21 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Thailand can tax income of foreigners, but if the foreigners pay tax already in their home country, Thailand can't tax again

 

Not true, for some double tax agreements (DTAs). For the US, a remitted private pension or an IRA distribution to Thailand -- is PRIMARILY taxable by Thailand according to the DTA. But since the US taxes all worldwide income, it also has taxation rights on this income, albeit SECONDARILY. As such, it has to issue a credit for the Thai taxes paid.

 

But some income, like US government pensions, are EXCLUSIVELY taxable by the US. Thus Thailand can't tax them SECONDARILY.

 

But rental income on US properties is another situation. In this case, the US has PRIMARY taxation rights, but Thailand can also tax this income (if remitted) SECONDARILY. But being in the secondary position means they have to offer a credit for the US taxes paid.

 

Anyway, seemingly confusing, but not really. Just scenarios on preventing double taxation.

 

So, if someday I had a remitted private pension to Thailand, I would file as early as possible in Thailand to cover the tax situation here. I'd then have plenty of time to file my US taxes, and a Form 1116 for a credit for my Thai taxes. 

 

That I have to pay US tax -- and did by withholding taxes prior to filing my Thai tax return -- doesn't mean Thailand "can't tax again." If somehow I filed US taxes before my Thai return -- I'd still owe Thai taxes per the DTA; but I'd then have to file an amended US tax return to get the credit for Thai taxes paid. 

5 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

have you "sensed " this  or do you have access to privileged information,  or perhaps neither

 

They had an opportunity to set things in motion in the first 6 months (not that it would have been easy then).......But the tax announcement was a car wreck on steroids that went over a cliff, a disaster to say the least...

 

The opportunity is long gone now....

A disaster of this magnitude could take a decade or 2 to recover from and very likely there will NEVER be a recovery...

29 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

have you "sensed " this  or do you have access to privileged information,  or perhaps neither

I don't think I have privileged information, but I do have a lawyer here in Thailand who advises me on all tax related issues. 

9 minutes ago, JimGant said:

 

Not true, for some double tax agreements (DTAs). For the US, a remitted private pension or an IRA distribution to Thailand -- is PRIMARILY taxable by Thailand according to the DTA. But since the US taxes all worldwide income, it also has taxation rights on this income, albeit SECONDARILY. As such, it has to issue a credit for the Thai taxes paid.

 

But some income, like US government pensions, are EXCLUSIVELY taxable by the US. Thus Thailand can't tax them SECONDARILY.

 

But rental income on US properties is another situation. In this case, the US has PRIMARY taxation rights, but Thailand can also tax this income (if remitted) SECONDARILY. But being in the secondary position means they have to offer a credit for the US taxes paid.

 

Anyway, seemingly confusing, but not really. Just scenarios on preventing double taxation.

 

So, if someday I had a remitted private pension to Thailand, I would file as early as possible in Thailand to cover the tax situation here. I'd then have plenty of time to file my US taxes, and a Form 1116 for a credit for my Thai taxes. 

 

That I have to pay US tax -- and did by withholding taxes prior to filing my Thai tax return -- doesn't mean Thailand "can't tax again." If somehow I filed US taxes before my Thai return -- I'd still owe Thai taxes per the DTA; but I'd then have to file an amended US tax return to get the credit for Thai taxes paid. 

Also,

I believe it does not mean that Thailand cannot "tax again" if tax has been paid in another country.

I believe the tax paid in another country can be deducted against the Thai payment, which means effectively no tax is paid to Thailand, but it is still "taxed".

2 minutes ago, Furioso said:

I don't think I have privileged information, but I do have a lawyer here in Thailand who advises me on all tax related issues. 

Do you have a decent one that you can ask a few informative questions for a good price?

58 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

This is clearly a case of tax evasion, although that does not mean that anyone will be interested in it.

 

Remember that there is a gift tax in Thailand, I believe it's 5% for money gifted to a spouse. However, I also read that gifts cannot be used to evade taxes.

 

I would suggest it's risky to do this on a large scale.

It's 20 million baht per year.

58 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

and if the worst comes to the worst if no tax is owed the maximum penalty for not filing a return is only 2000bt

as AI confirms

"

Failure to file a personal income tax return in 

Thailand

, even if no tax is owed, generally results in a criminal fine not exceeding 2,000 THB. The specific amount often depends on how late the filing is. 

 

Breakdown of Penalties

The penalties for not filing a tax return (Form P.N.D. 90 or P.N.D. 91) by the deadline (typically March 31 of the following year, or an extended date for e-filing) are as follows: 

• Fixed Fine: The primary penalty for late filing when no tax is owed is a fine of up to 2,000 THB.
  • If the return is submitted within 7 days after the deadline, the fine is often around 1,000 THB.
  • If it is submitted more than 7 days late, the fine can increase to 2,000 THB.

its a no brainer really

I always file one month late, as it's quieter. Was 100 baht fine, now 200.

58 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

lol  his wife will be very interested and so will her family

I can send it to my children at university too.

 

3 minutes ago, JimCM said:

• Fixed Fine: The primary penalty for late filing when no tax is owed is a fine of up to 2,000 THB.
  • If the return is submitted within 7 days after the deadline, the fine is often around 1,000 THB.
  • If it is submitted more than 7 days late, the fine can increase to 2,000 THB.

its a no brainer really

... the clever farang will just claim he forget to file the tax return (for the last few years), but the TRD comes to the conclusion it was obvious an attempt for tax evasion ... 

penalties for tax evasion can be harsh, especially if you transfer serious money into thailand, which group you probably don't belong to ... 

 

 

22 minutes ago, JimCM said:

I can send it to my children at university too.

 

that's very intelligent, because it's you (your name) who did the transfer to thailand ...why did you do that ... 

23 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

I believe it does not mean that Thailand cannot "tax again" if tax has been paid in another country.

I believe the tax paid in another country can be deducted against the Thai payment, which means effectively no tax is paid to Thailand, but it is still "taxed".

Yes, look at the rental income example, above. Thailand here has secondary taxation rights, but has to absorb a credit for the US taxes paid. If this credit is less than the Thai tax bill, then the difference is collected taxes in the Thai coffer. Credit more than Thai taxes -- no collected taxes.

 

This a case where, after doing the math and I saw I'd owe no Thai tax on remitted rental income to Thailand, I'd just not waste anybody's time and just not file a Thai tax return (assuming no other income involved). 

Only people pushing keeping it alive are those so call expat lawyers and tax accountants.

17 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

Do you have a decent one that you can ask a few informative questions for a good price?

My best suggestion is google the top three tax lawyers in your area and contact each of them and ask them how much they charge for exactly what you want. Bangkok is double the price of most other Thai cities. I pay 10,000-30,000 baht for a variety of legal services each year. It's something I take very serious I don't walk into a lawyer's office wearing a t-shirt and cargo shorts. The quality here in Thailand is excellent. 

27 minutes ago, JimCM said:

It's 20 million baht per year.

However, the gift cannot be used for your benefit and not to evade taxes. Anyhow, if your gift is somehow not liable for Thai tax, it might be liable for UK tax.

13 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

the clever farang will just claim he forget to file the tax return (for the last few years), but the TRD comes to the conclusion it was obvious an attempt for tax evasion

The failure to file is for having assessable income in some low numbers, well below the taxable income number. AS it's not tax evasion, and 2000k is the max penalty (no interest on unpaid taxes, since there aren't any) -- previous posts on this forum have just said, why waste your time filing, in no taxes owed. And, also, no reports of anyone being fined for not filing when no taxes owed. Bottom line: If you don't owe taxes, don't file. 

16 hours ago, lordgrinz said:

700 new TRD employees just for seeking out foreign taxable remittances, and they are collecting remittance data electronically now?! Yikes! 😬 

 

Some people are in for a serious screwing. Good Gawd!

Have you run the numbers using the Thai tax forms?  Most people don't.  They just freak out and worry, and then jump up and down and incite others to freak out and worry. 
 "OHHHH BABY, You're in for a serious screwing!!!"

Run the numbers and then you'll know.    You can find the forms here.  https://www.rd.go.th/english/67692.html

Example:

30 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

... the clever farang will just claim he forget to file the tax return (for the last few years), but the TRD comes to the conclusion it was obvious an attempt for tax evasion ... 

penalties for tax evasion can be harsh, especially if you transfer serious money into thailand, which group you probably don't belong to ... 

 

 

if you must read my posts read them all,  i have had no income since 2023  I do not owe any tax  it is      impossible for me to evade paying what I do not owe    .   Its clear to all  which group you belong to

 

22 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Only people pushing keeping it alive are those so call expat lawyers and tax accountants.

and assorted "know it all" types of course

39 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

... the clever farang will just claim he forget to file the tax return (for the last few years), but the TRD comes to the conclusion it was obvious an attempt for tax evasion ... 

penalties for tax evasion can be harsh, especially if you transfer serious money into thailand, which group you probably don't belong to ... 

 

 

You've no idea about my circumstances. One of my kids studies in the UK, paying £14,000 a year as a foreign student,despite being British, but that's another story.

I'm very careful about tax avoidance, or r as there my accountant, who happens to be my daughter, is.

29 minutes ago, JimmyTobacco said:

However, the gift cannot be used for your benefit and not to evade taxes. Anyhow, if your gift is somehow not liable for Thai tax, it might be liable for UK tax.

Says who? 

 

6 minutes ago, Bday Prang said:

if you must read my posts read them all,  i have had no income since 2023  I do not owe any tax  it is      impossible for me to evade paying what I do not owe    .   Its clear to all  which group you belong to

 

please tell me to what group i belong to, not only you seems to know but all others as well ... but i really like to know this ... 

 

i got the impression you're a very knowledged and trustful person, but maybe i am wrong again ... 

7 minutes ago, JimCM said:

You've no idea about my circumstances. One of my kids studies in the UK, paying £14,000 a year as a foreign student,despite being British, but that's another story.

I'm very careful about tax avoidance, or r as there my accountant, who happens to be my daughter, is.

apologies, I misunderstood ...

because i thought this topic is about remitted money to thailand, not the other way round ...😄

11 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

please tell me to what group i belong to, not only you seems to know but all others as well ... but i really like to know this ... 

 

i got the impression you're a very knowledged and trustful person, but maybe i am wrong again ... 

you are completely wrong ....again  if i or anybody else was to tell you which group you belong to   suspensions and posting bans would ensue

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

... the clever farang will just claim he forget to file the tax return (for the last few years), but the TRD comes to the conclusion it was obvious an attempt for tax evasion ... 

penalties for tax evasion can be harsh, especially if you transfer serious money into thailand, which group you probably don't belong to ... 

 

 

Honestly - you worry too much.  💊 Best to take a chill pill.  I haven't filed since I stopped working here, so the only conclusion (a valid one) is that I don't own them any taxes - in fact - they owe me refunds.  

5 hours ago, JimCM said:

If enacted, the amendment would overturn the current Thai tax rule that took effect on 1 January 2024.

 

Yeah, that didn't happen, the PM was fired and the government changed and just like that this idea disappeared.

 

7 hours ago, soalbundy said:

Not a case of panic, just following the law, I've seen in the past what playing around with the tax office can do to ones finances while in Germany, I've seen a colleague having to take out a second mortgage on his house to pay a tax bill on hidden extra earnings, it can take years before they find out and then you get slammed with  tax increased by 300% going back years into the past. Tax avoidance is a criminal offence, not a good idea for a foreigner to indulge in.

I think you mean "tax evasion" is a criminal offence.  "Tax avoidance" is a legal method to avoid tax.

4 hours ago, meauwnam said:

This also applies to me. I'm Dutch, and on November 21st this year, a new tax treaty was signed at the Dutch embassy in Bangkok. This means that Dutch citizens living in Thailand don't have to pay taxes on their pensions in Thailand, but they do have to file a tax return in Thailand. The pension is taxed in the Netherlands. Thai citizens living in the Netherlands are taxed in Thailand, and no longer in the Netherlands. For Dutch citizens, it depends on whether you are still liable for tax in the Netherlands or not. Each country has made separate agreements with Thailand.

Maybe you don't know yet but probably it will take effect earliest at 1 Jan 2027... At this moment it is not clear yet. Anyway if you pay tax in Thailand now you can claim your tax which is being paid in the Netherlands back.If you don't have a too high income you will get more back than paying here

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

you are completely wrong ....again  if i or anybody else was to tell you which group you belong to   suspensions and posting bans would ensue

i think you are confusing me with someone else ...

 

anyway, with this whole tax topic, everyone has to decide for themselves what they want to do 

..

1 hour ago, JimCM said:

I'm very careful about tax avoidance, or r as there my accountant, who happens to be my daughter, is.

in english please

1 hour ago, Bday Prang said:

and assorted "know it all" types of course

that would be you ... sorry, couldn't resist