Analysis Thailand in Trouble: Expats Exit as Vietnam Steals the Show

[Cult of the Sun]

How to delete extra posts? lolz

[Jim Blue]

16 hours ago, bananafish said:

 

 

And when I arrive back in Thailand, I breathe a sigh of relief, but not until I'm finished having my ass examined by the b!tch at immigration. 

 

That's a new one ! 

[MarkBR]

Amazing how many snowflake complainers are here.  No wonder Thais do not like some farang.  Back in my own country (Scotland) these are the whinging eedjits who I wish would go elsewhere.  What is their point in existing?  Why not look on the bright side of life, see the bottle as half full.   I am sure if they went back to their own countries they would have far more to complain about..

They seem to be rather sad people.  Get a life.  Carpe Deum

[leeedwards]

15 hours ago, sambum said:

 

I had a cataract removed and a replacement lens fitted privately and it cost 75,000 baht (special lens to improve far and mid distance vision). A friend of my Thai wife had a similar procedure done (standard lens) and it  cost her 6,000 baht, so don't tell me there is no double pricing!

I didn't.  I said there definitely was double pricing. 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Yes it is - but that is not the4 main problem here. If anyone wants cheap living with English speaking and reasonable services etc etc then India is the best bet.  However, India has some disadvantages - and unless you have been there, you will never know - suffice to stay I will never visit there again.   

I lived in working India for a long time and I've been there in several occasions before and after, and I love India, and so does my Thai woman. I'd go back there in a nanosecond, it's a fascinating country with a super rich culture. But it's not a destination I would choose as an expat, on any level. 

[spidermike007]

16 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I wanted to take just these two particular points because many of the others are largely subjective. That said, I broadly agree that Thailand stands out as a significantly better destination for foreigners compared to its neighbouring countries.

 

However, healthcare remains a serious concern.

 

First, there's the issue of dual pricing. At the lighter end of the scale, we see it in places like national parks - and while it's objectionable in principle, most people aren't too bothered. In the private sector, we have the freedom to take our business elsewhere. The real problem arises with state-sanctioned dual pricing in government hospitals. If we fall seriously ill, we're can be charged substantially more than a Thai citizen would be for the same treatment (i.e. long term cancer treatment and operations costing 2 Million Baht instead of 1 MB.

In my view, this is indefensible. When it comes to healthcare, there should be an option for long-term residents to pay into the system and receive equitable care. For me, this is where dual pricing becomes genuinely troubling - it's the big stuff that matters.

 

Secondly, while the quality of treatment is generally excellent, there's a troubling lack of accountability when mistakes are made - a factor that certainly helps keep costs down. Personally, I’d prefer to be in a private hospital in Bangkok over most places in the world. But the question is - at 80, will I still be able to afford the premiums? And that brings us full circle, back to the need for a system that ensures long-term, affordable care.

 

I can’t say whether neighbouring countries offer anything better in this regard, but this remains a major red flag when considering a long-term life in Thailand, especially if one hopes to grow old in comfort with the security of health care.

 

 

 

I agree with what you said about private hospitals here, but I also feel that I'd rather be in a public hospital in Bangkok than most other hospitals anywhere else in the world, unless I had a great healthcare plan which I don't. So, as someone who's self insured the top public hospitals here work for me very well. 

[spidermike007]

14 hours ago, Presnock said:

I agree with your comments on Thailand and its people.  I already spent a couple of years in VN, enjoyed some of it but after all it was war!  The beaches are nice, I like the food and I can speak and read (or used to anyway and got paid for it) Vietnamese.  I married a Thai after my American wife passed away from breast cancer, and have a daughter from each of those ladies.  My half Thai daughter doesn't plan on living in Thailand, has taught herself to be fluent in Korean and after college plans to work in Korea and not Thailand.  Her mother of course only wants to live here in Thailand and I still enjoy life with her so I plan to stay until they burn the bones.  As for the political scene, it could never get any worse than that currently in the US with DJT, as it seems to me none of the citizens there are happy anymore based on what I hear from many different areas, and different generations of Americans.  Here, they came out with a long term visa perfect for my situation and I don't have to concern myself with 90-day reports, nor taxes on my civil pension.  I love it here, have travelled throughout, enjoyed that and meeting the different people and did that over time from 1972 until I retired here in 2005.  Good luck to all on whatever is to come.

Total agreement here. I travel back to the States frequently, a minimum of twice per year and I can tell you for a fact that Americans right now are rather joyless, and lacking in humor, they don't seem to be enjoying their lives very much, they're living, working, eating, and sleeping. Not much of a life, and many of them seem bitter, disenfranchised, disappointed, highly divided, and utterly joyless, no thanks. 

[spidermike007]

15 hours ago, Shocked farang said:

The official inflation in 2024 in the US was 2.9% based on the consumer price index.

I agree but when the government lies to us, as they always do, and they use obscure commodities like magnesium ore to skew the Consumer Price Index, it has no bearing on reality. When you're actually spending time there and going into the supermarkets and buying your normal staples, that's when you have a sense of where inflation really is, and it really is truly in the neighborhood of 20% right now. 

[Harrisfan]

1 minute ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree but when the government lies to us, as they always do, and they use obscure commodities like magnesium ore to skew the Consumer Price Index, it has no bearing on reality. When you're actually spending time there and going into the supermarkets and buying your normal staples, that's when you have a sense of where inflation really is, and it really is truly in the neighborhood of 20% right now. 

20% a year is bs. Probably more like 5 or 6% which over 3 years is 20%. 

[Mike_Hunt]

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Total agreement here. I travel back to the States frequently, a minimum of twice per year and I can tell you for a fact that Americans right now are rather joyless, and lacking in humor, they don't seem to be enjoying their lives very much, they're living, working, eating, and sleeping. Not much of a life, and many of them seem bitter, disenfranchised, disappointed, highly divided, and utterly joyless, no thanks. 

You are the company you keep. 

[Mike_Hunt]

1 minute ago, Harrisfan said:

20% a year is bs. Probably more like 5 or 6% which over 3 years is 20%. 

These people make up their own reality. 

[Harrisfan]

2 minutes ago, Mike_Hunt said:

You are the company you keep. 

This is true. The French hermit smells his own farts.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Life was much better under military rule since the criminal managed to somehow install his daughter as PM life has become intolerable after 20 years of supporting the Thai economy I’m starting to get itchy feet maybe a new venture in a new country is on the horizon only time will tell !

What a load of nonsense. The soldiers responsible from the unelected coup leader Prayut down to his generals, probably had about the same low IQ as the Somchai in the street, yes Thaksin was certainly a criminal, but he was an elected PM and like his daughter and sister is University educated while Prayut only had a Military Academy education.

Prayut is a far bigger criminal than Thaksin ever was.

[ravip]

Nothing good last forever!

Imagine a huge number of foreigners settle down in Vietnam, including the grumpy old geezers now complaining in Thailand.

 

If Vietnam is good now, it will be worse than Thailand, after an invasion of foreigners!

 

Edit

If Vietnam takes the foreigners, Thailand will be better, eventually.

[actonion]

23 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Thailand is ten times better than Communist Vietnam.

Thailand has visas to suit everyone. 
Next week they will be Cambodia is going to beat Thailand.

Next month the Philippines.

 

But the reality is Thailand is the best. Always has been, always will be.

So why this story  of  low foreign numbers if u think  Thailand is the best

[MalcolmB]

2 minutes ago, actonion said:

So why this story  of  low foreign numbers if u think  Thailand is the best

The low Thai tourist numbers are ten times higher than the record Viet numbers.

[KhaoHom]

I don't like / trust Vietnamese people, but that's me. If you think you're an outsider in Thailand... Wait till you settle in Vietnam!

 

There's no denying the country is going to steal Thailand's itinerant expat population as well as all it's industry.

 

I enjoy the buzz of Bangkok, but I'd be gone if I weren't married to a Thai national. Thailand simply doesn't care about resident expats (O). Retirement visa requires 65k pm. Thats the salary of three BKK office workers - maybe four. What do we get? Nothing.

 

Now, taxes ...

 

Thailand feels stagnant, rudderless, x rates suck hugely.

[NanLaew]

23 hours ago, MalcolmB said:

Thailand is ten times better than Communist Vietnam.

Thailand has visas to suit everyone. 
Next week they will be Cambodia is going to beat Thailand.

Next month the Philippines.

 

But the reality is Thailand is the best. Always has been, always will be.

 

Absolutely correct, if only because of the following.

 

23 hours ago, henryford1958 said:

Vietnam is OK for tourists but without a retirement visa it is a non starter for expats.

 

[Shocked farang]

23 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I agree but when the government lies to us, as they always do, and they use obscure commodities like magnesium ore to skew the Consumer Price Index, it has no bearing on reality. When you're actually spending time there and going into the supermarkets and buying your normal staples, that's when you have a sense of where inflation really is, and it really is truly in the neighborhood of 20% right now. 

I understand your point, the items that really matter to you had an increase much higher than the "official" inflation rate, that after all is just an average, I have noticed myself the incredible increase in USD of many items. 

[KhaoHom]

2 minutes ago, MalcolmB said:

The low Thai tourist numbers are ten times higher than the record Viet numbers.

 

For now. As infrastructure builds out and Thailand continues to flounder...

 

It's all but lost Japanese and Chinese. I think the European and most western nations are pretty much finished with Thailand as well. Been there done that.

 

The only viable segment are the extremely budget conscious Indians and the equally skint single male travelers. The problem with the ladder is that the f2f p4p industry has entirely died.

 

 

I recall when Thailand had a mere few million per year. I built those numbers primarily on the fact that it existed and exists as the regional international hub for travel to neighboring countries.

 

Need to ask yourself what is the draw to Thailand? Is it safe? Can I get treated in a hospital and not get ripped off? If I have a legal issue with the police or be treated fairly?

[KhaoHom]

15 minutes ago, actonion said:

So why this story  of  low foreign numbers if u think  Thailand is the best

 

Thailand excels on soft living and convenience. There's probably not another country in the world that allows you to quickly grab a gh, hotel, condo. The availability of Western food is simply everywhere. All manner of conveniences are everywhere including things like massages and other services that would be considered luxury abroad.

 

The trouble is when you take these things away. Other issues are making it difficult for the people that enjoy these services to utilize them long term. Of course, safety, health, law...

 

The amount of taxes that are placed on travelers both arriving in departing are out of control.

[Presnock]

29 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Total agreement here. I travel back to the States frequently, a minimum of twice per year and I can tell you for a fact that Americans right now are rather joyless, and lacking in humor, they don't seem to be enjoying their lives very much, they're living, working, eating, and sleeping. Not much of a life, and many of them seem bitter, disenfranchised, disappointed, highly divided, and utterly joyless, no thanks. 

exactly what everyone I know that still connects with me.  Some are well off money wise but still not anywhere near happy.  Family complaining more and more as prices are going up and friends of theirs losing their jobs and all needing more money and some kind of control over their future.  None seem to think it is going to get better within the next 3+ years anyway and some of those voted for this activity.  Looking like here is going to be some BIG changes coming soon too.  Also you I am sure have seen where the BBB has a provision from both parties about taxing US remittances to foreign countries.  I have contacted my bank already in the states to provide them with whatever "proof" of my citizenship if necessary so those funds I send to myself won't be levied of any tax.  Especially from what I read, the recouping of any taxes taken out of my transfers will be "convoluted" according to the email I got about this bill even though it is aimed at foreigners sending money out of the US, it will mean even more extra work for US banks and wanting less and less to have customers living overseas.  In any case, life here is still great IMHO and have no plans to relocate.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Mike_Hunt said:

You are the company you keep. 

Can't handle the possibility that the US is on the decline, the quality of life is dropping, prices are skyrocketing, and very few people seem to be manifesting much in the way of and joy? 

[Jack1104]

For sure I'm coming from 20 years and see the difference. Not dual pricing is encouraging like in Bangkok BTS Thailand cut the tree of money 

[paul1804]

Personally I dont see duel pricing as a huge deterrent to visitors but Thailand's citizens are greedy for money and often with as little effort as possible! The Taxi mafia are definitely bad publicity, the over supply of weed shops isn't doing Thailand any favours both in attracting quality tourists and the social impact from the many that are coming for legal cheap weed, not always the ideal clientele!!!

But most Thai's still have a smile and a pleasant aura unlike many in Vietnam, I think Thailand needs to improve its lacking infrastructure expected by tourist's from lets say the more developed countries which is where the money is so in Thailands best long term interests! Better infrastructure also includes some form of planning which Thai's really are behind the times!! Planning also covers visas and the likes, too many frequent changes and too much paper work which often contains useless information that has no benefits but justifies the mindless enforcers of these procedures. Its really not that hard to formalise strategies and plans but Thais get lost and feel it works if you just keep adding stipulations!!!

[BarraMarra]

A simple question, if all the Tourists Exited Thailand what would the Thais do for Money.

[Presnock]

23 minutes ago, paul1804 said:

Personally I dont see duel pricing as a huge deterrent to visitors but Thailand's citizens are greedy for money and often with as little effort as possible! The Taxi mafia are definitely bad publicity, the over supply of weed shops isn't doing Thailand any favours both in attracting quality tourists and the social impact from the many that are coming for legal cheap weed, not always the ideal clientele!!!

But most Thai's still have a smile and a pleasant aura unlike many in Vietnam, I think Thailand needs to improve its lacking infrastructure expected by tourist's from lets say the more developed countries which is where the money is so in Thailands best long term interests! Better infrastructure also includes some form of planning which Thai's really are behind the times!! Planning also covers visas and the likes, too many frequent changes and too much paper work which often contains useless information that has no benefits but justifies the mindless enforcers of these procedures. Its really not that hard to formalise strategies and plans but Thais get lost and feel it works if you just keep adding stipulations!!!

I agree on the double pricing.  Having been here for so much time I have been many times to just about everything worth visiting and didn't really concern myself with the price as it was something to do with the family.  As for visa changes, I retired here with a "O" visa but last year when I read about the LTR and the 50% cut in price, I jumped at it.  Just a couple of little hurdles but BOI worked with me and within a couple of weeks I had the visa.  Cuts out a lot of the other crap that I used to have to put up with i.e. 90-day reports, but now even that is online so...as for tm30, that particular office at the CH immigration opens before the rest of the shop so can get in and out quickly if the need arises to do an update.  I did the 1year check-in at the BOI/Immigration and spent less than 10 minutes there and can have an agent, or wife do it or if one leaves the country during that year, just starts the 1-year before having to do it again when one re-enters the country via the fast lane.

Now, I guess we see the political situation deteriorating but have gone through quite a few of these over the years - just so there is no shooting near me.  This latest bit might put on hold that "draft decree" that they were working on about taxes.  we'll see...or not.

[unblocktheplanet]

19 hours ago, sambum said:

I would like to know where you get the 50 baht from!

 

At one of our local hospitals they were going to charge a "farang" 19,000 baht for ONE stitch in a cut finger!!!

Whoa! They saw you coming. That can't be a govt hospital. Here in Bangkok Thais & foreigners are charge a base of B200 with B50 added on top for us.

[unblocktheplanet]

20 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Anyone that argues price discrimination is not real or significant, needs their heads read. Or better still, they should read this legal court case outcome.  And that was a Government hospital - Private hospitals charge Expats way more than they charge to Thais. 

https://dancham.or.th/thai-court-rejects-dual-pricing-case-from-expat-in-hua-hin/#:~:text=According to press reports the,not mentioned by the court.

 

Why would anybody go to a private hospital if they didn't have premium insurance?!? Govt hospitals: as anywhere, always ask the price first and bargain!

[sungod]

I personally know no one who has sold up and moved to Viet Nam. 

 

If you think free speech in Thailand is an issue, try spouting off in Viet Nam. 

 

That said, I do enjoy visiting the place, just wouldnt want to live there.