So Long And Thanks For All The Fish - Ukraine bombs Russian Nuclear Bombers

[dinsdale]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

My CNN battle map is dated February, 2023.  So I'm just claiming "over 2 years".

 

 

Things look a little different now. The second map is Sumy. I'd take most of the grey zone here which denotes "in dispute" as red denoting "Russian controlled". This is IMO the beginning of the buffer zone Putin is talking about and will expand. The blue zone in the second map is what's left of the territory held in Kursk by the Ukrainian's. As I stated before this is now only around 5 km² with the Russians now occupying somewhere between 106-170 km2. DeepState maps are always a bit slow to update. 

https://deepstatemap.live/en#11/51.1211959/35.0587463

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Of course it is and to do this when a negotiated settlement is on the table this seems senseless. The ground war cannot be won by Ukraine, This attack although strategically successful doesn't do anything by way of bringing this war to an end. If anything this attack may only achieve the opposite. Russia's retaliation might be massive. 

There is no settlement on the table. I don't believe even you believe that.

[ChicagoExpat]

8 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Its Russias problem, not ours.

Your hatred for it goes far beyond it simply being "another country's problem."

[impulse]

Just now, Jingthing said:

There is no settlement on the table. I don't believe even you believe that.

 

Sure there is.  You just don't like it.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Sure there is.  You just don't like it.

 

Surrender isn't a settlement. 

[Yagoda]

1 minute ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Your hatred for it goes far beyond it simply being "another country's problem."

You can find nothing I have ever said that shows I "hate" Ukraine.

 

 

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Things look a little different now. The second map is Sumy. I'd take most of the grey zone here which denotes "in dispute" as red denoting "Russian controlled". This is IMO the beginning of the buffer zone Putin is talking about and will expand. The blue zone in the second map is what's left of the territory held in Kursk by the Ukrainian's. As I stated before this is now only around 5 km² with the Russians now occupying somewhere between 106-170 km2. DeepState maps are always a bit slow to update. 

https://deepstatemap.live/en#11/51.1211959/35.0587463

 

I know the borders have vacillated, but the big picture hasn't really changed in over 2 years.  

 

[Yagoda]

Just now, Jingthing said:

Surrender isn't a settlement. 

Sure it is, just not one you like.

[ChicagoExpat]

22 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Really? Want to debate the fact that Ukraine isnt a real country? Start a topic then. Make sure you study up.

Russia itself recognized Ukraine as a real country.  Literally the entire world does.  What a strange thing to take your stand on, Yagoda.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Surrender isn't a settlement. 

 

So just keep feeding Ukrainian (and Russian) kids into the meat grinder, eh?

 

How many more before have to die or emigrate before Ukraine ceases to exist as a viable nation?

 

 

[connda]

41 minutes ago, jvs said:

Maybe if putin had not invaded the Ukraine this would not have happened.?

Maybe if the NATO hadn't aggressively pushed right up against Russia's border and then armed Ukraine to act as the battering ram to "Bleed Russian," this would not have happened.?"  The Istanbul Accords were agreed to and initialed in March/April 2022.  Bojo was sent to Ukraine to tell Zelensky to "Fight to the last Ukrainian," and the real war was on.  NATO felt they could destroy Russia strategically using Ukraine.  Still do.  So this war only ends when one side unconditionally surrenders.  Today's talks aren't going to resolve anything after last nights bombing of the Russia nuclear triad. 
Realistically, what makes you collective Einsteins believe that every group with a beef will not now engage in similar tactical strikes using drones hidden in container trucks and targeting US, EU, and UK targets?  Again - open Pandora's box, find out!. Hell, the Mexican cartels could pull off an operation like this.  So now it's not even limited to state actors.  How is that addressed?  Declare martial law in the US, suspend the Constitution, round up dissidents, grind the US economy to a halt.  

[dinsdale]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

There is no settlement on the table. I don't believe even you believe that.

Talks are ongoing. This attack will not help. Putin will 100% retaliate. The size of this retaliation is not going to be small. As I have posted previously I would not be surprised if some Oreshniks will be heading toward Ukraine. Add to this a massive drone and missile strike. Poking the bear is not what anyone with any sense wants to see and this is exactly what this drone strike from Zelensky has done. De-escalation not tit for tat escalation which is now immanent.

[Yagoda]

4 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Russia itself recognized Ukraine as a real country. 

Source?

 

4 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Literally the entire world does

So?

 

Tell me about the history of Zaporizhzhia, and you better read the sources that Wikpedia cites when you reguritate it.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, connda said:

Maybe if the NATO hadn't aggressively pushed right up against Russia's border and then armed Ukraine to act as the battering ram to "Bleed Russian," this would not have happened.?"  The Istanbul Accords were agreed to and initialed in March/April 2022.  Bojo was sent to Ukraine to tell Zelensky to "Fight to the last Ukrainian," and the real war was on.  NATO felt they could destroy Russia strategically using Ukraine.  Still do.  So this war only ends when one side unconditionally surrenders.  Today's talks aren't going to resolve anything after last nights bombing of the Russia nuclear triad. 
Realistically, what makes you collective Einsteins believe that every group with a beef will not now engage in similar tactical strikes using drones hidden in container trucks and targeting US, EU, and UK targets.  Again - open Pandora's box, find out!. 

 

It's tough to have a meaningful dialog with anyone who thinks this all started in October 2022.  Or even 2014 in Crimea.  It's been decades in the works by the warmongers.

 

[ChicagoExpat]

7 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

You can find nothing I have ever said that shows I "hate" Ukraine.

From a comment above it sounds like you support Israel in some way (I do too).  If someone called Israel a "stain", a fake country, and openly cheered on Hamas/Iran/Hezbollah, would it be fair to say that person was a "Jew hater"?  I would say so, and I bet you do too.

[ChicagoExpat]

4 minutes ago, dinsdale said:

Talks are ongoing. This attack will not help. Putin will 100% retaliate. The size of this retaliation is not going to be small. As I have posted previously I would not be surprised if some Oreshniks will be heading toward Ukraine. Add to this a massive drone and missile strike. Poking the bear is not what anyone with any sense wants to see and this is exactly what this drone strike from Zelensky has done. De-escalation not tit for tat escalation which is now immanent.

Oh no!  POKING THE BEAR!  🤣

Kindergartens, playgrounds, hospitals, and apartment buildings will pay the price, it's true.  I just love the Russian mindset -- we can do ANYTHING WE WANT TO YOU... but if you fight back IT'S ESCALATION

[ChicagoExpat]

4 minutes ago, impulse said:

It's been decades in the works by the warmongers.

Putin has been in power for over twenty years, so "decades in the works" is accurate.

[connda]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

It's tough to have a meaningful dialog with anyone who thinks this all started in October 2022.  Or even 2014 in Crimea.  It's been decades in the works by the warmongers.

 

Just like it's tough to have a meaningful dialog with anyone who thinks that Palestinian issue started on October 7, 2023.  Really - if you want to create a narrative, then distort facts and reality. 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

History's full of stories where the side that's already lost a war pulls out a desperate Hail Mary. 

 

Like the V2, kamikazes, human wave attacks and FPV drones over Russia.  All they did was stiffen resolve and cause millions more unnecessary deaths.

 

History is full of people willing to appease an aggressor.

 

It never ends well.

 

 

[ChicagoExpat]

5 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Source?

 

So?

 

Tell me about the history of Zaporizhzhia, and you better read the sources that Wikpedia cites when you reguritate it.

This is a really stupid line of argument, Yagoda.  It really makes you look dumb.

[Cameroni]

42 minutes ago, jvs said:

Russia started all this violence!

 

No, the West started it. They had promised Russia that NATO would not expand eastwards. It is all on record. Then Russia had to see that they were blatantly deceived and lied to. NATO did expand eastwards, or made its intention to do so clear.

 

When they said NATO would welcome Ukraine, this was a red line that was crossed. By the West. The West started this war.

 

In fact Russia again offered peace and Ukraine was about to sign on the dotted line, when Boris Johnson flew in, backed by Biden and Kamala, to tell Zelensky that if he signed he would get no support from the US or Britain, that instead they should just fight. 

 

The West started it.

[Yagoda]

13 minutes ago, jvs said:

Maybe if you don't know any of these things you should do some reading?

Maybe you should educate us  since you are a Ukrainian fanboy. Tell us about Galicia-Lodomeria then, The Pale, Zaporazhzhia, The history of the Ukrainian language? How does it differ from Russian and why? When did the Ukraine come into being as an independent country?

[Yagoda]

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

The West started it.

Over a historical russian province filled with ethnic "Ukrainians" notorious for their National Socialism.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, ChicagoExpat said:

Putin has been in power for over twenty years, so "decades in the works" is accurate.

  

Google "Not one inch Eastward". 

 

This didn't start under Putin, either.

 

[Cameroni]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

There is no settlement on the table. I don't believe even you believe that.

 

Actually there was. Zelensky was about to sign, when Boris Johnson flew in and told him that if Zelensky signed he would have no backing from the US or Britain. But that they should fight instead.

 

Russia gave a last chance for peace. But Biden, Kamala and Johnson made sure Zelensky could not take it.

[jas007]

2 minutes ago, connda said:

Realistically, what makes you collective Einsteins believe that every group with a beef will not now engage in similar tactical strikes using drones hidden in container trucks and targeting US, EU, and UK targets.  Again - open Pandora's box, find out!. 

They don't understand. They're brainwashed. The USA and NATO are always right, always moral, and will always win in the end. Putin is a thug and Russia is the evil boogeyman intent on re-establishing the old Soviet Union and then some. All of Europe.  

 

That's what they believe, regardless of how silly it is. No one considers the implications. And the implications are massive.

 

The art of war has now changed forever. Tanks, artillery, aircraft carriers. Obsolete, perhaps, at least in their present form. 

 

Drones and robots, all controlled by AI? It's no longer science fiction. And establishing a kill switch for AI won't be an easy matter.  That could be impossible. 

 

The development was just a matter of time, I suppose.  And the USA isn't the only nation already at work to build the best AI. Trillions are being invested.  And we all know how that works. They invest that kind of money for one reason and one reason only. For war. The military complex needs war. The Western financial system needs war.   

 

 

 

 

[ChicagoExpat]

26 minutes ago, impulse said:

  Google "Not one inch Eastward". 

 

This didn't start under Putin, either.

For sure it's part of the centuries-old Russian mentality to believe in 1) the superiority of Russian culture over all 2) the absolute right of Russia to permanently control any land it owned in the past, in perpetuity and 3) that enemies are all around it, constantly plotting.  These things alone explain Russia's constant warring on its neighbors, and it's particular hatred of Ukraine, leaving out anything more recent.

 

So, again, I agree with you.

 

Edit:  I just realized how strangely similar Russia and Islam are, in the 3 points above.

[dinsdale]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I know the borders have vacillated, but the big picture hasn't really changed in over 2 years.  

 

Been around an extra 2000km² taken by the Russians since end of Feb 2023. In a protracted war of attrition this is quite a bit

[ChicagoExpat]

1 minute ago, dinsdale said:

Been around an extra 2000km² taken by the Russians since end of Feb 2023. In a protracted war of attrition this is quite a bit

It's really not, Dinsdale.  Ukraine is 233000 square kilometers.  At this rate they'll take over Ukraine in (233K/2k)3 in 349,500 years.

[Yagoda]

29 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Oh my, 

 

I call it a day, tired of endless bickering posts without common sense, and with people with narrow views. 

 

Singular brain functions and no logical sense

Translation: Time for me to go, facts and history vis a vis rhetoric is being discussed.