Why manufacturing won't return to the U.S. - former CEO Motorola

[jimmybcool]

I believe manufacturing CAN return to the USA.  Reason I believe that is most manufacturing today is operating robotic equipment to do the tedious intricate work cheap 3rd world labor does.  Or moving in that direction. 

 

It doesn't mean that the USA will get massive numbers of manufacturing jobs but the ones they get will be higher paid to operate and maintain the equipment.  

 

China's huge advantage with it's unlimited cheap labor might be short lived.  As an example the number of people working on a car assembly line isn't what it was just 20 years ago.  Once it requires only a few technically capable staff China has problems.

 

One area USA should make a massive effort to restore home grown is in the drug industry.  There is no way the west or USA should be unable to make it's own pharmaceuticals.  

 

 

[JimHuaHin]

The only way US manufacturing will return to the USA is if the minimum wage goes down to a few dollars an hour; and even then companies will find it near impossible to recruit workers.

 

Trump is trapped in a world of his own ignorance and stupidity.

[mogandave]

2 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

The only way US manufacturing will return to the USA is if the minimum wage goes down to a few dollars an hour; and even then companies will find it near impossible to recruit workers.

 

Trump is trapped in a world of his own ignorance and stupidity.

So we don’t need all the illegal aliens, so all the more reason to deport them.

[ronnie50]

10 hours ago, Gsxrnz said:

Try to raise capital to build a billion dollar factory in Florida to make an identical factory in China redundant. The laws of risk/reward and supply and demand dictate that this can only happen over a very extended period of time, and at a very slow pace - somewhat similar to the pace at which we allowed China to but fark us.

Exactly. Also, you read the article. It's clear from some of the comments that others have not.

[ronnie50]

9 hours ago, mogandave said:

How is paying higher corporate income taxes different from charging tariffs?

It's not coprorate income tax. The tariffs on imported goods will drive up the price for the consumer. The importing US company might absorb some of it and the foreign exporters will try to find a way to reduce costs marginally, but ultimately it is the US consumer that will take the hit. That will eventually fuel inflation. This is all Economics 101. 

[mogandave]

10 hours ago, ronnie50 said:

It's not coprorate income tax. The tariffs on imported goods will drive up the price for the consumer. The importing US company might absorb some of it and the foreign exporters will try to find a way to reduce costs marginally, but ultimately it is the US consumer that will take the hit. That will eventually fuel inflation. This is all Economics 101. 

I never said it was corporate income taxes, but corporate income taxes drive up prices, and are ultimately paid by the consumer, just like tariffs. 

 

The difference, is that corporate income taxes on US companies benefit foreign manufacturers, while tariffs benefit domestic manufacturers. 

 

 

 

[mogandave]

15 hours ago, gargamon said:

Yes. Cook got out of Apple's tarrifs and the manufacturing commitment by giving the Orange Buffoon a trinket in the oval office. At least it was a shiny trinket. 

So Tim Cook is a liar, thanks. 

 

That makes sense, him being a leftist and all. He (like most leftists) cares nothing about the truth, all he cares about is money.

[ericthai]

 

On 8/10/2025 at 11:30 AM, Tug said:

Where’s the money?I’ve heard word’s only.don’t be bambozzled by his rhetoric with trump factual proof otherwise it’s just talk.

haha... you are funny... It's been 8 months and like magic you think the money would start rolling in on day one??

Where was Biden the last 4 year?,  I think we saw him on TV 2 or 3 times, investments in the USA in the last 4 years? 

 

In the USA between 2020 and 2024 significant investments have been made in various sectors totaling  $607 Billion, particularly in manufacturing and technology.

Foreign Direct Investment (FDI): The U.S. is a top destination for foreign investment, with a total of $177 billion invested in 2022, primarily in manufacturing, particularly in chemicals and pharmaceuticals. 

Post-Pandemic Growth: Business investment in the U.S. has outperformed historical patterns, with a $430 billion increase in investment this cycle compared to previous years. 

Industry Focus: Manufacturing affiliates accounted for the largest increase in U.S. direct investment abroad, with significant contributions from countries like the United Kingdom and Germany. 

 

 

In 2025, the USA is experiencing a significant surge in major investments with investments of $1.8 trillion particularly in:

 

Technology and Artificial Intelligence: Investments in AI infrastructure are reaching trillions, with projects like the $500 billion Project Stargate. 

Pharmaceuticals and Biotechnology: This sector has attracted $231.6 billion in investments, reflecting ongoing innovation and expansion. 

Manufacturing: Over $1.1 trillion in investments signal a trend towards reshoring and enhancing domestic production capabilities. 

Green Energy: The focus on clean energy is creating fertile ground for investments in solar, wind, and electric vehicle sectors, driven by government incentives. 

Overall, the investment landscape in 2025 is characterized by substantial commitments across various sectors, reflecting renewed confidence in the American economy.

 

 

Hmm, 4 years $8 billion, 8 months $1.8 trillion. 

 

[ericthai]

15 hours ago, JimHuaHin said:

The only way US manufacturing will return to the USA is if the minimum wage goes down to a few dollars an hour; and even then companies will find it near impossible to recruit workers.

 

Trump is trapped in a world of his own ignorance and stupidity.

haha..... Ever hear of automation?? Our company has been doing plant automation for 30 years and it's only getting better.

I give it another 5-8 years before the burgers at McDonalds are being done by robots.  

[Alan Zweibel]

15 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I believe manufacturing CAN return to the USA.  Reason I believe that is most manufacturing today is operating robotic equipment to do the tedious intricate work cheap 3rd world labor does.  Or moving in that direction. 

 

It doesn't mean that the USA will get massive numbers of manufacturing jobs but the ones they get will be higher paid to operate and maintain the equipment.  

 

China's huge advantage with it's unlimited cheap labor might be short lived.  As an example the number of people working on a car assembly line isn't what it was just 20 years ago.  Once it requires only a few technically capable staff China has problems.

 

One area USA should make a massive effort to restore home grown is in the drug industry.  There is no way the west or USA should be unable to make it's own pharmaceuticals.  

 

 

It's clear you haven't heard of dark factories:

What are China's 'dark factories'?
Robots work in pitch black Chinese factories to assemble global best-selling EVs...

"Dark factories" or "lights-out factories" are factories that rely so heavily on robotics and artificial intelligence systems that they hardly need any human interaction or input to function, says technology company Siemens. These factories can perform assembly tasks that were typically done by human workers prior to the advent of these advanced robotics systems.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/technology/2025/07/22/china-dark-factories-auto-industry-what-to-know/85307400007/

[gamb00ler]

22 hours ago, mogandave said:

The lower taxes I will pay as a result of the Trump tax cuts being made permanent will far exceed what little extra I might pay for Chinese cr*p. 

Every post you make reinforces your image as a dolt.  The tariffs that will impact the most are not those on the Chinese crap.  The tariffs on the raw materials or other inputs that are used by factories in US are the worst idea... ever!

[candide]

27 minutes ago, ericthai said:

 

haha... you are funny... It's been 8 months and like magic you think the money would start rolling in on day one??

Where was Biden the last 4 year?,  I think we saw him on TV 2 or 3 times, investments in the USA in the last 4 years? 

 

In the USA between 2020 and 2024 significant investments have been made in various sectors totaling  $607 Billion, particularly in manufacturing and technology.

Foreign Direct Investment (FDI): The U.S. is a top destination for foreign investment, with a total of $177 billion invested in 2022, primarily in manufacturing, particularly in chemicals and pharmaceuticals. 

Post-Pandemic Growth: Business investment in the U.S. has outperformed historical patterns, with a $430 billion increase in investment this cycle compared to previous years. 

Industry Focus: Manufacturing affiliates accounted for the largest increase in U.S. direct investment abroad, with significant contributions from countries like the United Kingdom and Germany. 

 

 

In 2025, the USA is experiencing a significant surge in major investments with investments of $1.8 trillion particularly in:

 

Technology and Artificial Intelligence: Investments in AI infrastructure are reaching trillions, with projects like the $500 billion Project Stargate. 

Pharmaceuticals and Biotechnology: This sector has attracted $231.6 billion in investments, reflecting ongoing innovation and expansion. 

Manufacturing: Over $1.1 trillion in investments signal a trend towards reshoring and enhancing domestic production capabilities. 

Green Energy: The focus on clean energy is creating fertile ground for investments in solar, wind, and electric vehicle sectors, driven by government incentives. 

Overall, the investment landscape in 2025 is characterized by substantial commitments across various sectors, reflecting renewed confidence in the American economy.

 

 

Hmm, 4 years $8 billion, 8 months $1.8 trillion. 

 

Source?

 

The way you present it is dishonest.

 

It's certainly not 1.8T invested in 2025. If that number is accurate , this is the total investment amount pledged over several years (and investments which may or may not occur)

 

Of course,only $8 b over four years under Biden is fallacious. 

[candide]

16 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I believe manufacturing CAN return to the USA.  Reason I believe that is most manufacturing today is operating robotic equipment to do the tedious intricate work cheap 3rd world labor does.  Or moving in that direction. 

 

It doesn't mean that the USA will get massive numbers of manufacturing jobs but the ones they get will be higher paid to operate and maintain the equipment.  

 

China's huge advantage with it's unlimited cheap labor might be short lived.  As an example the number of people working on a car assembly line isn't what it was just 20 years ago.  Once it requires only a few technically capable staff China has problems.

 

One area USA should make a massive effort to restore home grown is in the drug industry.  There is no way the west or USA should be unable to make it's own pharmaceuticals.  

 

 

China is also massively investing in automation (one reason being its low birthrate).

 

Actually, the main sustainable advantage of China is the mere size of its market, which allows it to reach incomparable levels of economies of scale. They've done it with solar panels and are on the same way with batteries and EVs. Even a large country such as the U.S. won't be able to match that level of economies of scale. The only hope is more economic integration between the U.S. and its (former?) allies, in particular the EU. And Trump is doing exactly the opposite, of course. 

[jimmybcool]

1 hour ago, Alan Zweibel said:

It's clear you haven't heard of dark factories:

What are China's 'dark factories'?
Robots work in pitch black Chinese factories to assemble global best-selling EVs...

"Dark factories" or "lights-out factories" are factories that rely so heavily on robotics and artificial intelligence systems that they hardly need any human interaction or input to function, says technology company Siemens. These factories can perform assembly tasks that were typically done by human workers prior to the advent of these advanced robotics systems.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/cars/technology/2025/07/22/china-dark-factories-auto-industry-what-to-know/85307400007/

 

Actually I am aware and it makes my point.  There are two reasons manufacturing is cheaper in China.

 

Cheap labor - which robotic "dark" factories eliminates.

 

No concern for environment or regulation hurdles.   China will retain an advantage on this but the USA will probably also reduce red tape.  Right now in some states it is off the charts retarded.  But other states are more reasonable and will benefit from home manufacturing.

 

In the end I can see USA making appliances, TVs/electronics, etc.  And new car factories can compete with Chinese production.

 

IMO of course.  We'll see.

 

[mogandave]

5 hours ago, gamb00ler said:

Every post you make reinforces your image as a dolt.  The tariffs that will impact the most are not those on the Chinese crap.  The tariffs on the raw materials or other inputs that are used by factories in US are the worst idea... ever!

Insults, the last resort….

 

What “materials or other inputs” are you talking about? 

 

Unless you want to build a bridge, tariffs on steel are all but insignificant. 

 

 

[mogandave]

4 hours ago, candide said:

China is also massively investing in automation (one reason being its low birthrate).

 

Actually, the main sustainable advantage of China is the mere size of its market, which allows it to reach incomparable levels of economies of scale. They've done it with solar panels and are on the same way with batteries and EVs. Even a large country such as the U.S. won't be able to match that level of economies of scale. The only hope is more economic integration between the U.S. and its (former?) allies, in particular the EU. And Trump is doing exactly the opposite, of course. 

Source?

[MicroB]

22 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

I believe manufacturing CAN return to the USA.  Reason I believe that is most manufacturing today is operating robotic equipment to do the tedious intricate work cheap 3rd world labor does.  Or moving in that direction. 

 

It doesn't mean that the USA will get massive numbers of manufacturing jobs but the ones they get will be higher paid to operate and maintain the equipment.  

 

China's huge advantage with it's unlimited cheap labor might be short lived.  As an example the number of people working on a car assembly line isn't what it was just 20 years ago.  Once it requires only a few technically capable staff China has problems.

 

One area USA should make a massive effort to restore home grown is in the drug industry.  There is no way the west or USA should be unable to make it's own pharmaceuticals.  

 

 

 

 

Why is the US the only country that can automate. Chinese car factories are largely automated to the same extent as car factories in the West.

 

 

For manufacturing, you've got it arse about face. The answer is microfactories, and toss out the obsolete Ford model. Let China invest in massive plants churning out lots of the same thing. Instead, use the 200 years of industrial heritage the West has (lots and lots of largely disused small brick factories), to make products where people live. Invest in additive manufacture, ending the very notion of finished export goods, solving unsustainable demands of shipping.

 

As for Pharma, China is now the sole supplier of 20% of APIs. 60% of APIs in the US come from China and India. 45% of KSMs are now only made in China. Strangely India, while being a major supplier of KSMs, imports 90% of its KSMs for certain drug lines. The US never had much KSM capacity in the first place; what you never had, you can't get back. 60% of what little API capacity it did have has gone, and it was never  a major player in that area.

 

China is the source of 40% of antibiotics, followed by India, Switzerland and Italy. In aggregate, about 27% of antibiotics are made in the US. US production of antibiotics is a piffling 5% of the global market.

 

 

 

When it comes for the APIs needed for antibiotics, 96% come from China.

 

It is an utter fantasy that the US can ever be self sufficient in medicines. Antibiotics of course have a much bigger application in food production. Typically, the US uses 5.4x more antibiotics per animal than the UK.

 

There must be a really good reason why so much antibiotics are pumped into American cattle. Maybe it makes American beef 5x less expensive that poor old UK. Er, no.

 

 

 

US beef producers report gross margins of about 15-25%. British beef is 12%, so the antibiotics are necessary to make those billionaires even  more money. If the US weans itself off livestock antibiotics, that probably would be welcomed by all consumers, no matter what their ideology. But profitability will be hit, probably cut in half, which will hit a lot of people in the pocket, as they try and find money for their cable tv, gym memberships, a new car every 2 years etc.

 

Of course, things could be reshored. Building a pharma plant takes 10 years. Perhaps cuts in redtape, lowering safety standards, could cut that in half, but patients have got to accept the risk of worse quality drugs than the Indians for a while. And you've still got to train a new workforce that doesn't exist, exacerbated by a sharp reduction of elimination of new H1bs. The last time a politician had a brainwave in simplifying a vital part of the supply chain, we got new variant CJD, which might still be a ticking timb bomb in the 90% of the UK population that was exposed. And Americans ought not be smug. Before then, someone thought it would be marvellous to harvest the homeless and convicts for their blood, to produce blood products. Result was a blood supply highly contaminated with retroviruses with zero screening.

 

COVID showed the reality when it comes to healthcare. Around the world, nations thought that a war footing was the answer to step up things. Get Ford, GM, Dyson, Banbcock, all the cleverness of the F1 teams would transform the industry forever. I honestly expected it. But there was one problem. Not a single doctor was going to risk their patients with some shonky bit of kit put together by a bloke the previous week who was mounting tyres on a Ford Fiesta.

[jimmybcool]

5 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

 

Why is the US the only country that can automate. Chinese car factories are largely automated to the same extent as car factories in the West.

 

 

For manufacturing, you've got it arse about face. The answer is microfactories, and toss out the obsolete Ford model. Let China invest in massive plants churning out lots of the same thing. Instead, use the 200 years of industrial heritage the West has (lots and lots of largely disused small brick factories), to make products where people live. Invest in additive manufacture, ending the very notion of finished export goods, solving unsustainable demands of shipping.

 

As for Pharma, China is now the sole supplier of 20% of APIs. 60% of APIs in the US come from China and India. 45% of KSMs are now only made in China. Strangely India, while being a major supplier of KSMs, imports 90% of its KSMs for certain drug lines. The US never had much KSM capacity in the first place; what you never had, you can't get back. 60% of what little API capacity it did have has gone, and it was never  a major player in that area.

 

China is the source of 40% of antibiotics, followed by India, Switzerland and Italy. In aggregate, about 27% of antibiotics are made in the US. US production of antibiotics is a piffling 5% of the global market.

 

 

 

When it comes for the APIs needed for antibiotics, 96% come from China.

 

It is an utter fantasy that the US can ever be self sufficient in medicines. Antibiotics of course have a much bigger application in food production. Typically, the US uses 5.4x more antibiotics per animal than the UK.

 

There must be a really good reason why so much antibiotics are pumped into American cattle. Maybe it makes American beef 5x less expensive that poor old UK. Er, no.

 

 

 

US beef producers report gross margins of about 15-25%. British beef is 12%, so the antibiotics are necessary to make those billionaires even  more money. If the US weans itself off livestock antibiotics, that probably would be welcomed by all consumers, no matter what their ideology. But profitability will be hit, probably cut in half, which will hit a lot of people in the pocket, as they try and find money for their cable tv, gym memberships, a new car every 2 years etc.

 

Of course, things could be reshored. Building a pharma plant takes 10 years. Perhaps cuts in redtape, lowering safety standards, could cut that in half, but patients have got to accept the risk of worse quality drugs than the Indians for a while. And you've still got to train a new workforce that doesn't exist, exacerbated by a sharp reduction of elimination of new H1bs. The last time a politician had a brainwave in simplifying a vital part of the supply chain, we got new variant CJD, which might still be a ticking timb bomb in the 90% of the UK population that was exposed. And Americans ought not be smug. Before then, someone thought it would be marvellous to harvest the homeless and convicts for their blood, to produce blood products. Result was a blood supply highly contaminated with retroviruses with zero screening.

 

COVID showed the reality when it comes to healthcare. Around the world, nations thought that a war footing was the answer to step up things. Get Ford, GM, Dyson, Banbcock, all the cleverness of the F1 teams would transform the industry forever. I honestly expected it. But there was one problem. Not a single doctor was going to risk their patients with some shonky bit of kit put together by a bloke the previous week who was mounting tyres on a Ford Fiesta.

 

I don't believe I ever said only the USA can automate.  You read something not there.  The USA is the largest market and manufacturing internally makes sense for some products.  Which is why I believe the USA can begin manufacturing many of the products currently bought from China or other economies with lower cost labor pools.

 

As for some of what you wrote I have no idea.  Whoever wanted to reap blood from the homeless etc that sounds like a bad scifi plot.  Yikes.

 

 

[Alan Zweibel]

8 hours ago, jimmybcool said:

 

Actually I am aware and it makes my point.  There are two reasons manufacturing is cheaper in China.

 

Cheap labor - which robotic "dark" factories eliminates.

 

No concern for environment or regulation hurdles.   China will retain an advantage on this but the USA will probably also reduce red tape.  Right now in some states it is off the charts retarded.  But other states are more reasonable and will benefit from home manufacturing.

 

In the end I can see USA making appliances, TVs/electronics, etc.  And new car factories can compete with Chinese production.

 

IMO of course.  We'll see.

 

Well, the problem is that to create these factories you need engineers. China has them in abundance The US not so much.

[ronnie50]

10 hours ago, ericthai said:

haha..... Ever hear of automation?? Our company has been doing plant automation for 30 years and it's only getting better.

I give it another 5-8 years before the burgers at McDonalds are being done by robots.  

So if automated robot/AI manufacturing builds in America instead of Asia, for example, then that's Mission Accomplished - even if it doesn't re-employ the majority American working class, is that right? Who cares about them, right? Hmm. Aren't they all the ones that voted for Trump? Isn't Make America Great Again meant to be rewarding to all Americans? Or only to the billionnaire/capitalists? 

[bamnutsak]

On 8/11/2025 at 7:41 AM, jimmybcool said:

I believe manufacturing CAN return to the USA.

 

What other fairy tales do you believe in?

 

Let's revisit Foxconn Wisconsin ca. 2017.

 

trump promised 13,000 jobs, reality: 550; costs $ 1.2 BILLION

 

 

[phetphet]

Will the US be able to undercut China on any production costs? If not, why buy American?

 

E.g. If Apple cannot produce iPhones in the US as cheaply as they can in China, what will they do? Sell more expensive phones in the US? Or increase the price worldwide?

 

exporting more expensive goods to the rest of the world won't work. Even with threats of more tariffs. Consumers will turn to China and the likes of Huawei and their new Harmony OS.

[cjinchiangrai]

On 8/11/2025 at 1:32 AM, CallumWK said:

 

Why? You can't handle the truth any more?

My prediction is that shortly after mid term elections, maybe even before, most of these MAGA members will suddenly disappear from the forum,.

As soon as Russia pulls the plug on the troll bots.

[gamb00ler]

14 hours ago, mogandave said:

Insults, the last resort….

 

What “materials or other inputs” are you talking about? 

 

Unless you want to build a bridge, tariffs on steel are all but insignificant. 

 

 

if you were actually interested, why would you ask anybody on AN?  Another feather in your dolt cap.

[cjinchiangrai]

17 minutes ago, gamb00ler said:

if you were actually interested, why would you ask anybody on AN?  Another feather in your dolt cap.

A common deflection tactic, ask for proof while ignoring the answer and reality. A childish MAGA game.

[Will B Good]

So the glass  made in Kentucky is tariffed when exported to China, which Apple has to pay.

 

The iPhones are then shipped to the US from China and the iPhones (and the glass in effect) are tariffed again, which Apple has to pay.

 

Sounds pure genius.......tariffs on iPhones shipped directly to the UK?.......zero.

[jimmybcool]

11 hours ago, Alan Zweibel said:

Well, the problem is that to create these factories you need engineers. China has them in abundance The US not so much.

 

Not sure we don't have the engineers here.  And perhaps young people will wake up and take more engineering majors instead of useless studies.

[jimmybcool]

10 hours ago, bamnutsak said:

 

What other fairy tales do you believe in?

 

Let's revisit Foxconn Wisconsin ca. 2017.

 

trump promised 13,000 jobs, reality: 550; costs $ 1.2 BILLION

 

 

 

Well I also believe one day conversations can be civil. But you crashed that.  🤨

[Negita43]

You know I think it's time we confronted this idea that countries are exploiting the USA by running trade deficits with them.

Whilst it may well be true many Asian countries (including China) do/did run trade deficits - it is/was a result of American capitalism looking for the cheapest place for production (often on the back of badly paid and not well protected by employment laws, Asian workers)

And by the way all US governments did not object to low shop prices and low inflation that stemmed from this.

Now the American consumer is going to find out the price of "made in the USA"

Can you see US workers accepting pay levels and working conditions that exist in Asia?

Can you see American Capitalism accepting lower profits from this?

MAPA is the watchword - Make America Pay Again!

And look at the Big Beautiful Bill - Tax breaks for the rich for nothing - Tax breaks for the workers - only if you do overtime!!

And if you think tariffs will offset this who is going to pay in the end not the US capitalists for sure.

[candide]

17 hours ago, mogandave said:

Source?

Good question. 🤣

 

Not particularly my source, but this article is based on the same rationale.

 

"In the case of China, the advantages that derive from a protected home market are further augmented by the size of that market. This creates opportunities for significant internal and external economies of scale. Because China is the largest market globally for many goods and services, protected domestic firms can build greater production capacity than their counterparts elsewhere."

 

https://ecfr.eu/publication/home-advantage-how-chinas-protected-market-threatens-europes-economic-power/