Does your tenant inviting a friend to stay a few nights infringe the law ?

[thairookie]

As landlord, I'm responsible for the TM30 submission if I rent it out to the tenant for 30 days or more.

 

What if the tenant decides to accommodate a foreigner friend for a few nights ?  Is that an infringement of any provisions of the Hotel Act ?

 

[Lacessit]

I suspect if nobody says anything, no-one will care.

 

I go down to Chiang Mai every few months to stay with a friend for a few days. I've been doing it for years.

 

I very much doubt Immigration has the manpower to go around policing

TM30's.

[thairookie]

The foreigner friend does not have a local address.  He is coming straight from the airport.

 

It's my responsibility as house owner to submit TM30 for him as well, but for a few days ?  I suspect I would be in breach of the Hotel Act.

 

Of course, whether my tenant collects a fee from the foreigner friend is another issue.

[ChipButty]

Technically I would say, you as the owner of the property is responsible to take the passport details of every foreigner staying in your property, and would be liable to do the TM30, 

Let say he was in accident or got pulled by immigration and they ask him where he is staying, but he is not listed it's you who get fined, 

If he is there for less than 30 days would they still fine you? even if he is staying for free? Tricky!

[ronnie50]

The big unanswered question is whether Thai Immigration Officers can pull up at full list of where we've been stayling/living  - and find any gaps in that record - upon presenting our Passports when exiting the Kingdom. Does anyone (honestly) know whether an Immigration Officer has all those details at his/her fingertips before stamping your exit?

 

Like propbably most others, I've never been asked to show a TM30 or hotel bill by an IO upon leaving.

[Ralf001]

The tenant, as the house master should "technically" fill out a TM30 for the non Thai guest, I assume.

You the landlord does not need to do anything.

[DrJack54]

OP, what are you actually asking.

Is this some hypothetical question.

The only reason someone  needs to have a TM30 is if they plan to attend immigration for some reason. Example obtain an extension.

 

"What if the tenant decides to accommodate a foreigner friend for a few nights ?" 

Ans: do nothing. 

[Tropicalevo]

From the official immigration website

 

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, “House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national.”

 

https://www.immigration.go.th/?p=14721

[Sheryl]

If I understand correctly you have a long term renter. 

 

I fail to see how him having a friend stay over would put you in violation of the hotel act. You aren't renting to that person.

 

 

And in any event filing a TM30 is not going to trigger action under the hotel law.  Totally different government entities.

 

 

[thairookie]

I wouldn't like my tenant to bring in a foreign guest just to save on hotel fees for a few days, not even if the foreign guest pays the fees to me.

 

I'm concerned about the status of the law, and not whether I will be found out.

 

In my opinion, as owner if I have a foreign guest it's my responsibility as house owner to submit a TM30.  But why should I do so if he is not my guest but my tenant's guest ?

 

I have no issue with my tenant if he stays for 30 days or more.  I'll be fully in compliance with the Hotel Act.  But my tenant's foreign guest ?  Less than 30 days ?  No charges ?

[BKKKevin]

I thought the rule was the "House Master" is responsible for filing a TM 30... Once you rent a place you become the house master.... As to if it violates the hotel act  I would say that depends on if your "friends" are paying guest?..As a landlord I would not object to "guests" but if you are receiving payments from them that would violate the no sublet clause in my lease...

[richard_smith237]

I think this is a case of 'farang think too much'.... 

 

We regularly have overseas guests staying - I've never once considered submitting a TM30 for them.

 

They don't need it - this is something thats only needed if someone has Immigration business to take care of and has never 'recently' had a TM30 filed anywhere.

 

 

I don't even bother submitting a TM30 for myself as I'm in and out (via airport) too often to consider getting any extensions etc at Chaeng Wattana Immigration, which is the only time the TM30 etc is checked.

 

 

[Sheryl]

29 minutes ago, thairookie said:

I wouldn't like my tenant to bring in a foreign guest just to save on hotel fees for a few days, not even if the foreign guest pays the fees to me.

 

I'm concerned about the status of the law, and not whether I will be found out.

 

In my opinion, as owner if I have a foreign guest it's my responsibility as house owner to submit a TM30.  But why should I do so if he is not my guest but my tenant's guest ?

 

I have no issue with my tenant if he stays for 30 days or more.  I'll be fully in compliance with the Hotel Act.  But my tenant's foreign guest ?  Less than 30 days ?  No charges ?

Thrre is a big difference between hosting a friend and renting out a room/bed.

 

If you believe your tenant is doing this as a financial  transaction then yes, against the Hotel act. But if they are just having a friend stay for a few nights, rent free, it is not and trying to forbid this would be extreme IMO. 

 

  I certainly would not want to rent ftom someone who did not allow me to have friends/family occasionally stay overnight, it is a normal part of life.  But neither would I,  as a Landlord, tolerate a tenant renting out rooms/beds.

 

TM30 is a separate matter. 

[ChipButty]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Thrre is a big difference between hosting a friend and renting out a room/bed.

 

If you believe your tenant is doing this as a financial  transaction then yes, against the Hotel act. But if they are just having a friend stay for a few nights, rent free, it is not and trying to forbid this would be extreme IMO. 

 

  I certainly would not want to rent ftom someone who did not allow me to have friends/family occasionally stay overnight, it is a normal part of life.  But neither would I,  as a Landlord, tolerate a tenant renting out rooms/beds.

 

TM30 is a separate matter. 

Down here in Phuket you get them dodgy Russians renting villas and then sub letting the rooms, 

[Presnock]

4 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

The big unanswered question is whether Thai Immigration Officers can pull up at full list of where we've been stayling/living  - and find any gaps in that record - upon presenting our Passports when exiting the Kingdom. Does anyone (honestly) know whether an Immigration Officer has all those details at his/her fingertips before stamping your exit?

 

Like propbably most others, I've never been asked to show a TM30 or hotel bill by an IO upon leaving.

likewise, during our family travels, wifie checks in and I am never asked for my p/p nor have I had a TM30 submitted for me.  Now we are in BKK temporarily (2 years) so had the landlord submit a TM30 which I then keep a copy with me for immigration at the BOI, they were surprised when I did my 1st year report of abode and had the copy with me though they just looked at it, and returned it, thanking me.

[thairookie]

21 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Thrre is a big difference between hosting a friend and renting out a room/bed.

 

If you believe your tenant is doing this as a financial  transaction then yes, against the Hotel act. But if they are just having a friend stay for a few nights, rent free, it is not and trying to forbid this would be extreme IMO. 

 

  I certainly would not want to rent ftom someone who did not allow me to have friends/family occasionally stay overnight, it is a normal part of life.  But neither would I,  as a Landlord, tolerate a tenant renting out rooms/beds.

 

TM30 is a separate matter. 

So if the tenant's friend stays in my room for a few nights, who is going to submit a TM30 ?

 

If Immigration Officer comes knocking the door and realizes that the friend is only here for a few days, will the Immigration Officer believe I'm not getting paid ?  I'm the house owner, and the tenant has no responsibility with respect to the Hotel Act since he does not own the apartment.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, thairookie said:

 

If Immigration Officer comes knocking the door and realizes that the friend is only here for a few days, will the Immigration Officer believe I'm not getting paid ?  I'm the house owner, and the tenant has no responsibility with respect to the Hotel Act since he does not own the apartment

I don't follow your thread. 

How many times previously has "...immigration officer comes knocking at the door.... " 

 

By way of example... My partner has few rentals. 

One eg is a farang teacher. He has various family members on holiday stay with him. 

Same tenant recently had his gf staying there. She needed a TM30 regarding immigration so my partner did one. 

In the other example of friends visiting him as tourists and had no need to attend immigration to obtain example an extension, my partner (the owner) did  nothing. 

If you are so concerned then do a TM30 for the tenants guest. 

 

 

[Packer]

Err on the side of caution. Have all the forms primed and ready to go with your tenant notified of such.

 

This is exactly the sort of possible criminal action that the fleets of new BMWs were purchased for. 

[Packer]

1 minute ago, DrJack54 said:

How many times previously has "...immigration officer comes knocking at the door.... " 

 

There have been numerous cases of gangs of immigration officers going around to condos and the such fining people for TM30 violations over the years. Chiang Mai has had it 3 or 4 times over the last decade.

 

Like the music license in bar scam, nothing happens for 3 or 4 years, then bam, there are gangs of them out with the law book fining people on the spot for a week or two. 

[DrJack54]

20 minutes ago, Packer said:

This is exactly the sort of possible criminal action that the fleets of new BMWs were purchased for

Seems as though you actually believe that. 

[madone]

23 hours ago, thairookie said:

I wouldn't like my tenant to bring in a foreign guest just to save on hotel fees for a few days, not even if the foreign guest pays the fees to me.

For the love of god, what business is it of yours?

[Sheryl]

2 hours ago, thairookie said:

So if the tenant's friend stays in my room for a few nights, who is going to submit a TM30 ?

 

If Immigration Officer comes knocking the door and realizes that the friend is only here for a few days, will the Immigration Officer believe I'm not getting paid ?  I'm the house owner, and the tenant has no responsibility with respect to the Hotel Act since he does not own the apartment.

 

1. Immigration is highly, highly  unlikely to  "come knocking at the door".

 

2. In the extremely unlkely event they do, it would not be in relation to thd Hotel Act  but rather looking for overstays and (unlikely but possible) TM 30s.  Hotel licensing law is not Immigration's  responsibility to enforce.

 

  Investigations of short term rentals  are usually triggrred by neighbor complaints and usually in context where there have bern a series of such rentals over time.  Emphasis on the word rental. 

 

3. Either you or your tenant could submit a TM30 for the guest.  Can be done in minutes, online. (Need to create an account first, if you haven't already).

 

Again, TM30 the Hotel Act have nothing to do with each other.  If there was violation of the hotel act (i.e. the unit being commercially rented out in absence of hotel license) , filing a TM30 would not change that fact.