20 hours ago, freedomnow said:

EU live in fairyland with all this "coaliation of the willing" a core part of this conflict is no NATO in Ukraine

This is not true. 

26 minutes ago, LosLobo said:

The war didn’t start with what Putin said back then — it started with what he did in 2013.

 

No, you're quite wrong.

 

It started with NATO disclosing that they'd give NATO membership to Ukraine and Georgia at the 2008 NATO summit.

2 hours ago, Cameroni said:

 

Bit of a stupid comment when Russia is occupying large swathes of Ukraine.

But wait.

They were going to take Kiev in three days, years ago.

In the last three years they've only added 1 percent to their occupied area.

That's not exactly winning, is it?

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

But wait.

They were going to take Kiev in three days, years ago.

 

I think it was US military personnel who said that, US general Milley, to be precise.

 

Putin, never EVER said he'd take Kiev in 3 days, nor did he intend to do so.

 

And we both know Russia would win totally and completely, Jingthing, the longer this goes on. Ukraine has no chance of winning. None whatsoever.

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I think it was US military personnel who said that, US general Milley, to be precise.

 

Putin, never EVER said he'd take Kiev in 3 days, nor did he intend to do so.

 

And we both know Russia would win totally and completely, Jingthing, the longer this goes on. Ukraine has no chance of winning. None whatsoever.

Total misinformation as to be expected from above.

There are ample sources that Russia thought that they would take Kiev VERY QUICKLY and that then they could then murder or exile Zelinskyy and install a Putin government. If you deny that, you're either lying or incredibly ill informed.

 

Dude, don't tell me what I think. That is totally obnoxious. No of course I don't think that Ukraine will win in the sense of pushing Russia out of all the occupied Ukrainian land and sending them running away. I do certainly think that if the feckless moron Trump finally gets it together to pressure Russia severely enough, the money could  cut off to Putin to such a degree that he would be forced to go away from his maximalist (genocidal) goals and agree to an end the war deal that would be acceptable to Ukraine. If that means Ukraine can then survive and thrive and a shining European success story some decades down the line, then that's a decent enough version of winning.

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Total misinformation as to be expected from above.

There are ample sources that Russia thought that they would take Kiev VERY QUICKLY and that then they could then murder or exile Zelinskyy and install a Putin government. If you deny that, you're either lying or incredibly ill informed.

 

 

No, actually you are ill-informed Jingthing. It was US general Milley who said Russia could take Kiev in 3 days. Not Putin

 

"Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine"

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-within-72-hours-if-russia-decides-to-invade-ukraine-sources

 

As for Ukraine winning, it's never going to happen.

35 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

 

No, actually you are ill-informed Jingthing. It was US general Milley who said Russia could take Kiev in 3 days. Not Putin

 

"Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine"

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/gen-milley-says-kyiv-could-fall-within-72-hours-if-russia-decides-to-invade-ukraine-sources

 

As for Ukraine winning, it's never going to happen.

You're playing sleazy DISINGENOUS games again.

Both the west AND Russia thought Russia would succeed in taking Kiev very quickly. DUH! Three days, a week, whatever, but quickly. If you deny that, again, you're just LYING.

26 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're playing sleazy DISINGENOUS games again.

Both the west AND Russia thought Russia would succeed in taking Kiev very quickly. DUH! Three days, a week, whatever, but quickly. If you deny that, again, you're just LYING.

 

No, I'm just correcting the sleazy, disingenous lies you keep telling about President Putin and Russia.

 

They sure did think that, but Putin never intended to occupy Kiev.

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

No, I'm just correcting the sleazy, disingenous lies you keep telling about Presdient Putin and Russia.

 

They sure did think that, but Putin never intended to occupy Kiev.

When did I say occupy? 

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

When did I say occupy? 

 

Very disingenous, but anyway, Russia now occupies substantial parts of Ukraine, and there is no sign that Kiev could ever regain these lands.

 

Wouldn't it be better for Ukraine to just surrender and end the bloodshed? Why would they keep killing their innocent :Ukrainian, men, women and children? This war is so unnecessary.

11 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Very disingenous, but anyway, Russia now occupies substantial parts of Ukraine, and there is no sign that Kiev could ever regain these lands.

 

Wouldn't it be better for Ukraine to just surrender and end the bloodshed? Why would they keep killing their innocent :Ukrainian, men, women and children? This war is so unnecessary.

No.

The terms of the surrender offer from Putin / Witcoff are SUICIDE for Ukraine.

Anyone with basic common sense gets that.

Putin's goals remain MAXIMALIST.

The ONLY way to reduce those goals is to FORCE him.

It's hilarious to me that people are trying to sell the idea that Putin is someone you can have fair negotiations with.

He's not Canadian. He's the war criminal terrorist genocidal dictator of Russia.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

No.

The terms of the surrender offer from Putin / Witcoff are SUICIDE for Ukraine.

Anyone with basic common sense gets that.

Putin's goals remain MAXIMALIST.

The ONLY way to reduce those goals is to FORCE him.

It's hilarious to me that people are trying to sell the idea that Putin is someone you can have fair negotiations with.

He's not Canadian. He's the war criminal terrorist genocidal dictator of Russia.

 

My God that's so histrionic.

 

It's hardly suicide, it's just giving up the Donbass, which Ukraine let rot in the first place anyway. The people there hate Zelensky.

 

In no way are Putin's goals maximalist, he's being very reasonable and modest.

 

And I would hardly see ice-hockey hooligans as the paragon of fairness, they're more likely to beat your face to a pulp than Putin.

 

If Putin is a war criminal, show his orders to commit war crimes. Show his plan to defeat Kiev in 3 days. But you never provide any proof for your histrionic accusations. Nothing. Genocidal? You've got to be joking. I don't see you pursuing Israel the way you're fixated on Putin, and Israel is committing real genocide. I think we both know the real reason you dislike Putin so much, don't we, Jingthing?

17 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

My God that's so histrionic.

 

It's hardly suicide, it's just giving up the Donbass, which Ukraine let rot in the first place anyway. The people there hate Zelensky.

 

In no way are Putin's goals maximalist, he's being very reasonable and modest.

 

And I would hardly see ice-hockey hooligans as the paragon of fairness, they're more likely to beat your face to a pulp than Putin.

 

If Putin is a war criminal, show his orders to commit war crimes. Show his plan to defeat Kiev in 3 days. But you never provide any proof for your histrionic accusations. Nothing. Genocidal? You've got to be joking. I don't see you pursuing Israel the way you're fixated on Putin, and Israel is committing real genocide. I think we both know the real reason you dislike Putin so much, don't we, Jingthing?

A crock of lies.

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Total misinformation as to be expected from above.

There are ample sources that Russia thought that they would take Kiev VERY QUICKLY and that then they could then murder or exile Zelinskyy and install a Putin government. If you deny that, you're either lying or incredibly ill informed.

 

Dude, don't tell me what I think. That is totally obnoxious. No of course I don't think that Ukraine will win in the sense of pushing Russia out of all the occupied Ukrainian land and sending them running away. I do certainly think that if the feckless moron Trump finally gets it together to pressure Russia severely enough, the money could  cut off to Putin to such a degree that he would be forced to go away from his maximalist (genocidal) goals and agree to an end the war deal that would be acceptable to Ukraine. If that means Ukraine can then survive and thrive and a shining European success story some decades down the line, then that's a decent enough version of winning.

So it's Trump that needs to end this war? Not Putin and Zelensky but Trump. You do understand this is not America's war?

You want Trump to get things together and push Putin? What about the EU? tell them to put more pressure on Russia and stop selling and buying from Russia. 

 

 

1 minute ago, ericthai said:

So it's Trump that needs to end this war? Not Putin and Zelensky but Trump. You do understand this is not America's war?

You want Trump to get things together and push Putin? What about the EU? tell them to put more pressure on Russia and stop selling and buying from Russia. 

 

 

Trump is the only one that has the most power to cripple Russia and force Putin into a deal with Ukraine that is just surrender. 

But Trump won't do that meaning its Trump along with Putin being responsible for prolollng the war. So yes Ukraine and Europe etc. are mostly on their own against Putin's terrorists coalitiin of the killing.

33 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Trump is the only one that has the most power to cripple Russia and force Putin into a deal with Ukraine that is just surrender. 

Like telling the euros not to buy Russian oil?

1 hour ago, Yagoda said:

Like telling the euros not to buy Russian oil?

Or the US to stop buying Russian fertiliser's and metals (that they could get from Canada) $3.95 billion up 61% in the first half of 2025 though maybe Russian fertiliser is now a lot cheaper because of the tariffs imposed on Canada but not Russia and US farmers can’t afford to buy Canadian.

 

As for the oil Europe has mostly stopped buying Russian oil the main culprits are Hungary (Victor Orban - Pro Russia) and Slovenia (Robert Fico - Pro Russia)

19 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Or the US to stop buying Russian fertiliser's and metals (that they could get from Canada) $3.95 billion up 61% in the first half of 2025 t

You sure?

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports/russia#:~:text=Login,2024

20 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

As for the oil Europe has mostly stopped buying Russian oil the main culprits are Hungary (Victor Orban - Pro Russia) and Slovenia (Robert Fico - Pro Russia)

Well the EU must be pro Russia, because they allow it. Then comes France, Belgium, Germany......

 

Tell us what you think Trump should do to Putin. Tell us your plan

I have a great deal of respect for Vlad Vexler, and it’s very sad that he is seriously ill. His insights on the conflict and the broader trajectory of the world are remarkably accurate predictable yet often overlooked and he hits the mark every time. Western promises to send troops to Ukraine are largely hollow aspirations and will almost certainly never materialize. Agreed.

 

 

On 9/4/2025 at 12:26 PM, Mavideol said:

Russia has no say so who can and can not be or go to Ukraine, only Ukraine has that right

So Cuba have right to decide what missiles will be located in their territory?

15 minutes ago, VBer said:

So Cuba have right to decide what missiles will be located in their territory?

Monroe doctrine rules - rules for thee but not for me. Pax Americana   ex uber alles. 

9 hours ago, VBer said:

So Cuba have right to decide what missiles will be located in their territory?

Russia war ships and military personal are in Cuba, regularly conducting military drills over there, nothing to do with missiles, foreign troops in Ukraine are not missiles but deflection and good try

Trump famous comment about ending the war in Ukraine just keeps coming hitting back at him, the master of the "NO" deal has been played by the dictator and he still not doing anything to recuperate the loss of face, just fake promises and ranting, he keeps given Putin red lines and time frames but the Russian doesn't give a rats arrrrsss and keeps doing as he pleases

Democrat roasts Trump on failed peace with Putin as another two week deadline crashes and burns

 

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/democrat-roasts-trump-on-failed-peace-with-putin-as-another-two-week-deadline-crashes-and-burns/ar-AA1LTNil?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=68ba45c0757c4ca2bb6fb0ae105bc97a&ei=57

 

 

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Trump famous comment about ending the war in Ukraine just keeps coming hitting back at him, the master of the "NO" deal has been played by the dictator and he still not doing anything to recuperate the loss of face, just fake promises and ranting, he keeps given Putin red lines and time frames but the Russian doesn't give a rats arrrrsss and keeps doing as he pleases

Democrat roasts Trump on failed peace with Putin as another two week deadline crashes and burns

 

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/democrat-roasts-trump-on-failed-peace-with-putin-as-another-two-week-deadline-crashes-and-burns/ar-AA1LTNil?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=68ba45c0757c4ca2bb6fb0ae105bc97a&ei=57

 

 

Trump is both a failing idiot and a stooge of Putin I think on that we are in agreement. 

21 hours ago, rice555 said:

You are correct, it was said by Gen. Mark Millie in a US house committee

metting in DC 

 

There is anecdotal evidence Russia thought the same. Ukraine captured truckloads of packed dress uniforms for the inevitable goose stepping victory parade. Senior Russian officers had also placed bookings at top Kyiv restaurants. Among many of the Russians captured early early on were police or gendarmeries officers. OMON is essentially a Soviet era riot police squad. SOBR is described as an elite rapid response force, so I suppose similar to SWAT officers in the US or London Met Police's Specialist Firearms Command, but reporting at the federal level.

 

This "press conference" is interesting. Of course, there is the propaganda element, and I think these three men have been filled in with "facts" by their Ukrainian captors, because I have seen other interviews with two of these men, where they seem a bit more confused about the sequence of events, and how much they knew was going on (if you recall, Russian units had assembled in Belarus for "exercises", and this included policemen). Whatever you think of the details these men have to say, if you accept their identities (ie senior officers in the paramilitary police), then you have to ask, why were policemen trained in crowd control, part of the spearhead into a major city, if Russia expected a hard fight (Russia expected to quickly decapitate the government, thereby nullifying a divided military). Sure, Militay Police are always needed for traffic management, but these aren't traffice cops.

 

The bearded chap is especially interesting. In other interviews, essentially in his cell, he came over as a thoughtful chap, first and foremost, a copper. He had an ordinary life for a middle aged Russian man (smoked a bit, seperated from wife), but seemed a professional. Russian squaddies, in similar situations, genuinely seemed confused, and apologetic. Captured army and airforce officers generally come over as complete pricks.

 

The second interview with  Col. Astakhov Dmitry Mikhailovich, which is more of a factual interview, he confirms the belief that the plan expected Kyiv to fall quickly. He didn't travel with riot gear, and describes himself as a serious crimes officer, which sounds more investigatory.

 

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, MicroB said:

 

There is anecdotal evidence Russia thought the same. Ukraine captured truckloads of packed dress uniforms for the inevitable goose stepping victory parade. Senior Russian officers had also placed bookings at top Kyiv restaurants. Among many of the Russians captured early early on were police or gendarmeries officers. OMON is essentially a Soviet era riot police squad. SOBR is described as an elite rapid response force, so I suppose similar to SWAT officers in the US or London Met Police's Specialist Firearms Command, but reporting at the federal level.

 

This "press conference" is interesting. Of course, there is the propaganda element, and I think these three men have been filled in with "facts" by their Ukrainian captors, because I have seen other interviews with two of these men, where they seem a bit more confused about the sequence of events, and how much they knew was going on (if you recall, Russian units had assembled in Belarus for "exercises", and this included policemen). Whatever you think of the details these men have to say, if you accept their identities (ie senior officers in the paramilitary police), then you have to ask, why were policemen trained in crowd control, part of the spearhead into a major city, if Russia expected a hard fight (Russia expected to quickly decapitate the government, thereby nullifying a divided military). Sure, Militay Police are always needed for traffic management, but these aren't traffice cops.

 

The bearded chap is especially interesting. In other interviews, essentially in his cell, he came over as a thoughtful chap, first and foremost, a copper. He had an ordinary life for a middle aged Russian man (smoked a bit, seperated from wife), but seemed a professional. Russian squaddies, in similar situations, genuinely seemed confused, and apologetic. Captured army and airforce officers generally come over as complete pricks.

 

The second interview with  Col. Astakhov Dmitry Mikhailovich, which is more of a factual interview, he confirms the belief that the plan expected Kyiv to fall quickly. He didn't travel with riot gear, and describes himself as a serious crimes officer, which sounds more investigatory.

 

 

 

 

Parading prisoners of war, especially when they appear beaten or humiliated, is a clear violation of the Geneva Conventions. Article 13 of the Third Geneva Convention protects POWs from violence, intimidation, public scrutiny, and degrading treatment. Such actions are not only illegal under international humanitarian law but may also constitute war crimes. POWs must always be treated humanely and with dignity.I thought that as a (assumed) ex-squaddie you would know and respect that. NATO forces would never do this  and rightly so. 

 

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/ihl-treaties/gciii-1949/article-13/commentary/1960

 

 

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Russia war ships and military personal are in Cuba, regularly conducting military drills over there, nothing to do with missiles, foreign troops in Ukraine are not missiles but deflection and good try

This is answer not to my question, but to some another. I will write it again: does Cuba as independent country have right to deploy missile silos in their territory?

17 hours ago, VBer said:

So Cuba have right to decide what missiles will be located in their territory?

 

8 hours ago, Mavideol said:

Trump famous comment about ending the war in Ukraine just keeps coming hitting back at him, the master of the "NO" deal has been played by the dictator and he still not doing anything to recuperate the loss of face, just fake promises and ranting, he keeps given Putin red lines and time frames but the Russian doesn't give a rats arrrrsss and keeps doing as he pleases

Democrat roasts Trump on failed peace with Putin as another two week deadline crashes and burns

 

https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/democrat-roasts-trump-on-failed-peace-with-putin-as-another-two-week-deadline-crashes-and-burns/ar-AA1LTNil?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=LCTS&cvid=68ba45c0757c4ca2bb6fb0ae105bc97a&ei=57

 

 

yup, lets keep harping about what he wanted to get done but was unable because nobody in the world can make another person do something.

 

I'm no fan of Trump but at least Trump is trying to end things instead of just keep throwing money at the issue. 

 

You guys give Trump a hard time weather he doesn't do anything or if he does something he always wrong according to you guys. (red carpet for Putin)

Trump is not the one that decides if the war ends of not. This could end if Putin and Zelensky would agree to terms, Putin is ready Zelensky doesn't like the terms. so who is at fault for the continued war? 

21 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Trump is the only one that has the most power to cripple Russia and force Putin into a deal with Ukraine that is just surrender. 

But Trump won't do that meaning its Trump along with Putin being responsible for prolollng the war. So yes Ukraine and Europe etc. are mostly on their own against Putin's terrorists coalitiin of the killing.

So Biden wasn't strong enough only Trump??

The war could end tomorrow if they really wanted it to.  

28 minutes ago, ericthai said:

 

yup, lets keep harping about what he wanted to get done but was unable because nobody in the world can make another person do something.

 

I'm no fan of Trump but at least Trump is trying to end things instead of just keep throwing money at the issue. 

 

You guys give Trump a hard time weather he doesn't do anything or if he does something he always wrong according to you guys. (red carpet for Putin)

Trump is not the one that decides if the war ends of not. This could end if Putin and Zelensky would agree to terms, Putin is ready Zelensky doesn't like the terms. so who is at fault for the continued war? 

Putin's terms are Ukraine surrendering. In other words, unacceptable.