Ukraine’s Fate Was Sealed Long Before Aid Was Cut

[jvs]

1 hour ago, frank83628 said:

The betrayal was Biden Inc lying to Ukraine they would win, while indebting them to the US for life.

 

Some of us knew this because we don't blindly follow everything were told by the legacy media

No, the betrayal is all on Trump.

Refusing to call Putin the aggressor and saying The Ukraine started this war is a knife in the back of

Zelensky.

The US lost the respect of the rest of the free world.

Of all the weapons send to the Ukraine only 25% came from the US.

How could Zelensky ever go to the White house knowing he was betrayed before he got there.

Shame on the US and Trump.

Slava Ukraine!

 

 

[BangkokReady]

The whole of the West cannot really be expected to support an indefinite stalemate war, nor a long-winded years long war of attrition.  Otherwise, it's essentially the West vs. Russia, via the Ukraine.

 

We were told that Russia's army was useless with few men, antique equipment, and that it wouldn't last long.  Three years later, this does not seem to be the case.

 

It's probably a good time to end it now.  If Zelensky cannot accept anything other than victory over Russia, it's inevitable that support is going to wane.

 

Similarly, if Trump haters don't want the war to end, simply because it might make Trump look good, well, you need to take a long look at yourself.

[johng]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

Refusing to call Putin the aggressor and saying The Ukraine started this war

 

They did  jointly start this particular phase of the war by provoking Russia since 2014 Maidan coup  continual shelling of the eastern Russian speaking regions

and talk of joining NATO  and then just as an agreement was in hand in the early stages of the Russian "invasion"

"Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson" and Co  persuades Zelinsky to fight to the last Ukrainian...we have your back...yeah right !!!!!!

 

Viva la peace and prosperity    Just say say no to war.

[The Old Bull]

This was Biden's war he encouraged Zelensky to antagonize the Russians subsequently he was able to enrich many US arms suppliers.

Trump looks at the bigger picture as US tax payers are on the hook for this and is putting a stop to this nonsense.

[transam]

10 minutes ago, The Old Bull said:

This was Biden's war he encouraged Zelensky to antagonize the Russians subsequently he was able to enrich many US arms suppliers.

Trump looks at the bigger picture as US tax payers are on the hook for this and is putting a stop to this nonsense.

Yeeeeh, riiiiiiiighht......................🤣.............................

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, jippytum said:

doesn't explain Trump's 100% backing for Putin and removing Tariffs on Russian imports. Something  fishy going on here. 

Reality of the facts, Trump doesn't want war The only President in my life time that has actively sought to end a war.

All the others said it and then flipped the second they were elected. You've all been propagandised for so long that any outcome other than Russia losing just doenst compute. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

Reality of the facts, Trump doesn't want war The only President in my life time that has actively sought to end a war.

All the others said it and then flipped the second they were elected. You've all been propagandised for so long that any outcome other than Russia losing just doenst compute. 

Wrong..........

Trump did not end the Afghan campaign, Biden did when he got in.......................🙄

[frank83628]

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

You have no idea that you are the deluded one. Trump's focus on making deals through appeasement of aggressors, rather than upholding principles or supporting allies, could have far-reaching consequences for global stability and security.

Principles like what.... our enemies must be destroyed?  Never deal with terrorists, (unless its Al-queda in syria, we just brush our principles undernthe carpet)

Cold wars over gandpa, get into 2025

[Hakuna Matata]

2 hours ago, dinsdale said:

The players now are Trump, Putin and the EU in that order.

 

Yes, absolutely. Eventually, China, Russia and United States will divide the world into 3 spheres of influence. There is no place for Europe in this new project. Europe will be assigned to the Russian zone of influence. It doesn't mean that Russia will invade Europe. But Brussels will no longer be a center of Europe... What do you think?

[billd766]

1 hour ago, jvs said:

No, the betrayal is all on Trump.

Refusing to call Putin the aggressor and saying The Ukraine started this war is a knife in the back of

Zelensky.

The US lost the respect of the rest of the free world.

Of all the weapons send to the Ukraine only 25% came from the US.

How could Zelensky ever go to the White house knowing he was betrayed before he got there.

Shame on the US and Trump.

Slava Ukraine!

 

 

Snip from your post.

 

Shame on the US and Trump.

 

IMHO, the shame is on Trump and Vance alone, and not the majority of the US people as they have little choice in what is happening in their name.

 

Slava Ukraine!

[Hakuna Matata]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The Ukrainian war has been a major success

 

At what cost? Ukrainian lives do not matter, do they?

[Mike_Hunt]

It's time for the cowardly Europeans to put some boots on the ground and expel Russia from Ukraine.   Oh wait, they lack the resources to do so. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

It's time for the cowardly Europeans to put some boots on the ground and expel Russia from Ukraine.   Oh wait, they lack the resources to do so. 

"Cowardly Europeans", have you spelt your username correctly............?  🤔

[ExpatOilWorker]

22 minutes ago, Hakuna Matata said:

 

At what cost? Ukrainian lives do not matter, do they?

Ukrainian lives, both civilian and military 🪖, matter a great deal, but the responsibility of every live lost in this war fall square on Russian shoulders.

The west was happy with a status quo.

[BexMan]

Trump stated at his last meeting he wants to save lives.

 

If that is the case, I can't understand:

 

1) the withdrawal of the intelligence sharing with Ukraine;

The advance warning of incoming Russian missiles will now result in additional Ukrainian injuries and deaths.

 

2) the cessation of ALL military aid.

If he wants to save lives, why not allow the provision of defensive missiles like the Patriot missiles.

[frank83628]

50 minutes ago, transam said:

Wrong..........

Trump did not end the Afghan campaign, Biden did when he got in.......................🙄

Nobody even mentioned Afghan you report button weasel

[transam]

2 minutes ago, BexMan said:

Trump stated at his last meeting he wants to save lives.

 

If that is the case, I can't understand:

 

1) the withdrawal of the intelligence sharing with Ukraine;

The advance warning of incoming Russian missiles will now result in additional Ukrainian injuries and deaths.

 

2) the cessation of ALL military aid.

If he wants to save lives, why not allow the provision of defensive missiles like the Patriot missiles.

The bloke is an habitual liar.........🤥

[transam]

Just now, frank83628 said:

Nobody even mentioned Afghan you report button weasel

I did, you were wrong, go read your post again...

 

What is the report button weasel about....?

I am sorry if you keep getting buried.........🥴

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

In part this is correct so why is it that some continue to say Putin won't stop with Ukraine. An expansionist threat yet weaponry and manpower being depleted. How many on here have said Putin won't stop with just Ukraine. The reality is Putin doesn't want all of Ukraine and cannot take on the might of NATO.

Because an agressive Russia can do many things that fall below the threshold of war.

Cutting cables, killing people with novichok and polonium, proxy wars in Syria and Africa. They could also make an incursion to connect Kaliningrad to mainland Russia. 

There is a good documentary on Netflix called "Turning Point" about the Cold War and how it shaped the world and the Russia we are facing today. In there, that say, the only language Russia understands is violence or the threat of violence. Europe need to prepare for war to avoid war.

[dutch boy]

Just like Vietnam and Germany the Ukraine war is not winnable. You cannot win against Russia, the Germans tried that in WW2 with millions of its soldiers and look where it got them. I certainly applaud the Ukraine people for their tough fight but it is hopeless. I think Trump realizes this and is trying to end the slaughter and destruction of the Ukraine.

[ExpatOilWorker]

30 minutes ago, dutch boy said:

Just like Vietnam and Germany the Ukraine war is not winnable. You cannot win against Russia, the Germans tried that in WW2 with millions of its soldiers and look where it got them. I certainly applaud the Ukraine people for their tough fight but it is hopeless. I think Trump realizes this and is trying to end the slaughter and destruction of the Ukraine.

Vietnam 🇻🇳 or the Vietnam War is a good example of exactly why Ukraine 🇺🇦 can win the war. In Vietnam a poorly equipped, but very determined army was up against a vastly superior invading force. Fighting for your homeland and very existence make a difference. 

As for Germany 🇩🇪,  yeah, probably not a good idea for Ukraine to march on Moscow.

[ExpatOilWorker]

4 hours ago, LiamB80 said:

As an American I want nothing to do with Ukraine. Corrupt to the core, elitist kiddie fiddler playground and US biolabs they would never dare put on American soil. Europeans have been fed a load of fake news regarding how Americans feel about them and Ukraine. Fight your own battles Europe, I just don’t think you can though. 

Killing commies on the cheap, what is not to like?

 

Top contributors in aid for Ukraine/person:

Denmark: 1850€/person
Norway: 1520€/person
Netherlands: 744€/person
Finland: 700€/person
Sweden: 610€/person
Then there's USA: 196€/person

 

 

[frank83628]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The Ukrainian war has been a major success,  in the sense that it is the last war Russia 🇷🇺 will ever fight with its large Soviet era military 🪖 equipment stockpile. 

Russia 🇷🇺 has effectively been disarmed and it will take them decades to rebuild an army to defend their 20,000 km of land borders.

So you don't think they made any thing new? Is hypersonic missile Soviet era?

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, frank83628 said:

So you don't think they made any thing new? Is hypersonic missile Soviet era?

Nope, but as we have seen in Ukraine 🇺🇦, even large numbers of missiles don't win a war.

European military 🪖 strategy was always bases on the fear that Russia would roll 10,000 tanks over the flat plains of Poland all the way to Paris over a long weekend. That thread is no longer there, thanks to Ukraine. 

[johng]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Russia 🇷🇺 has effectively been disarmed and it will take them decades to rebuild

 

No I think it is EU  and to lesser degree US  that have been "disarmed"  by sending "all their inventory" to Ukraine ... yes yes   old stock outdated models

yada yada  yada   the point is they are out of ammo and  there is no capacity at the moment to replace it and also no persons to fill the "boots on the ground"

"peacekeeping force"   which would not in fact be a peacekeeping force as Russia has said they won't accept that   so it will be  WWIII

[0ffshore360]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The Ukrainian war has been a major success,  in the sense that it is the last war Russia 🇷🇺 will ever fight with its large Soviet era military 🪖 equipment stockpile. 

Russia 🇷🇺 has effectively been disarmed and it will take them decades to rebuild an army to defend their 20,000 km of land borders.

IMHO this war has identified the fact that lumbering military equipment of any origin has been proven inadequate against the  more readily production capacity of armed UAV and missiles of various assignation.

The stockpiles of Soviet era equipment has seen a clearance on a global scale.

Satellites have surpassed spy planes.

Robots are not far from entering the scenario of ground battles.

The success has been in demonstrating the desire  for war is better countered by eliminating the cause for war.

Not easy due to the industries that profiteer.

 

 

 

 

[Hakuna Matata]

1 hour ago, dutch boy said:

Just like Vietnam and Germany the Ukraine war is not winnable. You cannot win against Russia, the Germans tried that in WW2 with millions of its soldiers and look where it got them. I certainly applaud the Ukraine people for their tough fight but it is hopeless. I think Trump realizes this and is trying to end the slaughter and destruction of the Ukraine.

 

Yes, absolutely!

 

 

[frank83628]

25 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Nope, but as we have seen in Ukraine 🇺🇦, even large numbers of missiles don't win a war.

European military 🪖 strategy was always bases on the fear that Russia would roll 10,000 tanks over the flat plains of Poland all the way to Paris over a long weekend. That thread is no longer there, thanks to Ukraine. 

*seen on MSM reports, don't forget none of your news comes from Russia, its only western propaganda, they are hardly likely to say Russia has this new tech and its amazing are they. Don't forget, according to your media Russia had lost the war from the beginning, however now , that have 20% of Ukilriane mineral rich land,  but but CNN told me Putin is bad

[frank83628]

2 hours ago, transam said:

I did, you were wrong, go read your post again...

 

What is the report button weasel about....?

I am sorry if you keep getting buried.........🥴

You are on the spectrum for sure

[Hakuna Matata]