Nightmare in Kursk: Ukrainian Troops Recount Devastating Retreat

[Cameroni]

20 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

  What about those imprisoned for a post on social media? What about total government control over the population? It seems like factors like these aren’t considered in your evaluation of quality of life. I wonder why. Could it be because you’ve never lived under such oppressive conditions?

 

Actually everyone lives under those conditions. In Germany a man was recently arrested and imprisoned for publishing a social media post. Also look up Horst Mahler.

 

In the UK a man can be imprisoned for looking at a woman suggestively, if she considers it threatening.

 

In the US a man with a green card was just arrested and deported for his views.

 

This is just normal life, Hellfire, all governments control their population. You thought otherwise? My, my, my, what a sweet naive soul you are.

 

 

[Cameroni]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If life in Russia is so great, why are alcoholism and crime spiking since the invasion?

 

https://jamestown.org/program/russia-faces-spike-in-crime-and-alcoholism-as-war-nears-two-year-mark/#:~:text=Russia's war against Ukraine has,and mirroring Soviet-era trends.&text=The spike in alcoholism correlates,2023%2C the highest since 2011.

 

You obviously have never had a steak and onion pie from Bertoldo's Bakery in Griffith.

 

Good God, I am not saying life in Russia is great. The people are obnoxious, service is non-existant and the weather is diabolical. But let's be objective, qualiy of life is passable by most measures.

 

Alcoholism and crime were ALWAYS high in Russia, pre and post invasion. I remember going to a bar in a Russian province and there was a guard with a gun at the door. 

 

The people are obnoxious in Russia, the men I mean.

 

True, I've never actually been to Australia, what with it having no culture and being in the sphincter of the world, so I have not had a Bertoldo pie, I DO hope it is better than the <deleted>E Austrlians deliver in Tops, because the Austrlian meat pie I had from Tops was the worst experience of my life. And the Cole's Bagel was not much better.

[Hellfire]

16 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Actually everyone lives under those conditions. In Germany a man was recently arrested and imprisoned for publishing a social media post. Also look up Horst Mahler.

 

In the UK a man can be imprisoned for looking at a woman suggestively, if she considers it threatening.

 

In the US a man with a green card was just arrested and deported for his views.

 

This is just normal life, Hellfire, all governments control their population. You thought otherwise? My, my, my, what a sweet naive soul you are.

 

 

   Your responses suggest a lack of firsthand experience with true government oppression. In Russia today, people LITERALLY fear expressing their thoughts. Putin’s rule is characterized by a gradual and relentless tightening of governmental control over the populace and an inevitable restriction of personal freedoms. Comparing Russia’s current state to the political landscapes of Europe or the USA is profoundly misguided.

[Cameroni]

8 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

   Your responses suggest a lack of firsthand experience with true government oppression. In Russia today, people LITERALLY fear expressing their thoughts. Putin’s rule is characterized by a gradual and relentless tightening of governmental control over the populace and an inevitable restriction of personal freedoms. Comparing Russia’s current state to the political landscapes of Europe or the USA is profoundly misguided.

 

No, most Russians do not fear expressing their thoughts, because most Russians in fact support Putin. A small minority fears expressing their thoughts. Much like a small minority in Germany, UK, US etc fears expressing its thoughts. The MINORITY always fears expressing its thoughts. 

 

Personal freedoms are very much restricted in the UK, Germany, France, US even, I don't see your point.

 

No, you can easily compare Russia's clamp down on opposing views to Germany's clamp down on views it dislikes. Or the UK .Or US. Very similar. Same same. Btw, have you ever tried to insult the monarch in Thailand?  I thought not. 😂

[Hellfire]

17 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, most Russians do not fear expressing their thoughts, because most Russians in fact support Putin. A small minority fears expressing their thoughts.

  What do you want to say exactly? That people in modern Russia are not afraid to support Putin but afraid NOT to support him? But this is exactly what I wrote in my previous post. 
I will repeat myself: you have no idea what a true government oppression is if you compare what happens in the West today to what happens in Russia. 

   You, many residents of the modern West, have forgotten how to value the freedoms and rights for which your ancestors died. Moreover, you don’t even notice their presence in your life, just as you don’t notice the air you breathe. Hence your comparisons, which do not withstand any objective criticism, with truly cannibalistic regimes. One day, perhaps, you will realize your delusion, but I fear it will be too late.

 

[anyone]

7 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

... happy regimes. One day, perhaps, you will realize your delusion, but I fear it will be too late.

 

99.9% of the population doesn't give a damn about these highly spiritual thoughts. They live well and don't need anything else
There is enough Nutella in any store 555

[Hellfire]

Just now, anyone said:

99.9% of the population doesn't give a damn about these highly spiritual thoughts. They live well and don't need anything else 555

Of what population?

[anyone]

Just now, Hellfire said:

Of what population?

Russia, of course! Quite happy living.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, NoDisplayName said:

 

They're following the ol' playbook.

 

Lose catastrophically in Kursk.

Send buzzbombs to the capital to terrorize civilians.

Little leader dressing in military fatigues for the duration.

 

Only question remaining, has Zelensky coordinated his escape to Brazil?

Putin is 72+ and 5ft 6 in and at that age and height he look rather odd and stupid wearing military fatigues. Zelensky will be around much much longer than Putin. Putin’s end will be tragic like Saddam.

[Hellfire]

1 minute ago, anyone said:

Russia, of course! Quite happy living.

  Actually, I am of a higher opinion of Russian people than you. There cannot be a truly happy nation without most basic political freedoms. Pigs in the cage don’t need those. But not the Russian people I know of.

[Cameroni]

16 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

  What do you want to say exactly? That people in modern Russia are not afraid to support Putin but afraid NOT to support him? But this is exactly what I wrote in my previous post. 
I will repeat myself: you have no idea what a true government oppression is if you compare what happens in the West today to what happens in Russia. 

   You, many residents of the modern West, have forgotten how to value the freedoms and rights for which your ancestors died. Moreover, you don’t even notice their presence in your life, just as you don’t notice the air you breathe. Hence your comparisons, which do not withstand any objective criticism, with truly cannibalistic regimes. One day, perhaps, you will realize your delusion, but I fear it will be too late.

 

Listen, Mr Hellfire, you cannot forget what you never had. Your notion of "freedoms" is, I am sorry to tell you, just a fantasy of yours. You are no more free in Germany or Thailand or UK than you are in Russia. Just ask Horst Mahler. He was convicted to 12 years imprisonment for expressing his views in Germany.

 

Or ask  Mahmoud Khalil in the US who was just arrested for his views in the US.

 

Or ask Dominik Bullok, arrested in the UK for looking at a woman.

 

Or ask any number of Thai people arrested for publishing their views on the monarchy.

 

I would have thought it is quite clear what I am saying, that what Russia is doing is no worse than what other governments do.

 

All governments curtail personal freedoms. Your idea of total freedom is just a fantasy.

 

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, dinsdale said:

I posted a couple of weeks (maybe a few wks.) ago that the Kursk salient was on the verge of collapse. Got the obligatory laughing and confused emojis from the gutless posters who didn't have the balls to contradict me. Zelensky should never have gone in. A huge strategic blunder. What started out as capturing >1000 km² is probably now <300 km².  The salient is split in two and Russia has control of all supply routes be it captured or under line of fire/drones. All the highly trained troops and top flight weaponry sent into Kursk should have been focused on Ukraine's eastern front which continues to move west..

 

I remember and tried to check - its difficult - but the majority consensus of the reports I found agreed with your comments and I didn't laugh.

 

I actually wish that you had been wrong but you evidently were not. 

[Hellfire]

19 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

Listen, Mr Hellfire, you cannot forget what you never had. Your notion of "freedoms" is, I am sorry to tell you, just a fantasy of yours. You are no more free in Germany or Thailand or UK than you are in Russia. Just ask Horst Mahler. He was convicted to 12 years imprisonment for expressing his views in Germany.

 

Or ask  Mahmoud Khalil in the US who was just arrested for his views in the US.

 

Or ask Dominik Bullok, arrested in the UK for looking at a woman.

 

Or ask any number of Thai people arrested for publishing their views on the monarchy.

 

I would have thought it is quite clear what I am saying, that what Russia is doing is no worse than what other governments do.

 

All governments curtail personal freedoms. Your idea of total freedom is just a fantasy.

 

 

 Imagine Donald Trump being imprisoned by Joe Biden and then killed in the prison? Imagine him being shot in the back of the head by a couple of hired mexican killers 100 meters from the White house? And imagine - nothing would ever happen to him (Biden) afterwards and he continued to rule indefinitely. This is just a small example of the modern russian political life. Do you dare to compare it to what happens in Europe or USA? Seriously? 

[Dan O]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

No you haven't. All you keep saying is hindsight, inaccuracies and speculation. You haven't shown a single example by way of a direct quote. Why don't you do this? I'd love to see. As I said if I was wrong I'll put my hands up to it. Direct quotes please.

I see you are an a type personality that doesn't like to be corrected or challenged. They are your posts and as I said I pointed out the inaccuracies in my replies. You can go back and read them yourself.

 

You can not tell overall battle field plans after the fact only direction of advancement. Trump pulling support, aide, withholding armament and intel definitely had and has an affect on planning and strategies on going as does his attempts at a lop sided peace plan to appease putin. Your multi week speculation on past posts was just that, speculation regardless if it panned out or not. I never commented on your past predictions just this topic posted today so the past was just that.  

[Hamus Yaigh]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

There are some seriously sick people on this thread, that think Russia winning is a good thing.

They're called Russians. A lot of them in Thailand.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Good God, I am not saying life in Russia is great. The people are obnoxious, service is non-existant and the weather is diabolical. But let's be objective, qualiy of life is passable by most measures.

 

Alcoholism and crime were ALWAYS high in Russia, pre and post invasion. I remember going to a bar in a Russian province and there was a guard with a gun at the door. 

 

The people are obnoxious in Russia, the men I mean.

 

True, I've never actually been to Australia, what with it having no culture and being in the sphincter of the world, so I have not had a Bertoldo pie, I DO hope it is better than the <deleted>E Austrlians deliver in Tops, because the Austrlian meat pie I had from Tops was the worst experience of my life. And the Cole's Bagel was not much better.

On the statistical sample of one Australian meat pie from Tops, you have concluded Australia has no culture, and is the sphincter of the world? That's quite an  extrapolation.

 

We certainly get enough people trying to emigrate to Australia, to get away from worse lives elsewhere. The wealthy Chinese and Indians love Australia.

 

Has it occurred to you we would send our mass-produced food and wine overseas, and keep the best for ourselves?

 

 

[thongplay]

How much of this is due to Trump stopping intelligence support?

[sharot724]

on the bright side there is

 

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-drones-moscow-oil-refinery-2045758

 

Ukraine Hit Russian Refinery Supplying '50%' of Moscow's Fuel

[dinsdale]

47 minutes ago, Dan O said:

I see you are an a type personality that doesn't like to be corrected or challenged. They are your posts and as I said I pointed out the inaccuracies in my replies. You can go back and read them yourself.

 

You can not tell overall battle field plans after the fact only direction of advancement. Trump pulling support, aide, withholding armament and intel definitely had and has an affect on planning and strategies on going as does his attempts at a lop sided peace plan to appease putin. Your multi week speculation on past posts was just that, speculation regardless if it panned out or not. I never commented on your past predictions just this topic posted today so the past was just that.  

Show me where I said I know the battle field plans. I've pointed out to you over and over again that live war maps give a fairly accurate indication of what's going on in the war. Nothing at all to do with knowing actual battlefield strategy. I've never claimed to know the actual battlefield strategy of either side but you can clearly see it happening on the maps. You can see Russian troops employing pincer movements which is something they've been employing a lot and continue to as they push west.

Exactly what benefit did Putin get from a couple of days of Trump pulling support and intel. I said it had little to no influence on the war. This is the case. Kursk was well on the way to collapse before this and the Russian troops on Ukraine's eastern front didn't suddenly over run Ukrainian troops. This huge front has been slowly crumbling for Ukraine and continues to.

As for Kursk what I said was likely to happen, and this was based on what was happening, happened. It wasn't a "guess". It was based on what was happening on the ground as shown in live war maps and analytics i.e. huge amounts of territory being recaptured by Russian forces and supply lines being either completely taken or coming under direct line of sight for reconnaissance and line of fire along with coming into the range of FPV drones which are not affected by electronic warfare defence systems. The writings been on the wall for a while.

[Cameroni]

43 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

On the statistical sample of one Australian meat pie from Tops, you have concluded Australia has no culture, and is the sphincter of the world? That's quite an  extrapolation.

 

We certainly get enough people trying to emigrate to Australia, to get away from worse lives elsewhere. The wealthy Chinese and Indians love Australia.

 

Has it occurred to you we would send our mass-produced food and wine overseas, and keep the best for ourselves?

 

 

 

You must be so diabolically cunning because whenever I have the misfortune of picking up an Australian item from Tops I actually start praying for the culinary savvy of the British, which I am sure tells you how bad things have got. How can you even get a meat pie wrong? You make a crust and put meat in it. How is this hard? Cole Bagels? The worst in the world. No wonder all Australians want to move to Bali. The food is so much better.

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, Hellfire said:

 Imagine Donald Trump being imprisoned by Joe Biden and then killed in the prison? Imagine him being shot in the back of the head by a couple of hired mexican killers 100 meters from the White house? And imagine - nothing would ever happen to him (Biden) afterwards and he continued to rule indefinitely. This is just a small example of the modern russian political life. Do you dare to compare it to what happens in Europe or USA? Seriously? 

 

Navalny DID embezzle money through his company, look up the  Yves Rocher case. His body was returned to his family and an autopsy was done. No foul play was in evidence.

 

On 27 April, The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin likely did not order Navalny's death. The assessment, which US intelligence says does not absolve Putin of culpability, was shared by the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Department of State. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_funeral_of_Alexei_Navalny

[dinsdale]

3 hours ago, Cameroni said:

True, I've never actually been to Australia, what with it having no culture and being in the sphincter of the world, so I have not had a Bertoldo pie, I DO hope it is better than the <deleted>E Austrlians deliver in Tops, because the Austrlian meat pie I had from Tops was the worst experience of my life. And the Cole's Bagel was not much better.

The "Australian" meat pies on sale at Tops are from Lady Pie which I think originates in Phuket. I tried one. In Australia they'd be pushing to get a 1 out of ten and that would be being generous. Bakeries are everywhere in Aus with fantastic products. In fact food in Australia is top shelf as is the beer and the wine.

[Lacessit]

46 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You must be so diabolically cunning because whenever I have the misfortune of picking up an Australian item from Tops I actually start praying for the culinary savvy of the British, which I am sure tells you how bad things have got. How can you even get a meat pie wrong? You make a crust and put meat in it. How is this hard? Cole Bagels? The worst in the world. No wonder all Australians want to move to Bali. The food is so much better.

How many Australian items have you picked up from Tops? Be specific.

 

What makes you think Tops would be a purveyor of fine food?

 

I guess Fray Bentos is about your speed.

 

 

[NoDisplayName]

2 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

tragic like Saddam.

 

How?  Captured, then stuffed into a little hole for propaganda photos?

 

Not likely, unless the Ghost of Kiev and his Snake Island Martyrs will be storming the Kremlin, with Macron in a lace pantsuit leading the charge.

 

Most likely outcome will be Zelensky getting Gaddafied.

[NoDisplayName]

1 hour ago, sharot724 said:

on the bright side there is

 

https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-drones-moscow-oil-refinery-2045758

 

Ukraine Hit Russian Refinery Supplying '50%' of Moscow's Fuel

 

Keep up the good work!

....Kyiv's military said.

... Kyiv said

....the General Staff of Ukraine's Armed Forces said.

 

Post another couple dozen MSM articles and Ukraine will, Shirley, be winning.

 

 

Stop that nonsense at once, Zelensky, or you'll not be permitted to ethnically cleanse any more oblasts!

[Hellfire]

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

 

Navalny DID embezzle money through his company, look up the  Yves Rocher case. His body was returned to his family and an autopsy was done. No foul play was in evidence.

 

On 27 April, The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin likely did not order Navalny's death. The assessment, which US intelligence says does not absolve Putin of culpability, was shared by the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Department of State. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_and_funeral_of_Alexei_Navalny

  The European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) ruled in 2017 that the case violated the Navalny brothers’ right to a fair trial and ordered Russia to pay compensation.

 

 In Russia, a free judicial system does not exist. The authorities can imprison anyone they want, whenever they want (add that to your "quality of life" considerations above). Now, imagine imprisoning your relatively young and healthy political opponent—who also happens to be Putin’s most prominent rival, Alexei Navalny—only for him to suddenly die under mysterious circumstances. Surely, it couldn’t be Putin!

  Honestly, I find it disgusting how effortlessly you repeat the most blatant putinist propaganda—the worst kind there is.

[Cameroni]

1 hour ago, dinsdale said:

The "Australian" meat pies on sale at Tops are from Lady Pie which I think originates in Phuket. I tried one. In Australia they'd be pushing to get a 1 out of ten and that would be being generous. Bakeries are everywhere in Aus with fantastic products. In fact food in Australia is top shelf as is the beer and the wine.

 

I wish I had kept the package, but I wanted to erase all trace of that shameful experience as fast as possible. All I can remember is that the packaging looked delectable, a beautiful photo of a meat pie and thing said "made in Australia". Since I could not find the real thing, a British meat pie, I thought I'd chance it, my Australian lawyer colleagues were always meticulous and sticklers for detail, surely they'd get a meat pie right? But no, whatever that was, it was a culinary Waterloo.The worst, I got had again! As my usual bagels were not available I thought I'd get a pack of Cole's bagels. Again, nice packaging, shame about the inside. I really do hope Australians eat better than the selection of Oz food they have in Tops. 

 

52 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

How many Australian items have you picked up from Tops? Be specific.

 

What makes you think Tops would be a purveyor of fine food?

 

This one Australian pie and the Cole's Bagel. And the beef obviously, but the beef is really good so I'm keeping quiet about it.

[Cameroni]

13 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

   In Russia, a free judicial system does not exist. The authorities can imprison anyone they want, whenever they want (add that to your "quality of life" considerations above). Now, imagine imprisoning your relatively young and healthy political opponent—who also happens to be Putin’s most prominent rival, Alexei Navalny—only for him to suddenly die under mysterious circumstances. Surely, it couldn’t be Putin!

  Honestly, I find it disgusting how effortlessly you repeat the most blatant putinist propaganda—the worst kind there is.

 

Look, even the CIA and State Department looked into it and concluded that Putin did not order Navalny's death. Provide the evidence or keep silent.

[Hellfire]

5 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Look, even the CIA and State Department looked into it and concluded that Putin did not order Navalny's death. Provide the evidence or keep silent.

from your source:

 

On 27 April, The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin likely did not order Navalny's death. The assessment, which US intelligence says does not absolve Putin of culpability, was shared by the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Department of State. The Journal noted that some European agencies were skeptical of the US assessment, finding it "doubtful that harm could have come to Navalny without the president's prior awareness" in Putin's Russia.

 

 

 

[Cameroni]

Just now, Hellfire said:

from your source:

 

On 27 April, The Wall Street Journal reported that US intelligence agencies had concluded that Putin likely did not order Navalny's death. The assessment, which US intelligence says does not absolve Putin of culpability, was shared by the Central Intelligence Agency, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, and the Department of State. The Journal noted that some European agencies were skeptical of the US assessment, finding it "doubtful that harm could have come to Navalny without the president's prior awareness" in Putin's Russia.

 

 

 

So no evidence. You have nothing.

 

Okay.