Could Trump's plan fail in a spectacular fashion?

[advancebooking]

6 hours ago, Cameroni said:

DOGE has so far saved 4 billion USD of waste and corruption

Elon said today on fox news that its 4bn a day savings. 

 

I agree with what he is doing. They should do it in the UK as well and oz. 

 

But I dont agree with Trump on anything really. 

[bubblegum]

41 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Let me explain it to you. If you make shirts and i make coats, and I sell to you 100 USD worth of coats and you are selling me 160 USD worth of shirts, then I am subsidizing you with 60 USD. This is what Canada is doing with the US. It is just not a good deal for the US and Trump is right to call Canada out on this.

Lol. Or call it a bad deal? You really do live in an alternatives facts world.

[bannork]

US farmers hit by Chinese retaliation for Trump's tariffs.

Nothing like hurting your own base.

"China's retaliatory tariffs are a direct hit to U.S. farmers - CBS News" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-tariffs-us-farmers/

[0ffshore360]

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You can play the short term clown or you can look at the long term effects tariffs will have, make US products more attractive and save and create US jobs. Not to mention fill US coffers with tariff money.

In all honesty I fail to see the rationale in your statement.

Trump's tariffs have already attracted retaliatory measures. Most of those will/have decreased product choice via imports and created restrictions on viable supply chains for raw materials for industries to eventually  supply a local product at an inevitably increased cost. Remembering that  for  many/most essential products requires investment in establishing infrastructure as an initial stage.

Tariff money will be extracted from the internal economy and so will decrease the volume of cash in the taxable  public domain.

The conductors of the project will introduce a reversal of money printing and reduce real cash volumes as a strategy to force digital financial compliance and consequently federal "kontrol" in a myriad of ways.

In the short term it is only the already very wealthy who will be in a position to scoop up any surviving viable company  stocks and shares in a depression.

Military drone factories could be a short term winner ?

 

 

[Tug]

Good thread Mr Mike my take is yes no doubt about it the betrayal of our allies the betrayal of Ukraine the sucking up to the worst governments existing today…….this moronic trade war with our erstwhile friends……to me as a simple lay person it’s in my humble opinion a hostile takeover of the government to shape it in a more authoritarian manner.no more no less.our enemies are delighted no doubt about it.

[bannork]

The trade deficit the US has with Canada is largely tied to the price of crude oil, and Canada exports millions of barrels of crude oil daily to the US. Indeed, more than half of US crude oil comes from Canada.

Last summer Canadian crude oil exports to the U.S. peaked at 4.3 million barrels per day.

In fact, when those oil exports are removed from the equation, the U.S. actually has a trade surplus with Canada, according to economic data. In 2023, that surplus was more than US$30 billion, the TD analysis showed.

U.S.-Canada trade deficit is highest in 20 years. Does it justify tariffs? - National | Globalnews.ca

 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, MicroB said:

 

A very Glaswegian looking face. Make it a pint of 80 shilling and a wee pie.

Too much time on the golf courses and not enough studying economics and common sense!!

[candide]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Only thanks to the US. Not much in it, and if the money from Canada goes to Russia instead, Russia could soon have the higher GDP.

No. Thanks to Putin! 

[spidermike007]

2 hours ago, steven100 said:

just for you ....

Trump so richly they deserves that kind of treatment, one can only dream about somebody with some common sense slapping him around to no end. 

 

More of that kind of thing should have happened when he was a young boy and throughout his teen years. 

[ronnie50]

Trump just doubled the tax on Canadian steel and aluminium. Quebec's up next. Turn off the lights to the eastern seaboard of the US.

[Patong2021]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

The US does subsidize Canada with 60 billion USD each year. Let me explain it to you. If you make shirts and i make coats, and I sell to you 100 USD worth of coats and you are selling me 160 USD worth of shirts, then I am subsidizing you with 60 USD. This is what Canada is doing with the US. It is just not a good deal for the US and Trump is right to call Canada out on this.

 

 

Simply not true, Canada has been bending over backwards doing a ballerina pirouette telling Trump "pretty please we are now improving border controls, do not tariff us".

 

And yes, the US can get aluminium from Russia and most likely on better terms and prices than from Canada, and probably better quality too. This would have the added advantage of not having the crazy rip off trade deficit the Canadians have got away with for so long, like thieves in the night.

 

Canada isn't selling the US coats. The trade deficit is attributable to the US purchase of low cost Canadian oil. The US has a trade surplus once oil is taken out of the equation. Try again, this time with actual economic data.

 

The US claims on border control have been proven as a lie. There is no fentanyl problem at the Canadian border. Yes, Canada made an effort to avoid this, and rightly so because it will cost Canadians, but the country is all in now. The  new PM designate is the former Bank of Canada and Bank of England Governor with a doctorate in Economics from Oxford. I reckon he knows a thing or two about managing an economy in crisis. I also expect that he has some pretty good connections with other  countries.

 

So, now you expect the USA will import Russian aluminum and become dependent upon Russia.

It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. The use of Russia which has  its nuclear arsenal pointed at US ciities isn'tnecessarily going to go over very well with a lot of Americans.

 

You are offering a lot of hot air, based upon Trump's ramblings on X and Truth Social. Trump is setting himself for impeachment again. This time  for treason.

 

[Dan O]

10 hours ago, hotsun said:

Right, the democrats had a plan though. Let in third worlders that will vote democrat. See what europe is doing now

Don't make such stupid statements without facts to back you up

[Bannoi]

I wonder if he's still going to put 25% tariffs on the EU and what tariffs they would retaliate with.

Tariffs are just another word for a tax on the American People.

 

Some recent Headlines

 

Canada seeks Stronger EU Ties in Face of Trumps Tariffs.

China Mexico and Canada Expand Trade and Political Ties.

Mercosur, the South American trade bloc whose core members are Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Paraguay, and Uruguay, has finally signed a trade agreement with the European Union (EU)

Trump is Pushing Europe and China Closer Together.

 

Then again Trump knows better so I'm sure it will all work out just fine for him as long as he doesn't lose his golf clubs.

 Or perhaps he could be declared insane and removed from the OvalOffice in a Straight Jacket.

 

He's only been in power 2 months and already America's reputation on the world stage is in tatters Anti-American sentiment is at an all time high and now he's talking about a depression being a good idea.

 

America is going to be left high and dry on it's own isolated with no country wanting to trade with it and nobody wanting to buy anything American if this moron is allowed to continue he clearly hasn't got a clue what he's doing and trying to rule like a king with his executive orders.

[puck2]

10 hours ago, Harrisfan said:

Americans are liked more than most.

 

Under Trump ?     

 

People in the world liked and loved Obama for many reasons. He is and was one of the most intelligent POTUS America ever had elected.

 

The orange painted face is just the contrary. Under Trump America's prestige  goes

down 

                     down

                                               down     

                                  

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

Disaster Don just announced an increase in the tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum in his insane escalating trade war. Here comes the Trump recession. 

 

Trump's tariffs are likely to push up prices on everyday items for US consumers, said John Rogers, an economics professor at American International University.

"Prices could go up pretty soon," Rogers warned, though he was reluctant to say by exactly how much or how quickly.

 

"We are in pretty uncharted territory," he told the BBC.

Steel and aluminium, "those go into all kinds of other products", Rogers said.

"So you protect the US steel industry, but you wind up paying more for steel.

"That's going to affect the price of anything that has steel in it - your automobiles, your dishwashers and other appliances, your construction."

For Rogers, it was hard to see any upside of a US-Canada trade war.

 

"Everybody's just going to wind up paying higher prices, sacrificing quality, even the American manufacturers, who are going to be presumably the beneficiaries," he said.

[spidermike007]

Disaster Don just announced an increase in the tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum in his insane escalating trade war. Here comes the Trump recession. 

 

Trump's tariffs are likely to push up prices on everyday items for US consumers, said John Rogers, an economics professor at American International University.

"Prices could go up pretty soon," Rogers warned, though he was reluctant to say by exactly how much or how quickly.

 

"We are in pretty uncharted territory," he told the BBC.

Steel and aluminium, "those go into all kinds of other products", Rogers said.

"So you protect the US steel industry, but you wind up paying more for steel.

"That's going to affect the price of anything that has steel in it - your automobiles, your dishwashers and other appliances, your construction."

For Rogers, it was hard to see any upside of a US-Canada trade war.

 

"Everybody's just going to wind up paying higher prices, sacrificing quality, even the American manufacturers, who are going to be presumably the beneficiaries," he said

[Cameroni]

4 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

In all honesty I fail to see the rationale in your statement.

 

Really, you fail to understand how making products of other countries much more expensive will make US products more attractive, increase sales of US made products and thereb creates US jobs and saves US jobs? While taking away money from the table of countries that have been taking advantage of the US like Canada?

 

That is odd. It seems a fairly ordinary concept to grasp. After all most countries use tariffs, have done so long before Trump and will do so long after him.

 

4 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Trump's tariffs have already attracted retaliatory measures. Most of those will/have decreased product choice via imports and created restrictions on viable supply chains for raw materials for industries to eventually  supply a local product at an inevitably increased cost. Remembering that  for  many/most essential products requires investment in establishing infrastructure as an initial stage.

 

Well, given that Canada has a budget deficit of 60 billion US Dollars with the US, who do you think will have the bigger lever in applyíng tarriffs? Three guesses. Starts with U and ends with A.

 

Sure, some products will disappear, others will become more expensive. Good! People will have to buy American made products instead. More jobs for Americans. Investment in infrastructure is required? Good! More jobs for Americans!

 

All this winning will get tiresome. Trump is right. And you, like all other posters on here, even omitted one crucial aspect of tariffs; large foreign corporations have and will continue to try to evade the tariffs by producing in the US. More jobs for Americans. More winning.  

 

The fortunes that subsidiaries of foreign companies in the US will spend on tariffs will go straight into the tax coffers of the US. It will not reduce the pot, it will increase it. Yet more winning.

 

Trump is already winning, and he is only a few weeks in. Truly impressive.

 

 

[MicroB]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

Too much time on the golf courses and not enough studying economics and common sense!!

 

I know he likes to cake on the spray tan, but was he a heavy user of tanning beds, and this is the result. But its probably a photo with the contrast etc turned right up.

 

 

 

The Omega Man for some reason comes to mind. Good film, mind.

 

[HauptmannUK]

After the shambles of the Biden presidency I must confess to being one of those that cheered when Trump won. And he did get off to a promising start. But seems that he's revealed himself to be a walking talking fruitcake. With Musk gone rogue too.  More than a few people are going to have their retirement finances trashed over the next few years.  The way he's nuzzling up to Mad Vlad is extremely worrisome - I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start substituting Canadian imports with Russian. And most concerning of all is this unstable clown has the nuclear codes!

[steven100]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

Trump is already winning, and he is only a few weeks in. Truly impressive.

dreamer dreamer,  but each to his own. 

[MicroB]

1 hour ago, HauptmannUK said:

After the shambles of the Biden presidency I must confess to being one of those that cheered when Trump won. And he did get off to a promising start. But seems that he's revealed himself to be a walking talking fruitcake. With Musk gone rogue too.  More than a few people are going to have their retirement finances trashed over the next few years.  The way he's nuzzling up to Mad Vlad is extremely worrisome - I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't start substituting Canadian imports with Russian. And most concerning of all is this unstable clown has the nuclear codes!

 

Someone on this forum suggested the US should buy aluminium from Russia as its better quality and cheaper than from Canada.

[bannork]

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Really, you fail to understand how making products of other countries much more expensive will make US products more attractive, increase sales of US made products and thereb creates US jobs and saves US jobs? While taking away money from the table of countries that have been taking advantage of the US like Canada?

 

That is odd. It seems a fairly ordinary concept to grasp. After all most countries use tariffs, have done so long before Trump and will do so long after him.

 

 

Well, given that Canada has a budget deficit of 60 billion US Dollars with the US, who do you think will have the bigger lever in applyíng tarriffs? Three guesses. Starts with U and ends with A.

 

Sure, some products will disappear, others will become more expensive. Good! People will have to buy American made products instead. More jobs for Americans. Investment in infrastructure is required? Good! More jobs for Americans!

 

All this winning will get tiresome. Trump is right. And you, like all other posters on here, even omitted one crucial aspect of tariffs; large foreign corporations have and will continue to try to evade the tariffs by producing in the US. More jobs for Americans. More winning.  

 

The fortunes that subsidiaries of foreign companies in the US will spend on tariffs will go straight into the tax coffers of the US. It will not reduce the pot, it will increase it. Yet more winning.

 

Trump is already winning, and he is only a few weeks in. Truly impressive.

 

 

It's competition from around the world that pushes down prices.  If the US was self sufficient internally, there would be little incentive for US companies to lower prices.

In Trump's first tenure he imposed a 25% tariff on steel imports but since then steel productivity in the US, output per hour, has really dropped because protected industries have little reason to innovate, not being challenged from outside. In addition there's less international collaboration on new technologies as there's no lengthy supply chain. 

Tariffs in a globalised economy lead to higher prices and less productivity.

[jas007]

17 hours ago, Dan O said:

I would agree. 1 of the issues with people that have wealth or access to it is they were never part of the normal lifestyle, life problems or difficulties. When you skate through life as he and many others have, they have no perspective of what normal people deal with so their view of reality and how to "improve" it is not accurate. He's living in the belief of America as a world power in the 1970's. He's a talking head without clear direction other than what a group behind the scenes have feed him. You see him already starting to flip flop on issues..

Not accurate? Or simply not distorted?

 

I'm not a billionaire, but never once in my life have I ever, for even one second, experienced a reality in which I had to face the world truly alone and without a safety net. To be sure, I'be been in situations where I was  totally broke,as when I was a starving law student, but that was my own doing, and I could have ended that situation at a moment's notice.  So in that regard, I can see clearly. I can see things the way Musk and others see it.  Anyway, those people have no evil intent, as far as I can tell.  I'm sure it must seem as if they do to many people, though.  They're burning Tesla's. They're firebombing Tesla dealerships. As if that will hurt Musk in the long run.  A real opportunity for investors, though.  

[ExpatOilWorker]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

It would appear at this point that Trump's seesaw approach to tariffs is having a dire effect on the US economy, thousands of jobs are being lost every day, the stock market is crashing (and believe me that crash has only just begun) and many countries are re-thinking their relationships with the US, realizing that the US is not the dependable ally they thought it was.

 

Many are avoiding visits to the US which could decimate American tourism, and many nations are likely planning their manufacturing in such a way that they are considerably less dependent on American imports, exports, and sales.

 

A wave of frustration over prolonged inflation helped power Trump to victory in November, and a majority of respondents -- 58% -- said inflation would be a major factor in deciding their vote in future elections. But just 32% approved of the job Trump was doing on inflation. Views of the economy by households deteriorated this month to the lowest level in over a year, according to a widely followed survey by the University of Michigan.

 

So where does that leave America (and Trump) in the grand scheme of things, and how badly could Trump's policies come back and bite him on his enormous butt? 

 

In the minds of many of us Trump is grossly overestimating the importance of the US and the dependence of other nations on the US. Granted the US economy is still huge, but it's not immune to damage, it's not immune to punishment by other nations, it could start shrinking, and it's not immune to crashing. 

 

Of course this could all just be some insane scheme to crash the US economy and the world economy with it, thereby making Trump and his super rich buddies even richer in the process. Who knows what lurks in the mind of this completely unhinged man? One thing is for certain, he's being very poorly advised by highly inexperienced and incompetent people, and he is going to lose a very significant percent of his support base if he continues with these insane policies. 

 

 

King 👑 Trunk fails where no man has failed before. He even managed to run a casino into the ground. 

 

 

[0ffshore360]

6 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Really, you fail to understand how making products of other countries much more expensive will make US products more attractive, increase sales of US made products and thereb creates US jobs and saves US jobs? While taking away money from the table of countries that have been taking advantage of the US like Canada?

 

That is odd. It seems a fairly ordinary concept to grasp. After all most countries use tariffs, have done so long before Trump and will do so long after him.

 

 

Well, given that Canada has a budget deficit of 60 billion US Dollars with the US, who do you think will have the bigger lever in applyíng tarriffs? Three guesses. Starts with U and ends with A.

 

Sure, some products will disappear, others will become more expensive. Good! People will have to buy American made products instead. More jobs for Americans. Investment in infrastructure is required? Good! More jobs for Americans!

 

All this winning will get tiresome. Trump is right. And you, like all other posters on here, even omitted one crucial aspect of tariffs; large foreign corporations have and will continue to try to evade the tariffs by producing in the US. More jobs for Americans. More winning.  

 

The fortunes that subsidiaries of foreign companies in the US will spend on tariffs will go straight into the tax coffers of the US. It will not reduce the pot, it will increase it. Yet more winning.

 

Trump is already winning, and he is only a few weeks in. Truly impressive.

 

 

1920's philosophy . Foreign investors will and are already viewing the US as a pariah and selling off US Bonds in bulk.

Canada has already negotiated increased trade with other partners.

Trump has over estimated the remaining significant influence the US has in an interconnected world.

But good luck with your dedication to Trump.

[Yagoda]

Tarrifs work, Canada just caved again.

[Yagoda]

3 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

He even managed to run a casino into the ground. 

And how did he do that? 

[gejohesch]

12 hours ago, 0ffshore360 said:

In all honesty I fail to see the rationale in your statement.

Trump's tariffs have already attracted retaliatory measures. Most of those will/have decreased product choice via imports and created restrictions on viable supply chains for raw materials for industries to eventually  supply a local product at an inevitably increased cost. Remembering that  for  many/most essential products requires investment in establishing infrastructure as an initial stage.

Tariff money will be extracted from the internal economy and so will decrease the volume of cash in the taxable  public domain.

The conductors of the project will introduce a reversal of money printing and reduce real cash volumes as a strategy to force digital financial compliance and consequently federal "kontrol" in a myriad of ways.

In the short term it is only the already very wealthy who will be in a position to scoop up any surviving viable company  stocks and shares in a depression.

Military drone factories could be a short term winner ?

 

 

"Tariff money will be extracted from the internal economy and so will decrease the volume of cash in the taxable  public domain."

Exactly. Everyone with 1 gram of working brain cells knows it! So it is effectively a tax on importers and on local consumers. Sure, a lot of money will flow into some coffers at a "higher" level. The question then is : what are those coffers, who manages them and what do they do with the money? But the fact remains that at a "lower" level ie "the man in the street", there will be less money to spend on daily necessities.

[0ffshore360]

35 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Tarrifs work, Canada just caved again.

Kindly detail the claim.

[Yagoda]

5 minutes ago, 0ffshore360 said:

Kindly detail the claim.

Guess you dont read even the news in your bubble.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm2y811g1dgo

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/11/business/tariffs-canada-trump/index.html

 

How about you, sport? Got a claim to detail?