2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

It's not the mere fact there is a wall. But that this wall effectively imprisoned Palestinians in a small, run down piece of land, which makes it so shocking.

 

Post Apartheid what country imprisons its own population in Ghettos like this?

 

   Do you realise that was also a wall on the Gaza /Egyptian border in the South ?

   Israel built the wall to stop Palestinian terrorists entering Israel and killing and bombing Israelis and to stop weapons entering Gaza .

   Also, do you realise that Gazins are NOT Israelis citizens ?

Palestinians living in Gaza are NOT citizens of Israel 

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

Why are so many people pro-Israel?

 

I just don't understand it.

 

Maybe it isn't pro-Israeli.  Maybe it is pro civilization.  One side respects women's rights, gay rights, elections, any citizen can be elected Arab or Jew or ????.   Has built a modern successful economy.  The other side forces women into hijabs, sends children with bombs strapped to them into markets, throws gays off roof tops.  And lives in the 11th century.

 

Not hard to see why many in the civilized world side with Israel.  IMO if peace could be assured (it can't but hypothetically work with me) Israel would open their border and live in peace with the Gazans and even help them build a modern society.  With the same assurance the Gazans would try to wipe out every jew.  For the life of me I can't understand how anyone can side with the Gazans.

 

 

1 hour ago, Cameroni said:

Why are so many people pro-Israel?

 

I just don't understand it.

Can you suggest a better country at the moment for america to ally with? Everyone else is useless

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Can you suggest another better country at the moment for america to ally with? Everyone else is useless

Iceland?

8 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Then you would be shocked to see the wall Egypt built to keep the Palestinians out. Trump would be impressed.

 

I'm not shocked by any wall, it's what the wall represents, the mens rea, the intention, the attempt to imprison a whole, run down people. In their own homeland.

 

It's pretty shocking.

5 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Can you suggest a better country at the moment for america to ally with? Everyone else is useless

 

Oh there's not question, as an ally Israel makes perfect sense for the US.

 

Israel has been beneficial in many ways, great inventions, medical research, technological advances, ingenious synthetic drugs. I'm not doubting the strategic use of Israel and the genius of some Israelis.

 

I am thinking of the settlers, land theft, murder of children, the imprisonment of the local people, there is not just silver lining in the cloud that is Israel, there is a lot of blood red.

36 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

No, it doesn't. There is no morality in what occured, unless you subscribe to that thing about sins of the father's etc.

It was plain hatred and murder of young people. And the Palestinians have paid for it. It sickened me seeing Muslims in Australia celebrating on that day two years ago.

Australia seems like an awful place. Id rather go to the middle east

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I'm not shocked by any wall, it's what the wall represents, the mens rea, the intention, the attempt to imprison a whole, run down people. In their own homeland.

 

It's pretty shocking.

Yes, that's life.

1 minute ago, Cameroni said:

 

Oh there's not question, as an ally Israel makes perfect sense for the US.

 

Israel has been beneficial in many ways, great inventions, medical research, technological advances, ingenious synthetic drugs. I'm not doubting the strategic use of Israel and the genius of some Israelis.

 

I am thinking of the settlers, land theft, murder of children, the imprisonment of the local people, there is not just silver lining in the cloud that is Israel, there is a lot of blood red.

Well if youre pro US then it would make sense to be pro israel. It doesnt make sense to be pro russia as that country offers nothing for us

Just now, Cameroni said:

 

I'm not shocked by any wall, it's what the wall represents, the mens rea, the intention, the attempt to imprison a whole, run down people. In their own homeland.

 

It's pretty shocking.

 

   Israel doesn't owe Palestine anything .

As Palestine kept attacking Israel, Israel had to take measures to stop them .

Palestinians imprisoned themselves by forcing Israel to build a wall for security reasons 

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

Oh there's not question, as an ally Israel makes perfect sense for the US.

 

Israel has been beneficial in many ways, great inventions, medical research, technological advances, ingenious synthetic drugs. I'm not doubting the strategic use of Israel and the genius of some Israelis.

 

I am thinking of the settlers, land theft, murder of children, the imprisonment of the local people, there is not just silver lining in the cloud that is Israel, there is a lot of blood red.

Are you talking about the USA or Israel. It's not clear.

Just now, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israel doesn't owe Palestine anything .

As Palestine kept attacking Israel, Israel had to take measures to stop them .

Palestinians imprisoned themselves by forcing Israel to build a wall for security reasons 

One sided rethoric day in day out! You never get tired of repeating yourselves thousands of times? 

 

You know it is not that simple, I'm sure you know it.

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

One side respects women's rights

 

You do know there are buses in Israel where women are segregated from men? That women are fighting for divorce rights in Israel, where religious law prevails. Neither muslims nor jews seem to be great champions of womens' rights. Not that they should be, or I think any less of them for it, but I'm just saying. That's one thing I like about about both jews and muslims.

 

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

 Has built a modern successful economy

 

That's true, but it's hard to be impressed when you know this economy is propped up by states like the US, Germany and such, with arms sales, and Russian mafia money.

 

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

The other side forces women into hijabs

 

Yes, not a big fan of hijabs myself. Then again the Kippa and the wigs and hairstyles of the Orthodox Jews don't look much better.

 

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

Israel would open their border and live in peace with the Gazans and even help them build a modern society. 

 

I don't think so, I think the Israelis want to eradicate all Palestinians, because they know their deeds have been too evill towards the Palestinians, who could never forgive them.  So this peace and co-opeartion does not seem a realistic option.

 

 

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

One sided rethoric day in day out! You never get tired of repeating yourselves thousands of times? 

 

You know it is not that simple, I'm sure you know it.

Its not as simple as who is right or wrong. I dont understand why non jews or muslims would involve themselves but the west seems to have taken it upon themselves to fight in this war that means nothing for them

1 minute ago, Hummin said:

One sided rethoric day in day out! You never get tired of repeating yourselves thousands of times? 

 

You know it is not that simple, I'm sure you know it.

 

   What are the complexities of it ?

Israel built a wall to keep Palestinians terrorists out of Israel .

A security measure 

What more to it is there ?

5 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Well if youre pro US then it would make sense to be pro israel. It doesnt make sense to be pro russia as that country offers nothing for us

Do you think Nat Turner was a terrorist or a freedom fighter?
 I assume you learned about his revolt.

4 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Israel doesn't owe Palestine anything .

As Palestine kept attacking Israel, Israel had to take measures to stop them .

Palestinians imprisoned themselves by forcing Israel to build a wall for security reasons 

 

I understand the rationale. But Israel owes itself the ability to look in the mirror. 

 

Let's suppose Israel succeeds in eradicating every last Palestinian.

 

Do you seriously think the rest of the world will not view Israelis as the criminals they are for stealing land and killing the people who lived there?

 

Do you think history just forgets? Maybe in hundreds of years. But in the short term, even if genocide is successful, Israel will be an Untouchable for most other nations.

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Its not as simple as who is right or wrong. I dont understand why non jews or muslims would involve themselves but the west seems to have taken it upon themselves to fight in this war that means nothing for them

Our governments are complicit in genocide, quite simple really.

18 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Well if youre pro US then it would make sense to be pro israel. It doesnt make sense to be pro russia as that country offers nothing for us

 

If one looks at matters in a purely utilitarian way, yes that would be the case. But I look at things in a moralist way. Right and wrong matter to me.

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

You do know there are buses in Israel where women are segregated from men?

 

    There's also segregation in Thailand with Buddhist Monks .

2 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Its not as simple as who is right or wrong. I dont understand why non jews or muslims would involve themselves but the west seems to have taken it upon themselves to fight in this war that means nothing for them

Keep out of it and they will destroy each other which wouldn't be bad.

 

Only problem is the rich comfortable pretend  Jews in the USA who are quite happy to see this crap continue as the narcissistic prats they are.

20 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

 

Maybe it isn't pro-Israeli.  Maybe it is pro civilization.  One side respects women's rights, gay rights, elections, any citizen can be elected Arab or Jew or ????.   Has built a modern successful economy.  The other side forces women into hijabs, sends children with bombs strapped to them into markets, throws gays off roof tops.  And lives in the 11th century.

 

Not hard to see why many in the civilized world side with Israel.  IMO if peace could be assured (it can't but hypothetically work with me) Israel would open their border and live in peace with the Gazans and even help them build a modern society.  With the same assurance the Gazans would try to wipe out every jew.  For the life of me I can't understand how anyone can side with the Gazans.

 

 

You have a colonial attitude and can’t accept other cultures. I bet you can’t speak fluent Thai.

2 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

If one looks at matters in a purely utilitarian way, yes that would be the case. But I look things in a moralist way. Right and wrong matter to me.

Well ukraines not wrong, they didnt do anything. If you want the right country to blame, its the one that started the war

6 minutes ago, angryguy said:

Its not as simple as who is right or wrong. I dont understand why non jews or muslims would involve themselves but the west seems to have taken it upon themselves to fight in this war that means nothing for them

 

Yes, I think that's correct, this Israel-Palestine issue brings us to the limits of moral perspective.

 

It shows there is no absolute right or wrong. Rather it depends on where your perspective lies.

 

That does not mean that those of us who aren't jewish or muslims can't have our opinion on things. But I certainly wouldn't involve myself in the conflict in any meaningful way, that would be insane.

4 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

I understand the rationale. But Israel owes itself the ability to look in the mirror. 

 

Let's suppose Israel succeeds in eradicating every last Palestinian.

 

Do you seriously think the rest of the world will not view Israelis as the criminals they are for stealing land and killing the people who lived there?

 

Do you think history just forgets? Maybe in hundreds of years. But in the short term, even if genocide is successful, Israel will be an Untouchable for most other nations.

A lot of people don't believe in the Holocaust. That was only 80 years ago.

Quite a big deal I understand.

A skirmish in Palestine will be forgotten about in twenty years if peace can be brokered.

7 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

You do know there are buses in Israel where women are segregated from men?

No, I wondered why the women don’t dance with the men.

 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, JimCM said:

Our governments are complicit in genocide, quite simple really.

What genocide? 

In Palestine? Not happening. Casualties of war doesn't equate to genocide.

4 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

A lot of people don't believe in the Holocaust. That was only 80 years ago.

Quite a big deal I understand.

A skirmish in Palestine will be forgotten about in twenty years if peace can be brokered.

 

There's no denying the moral impact of the Holorcaust has reduced, following a peak  in the 1970s and 1980s, but I wouldn't say it has lost all of its clout. To this day what Filipinos learn about Germans is that they are evil killers, and to this day Germans are disliked the world over, beacause children in schools all over the world learn about German criminals 85 years ago. Israel may suffer the same fate.

 

I don't think the archetype Israel represents will swiftly be forgotten. It could fossilize into a universal archetype of evil for 100 years. At least. Maybe 200 years.

7 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You have a colonial attitude and can’t accept other cultures. I bet you can’t speak fluent Thai.

Can you speak fluent Palestinian?

Read the OP.

3 minutes ago, Cameroni said:

 

 

Let's suppose Israel succeeds in eradicating every last Palestinian.

 

 

    Don't believe that Palestinian propaganda .

Israel could have killed EVERY Palestinian  by sunset on Oct 7 2023 if Israel wanted to .

   Do you really believe Israel wants to kill ALL Palestinians ?