Gaza Paramedics Shot ‘With Intent to Kill,’ Red Crescent Demands International Probe

[Bkk Brian]

2 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

If Israel would have agreed to a land swap and a two-state solution decades ago, something the rest of the world has been pushing for (except bought and paid for American politicians, their freeby weapons to Israel, and their thick voters), there wouldn't be any Hamas and there wouldn't be any 'terrorists'. 

 

And there wouldn't be any dead medical workers, nor Israeli hostages, nor Hezbolah missiles, nor illegal Jewish 'settlements' (moslty inhabited by American and South African nutters). And we wouldn't be talking about it either.

Your way off topic here and you better consult Hamas who does not want a two state solution and in fact wants no state whatsoever for Israel, mimicking their puppet masters Iran.

[ronnie50]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Your way off topic here and you better consult Hamas who does not want a two state solution and in fact wants no state whatsoever for Israel, mimicking their puppet masters Iran.

No they don't - so what? You think the Jewish Settlers want a two state solution? No they don't. They could have moved from America or South Africa or wherever into Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. But they didn't, did they. Israel's plan is to conquer the entire territory by stealth. The expanding settlements are given a blessing by every Israeli leadership and are blindingly obvious that Israel has no plans to share the land equally - or at all - with the Palestinians. Now with Trump's endorsement, things got even worse, carte blanche for the IDF to buldoze what's left of Gaza and then the West Bank will be next. To quote dufus's words - 'who holds the cards'? Certainly not Hamas or the Palestinian Authority.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, ronnie50 said:

No they don't - so what? You think the Jewish Settlers want a two state solution? No they don't. They could have moved from America or South Africa or wherever into Tel Aviv or Jerusalem. But they didn't, did they. Israel's plan is to conquer the entire territory by stealth. The expanding settlements are given a blessing by every Israeli leadership and are blindingly obvious that Israel has no plans to share the land equally - or at all - with the Palestinians. Now with Trump's endorsement, things got even worse, carte blanche for the IDF to buldoze what's left of Gaza and then the West Bank will be next. To quote dufus's words - 'who holds the cards'? Certainly not Hamas or the Palestinian Authority.

This is not about the Jewish settlers either......... Why not read the OP

[Jeff the Chef]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not about the Jewish settlers either......... Why not read the OP

 

Exactly right, lets keep this on topic, Israel has committed War Crimes by actively targeting Red Crescent paramedics and killing 15 emergency workers, then lying about it.

[Bkk Brian]

59 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Exactly right, lets keep this on topic, Israel has committed War Crimes by actively targeting Red Crescent paramedics and killing 15 emergency workers, then lying about it.

No the topic is not about that. Its about wanting an International Investigation into the incident. 

 

Trust you. Israel have committed war crimes have they? Shouldn't an investigation and court case prove that?

 

You've proven them guilty already. Now there's a surprise and a total head in sand to the context and previous posts in this topic.

[Evil Penevil]

 

3 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

If Israel would have agreed to a land swap and a two-state solution decades ago, something the rest of the world has been pushing for (except bought and paid for American politicians, their freeby weapons to Israel, and their thick voters), there wouldn't be any Hamas and there wouldn't be any 'terrorists'. 

 

You need to read up on your history.  The main Zionist organizations accepted a UN proposal in 1947 to partition Mandatory Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, but Arabs inside and outside Palestine rejected it, leading to armed conflict.  When the State of Israel was proclaimed in 1948, the armies of five Arab countries invaded the territory given to Israel under the partition plan.  Their goal was to crush Israel, with the territory of the former Palestinian mandate to be divided among Arab countries.  The IDF's success on the battlefield has prevented that from happening, right up through 2025.   https://www.britannica.com/event/Arab-Israeli-wars

 

It wasn't until the Oslo Accords of 1993 that the Palestinian Liberation Organization accepted the initial stages of what was intended to become a two-state solution.  A two-state solution had been for years the backbone of U.S. government efforts to achieve peace in the Middle East.  Pres. Clinton had pushed hard for a Palestinian state at the 2000 Camp David Summit.  However, Hamas and some Arab and Muslim countries strongly opposed a two-state solution and sabotaged efforts in that direction.    The constant terrorist attacks led many Israelis, including Netanyahu, to believe a two-state solution would never work.

 

To suggest that U.S. politicians have been "bought and paid for" by Jewish interests is the height of antisemitism, playing unto one of the oldest anti-Jewish tropes.

 

3 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

And there wouldn't be any dead medical workers, nor Israeli hostages, nor Hezbolah missiles, nor illegal Jewish 'settlements' (moslty inhabited by American and South African nutters). And we wouldn't be talking about it either.

 

Most Jewish settlers are Israelis born in Israel.  "Some 60,000 American Jews live in West Bank settlements, where they account for 15 percent of the settler population, according to a forthcoming book by Oxford University historian Sara Hirschhorn. " 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/world-series-ignites-old-passions-among-west-banks-american-jews/

 

The number of South Africans is insignificant in this context,  as  only "11,381 South Africans were recorded as living in Israel" in 2020.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_Jews_in_Israel

 

Neither U.S. nor South African settlers are "nutters."   American Jews return to Israel mostly for religious reasons, while South Africans feel safer there than in their home country and face less discrimination.  @ronnie50  Your antisemitism is shining through very clearly. Are you a believer in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion? https://www.britannica.com/topic/Protocols-of-the-Elders-of-Zion

 

[Mike_Hunt]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

It was not a tragedy as such but a deliberate war crime, compounded by the constant lies and denials from the IDF and the Israeli government.

 

How anyone can accept and believe anything published from Israel is beyond me.

The Palestinians would never lie. 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

No the topic is not about that. Its about wanting an International Investigation into the incident. 

 

Trust you. Israel have committed war crimes have they? Shouldn't an investigation and court case prove that?

 

You've proven them guilty already. Now there's a surprise and a total head in sand to the context and previous posts in this topic.

 

Sadly, that is exactly what this is about, Israel did their normal white wash of events of the 23rd March, proceeded to cover it all in the normal we were fighting Hamas, when in reality they were targeting Palestinian Emergency workers, I don't need to go over all the facts again, Israel have been caught out by their own stupidity and dishonesty.

 

I'm not hopeful that the Israeli's will allow an International investigation as it could open up a right can of worms, as we both know the last thing Israel wants is any western press getting into Gaza and the eyes of the World then seeing what has been happening without the usual Israeli spin.

 

As for me saying they are guilty I fail to see how anyone can get round the evidence found at the scene of the crime, Israel has been found lacking any contrition for their own mistakes, failing to do a complete search of the bodies they created, and making up a complete lie to cover the targeting of the 15 victims, which just goes to show, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

 

Incidentally I posted the original Sky news video being discussed in this post on Sunday at 04.14am: https://aseannow.com/topic/1334581-israel-hamas-war-the-widening-middle-east-conflict/page/19/#comments

 

[Bkk Brian]

3 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Sadly, that is exactly what this is about, Israel did their normal white wash of events of the 23rd March, proceeded to cover it all in the normal we were fighting Hamas, when in reality they were targeting Palestinian Emergency workers, I don't need to go over all the facts again, Israel have been caught out by their own stupidity and dishonesty.

 

I'm not hopeful that the Israeli's will allow an International investigation as it could open up a right can of worms, as we both know the last thing Israel wants is any western press getting into Gaza and the eyes of the World then seeing what has been happening without the usual Israeli spin.

 

As for me saying they are guilty I fail to see how anyone can get round the evidence found at the scene of the crime, Israel has been found lacking any contrition for their own mistakes, failing to do a complete search of the bodies they created, and making up a complete lie to cover the targeting of the 15 victims, which just goes to show, you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

 

Incidentally I posted the original Sky news video being discussed in this post on Sunday at 04.14am: https://aseannow.com/topic/1334581-israel-hamas-war-the-widening-middle-east-conflict/page/19/#comments

 

"Israel did their normal white wash of events"

 

Daily dose of distasteful pure Hamas propaganda. Israel guilty of war crimes served up by Jeff the Chef with no need for an investigation and the 6 Hamas operatives killed in the incident. Let alone the fact that Hamas are known for using ambulances to transport themselves and hostages. 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

The Palestinians would never lie. 

The video footage found on the dead body of a Paramedic gunned down by the IDF and dumped in a shallow grave isn’t lying.

 

So let’s dispense with your whataboutary.

 

 

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The video footage found on the dead body of a Paramedic gunned down by the IDF and dumped in a shallow grave isn’t lying.

 

So let’s dispense with your whataboutary.

 

 

Was he referring to the bodies? Hardly whataboutary unless you believe everything hook line and sinker before an investigation has been completed. Its not just about the soldiers on the ground who mislead the IDF spokesman on the ambulances have lights on. The IDF directed the UN to where the bodies were by the way.

[Bkk Brian]

Not just some media but plenty of the posters who lap it up.

 

Hamas has a history of using ambulances for war

Before the facts had even settled, western media outlets rendered their verdict: Israel was guilty. Guilty of deliberately targeting ambulances. Guilty of murdering humanitarian workers. Guilty because in the court of international opinion, Israel’s guilt is the default setting.

For decades, Palestinian terrorist groups have systematically turned ambulances, hospitals, schools and mosques into instruments of war. This is not a rare abuse but an entrenched tactic: a strategic manipulation of international law designed to endanger civilians and maximise propaganda victories.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-has-a-history-of-using-ambulances-for-war/

[Jeff the Chef]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Israel did their normal white wash of events"

 

Daily dose of distasteful pure Hamas propaganda. Israel guilty of war crimes served up by Jeff the Chef with no need for an investigation and the 6 Hamas operatives killed in the incident. Let alone the fact that Hamas are known for using ambulances to transport themselves and hostages. 

 

39 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Hardly whataboutary unless you believe everything hook line and sinker before an investigation has been completed. Its not just about the soldiers on the ground who mislead the IDF spokesman on the ambulances have lights on.

 

35 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Not just some media but plenty of the posters who lap it up.

 

Hamas has a history of using ambulances for war

Before the facts had even settled, western media outlets rendered their verdict: Israel was guilty. Guilty of deliberately targeting ambulances. Guilty of murdering humanitarian workers. Guilty because in the court of international opinion, Israel’s guilt is the default setting.

For decades, Palestinian terrorist groups have systematically turned ambulances, hospitals, schools and mosques into instruments of war. This is not a rare abuse but an entrenched tactic: a strategic manipulation of international law designed to endanger civilians and maximise propaganda victories.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/hamas-has-a-history-of-using-ambulances-for-war/

 

All very good points in defence of the Israeli Defence Forces but you would not have said a thing about the indiscriminate targeting and killing of Red Crescent medics if that video had not been found, true or false?

 

At a news conference in the occupied West Bank on Monday, the society's president Dr Younes al-Khatib called for an independent international investigation into the incident and for those responsible to be held accountable.

"We'll pursue this issue until the end. For us, these 15 men represent all those who were killed for the sake of saving lives, for the sake of humanity," he said.

"And justice was not brought to them. We hope this time and through these 15 men, we can bring justice."

Khatib dismissed the Israeli military's inquiry, saying the society did not "trust" it to provide all the answers about what happened due to "previous experience".

He also rejected the military's accusation that Hamas operatives were among those killed, saying it had failed "to prove even once in 50 years that the Red Crescent or its crew carry or use weapons".

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

 

 

All very good points in defence of the Israeli Defence Forces but you would not have said a thing about the indiscriminate targeting and killing of Red Crescent medics if that video had not been found, true or false?

 

At a news conference in the occupied West Bank on Monday, the society's president Dr Younes al-Khatib called for an independent international investigation into the incident and for those responsible to be held accountable.

"We'll pursue this issue until the end. For us, these 15 men represent all those who were killed for the sake of saving lives, for the sake of humanity," he said.

"And justice was not brought to them. We hope this time and through these 15 men, we can bring justice."

Khatib dismissed the Israeli military's inquiry, saying the society did not "trust" it to provide all the answers about what happened due to "previous experience".

He also rejected the military's accusation that Hamas operatives were among those killed, saying it had failed "to prove even once in 50 years that the Red Crescent or its crew carry or use weapons".

All very good points in defence of the Israeli Defence Forces but you would not have said a thing about the indiscriminate targeting and killing of Red Crescent medics if that video had not been found, true or false?

 

Yes I have, you've just not read my posts where I did and that's just deflection from your refusal to accept this topic is about the calling of an investigation to the incident with you claiming they are already guilty of war crimes and this is "normal white wash of events" in your best Hamas apologist rhetoric.

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, CharlieH said:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/GettyImages-2207177968.jpeg

 

Autopsies on 15 Palestinian paramedics and emergency responders killed by Israeli forces in Gaza reveal they were shot in the upper body with "intent to kill," according to the Palestinian Red Crescent. The organization is calling for an international investigation into what it describes as a deliberate attack on humanitarian workers.

 

The killings occurred on March 23 in Rafah, southern Gaza, during a renewed Israeli offensive. Video footage from one of the victims shows clearly marked ambulances with flashing lights and personnel wearing high-visibility vests moments before they came under fire. The footage contradicts Israel’s initial claim that the vehicles were “suspicious” and lacked proper identification.

 

International Outcry:
Germany, one of Israel’s closest allies in the EU, has called for an urgent investigation, with its foreign ministry stating that accountability is essential for maintaining the credibility of Israel’s constitutional state. The United Nations has also condemned the incident, describing it as a potential war crime after the bodies of the medics were discovered in a mass grave near the site of the attack.

 

Conflicting Accounts:
The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) initially denied targeting ambulances, claiming troops fired on vehicles believed to be carrying Hamas militants. However, following the release of video evidence, the IDF admitted its earlier account was “mistaken” but maintained that six of those killed had links to Hamas—a claim for which no evidence has been provided.

Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, Israel’s army chief, has ordered a deeper investigation into the incident after an initial review concluded that troops acted out of a “sense of threat.” The Red Crescent and other humanitarian organizations have refuted any connections between their personnel and armed groups, emphasizing that all those killed were unarmed civilians providing medical aid.

 

Demands for Justice:
Younis al-Khatib, president of the Red Crescent in the West Bank, stated that all 15 victims were deliberately targeted and called for an independent international commission to investigate. “Why did you hide the bodies?” he asked Israeli forces. “This is no longer about respecting international law—it is about enforcing accountability.”

 

A Pattern of Violence:
The attack is part of a broader trend of violence against medical workers in Gaza. In the past 18 months, hundreds of humanitarian staff have been killed by Israeli forces, including six members of World Central Kitchen and several UN employees. Human rights groups accuse Israel of fostering a culture of impunity, with few soldiers ever facing justice for such incidents.

 

Global Impact:
The killings have further strained international relations as calls for accountability grow louder. The incident underscores the ongoing challenges faced by humanitarian workers in conflict zones and raises questions about adherence to international law during military operations.

 

Based on various news sources.

08.04.2025

 

 

Thank you for posting that.

[Jeff the Chef]

43 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

All very good points in defence of the Israeli Defence Forces but you would not have said a thing about the indiscriminate targeting and killing of Red Crescent medics if that video had not been found, true or false?

 

Yes I have, you've just not read my posts where I did and that's just deflection from your refusal to accept this topic is about the calling of an investigation to the incident with you claiming they are already guilty of war crimes and this is "normal white wash of events" in your best Hamas apologist rhetoric.

 

Thing is it's not about your views on this incident or mine, my stated opinion is from one video found at the scene 14 days after the event, yes I would love to see a full independent enquiry into this whole sorry business, but how many more IDF mistakes must the Palestinians/Aid Workers/Journalists/Medical Staff suffer before the World wakes up to all these atrocities perpetrated by both sides, people are dying and to me not enough people care, especially the Israeli's and there supporters. 

Yes, what Hamas did on the 7th was an Atrocity and a War Crime, but what's happening here is just as bad in my opinion.

[Bkk Brian]

45 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Thing is it's not about your views on this incident or mine, my stated opinion is from one video found at the scene 14 days after the event, yes I would love to see a full independent enquiry into this whole sorry business, but how many more IDF mistakes must the Palestinians/Aid Workers/Journalists/Medical Staff suffer before the World wakes up to all these atrocities perpetrated by both sides, people are dying and to me not enough people care, especially the Israeli's and there supporters. 

Yes, what Hamas did on the 7th was an Atrocity and a War Crime, but what's happening here is just as bad in my opinion.

Well don't ask me about my views then...........lol and I certainly know what yours are already.

[Nick Carter icp]

4 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

people care, especially the Israeli's and there supporters. 

Yes, what Hamas did on the 7th was an Atrocity and a War Crime, but what's happening here is just as bad in my opinion.

 

   So, you think that Palestinians deliberately murdering Israelis babies en masse  and deliberately murdering innocent woman and children and taking them hostage and killing them  whilst being held hostage and Palestinians murdering 250  innocent  festival goers is in the same category as the IDF mistaking some Palestinians in an ambulance for terrorists .

  Those are both the same thing,  according to you .

You are just trying to excuse Palestinians atrocities by likening their Oct 7 attack to other lesser occurrences 

[Social Media]

A way off topic post with oversize font and a comments on moderation have been removed. 

[ronnie50]

15 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

You need to read up on your history.  The main Zionist organizations accepted a UN proposal in 1947 to partition Mandatory Palestine into a Jewish state and an Arab state, but Arabs inside and outside Palestine rejected it, 

An why wouldn't the Palestinians reject what was on offer at that time. Don't play revisionsist history games. Successive Israeli governments have made it clear they plan to eventually acquire the entire territory 'from the river to the sea' - illegal settlements are one part of their strategy - leaning on the US for support is another.

 

And I'm not antisemitic at all. I am anti-zionist though - there's a big difference, but it's a difference that has many people and special interest groups determined to blur, incraesingly so in recent years. Witness Trump's refusal to fund any University where there is even a hint of pro-Palestinian activism - through exageration of 'Israeli student's fear' - as only one example but an important one. 

[Peterphuket]

On 4/8/2025 at 10:50 AM, billd766 said:

It was not a tragedy as such but a deliberate war crime, compounded by the constant lies and denials from the IDF and the Israeli government.

 

How anyone can accept and believe anything published from Israel is beyond me.

I think you are from after World War II, but back then the Germans were not exactly friendly towards Jews now either.
Perhaps expressed a little softly by me.

[Tubulat]

1 minute ago, Peterphuket said:

I think you are from after World War II, but back then the Germans were not exactly friendly towards Jews now either.
Perhaps expressed a little softly by me.

6 million I believe....

[Nick Carter icp]

37 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

An why wouldn't the Palestinians reject what was on offer at that time. Don't play revisionsist history games. Successive Israeli governments have made it clear they plan to eventually acquire the entire territory 'from the river to the sea' - illegal settlements are one part of their strategy - leaning on the US for support is another.

 

And I'm not antisemitic at all. I am anti-zionist though - there's a big difference, but it's a difference that has many people and special interest groups determined to blur, incraesingly so in recent years. Witness Trump's refusal to fund any University where there is even a hint of pro-Palestinian activism - through exageration of 'Israeli student's fear' - as only one example but an important one. 

 

   Do you believe that Jews should have their own Country on the land along with the Palestinians having their own Country ?

  Do you believe in a two state solution ?

[Nick Carter icp]

40 minutes ago, ronnie50 said:

And I'm not antisemitic at all. I am anti-zionist though - there's a big difference, but it's a difference that has many people and special interest groups determined to blur, incraesingly so in recent years. Witness Trump's refusal to fund any University where there is even a hint of pro-Palestinian activism - through exageration of 'Israeli student's fear' - as only one example but an important one. 

 

   You have got that all wrong .

Trump with drew funding from Universities that allowed anti semitism .

The Unis allowed attacks on Jews , nothing to do with Israelis .

   It was American Jews who were being attacked by foreign (Iran backed) students 

[richard_smith237]

19 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

22 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Anyone, any military force is capable of lying to protect themselves - I think that is simple common sense to understand that.

 

Its also simple common sense to understand that Hamas are not playing by any rules, ones under which the IDF are being judged.

 

 

There certainly is no moral highground here, but I can understand why an IDF attacked an approaching ambulance. I can also believe the ambulance did contain a Hamas terrorist.

 

People are asking for verifiable proof / evidence etc..  which is impossible when they can turn around and simply say the IDF was lying.

 

There is a lot of heightened bias involved whenever viewing such events - the optics are often highly distorted, particularly by the varying media sources - they are then simplified and dumbed down in discussion forums such as this were bias takes precedence. 

 

 

Its clear in this thread that we have 'some' very anti Israeli posters and some others who are expressing an understand of why and how this may have happened.

 

I don't think anyone is Anti-Palestine, but Hamas muddy those waters incredibly so its impossible for anyone, intelligence forces, IDF, the Media or ourselves to know whether Hamas have masked themselves as Palestinians, and, as mentioned, in the 'fog of war' mistakes will be made... 

 

I'm sure the IDF operated from the perspective that its better to be wrong than dead when mere second are available for decisions to be made.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Expand  

“People are asking for verifiable proof / evidence etc..  which is impossible when they can turn around and simply say the IDF was lying.”

 

Well apart from the video footage recovered from the phone of a paramedic gunned down and dumped in a shallow grave by the IDF and the actual statements made by the IDF which are contradicted by that video evidence.

 

The statement ‘The IDF lied’ is a statement of fact.

 

Agreed...   But was there a Hamas member in the ambulance ?

 

.. there is no verifiable evidence of that - and this is also a key point.

 

IMO this is a potentially a 'heat of battle error in an urban environment'....   the IDF lied about the events afterwards telling a 'white-washed polished version'...    Of course, they have to do this...   

 

I'm quite sure every report from 'such lines' (from any military) is polished - the true dirtiness of war is not fit for the viewing of those who pass judgement from their sofa's having never faced violence on their doorstep. 

 

 

So the underlying question is perhaps:

- Did the IDF know this was nothing more than a Red Crescent Ambulance and open fired deliberately murdering innocents ????   Or

- Was this a heat of battle mistake and the IDF thought those in the Ambulance were a threat ???

- Were some of those in the ambulance an actual threat and were hiding behind human shields ?

 

So.. IDF lied...  I understand why they might do so, war is dirty....   

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff the Chef]

2 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   So, you think that Palestinians deliberately murdering Israelis babies en masse  and deliberately murdering innocent woman and children and taking them hostage and killing them  whilst being held hostage and Palestinians murdering 250  innocent  festival goers is in the same category as the IDF mistaking some Palestinians in an ambulance for terrorists .

  Those are both the same thing,  according to you .

You are just trying to excuse Palestinians atrocities by likening their Oct 7 attack to other lesser occurrences 

 

One is a War Crime, and the other is also a War Crime, I'll grant you this, one is a Terrorist atrocity and the other is by a supposedly civilised, highly moral army that is out of control.

[Nick Carter icp]

2 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

One is a War Crime, and the other is also a War Crime, I'll grant you this, one is a Terrorist atrocity and the other is by a supposedly civilised, highly moral army that is out of control.

 

   It isn't .

Taking hostages is a war crime, undeniable .

Cannot be debated , Palestinians commited war crimes .

If the IDF though that the Palestinians in the ambulance were enemy attackers , then they had every right to engage with them, making it not a war crime . Considering that Hamas have previously used ambulances for transportation , the IDF would have a legitimate claim .

   Palestinians are the only ones who have definitely committed war crimes 

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Agreed...   But was there a Hamas member in the ambulance ?

 

.. there is no verifiable evidence of that - and this is also a key point.

 

IMO this is a potentially a 'heat of battle error in an urban environment'....   the IDF lied about the events afterwards telling a 'white-washed polished version'...    Of course, they have to do this...   

 

I'm quite sure every report from 'such lines' (from any military) is polished - the true dirtiness of war is not fit for the viewing of those who pass judgement from their sofa's having never faced violence on their doorstep. 

 

 

So the underlying question is perhaps:

- Did the IDF know this was nothing more than a Red Crescent Ambulance and open fired deliberately murdering innocents ????   Or

- Was this a heat of battle mistake and the IDF thought those in the Ambulance were a threat ???

- Were some of those in the ambulance an actual threat and were hiding behind human shields ?

 

So.. IDF lied...  I understand why they might do so, war is dirty....   

 

 

 

 

 

We know the IDF did lie, we know war is dirty, we have the video footage recovered from the phone of the body of a paramedic gunned down by the IDF and dumped in a shallow grave.

 

The Ted Crescent’s calls for an international investigation are entirely reasonable. 
 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

25 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   It isn't .

Taking hostages is a war crime, undeniable .

Cannot be debated , Palestinians commited war crimes .

If the IDF though that the Palestinians in the ambulance were enemy attackers , then they had every right to engage with them, making it not a war crime . Considering that Hamas have previously used ambulances for transportation , the IDF would have a legitimate claim .

   Palestinians are the only ones who have definitely committed war crimes 

The deliberate killing of paramedics is also a war crime.

 

The only thing we can be sure about what the IDF thought wrt the gunning down of these paramedics is that they, the IDF, thought it necessary to lie about the circumstances of the slaughter of the paramedics that they, the IDF, committed.

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The deliberate killing of paramedics is also a war crime.

 

The only thing we can be sure about what the IDF thought wrt the gunning down of these paramedics is that they, the IDF, thought it necessary to lie about the circumstances of the slaughter of the paramedics that they, the IDF, committed.

 

 

   The IDF can easily claim that due to numerous previous instances of Hamas dressing up as medics and using ambulances for transport , the IDF had suspicions that these palestinians dressed up as medics in ambulances could well be Hamas .

   The IDF can say that they were targeting people whom  they thought to have been the Hamas enemy and they weren't deliberately targeting medics .

   Reasonable grounds to have suspicions that they were Hamas