General Maintenance

[JonnieB]

This is just a general question about what general maintenance is required (if any) on the little water pumps connected to the water storage tanks on most houses in Thailand. I don't know much about these pumps as back in my piece of Farangland, the city water system had sufficient pressure and nobody had their own little water cisterns.

Anyway, is there anything I need to do to keep my little water pump in tip-top condition? As is is a pump, I assume there are moving parts...is any oiling necessary? This is an electric unit.

Also, the other day, the unit seemed to shut itself off...I returned home and there was no water pressure. I checked the pump and it seemed very very hot and would not start. I cut the electricity to it and after a couple hours (after it apparently cooled down) I turned the electricity back on and the unit came back to life. Also, since this incident, I notice that the unit seems to be running even when no taps/faucets are on inside the house. Maybe this is why the unit ran hot and shut-off. Any ideas about this.

Thanks in advance.

[Farma]

If your pump isn’t cutting off I’d hazard a guess and say the level sensor in your storage tank has stuck and needs cleaning and adjusting.

If that doesn’t fix the problem, the pressure switch controlling your pump has possibly stuck and needs a gentle hit on the side to release it.

Edit. on further thought, check the pressure switch first. if the float level was stuck you would have water constantly overflowing.

Edited August 15, 2007 by Farma

[autonomous_unit]

Our pump started running continuously one day. I finally figured out that it was pumping water in a loop, from the tank towards the house and then back around the street bypass circuit into the tank again, because a check-valve had failed. In fact, the water meter could be seen to quiver and even spin backwards at times as the pump tried to pressurize the street pipes too!

This happened because our system has the tank and pump in parallel with a direct line from the street, both joining back together before the house. The check-valve is supposed to prevent water flow from the pressurized side back to the street. With this arrangement, the water is supplied directly from the street unless its pressure drops below the pump's threshold, at which point the pump boosts the pressure using the tank as its water source.

Despite my original misgivings, this system seems to work quite well and the pump often doesn't turn on unless a shower or sink is going full blast.

[elkangorito]

Before anything can be done, the type of pump you have needs to be identified.

Is it a;

1] pressure pump with an air bladder or a,

2] pressure pump without an air bladder?

If there is an air bladder, it be he housed in a large cylinder, usually on top of the pump.

The smart people here installed a small rotary 'on demand' pressure pump (no air bladder), which was connected to the outlet of a 1 500 litre tank. This is fine when the main water supply is on but when the supply goes off, the pump continues to operate normally until the water in the tank is drained. At this point in time, the pump then runs continuously & proceeds to get very hot.

This is because that these types of pumps are not meant to run continuously (they have a duty cycle).

In your case & if you have the air bladder type, is the bladder still full of air? If it isn't, it will run continuously. Air bladder pumps need the pressure of the air bladder checked 6 monthly. Most models can be recharged through a normal car tyre valve on the bladder housing. Apart from this, ensure that the motor has enough ventilation so keep cobwebs, dirt etc away from the motor.

[Boksida]

This is just a general question about what general maintenance is required (if any) on the little water pumps connected to the water storage tanks on most houses in Thailand. I don't know much about these pumps as back in my piece of Farangland, the city water system had sufficient pressure and nobody had their own little water cisterns.

Anyway, is there anything I need to do to keep my little water pump in tip-top condition? As is is a pump, I assume there are moving parts...is any oiling necessary? This is an electric unit.

Also, the other day, the unit seemed to shut itself off...I returned home and there was no water pressure. I checked the pump and it seemed very very hot and would not start. I cut the electricity to it and after a couple hours (after it apparently cooled down) I turned the electricity back on and the unit came back to life. Also, since this incident, I notice that the unit seems to be running even when no taps/faucets are on inside the house. Maybe this is why the unit ran hot and shut-off. Any ideas about this.

Thanks in advance.

Sounds to me like the problem may be on the suction side of your pump and you are losing prime. Are you pumping from a well, water main, overhead tank, below ground tank or?

[JAS21]

This is just a general question about what general maintenance is required (if any) on the little water pumps connected to the water storage tanks on most houses in Thailand. I don't know much about these pumps as back in my piece of Farangland, the city water system had sufficient pressure and nobody had their own little water cisterns.

Anyway, is there anything I need to do to keep my little water pump in tip-top condition? As is is a pump, I assume there are moving parts...is any oiling necessary? This is an electric unit.

Also, the other day, the unit seemed to shut itself off...I returned home and there was no water pressure. I checked the pump and it seemed very very hot and would not start. I cut the electricity to it and after a couple hours (after it apparently cooled down) I turned the electricity back on and the unit came back to life. Also, since this incident, I notice that the unit seems to be running even when no taps/faucets are on inside the house. Maybe this is why the unit ran hot and shut-off. Any ideas about this.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry but you need to describe your system a bit.

Does the pump have two supplies? one from a tank above ground/below ground and another direct from the mains?.

Does the pump have a name/model number?

What does the pump look like?

We can only guess until you can describe things a little more.......

[JonnieB]

Thanks for the comments...sorry but I am a complete neophyte when it comes to these pumps...never had to deal with them before.

I guess my houses set-up is pretty typical. There is a SS 1500 liter tank connected to Pattaya city water mains. There is a Mitsubishi pump (air bladder or no...what's that??) connected to the tank's outflow pipe. The pump then is connected to the houses' water main.

One other thing I have noticed since this incident...the water used to come out of the faucets, showers, etc. with a pronounced "heart beat." What I mean is that a perceptible change in pressure in the water would be present. it would come out strong and then momentarily lose pressure and then go back to full pressure, i.e., like the pump was beating like a heart pumping. Since The unit shut itself off and I restarted it, this "heart beat" in the pump has disappeared and the water now runs at continuous full (normal) pressure.

To avoid overheating the continuous running pump, I have taken to turning it on when needing water service (i.e., during a shower) and then turning the pump off again.

[Phil Conners]

Unscrew the cap on top of the pump and pour water in until full. Reseat cap, restart pump.

[elkangorito]

I think that your pump may NOT have protection against "dry running" & has suffered some damage as a result. Grundfos domestic pressure pumps usually have this type of protection.

[Zeid]

very valuable information should i also add my experience and ID and we will have a water pump convention.

see what pump you have? what turns it on(activates it ) and what pressure regulation it has, is it the needed pump for the job.

and if you have no idea will suggest you get someone to look at it before you end up having to pay for a new pump,waterregulater, and god forbid you break a line trying to fix it yourself more plumbing costs

[lopburi3]

I would have a pump man (any place selling pumps can supply) check it. Sounds to me as if you have lost the pressure cut on/off function. This has the high/low cut off and make the heart beat you speak of (pump off at 35psi and on at 25psi as an example). If pump does not shut off at max pressure it will overheat and has a thermal cut off that activates. A hour or two unplugged would have cooled it enough to operate again. Do not believe you will require anything other than a new pressure switch (and they are a normal failure item on these pumps as they are full voltage and have arching that burn out the contacts).

[fongvin]

Dear Forum

Just a slight spin on this topic of conversation but what in your opinion, and experience is the best pump available on the market to supply a four bedroom / four bathroom property, then theirs washing machines and other things to consider.

The water source is from the City, and stored below ground in a tank, not sure as to what size is the tank.

Kind regards

[JAS21]

Dear Forum

Just a slight spin on this topic of conversation but what in your opinion, and experience is the best pump available on the market to supply a four bedroom / four bathroom property, then theirs washing machines and other things to consider.

The water source is from the City, and stored below ground in a tank, not sure as to what size is the tank.

Kind regards

Mitsubishi are the best that is available in Thailand. I would expect that you need one from the WP range. We have a 255 but that may not be big enough for you. Also as you are 'sucking up' you may need a slightly bigger pump than if your tank was above ground level, although it depends a bit on your discharge pipework, how many people shower at the same time. We can run two garden hoses off of our pump with no problem, but we only use the smaller size garden hose, the pump might struggle with the larger size.

Too bigger pump will just cause it to cutin/cutout very frequently.

The washer takes very little water and causes our pump to start/stop every few seconds when filling.

We, who live on the boarder of BK and Nonth.,don't have problems with water supply and we quite often have the pump switched off and rely on mains supply pressure. Luckily our village has good supply piping. Not the same for every village around here. We do need the pump to water the lawn. However water pressure is low at night, think company reduce it to save on pipework leakage, or the man winding the pump falls asleep. So the shower may not work well at 3am!

Also you will need to remove the valve on the inlet side, the one integral with the pump. You get the instructions with the pump anyway. They are a doddle to plumb in, unions/pipework/valves and glue are all that you need..Home Pro.

One thing that is important are the non-return valves (nrvs). You will have one on the pump discherge and another in the main supply line, just before where the pump T's into it. Get the high quality ones..you dont want to refill the water companies pipework after you have just paid to get it in the first place!

The cutin/cutout switch could have been our friends problem..difficult to buy..we had to get our replacement direct from Mitibushi. You should not try and adjust these..it fcuks them!

edit for spelling, but there may be more!

Edited August 17, 2007 by John45

[lopburi3]

Mitsubishi pumps are fine and have had two but you will not obtain more than about 25-35psi from even the largest model and if not full flow will cycle on/off with pressure changes. If you want higher pressure and less noise recommend Grundfos MQ45. This will cost about 14,000 baht but provide full 65psi pressure anytime a tap is opened.

[JAS21]

Mitsubishi pumps are fine and have had two but you will not obtain more than about 25-35psi from even the largest model and if not full flow will cycle on/off with pressure changes. If you want higher pressure and less noise recommend Grundfos MQ45. This will cost about 14,000 baht but provide full 65psi pressure anytime a tap is opened.

I haven't seen that pump, looks useful. http://net.grundfos.com/doc/webnet/mq/download/mq50_19.pdf, will give some details.

Might consider it when we have to renew. Only problem I see is that we have already had to have some concrete floors up, including tiles, as the builders plumber..if thats what he was, forgot to put any glue in the pipe couplings...a much higher pressure might find a few more of these and the house is now out of warrenty.

Edited August 18, 2007 by John45

[oldhand]

Thanks for the comments...sorry but I am a complete neophyte when it comes to these pumps...never had to deal with them before.

I guess my houses set-up is pretty typical. There is a SS 1500 liter tank connected to Pattaya city water mains. There is a Mitsubishi pump (air bladder or no...what's that??) connected to the tank's outflow pipe. The pump then is connected to the houses' water main.

One other thing I have noticed since this incident...the water used to come out of the faucets, showers, etc. with a pronounced "heart beat." What I mean is that a perceptible change in pressure in the water would be present. it would come out strong and then momentarily lose pressure and then go back to full pressure, i.e., like the pump was beating like a heart pumping. Since The unit shut itself off and I restarted it, this "heart beat" in the pump has disappeared and the water now runs at continuous full (normal) pressure.

To avoid overheating the continuous running pump, I have taken to turning it on when needing water service (i.e., during a shower) and then turning the pump off again.

Don't worry too much about it as these pumps are very hard wearing and mitsubishi is one of the best of them. If your pump is set up the same as most then it will be below the level of the tank so as long as you have water in the tank the pump will be okay.

It sounds as if the other day when you pump switched off, you ran out of water and the pump kept trying to pump. Most of them have an overheat shut off when this happens and I am guessing that this is what happened to yours. You did the right thing - turn it off and let it cool down. It will be okay.

The only maintenance that you should do is to occasionally spray it down with WD40 or similar to stop it rusting, give it a good covering. If you find that the pump is running on and off when the taps are not turned on either

1. you have a leak in the system

2. you need to let the water out of the air pressure tank (the big metal tank under the actual pump workings). If this is the case Just switch off the pump and turn off the valve that lets the water flow to the pump and then undo the nuts on the cover of the outlet on the opposite side of your outlet pipe (all of these pumps have 2 outlet options - one on either side of the pump). Always best to have let the pressure out of the pump first by turning a tap on once you have shut the pump and water inlet off otherwise you will get wet!

Once all the water has drained out of the tank, tighten the cover back up, turn on the water and turn on the pump, all shoud work normally.

If your pump is on top of you tank you may need to prime the pump again.

Hope this helps - let me know if you are still having trouble

[JonnieB]

The only maintenance that you should do is to occasionally spray it down with WD40 or similar to stop it rusting, give it a good covering.

If you find that the pump is running on and off when the taps are not turned on either

1. you have a leak in the system

2. you need to let the water out of the air pressure tank (the big metal tank under the actual pump workings). If this is the case Just switch off the pump and turn off the valve that lets the water flow to the pump and then undo the nuts on the cover of the outlet on the opposite side of your outlet pipe (all of these pumps have 2 outlet options - one on either side of the pump). Always best to have let the pressure out of the pump first by turning a tap on once you have shut the pump and water inlet off otherwise you will get wet!

Once all the water has drained out of the tank, tighten the cover back up, turn on the water and turn on the pump, all should work normally.

If your pump is on top of you tank you may need to prime the pump again.

Hope this helps - let me know if you are still having trouble

Thanks for the detailed maintenance advice.

As to oiling, all that is necessary is to remove the plastic cover on the body and spray down the exposed exterior pump parts with WD40/Sonax type oil spray. There is no internal lube/oiling necessary for these home water pumps?

As to your suggestion that the pump became hot and turned itself off because it was trying to pump water into the house from a storage tank that was dry, I don't think this is what happened. This is because when I returned home initially and didn't have any water pressure/water from the taps, my first suspicion was that the city water was off and my tank might be empty. Therefore, I checked my tank and it appeared to be full (tapped the sides for "tone" check but didn't do a visual check). It was only then that I noticed that the pump next to the tank was very very hot (the plastic cover was very very hot to the touch (and it is in the shade). The pump also appeared to be running when there was no demand from the house so that is when I shut off the electric line to the pump.

So I think it didn't get hot from continuing to pump when no water was available. (However, there is a small chance that my "tone" check of the tank was wrong and the tank was in fact empty and that it refilled during the period the pump was shut-off.) Again, however, after cutting the power for a few hours and the pump cooling down, it worked fine when I put it back on. Currently, I just turn on the pump power when actually using water in the house and cut the power when finished - otherwise the pump continues to run.

As suggested above, I will have a local hardware pump-man come out and take a look at it.

[elkangorito]

It's never a good idea to spray electric motors with things like WD-40 as these oily applications will attract dust. Motors must be kept as dry as possible.

[JonnieB]

OK, I had someone from a one of the local hardware stores come out and look at the pump. He suspected it was the "pressure" valve that was worn-out and that was causing the auto-shut-off to fail. He would replace that part and also install a cut-off valve between the pump and the house (there already is one between the SS tank and the pump) in order to facilitate this and future inspections/repairs of the pump. Total cost would be B1200.

Questions:

Is that likely the problem with the unit?

Is that a reasonable price for the part and labour? Or is it at B250 part I can pick-up at Home Pro and and install myself?

Edited August 21, 2007 by JonnieB

[elkangorito]

OK, I had someone from a one of the local hardware stores come out and look at the pump. He suspected it was the "pressure" valve that was worn-out and that was causing the auto-shut-off to fail. He would replace that part and also install a cut-off valve between the pump and the house (there already is one between the SS tank and the pump) in order to facilitate this and future inspections/repairs of the pump. Total cost would be B1200.

Questions:

Is that likely the problem with the unit?

Is that a reasonable price for the part and labour? Or is it at B250 part I can pick-up at Home Pro and and install myself?

1200 sounds about right...or maybe even a bit cheap. 1200 Baht is about AU$40.00 (Australian). How does a pressure valve 'wear out'? How old is the pump?

[JonnieB]

OK, I had someone from a one of the local hardware stores come out and look at the pump. He suspected it was the "pressure" valve that was worn-out and that was causing the auto-shut-off to fail. He would replace that part and also install a cut-off valve between the pump and the house (there already is one between the SS tank and the pump) in order to facilitate this and future inspections/repairs of the pump. Total cost would be B1200.

Questions:

Is that likely the problem with the unit?

Is that a reasonable price for the part and labour? Or is it at B250 part I can pick-up at Home Pro and and install myself?

1200 sounds about right...or maybe even a bit cheap. 1200 Baht is about AU$40.00 (Australian). How does a pressure valve 'wear out'? How old is the pump?

As I mentioned before, I am a neophyte when it comes to these pumps so I am relying on advice here and from the "pump-man." It is a Mitsuibishi pump and I would suspect it's about 2-3 years old.

Edited August 21, 2007 by JonnieB

[lopburi3]

Believe the pressure valve is the cut off switch (one unit that plugs into a hole on top) and am almost sure the unit is the problem so believe it will solve your problem. Can't remember the price but they are not cheap (which is why some will try contact cleaning first). The only other items that will normally fail in my experience (once in 15 years) was the air intake to keep tank with a charge. In that case I was able to disassemble and clean it - which solved the problem.

[JonnieB]

Thanks all for the good advice. I will go ahead and have this work done by the nak naum and add my little bit of liquidity to the Pattaya economy

[JAS21]

Thanks all for the good advice. I will go ahead and have this work done by the nak naum and add my little bit of liquidity to the Pattaya economy

If it is the cutin/cutout pressure switch..we paid Mitubishi 700baht to come and look at the pump and a little over 200baht for the switch. I knew what the problem was but couldn't find anywhere to buy the switch. In the end I just wanted the pump fixing so paid up..its less than a round of golf......... Just make sure it is a new switch that is fitted..should have some white paint on the adjustment screws. Ask the guy where he got the switch from..Mitibushi?

[JonnieB]

Thanks all for the good advice. I will go ahead and have this work done by the nak naum and add my little bit of liquidity to the Pattaya economy

If it is the cutin/cutout pressure switch..we paid Mitubishi 700baht to come and look at the pump and a little over 200baht for the switch. I knew what the problem was but couldn't find anywhere to buy the switch. In the end I just wanted the pump fixing so paid up..its less than a round of golf......... Just make sure it is a new switch that is fitted..should have some white paint on the adjustment screws. Ask the guy where he got the switch from..Mitibushi?

That's a good point. Yes, he did point to a round cynlindricle nodule connected to the top of the pump. Maybe I will see if I can find the official Mistu service center/dealer for Pattaya area.

[lopburi3]

Any pump selling shop (not Lotus type place) should have spares on hand but you must connect electric wires so I would not advise you to DIY as you have indicated you do not know about such things. If you do it please turn off main house electric breaker as all too often switches cut the wrong wire and leave the appliance hot.

If you open the units there is a very small adjustment screw with lock cement (setting the pressure point) on it that might be adjustable enough to get it running for awhile but if it has got to that a new switch is really the way to go. But I caution again putting fingers in this area is dangerous. Don't do it yourself.

[jonniebkk]

Final Report on this matter...

As posted earlier, I was having a problem with my water pump and requested advice on a solution. Through the advice of the helpful members of this forum, the problem was determined to most likely be the pump's pressure switch/valve. I had a plumber contractor type come out and look at it and he too said it was the pressure valve and offered to change it and also add a cut-off switch to outlet side of the pump for B1200. Some here thought this was a good price...and I almost had him come back and do the work.

As I am the lazy type, I postponed calling him back and was wandering around my local Home Works outlet and remember I wanted to see what these pressure valves cost and if they were available for sale. One of the plumbing department salesguys said he could change it for me and it would cost only B650 (half what the contractor quoted (but no cut-off valve...I didn't see why I needed another one anyway as there already was one). He took my name and address and said he would come the next day.

He did in fact come out to the house today and had what looked like a new pressure switch with him. He unwired and unscrewed the old one and put in the new. The new one was had a label named "Yamada" and said it was made in Malaysia. We tested the pump and it seemed to be working fine with the new valve. The chap was a pleasant nice fellow and said to come see him at the store if there was any problem with it.

The final kicker...when I ask him how much...he said B500...B150 less than he quoted at the store. I surmise the part cost him less than he estimated and he passed on the savings to me or he forgot his original quote. In any case, I am happy to have my pump back working again