On 8/28/2025 at 4:36 AM, RayC said:

 

Indeed. How can one truly consider oneself a free man without the ability to own a gun without restriction.

So very true RayC. Gun's don't kill people, the mentally disabled who think they are a different gender kill people and in this case, children. 

22 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

What straw would that be? Arguing with yourself over things you dont understand and laws you are ignorant of and then declaring yourself the winner.

 

Fact: Guns in the hands of decent citizens save lives of decent citizens.

 

Therein lies the problem. It's not a question of 'winning' and 'losing', it's a question of 'good' and 'bad' legislation.

 

All the data suggests that in countries where gun ownership laws are stricter (and enforced) e.g. Australia, the UK the number of deaths and injuries from gun-related incidents are reduced compared with nations with less restrictive laws.

 

In what way, can it be possible that a higher incident of death/ injury - often of innocent bystanders - is good for society?

 

Fact: Guns kill 

4 minutes ago, Keep Right said:

So very true RayC. Gun's don't kill people, the mentally disabled who think they are a different gender kill people and in this case, children. 

 

Just to be clear: I was being sarcastic.

1 minute ago, RayC said:

 

Just to be clear: I was being sarcastic.

 

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Just to be clear: I was being sarcastic.

And to be clear, I was serious. 

4 minutes ago, RayC said:

All the data suggests that in countries where gun ownership laws are stricter (and enforced) e.g. Australia, the UK the number of deaths and injuries from gun-related incidents are reduced compared with nations with less restrictive laws.

All depends on your interpretation. You dont have a say, so carry on LOL

1 minute ago, Keep Right said:

 

And to be clear, I was serious. 

 

I was afraid that you would say that

Just now, Yagoda said:

All depends on your interpretation. You dont have a say, so carry on LOL

 

You're clutching at another straw.

 

I don't know as I haven't looked at the data but if a comparison was made between gun ownership legislation in Australia and the UK and the incidence of gun related deaths and injuries then drawing conclusions would, perhaps, be more difficult.

 

But that is, once again, deflection. We are not talking about two countries where the differences are (relatively) nuanced; we are talking about a comparison between nations with fundamentally different legislation.

 

You're right, I don't get a say in US affairs and I avoid commenting on domestic US matters. If you want to keep your existing laws that's up to you, however, what I object to is the idea that less restrictive gun ownership legislation is a good thing.

 

Btw: In a similar vein, you don't get a say in European issues. Maybe you should bear that in mind when commenting on domestic European matters.

Just now, RayC said:

We are not talking about two countries where the differences are (relatively) nuanced; we are talking about a comparison between nations with fundamentally different legislation.

 

We are talking about different countries and different socio economic milieus. Raw numbers dont account for things like a violent underclass.

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

Btw: In a similar vein, you don't get a say in European issues. Maybe you should bear that in mind when commenting on domestic European matters.

I paid for my opinion, how much of your tax money paid for their lifestyle.

1 minute ago, Yagoda said:

I paid for my opinion, how much of your tax money paid for their lifestyle.

 

More deflection.

 

I have no idea what relevance your comment has to a discussion on gun ownership but - to avoid you making a song-and-dance about nothing - for the record I've paid tax in every country in which I have worked (and in others where I have/ had assets).

6 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

We are talking about different countries and different socio economic milieus. Raw numbers dont account for things like a violent underclass.

 

Of course there are cultural and economic differences between Australia, the UK and the US but probably less than there are between many other nations. Much of our background and culture is shared, not least a shared language which helps avoid misunderstandings.

 

In any event, if true, why would the US have a more violent underclass than either Australia and/or the UK?

 

Assuming that it is true, I'd suggest that it was all the more reason to try and ensure that guns don't fall into the hands of this underclass.

Perhaps praying helps.

Dear God, 

I hope you are well. I'm fine.

Please could you help these gun lovers realise that the liberal US gun laws are causing the deaths of countless innocent victims each year.

As they seem to think Donald is the second coming, could you please make him have a revelation, a vision, on the road to his golf course perhaps.

Donald could then go on Truth Social and in block capitals, exclaim: GUNS KILL. EXECUTIVE ORDER, TURN IN YOUR GUNS TOMORROW OR FACE TEN YEARS BEHIND BARS.

Thank you Lord.

3 hours ago, RayC said:

n any event, if true, why would the US have a more violent underclass than either Australia and/or the UK?

Our policies on crime.

 

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Assuming that it is true, I'd suggest that it was all the more reason to try and ensure that guns don't fall into the hands of this underclass.

They are underclass. They will get them, or use cars, knives, gasoline, explosives.

Or make them, like they do in Japan.

I think its more important to focus on the root causes of scumbaggyness as opposed to those hunks of iron under some dudes bed,

3 hours ago, bannork said:

Perhaps praying helps.

Dear God, 

I hope you are well. I'm fine.

Please could you help these gun lovers realise that the liberal US gun laws are causing the deaths of countless innocent victims each year.

As they seem to think Donald is the second coming, could you please make him have a revelation, a vision, on the road to his golf course perhaps.

Donald could then go on Truth Social and in block capitals, exclaim: GUNS KILL. EXECUTIVE ORDER, TURN IN YOUR GUNS TOMORROW OR FACE TEN YEARS BEHIND BARS.

Thank you Lord.

I see along with the sick terrorist supporting anti-semite wisdom you spew, you like to parody Christianity

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Our policies on crime.

 

Such as? That requires elaboration. 

 

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

They are underclass. They will get them, or use cars, knives, gasoline, explosives.

Or make them, like they do in Japan.

I think its more important to focus on the root causes of scumbaggyness as opposed to those hunks of iron under some dudes bed,

 

That still doesn't explain why an American criminal underclass should be more 'scummy' than their Australian or UK counterparts.

 

I do agree that focussing on the root causes of the problem is paramount, but the firearms hidden under the beds of criminals cannot be dismissed as unimportant.

18 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

Such as? That requires elaboration. 

 

Juvenile immunity, political disrespect for police, ineffective prosecutors, the welfare state........

11 minutes ago, Yagoda said:

Juvenile immunity, political disrespect for police, ineffective prosecutors, the welfare state........

 

All of which - many would argue - are present in the UK. (I'd imagine that some would say the same of Australia?)

32 minutes ago, RayC said:

 

All of which - many would argue - are present in the UK. (I'd imagine that some would say the same of Australia?)

Neither are American. Neither are free.

1 hour ago, RayC said:

That still doesn't explain why an American criminal underclass should be more 'scummy' than their Australian or UK counterparts.

Awful single mother parents. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DM2w1OKRUSA/?igsh=MWRiN3IxYzl4ODFhNg==

5 hours ago, Yagoda said:

you like to parody Christianity

What's wrong with that?

13 hours ago, RayC said:

 

I do have ideas of my own but I can't claim that the idea that unrestricted gun ownership is detrimental to society is one of them.

 

There are numerous other posters in this thread who share that belief and have supplied evidence to support this contention.

 

So far, I've seen nothing to dissuade me from the view that we are correct.

Gun ownership is restricted everywhere in the US. To imply it is not, is just to lie. 

 

So, what are your ideas on how to change gun laws to eliminate or significantly reduce shootings? 

13 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_the_United_Kingdom#:~:text=In the United Kingdom%2C gun,separate system for Northern Ireland.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_of_Australia#:~:text=The states issue firearms licences,sport or target shooting competitions.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In the United States%2C the,v.

 

These links give a overview of gun ownership legislation in Australia, the UK and the US.

So, you do not know. 

13 hours ago, RayC said:

 

There is a rather nice phrase which sums up the difference between Australia/UK and the US. In Australia and the UK, gun ownership is a privilege, in the US it is a right.

So, in Australia and UK, if the powers that be favor you, you get a gun, and if they do not favor you, you do not get a gun. 

13 hours ago, RayC said:

 

A more practical example. Someone who does not have a criminal record, is mentally capable, but is not a hunter or a member of a gun club In Australia or the UK would almost certainly be refused a licence to own a gun; in the US such a individual would almost certainly be allowed a licence.

As they should.

13 hours ago, RayC said:

 

 

The question I posed to @Yagoda (p11 of this thread). 

 

"You don't seriously consider that article (from ammo.com) to be a credible piece of research and, in any way, offer evidence to support unrestricted gun ownership, do you?"

 

Have a go at answering it yourself.

No one has proposed unrestricted gun ownership. Please stop regurgitating that lie. 

 

I think ammo.com gun research is just as credible as planned parenthood abortion research might be.

 

A lot of people, I think you included, assume research from anti-gun sources is credible, while research from pro-gun sources is not credible. Is that correct?

 

In any event, what portion of the research do you think is incorrect? 

 

 

 

 

3 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

What's wrong with that?

Nothing if you're a leftist. Hating Christians is just part of your ideology.

7 hours ago, Yagoda said:

Neither are American. Neither are free.

 

?

 

That still doesn't explain why an American criminal underclass should be more 'scummy' than their Australian or UK counterparts.

7 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Awful single mother parents. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DM2w1OKRUSA/?igsh=MWRiN3IxYzl4ODFhNg==

 

Still doesn't explain the discrepancy (if it exists) as unfortunately, bad parents - single or otherwise - are also present in the UK and I dare say, Australia.

3 hours ago, RayC said:

 

?

 

That still doesn't explain why an American criminal underclass should be more 'scummy' than their Australian or UK counterparts.

There are more of them. There are more of us. We are richer. We glorify gangbangers, far more than as folk heroes.. We have more drugs. We arent isolated by oceans. Our educational system doesnt educate. Our moral values have deteriorated. Our major Dem run cites where gun crime in highest are highly corrupt. We have less cultural unity. We have had an open border.\ for 4 years. Socialists encourage violence as a political act.

 

The whole concept of gun control in America is authoritarian, racist and antisemitic. The most famous gun control law in the USA was enacted to disarm Jews.

 

 

11 hours ago, Mike_Hunt said:

Awful single mother parents. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DM2w1OKRUSA/?igsh=MWRiN3IxYzl4ODFhNg==

In two years, they will shoot another of their ilk during a drug deal and it will either be ignored by the press or parroted by folks here......

Who, after tossing bananas at black players and fighting rival fans outside the stadium, will jump on the Board from their council home to decry how racist and violent the USA is and how so many "children" die. 

Ask lefty a question or two and it gets quiet in here

9 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Nothing if you're a leftist. Hating Christians is just part of your ideology.

I don't hate Christians, I just don't think there is anything wrong with parodying them. Do you not support free speech?

On 9/2/2025 at 10:35 PM, BarraMarra said:

The real World do not have Semi Automatic Rifle's in there homes or go on Mass shooting sprees only the Americans. Parents in the real world don't teach there Children how to shoot guns from early childhood or buy them a firearm for there birthday, only Americans do.

The real world doesn't have semi-automatic weapons??   Are you saying the America isn't real?   LOL

10 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

I don't hate Christians, I just don't think there is anything wrong with parodying them. Do you not support free speech?

Is there anything wrong with "parodying" Muslims when they're grieving about their slain children? Because the left never seems to get around to mocking them. Nor is mocking blacks, or gays, or women, or trans people. Only whites and Christians. 

 

It's because leftists are cowards. They mock Christians and try to take guns from law abiding citizens because they can do so without fear of reprisal. The do not mock Muslims, and they do not try to take guns from criminals, because they are terrified that they might suffer the consequences of their actions. 

 

Because I oppose the left, I have to support free speech. I am not trying to stop you or anyone from mocking grieving parents. You go ahead on and bring it brother.