimers/

Just because a person suffers from Memory lapse's doesn't mean that they have  Alzheimer’s or dementia

Family and Friends may not noticed a change in a  loved one until that  person reaches stage 4

[Lorry]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

This is not a wheelchair scenario.

You are right.

But the easiest way to get help at the airport is ordering a wheelchair (free) if your age makes it plausible that you cannot walk those endless miles through the airports. 

 

You are right,  again, that  traveling to the UK only makes sense if he has someone and somewhere to go.

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

 

Yes.

Anything would be better than some western style sterile environment.

The niece should be made aware that this is a better option.

 

If the niece has any sense she will ignore any future communications from anyone involved in this IMO mad scheme.

As the saying goes- he made his bed etc.

If anyone wants to assist good for them, but I suspect it will come under the category of "no good deed goes unpunished".

 

IMO, the best option seems to be doping him enough to get back to the UK, abandoning him at Heathrow and catching the first flight back to Thailand. That way it becomes the problem for the UK health authorities. In Thailand unless he can pay it's not a happy ending.

[superal]

I escorted an English man back to the UK because of dementia .I had been helping him because he could not get money from the A.T.M. I spent an afternoon on the phone to his UK bank asking them to confirm his PIN number because he could not get any money . The bank were loathe to give any info but finally after much pleading by me , they said that the PIN was correct but there was no money in his account . He was being ripped off by his Thai lady . She was an aggressive woman who was against his return to the UK but when I told her he was going back to sell his house and then return to Thailand , she agreed  . A further complication was he had not renewed his retirement visa and was 1 year overdue . At Suvarnibhum  I had to explain his dementia and paid the 20,000 baht fine . I was in contact with his son who was unable to fly to Thailand because of business commitments . The son paid for the flights .  After arriving in the UK I kept in touch with his son who told me that the doctors believed he had been drugged over some time and was now in a better health .  

Care homes waiting times in the UK can be as much as 5 months and longer under social care .

[Dan O]

There are private courier companies that transport pretty much anything of value. For the fee they dont care. You can also contact any number of medical transport companies that fly injured customers and they can probably also assist. He absolutely should not fly alone for any reason 

[kingstonkid]

1 hour ago, Dan O said:

There are private courier companies that transport pretty much anything of value. For the fee they dont care. You can also contact any number of medical transport companies that fly injured customers and they can probably also assist. He absolutely should not fly alone for any reason 

No one is arguing that he can get to the U.K.  that is a given the issue is what is he supposed to do once he gets there.  No hospital is going to take him in.  The NHS is backlogged his niece does not seem to be in the picture.

 

The only questions are

Does he make enough money to qualify for a retirement visa?

Is there a facility that will take him 

[Dan O]

22 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

No one is arguing that he can get to the U.K.  that is a given the issue is what is he supposed to do once he gets there.  No hospital is going to take him in.  The NHS is backlogged his niece does not seem to be in the picture.

 

The only questions are

Does he make enough money to qualify for a retirement visa?

Is there a facility that will take him 

My reply was to OP on how to get him there. I was not part of or addressing any discussion other than that.

[kingstonkid]

3 minutes ago, Dan O said:

My reply was to OP on how to get him there. I was not part of or addressing any discussion other than that.

Fair enough, but it seems inhumane to throw him on a plane and send him somewhere that no one knows him, and the weather is rainy and F ing cold.  

 

I would rank that with the guy who takes a bunch of kitten,s throws them in a bag, and throws it in the river 

[Dan O]

51 minutes ago, kingstonkid said:

Fair enough, but it seems inhumane to throw him on a plane and send him somewhere that no one knows him, and the weather is rainy and F ing cold.  

 

I would rank that with the guy who takes a bunch of kitten,s throws them in a bag, and throws it in the river 

I agree 1000 %. The last 15 years of working was in Private Senior Living Facilities in the USA so I have seen first hand  what goes on their, both in private facilities, state nursing homes and also with families unable to have time or money to help give care correctly. Add on the dementia aspect and it compounds the care needed exponentially

[Puccini]

I went back to the opening post of this topic because something has been nagging me at the back of my head.

 

@Furioso Why are the man's three or four friends so eager to get him on a plane to the UK? Does one of them have a power of attorney for his Thai bank account? What will happen to the money in that account?

[motdaeng]

3 hours ago, Puccini said:

I went back to the opening post of this topic because something has been nagging me at the back of my head.

 

@Furioso Why are the man's three or four friends so eager to get him on a plane to the UK? Does one of them have a power of attorney for his Thai bank account? What will happen to the money in that account?

 

... they might have access to his accounts using his atm cards ... it's so evil of me to even think of something like this ... 

[The Fugitive]

20 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Fair enough, but it seems inhumane to throw him on a plane and send him somewhere that no one knows him, and the weather is rainy and F ing cold.  

 

I would rank that with the guy who takes a bunch of kitten,s throws them in a bag, and throws it in the river

There may be a problem in Thailand if he needs hospital treatment and all his income/savings are being used to pay his residential home fees. In UK he would get treatment (at least in theory) irrespective of his ability to pay.

[Moonlover]

43 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

There may be a problem in Thailand if he needs hospital treatment and all his income/savings are being used to pay his residential home fees. In UK he would get treatment (at least in theory) irrespective of his ability to pay.

Dementia sufferers generally need care 'in place' rather than hospital treatment. I rather think there are more options here in Thailand than there are in the UK where there are issues with cash, staff and facilities. Read Sheryl's comments earlier in this thread.

[The Fugitive]

10 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Dementia sufferers generally need care 'in place' rather than hospital treatment. I rather think there are more options here in Thailand than there are in the UK where there are issues with cash, staff and facilities. Read Sheryl's comments earlier in this thread.

Sheryl has pointed out that the gentleman isn't a 'basket case' and that the UK NHS wouldn't provide custodial care without additional medical needs. In this case, local authority social services dept. would be involved as they are obligated to provide support for his social requirements. I have had family experience of Alzheimers disease and both residential and nursing homes. Aunt was diagnosed in her mid sixties. Her husband managed to cope with her at home for as long as possible but finally she went into a nursing home where she was very well looked after until she died aged 81. She was partially funded apparently. A GP visited the home and, as you say, prescribed medication is administered by qualified nursing staff. In other situations, staff called ambulances and the resident went to hospital, sometimes never to return.

[Sheryl]

1 hour ago, The Fugitive said:

Sheryl has pointed out that the gentleman isn't a 'basket case' and that the UK NHS wouldn't provide custodial care without additional medical needs. In this case, local authority social services dept. would be involved as they are obligated to provide support for his social requirements. I have had family experience of Alzheimers disease and both residential and nursing homes. Aunt was diagnosed in her mid sixties. Her husband managed to cope with her at home for as long as possible but finally she went into a nursing home where she was very well looked after until she died aged 81. She was partially funded apparently. A GP visited the home and, as you say, prescribed medication is administered by qualified nursing staff. In other situations, staff called ambulances and the resident went to hospital, sometimes never to return.

Problrm here is that he has no home in the UK and apparently no one able/willing to take him  in, even temporarily --  though this last needs to be better ascertained. Last word was that elderly sister and niece have not even been contacted. (This, at least,  Embassy should be able to assist with.) 

 

Since he does not remotely meet criteria for hospitalization, first step would have to be establishing a place of residence, registering with a GP (nowadays this alone can take months),  and then contacting local social services. Without even  a UK address and no destination in UK I don't see how that can be done. 

 

Whether in UK or Thailand, residential  or home care, he needs to have a reliable person with power of attorney to managd his affairs. 

[The Fugitive]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Problrm here is that he has no home in the UK and apparently no one able/willing to take him  in, even temporarily --  though this last needs to be better ascertained. Last word was that elderly sister and niece have not even been contacted. (This, at least,  Embassy should be able to assist with.) 

 

Since he does not remotely meet criteria for hospitalization, first step would have to be establishing a place of residence, registering with a GP (nowadays this alone can take months),  and then contacting local social services. Without even  a UK address and no destination in UK I don't see how that can be done. 

 

Whether in UK or Thailand, residential  or home care, he needs to have a reliable person with power of attorney to managd his affairs.

Agree. The fact there is nobody with Power of Attorney is, perhaps, the most worrying as it applies whatever the outcome. Another poster has raised concerns about the possible motives of the 'friends' trying to help. I once had to seek out of hours help from my Local Authority Social Services Department. I know they have a duty social worker available 24 hours per day. Local Authority social workers are also present on NHS hospital wards ensuring that suitable accommodation and any necessary care packages are available and in place prior to patients being discharged. If 'push comes to shove' establishing a place of residence and registering with a GP can be circumvented. Repatriation could be made possible by taking the gentlemen to A/E upon arrival, explaining that he had a 'funny turn' and asking, in view of his age, would they kindly check him out? Once he was booked in his friend would then leave him in the care of the NHS and Social Services Dept.

[superal]

As he has been out of the UK for a long period , he may not be entitled to free NHS treatment ? Unfair I think but I seem to recall that does happen .

 

Ironically there are many invaders jumping into rubber dinghies in France to cross the channel to the welcoming arms of the UK authorities , put into hotels where they are taken good care of and get free hospital treatment . Sorry to digress but this is typical of how some real Brits are treated .