5 hours ago, MikeandDow said:

think i know what standards are!! I work in a professional mechanical construction industry as a Quality Assurance Manager for over 30 years been living in Thailand for 25 of those years i have worked all over asia, so you know corruption is part of the thai culture and i know you dont know the meaning of the word "standars" in construction industry it is totally diffrent meaning to what you mean, you seem to be a very Omniscience person

...and like so many expats, "I think I know what standards are!!" – still don't get it; just don't think. Oil and construction workers are all the same – trained to do one job and incapable of thinking outside that – and also really poor comprehension skills – no wonder these cranes keep falling down. call themsleves "engineers" when in reality they are just mechanics.

8 hours ago, kwilco said:

...and like so many expats, "I think I know what standards are!!" – still don't get it; just don't think. Oil and construction workers are all the same – trained to do one job and incapable of thinking outside that – and also really poor comprehension skills – no wonder these cranes keep falling down. call themsleves "engineers" when in reality they are just mechanics.

I worked in construction both as a employee and as a licensed contractor. Every company I worked for emphasized safety. So I think your assessment is not accurate. Any company in the U.S. with the track record such as Sino-Thai would soon be out of business as no one would be willing to insure them and general liability insurance coverage is mandatory.

A review of safety standards? So that means I won't be seeing construction workers wearing flip flops anymore?

9 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

I worked in construction both as a employee and as a licensed contractor. Every company I worked for emphasized safety. So I think your assessment is not accurate. Any company in the U.S. with the track record such as Sino-Thai would soon be out of business as no one would be willing to insure them and general liability insurance coverage is mandatory.

This response rather proves the point — it misses the context entirely.

This discussion is not about the United States, nor about whether some companies say they prioritise safety. It is about how civil engineering actually operates in Thailand, within its regulatory, legal, and cultural environment.

Invoking “any US company” is a category error. The reason a Sino-Thai–equivalent could not survive in the US is precisely because the US has:

Mandatory insurance enforcement, independent regulators, effective inspections, and a strong litigation culture - Thailand does not.

We are talking about Italian-Thai Development (ITD) — a Thai company (there has been no Italian involvement for many years) with a long and well-documented history of serious safety failures. Chinese state firms such as China Railway Engineering Corporation (CREC) routinely partner with ITD because it is an established local vehicle that knows how to navigate Thai procurement, political patronage, and weak enforcement — not because it represents best practice.

Saying “every company I worked for emphasised safety” is anecdote, not analysis. Safety briefings, posters, and policies mean very little when corners are cut to meet political deadlines, subcontracting chains diffuse responsibility, inspectors lack independence, criminal liability is rare, civil litigation is effectively inaccessible

And yes, US companies have historically fallen short on engineering and safety standards — the difference is consequences.  Firstly in the US they are noticed, then any subsequent failure triggers lawsuits, prosecutions, insurance withdrawal, and corporate collapse. In Thailand, it usually triggers silence, scapegoats, and business as usual.

So the issue is not whether safety is talked about.
It is whether the system enforces it.

In Thailand, it plainly does not.

It’s always amusing to hear expats say “health and safety”.

Normally it’s delivered with an eye-roll — a punchline, a bit of nanny-state theatre to be mocked whenever it delays a project or costs a baht.

Then something collapses and people die.

Suddenly the same voices discover safety, standards, and moral clarity. Out come the lectures, the comparisons with “back home”, and the unmistakable holier-than-thou tone — all topped off with a burst of virtue signalling so intense you’d think they’d spent their careers enforcing regulations rather than sneering at them.

Safety, it seems, is optional until there’s a disaster and an opportunity to feel superior.

This isn’t principled concern for engineering or workers. It’s selective outrage, retroactive wisdom, and moral posturing — regulation mocked in advance, demanded after the bodies are counted, and always weaponised to talk down to Thais.

If nothing else, it’s a remarkably consistent performance.

who cares if you have taught in business and university dont see how that is relevent to the topic !! now comes the insults !! if this is all you got you are in a sorry state

2 hours ago, blaze master said:

when most of what is discussed is basic knowledge.

Next you'll be claiming "common sense" – many of the threads here have no basic knowledge at all; unfortunately, they are so limited they have mistaken misinformation as basic knowledge, and cognitive dissonance prevents them from getting any further.

As said, it’s always amusing to hear expats say “health and safety”. It's also frustrating to see Dunning-Kruger syndrome manifest itself everywhere...

Normally it’s delivered with an eye-roll — a punchline, a bit of nanny-state theatre to be mocked whenever it delays a project or costs a baht.

Then something collapses and people die.

Suddenly the same voices discover safety, standards, and moral clarity. Out come the lectures, the comparisons with “back home”, and the unmistakable holier-than-thou tone — all topped off with a burst of virtue signalling so intense you’d think they’d spent their careers enforcing regulations rather than sneering at them.

Safety, it seems, is optional until there’s a disaster and an opportunity to feel superior.

This isn’t principled concern for engineering or workers. It’s selective outrage, retroactive wisdom, and moral posturing — regulation mocked in advance, demanded after the bodies are counted, and always weaponised to talk down to Thais.

If nothing else, it’s a remarkably consistent and repetitive performance...

It’s fairly clear you have little understanding of sinam jai or sang khatan and how fundamental those concepts are to Thai life and decision-making.

You talk about “corruption” as if it were a neat, black-and-white explanation, stripped of cultural context, nuance, and lived reality.

That kind of analysis may feel satisfying — but it explains very little.

2 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It's relevant because I have firsthand experience of how government offices in Thailand work and intelligent conversations with educated Thai people, an in-depth understanding of Thai culture and not someone's ex-bargirl wife as a source of information.

laughable braggart, you are embarrassing yourself now 😄

35 minutes ago, kwilco said:

It’s fairly clear you have little understanding of sinam jai or sang khatan and how fundamental those concepts are to Thai life and decision-making.

There you go again with the know it all attitude. We get it you know more and understand more than everyone else.

42 minutes ago, kwilco said:

You would care because you just don't understand - It's relevant because I have firsthand experience of how government offices in Thailand work and intelligent conversations with educated Thai people, an in-depth understanding of Thai culture and not someone's ex-bargirl wife as a source of information. (please don't say your wife was a cashier!)

You seem to think you're the only one with experience working wifh government officials or high so thai in Thailand. Goes right back to my original point.

Inflammatory posts and replies containing personal insults have been removed:

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_System

It is fair to assume that Sir Gordon Wu is sleeping extremely well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Wu

15 hours ago, blaze master said:

There you go again with the know it all attitude. We get it you know more and understand more than everyone else.

You seem to think you're the only one with experience working wifh government officials or high so thai in Thailand. Goes right back to my original point.

What this guy is talking about is rubish!! Sinnamjai is far from unique to Thailand it is the act of gift giving it used to be if you wanted better serve for example you would give a gift this is now against goverment policy as it is seen as corruption, he also states corupption is not black or white very strange as corruption is black and white, you take a bribe or you dont, this guy is arrogant and condescending