8 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There is plenty of hate coming from you.

Sorry, but I really don't have the bandwidth to go over things point by point with every extremist "anti-Zionist" that actually believes only their extremist Israel demonizing historical narrative has merit that haunts this forum.

I have always asserted that there are credible narratives from both sides.

I can offer this video that you will of course vehemently reject but hopefully will be illuminating to others.

Well, if he's been featured on Charlie Kirk, he must be right, or at least wing, eh. Is this kid even Jewish. He calls the attack on Golder's Green a case of Jew-hatred when it was, in reality, only a lone nutter and nothing to do with Jews.

Do I demonise Israel, <deleted> A. Do I damn Israelis, only to the extent that they support Israel's wars. Compromise, reconciliation. They fail to see the 'other side' as human with the same frail emotions common to all of us.

It ain't about Jews, Jing. Yeah, there's antisemitism. Don't know what to do about that. Just glad it's not coming from me.

1 minute ago, unblocktheplanet said:

Well, if he's been featured on Charlie Kirk, he must be right, or at least wing, eh. Is this kid even Jewish. He calls the attack on Golder's Green a case of Jew-hatred when it was, in reality, only a lone nutter and nothing to do with Jews.

Do I demonise Israel, <deleted> A. Do I damn Israelis, only to the extent that they support Israel's wars. Compromise, reconciliation. They fail to see the 'other side' as human with the same frail emotions common to all of us.

It ain't about Jews, Jing. Yeah, there's antisemitism. Don't know what to do about that. Just glad it's not coming from me.

I see it from you but in a weird flavor.

You expect Jews and also the one tiny Jewish state to behave at a higher moral standard than everyone else. Jews are human not super human. As with any people there is good and bad..

Jews often ask if something or someone is good for the Jews.

Epstein bad.

Einstein good.

React to the specific points on Israel and Zionism rather than just dismissing what he says out of hand just because of a wing label.

No he's not a Jew. You would have known that if you actually had watched it. Stay classy.

Edited May 16May 16 by Jingthing

5 hours ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Well rehearsed, right-wing, Israel is all good, and wants Rubio for POTUS, just goes to prove there is no god.

Israel is not all good or all bad.

11 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

Resolution of international conflicts often results in huge disruptions for civilian populations. That's happened countless times throughout history.

An estimated 12 million to 20 million people were displaced by the population transfers caused by the partition of India and Pakistan. Between 200,000 and two million people lost their lives in the clashes between Hindus and Muslims.

It was a terrible tragedy, but also the inevitable outcome of dividing a country along religious lines. Not partitioning India would have led to total civil war and a much higher casualty count. There were no violence-free solutions; only bad solutions and even worse ones.

Countless millions in Asia and Europe were displaced in the wake of WWII. It's naive to think the Arab inhabitants of Mandatory Palestine would escape this fallout from WWII, especially when the Arab leader of Palestine had sided so strongly with the Nazis.

The world's Jews, with the focus on displaced survivors of the Holocaust, needed a homeland that would serve as a haven. Giving Jews part of Mandatory Palestine was the best and most practical solution at the time, even if tens of thousands of Arabs had to give up their homes.

Maybe it wasn't fair but it was necessary. The Arabs in Mandatory Palestinian were essentially generic Arabs who could have lived almost anywhere in North Africa. They and their descendants would have had much better lives if they had accepted the UN partition plan or moved elsewhere.

Their futile attempt to cling to land in Palestine led to misery and often death for Arabs who consider themselves Palestine. For close to 80 years, Palestinian Arabs have pursued a totally unrealistic goal of living in or returning to Palestine under Arab control.

Ain't gonna happen. When the Arabs recognize Israel as the homeland of the world's Jews and accept it's here to stay, a lasting peace can be achieved in the Middle East.

Jews did need a haven, Ev, and it’s obvious they still don’t have one.

I’ve studied India’s partition and think, ultimately, Gandhi was right, that countries don’t thrive when divided by religion. Look at the intolerance of the Hindutva today. See below.

Perhaps there would have been civil war started by Hindus if Jinnah had become India’s first PM. But Pakistan didn’t do any better, to wit, Bangladesh.

When Israel (and Israeli Jews in general) recognises that Palestinians are human beings with human rights is the most likely first step to peace. Perhaps in time, Palestinians and other Middle Eastern countries will see that Israel is trying its best to be civilised to its neighbours and should be recognised for that.

BTW, I must correct myself. I have written elsewhere that Jews do not deserve a homeland. If Israel is that homeland, their course must be peaceful coexistence. Otherwise, why have a homeland at all? Hatfields and McCoys for over 100 years is quite enough.

Displacement causes immense human suffering. But yes, it is inevitable. However, we both know the West Bank is outright theft. What do we do about that?

Mahatma Gandhi vehemently opposed the partition of India because he viewed the country as an indivisible, pluralistic nation where Hindus and Muslims shared a common history, heritage, and destiny. He believed that dividing the nation based on religion contradicted his core principles and would inevitably lead to unprecedented bloodshed. [1, 2, 3, 4]

His opposition to the division was deeply rooted in several core beliefs:

• Composite Nationalism: Gandhi championed a vision of India where religion was a personal matter rather than a political boundary. He often stated that "Hindus and Muslims were sons of the same soil" and argued that a nation's identity should be based on shared cultural experiences rather than faith.

• Rejection of the Two-Nation Theory: He fundamentally rejected the premise—pushed by the All India Muslim League—that Hindus and Muslims were two separate nations. He viewed the concept of a religious partition as a "falsehood" and an inherently evil principle that denied centuries of peaceful coexistence.

• Fear of Mass Violence: Gandhi correctly anticipated that drawing a political border along communal lines would trigger massive population transfers, displacement, and horrific sectarian violence. He foresaw that such a division would permanently sour the relations between the two new countries.

• A Struggle for Non-Violence: He believed the freedom movement was meant to be a test of peaceful coexistence. He feared that accepting a violent, religion-based split would signal the failure of non-violence in the region. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]

In a desperate bid to prevent the split and avoid communal bloodshed, Gandhi went so far as to suggest offering the position of Prime Minister of a united India to Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Ultimately, despite his lifelong efforts to maintain a unified country, he acquiesced to the Mountbatten Plan only when it became clear that civil war was the only alternative.

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I see it from you but in a weird flavor.

You expect Jews and also the one tiny Jewish state to behave at a higher moral standard than everyone else. Jews are human not super human. As with any people there is good and bad..

Jews often ask if something or someone is good for the Jews.

Epstein bad.

Einstein good.

React to the specific points on Israel and Zionism rather than just dismissing what he says out of hand just because of a wing label.

No he's not a Jew. You would have known that if you actually had watched it. Stay classy.

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I see it from you but in a weird flavor.

You expect Jews and also the one tiny Jewish state to behave at a higher moral standard than everyone else. Jews are human not super human. As with any people there is good and bad..

Jews often ask if something or someone is good for the Jews.

Epstein bad.

Einstein good.

React to the specific points on Israel and Zionism rather than just dismissing what he says out of hand just because of a wing label.

No he's not a Jew. You would have known that if you actually had watched it. Stay classy.

You're right. I flipped it off after the presenter stated the kid have been on Charlie Kirk. If Charlie Kirk agrees with him, well, that says it all for me.

I read really fast. Watching YouTube uses up way too much time.

2 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

You're right. I flipped it off after the presenter stated the kid have been on Charlie Kirk. If Charlie Kirk agrees with him, well, that says it all for me.

I read really fast. Watching YouTube uses up way too much time.

So you have zero credibility commenting on what he said.

4 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Its more likely those mushrooms making you laught

God is a mushroom, Nicky-boy!

If you've been following this interesting discussion as closely as I have, you'll have notice there is, of course, agreement and disagreement. But I'm not seeing as much shouting, as much rancour or anger or disrespect. Good work! If even we can make it work, maybe even Israel can.

On 5/16/2026 at 1:09 AM, Evil Penevil said:

The world's Jews, with the focus on displaced survivors of the Holocaust, needed a homeland that would serve as a haven. Giving Jews part of Mandatory Palestine was the best and most practical solution at the time, even if tens of thousands of Arabs had to give up their homes.

Thats a very Jewish way to see the problem.

That part of mandatory Palestine was not "given" to them as you cannot give what you don´t own.

Put yourself in the position of a Palestinian. You live there for countless generations, many of them under Ottoman rule, who are foreigners to you despite being Muslim.

Now the Brits come and promise to turn the land you have been living on into your own independent state if you help them fight the Ottomans, which you do and pay with blood for it.

And what happens next? Not only do you not get your own state as promised, no, they even cut out the most part of your land and give it to the Jews.

On 5/16/2026 at 1:09 AM, Evil Penevil said:

Maybe it wasn't fair but it was necessary. The Arabs in Mandatory Palestinian were essentially generic Arabs who could have lived almost anywhere in North Africa. They and their descendants would have had much better lives if they had accepted the UN partition plan or moved elsewhere.

As you surely know DNA tests have proven that Palestinians have way more Levantine DNA than Israelis and are the native people of the area, so please stop repeating that Zionist narrative.

On 5/16/2026 at 1:09 AM, Evil Penevil said:

Their futile attempt to cling to land in Palestine led to misery and often death for Arabs who consider themselves Palestine. For close to 80 years, Palestinian Arabs have pursued a totally unrealistic goal of living in or returning to Palestine under Arab control.

That's guilt shifting. The attempt of the lawful land owners to keep their land led to the thieves who consider themselves native massacring them. What you call "unrealistic" is more likely "according to international law"

5 hours ago, Somjot said:

Thats a very Jewish way to see the problem.

That part of mandatory Palestine was not "given" to them as you cannot give what you don´t own.

Put yourself in the position of a Palestinian. You live there for countless generations, many of them under Ottoman rule, who are foreigners to you despite being Muslim.

Now the Brits come and promise to turn the land you have been living on into your own independent state if you help them fight the Ottomans, which you do and pay with blood for it.

And what happens next? Not only do you not get your own state as promised, no, they even cut out the most part of your land and give it to the Jews.

As you surely know DNA tests have proven that Palestinians have way more Levantine DNA than Israelis and are the native people of the area, so please stop repeating that Zionist narrative.

That's guilt shifting. The attempt of the lawful land owners to keep their land led to the thieves who consider themselves native massacring them. What you call "unrealistic" is more likely "according to international law"

To respond to the above post.

Saying something is a very Jewish way to see the problem is a very racist Jew hating way to describe things.

Which leads to his DNA arguments.

What he has presented is vile twisted racist Jew hating PROPAGANDA -- complete distortions of oversimplification of a very complex picture among both the different major ethnic groups of Jewish people and also the Arabs who happened to be in the general region, some of course with very old roots and others recent migrants from other countries such as Egypt.

The ideology of political Zionism, which is the core of the foundation of the state of Israel does see Jews as a people, but not in a sense of DNA acid tests. That's something a Nazi or American fascist eugenicist might be attracted to,

The FACT is that there is zero doubt of the ancient connection between Israel and the Jewish people. You can argue whether that justified the founding of Israel but the founding of Israel happened and the Jews aren't going to just leave.

So deal with the real current reality instead of endless black hole relitigatiing saying Israel should hav never happened. Unless you really have no interest in an acceptable peaceful solution for both sides -- and instead just want to convert more people into extremist racist Jew hating POVs.

I have always said both sides have credible and competing narratives.

The racist Jew haters act like there is no credible Zionist narrative. They are wrong.

Edited May 17May 17 by Jingthing

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To respond to the above post.

Saying something is a very Jewish way to see the problem is a very racist Jew hating way to describe things.

Which leads to his DNA arguments.

What he has presented is vile twisted racist Jew hating PROPAGANDA -- complete distortions of oversimplification of a very complex picture among both the different major ethnic groups of Jewish people and also the Arabs who happened to be in the general region, some of course with very old roots and others recent migrants from other countries such as Egypt.

The ideology of political Zionism, which is the core of the foundation of the state of Israel does see Jews as a people, but not in a sense of DNA acid tests. That's something a Nazi or American fascist eugenicist might be attracted to,

The FACT is that there is zero doubt of the ancient connection between Israel and the Jewish people. You can argue whether that justified the founding of Israel but the founding of Israel happened and the Jews aren't going to just leave.

So deal with the real current reality instead of endless black hole relitigatiing saying Israel should hav never happened. Unless you really have no interest in an acceptable peaceful solution for both sides -- and instead just want to convert more people into extremist racist Jew hating POVs.

I have always said both sides have credible and competing narratives.

The racist Jew haters act like there is no credible Zionist narrative. They are wrong.

Enough of this BS.

Under international law, selling or transferring property in occupied territories is illegal. The framework governing this issue is outlined under the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations.

The Law of Occupation: Under international humanitarian law, an occupying power is considered only a temporary administrator of the occupied territory, not the sovereign. It is strictly forbidden from making permanent changes to the land, confiscating private property, or transferring its own civilian population into the occupied territory.

The Status of Settlements: Settlements established by an occupying power in occupied territories are considered a serious breach of international law. Consequently, the real estate transactions or sales associated with these settlements are broadly considered invalid and unlawful.

Individual Criminal Responsibility: According to bodies like the UN and the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the transfer of an occupying power's population into occupied land and the extensive appropriation of property can constitute war crimes under the Rome Statute.

18 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Enough of this BS.

Under international law, selling or transferring property in occupied territories is illegal. The framework governing this issue is outlined under the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations.

The Law of Occupation: Under international humanitarian law, an occupying power is considered only a temporary administrator of the occupied territory, not the sovereign. It is strictly forbidden from making permanent changes to the land, confiscating private property, or transferring its own civilian population into the occupied territory.

The Status of Settlements: Settlements established by an occupying power in occupied territories are considered a serious breach of international law. Consequently, the real estate transactions or sales associated with these settlements are broadly considered invalid and unlawful.

Individual Criminal Responsibility: According to bodies like the UN and the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the transfer of an occupying power's population into occupied land and the extensive appropriation of property can constitute war crimes under the Rome Statute.

Spot on explanation of the legal position.

What has America come to?

This is beyond bizarre... selling West Bank land to Jews only?

What will be next on the block, the Gaza Riviera, Crown Jewel of Eretz Israel?

34 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Enough of this BS.

Under international law, selling or transferring property in occupied territories is illegal. The framework governing this issue is outlined under the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations.

Whether its occupied territories or not is disputed . The Israeli government and some legal scholars argue the term "occupied" does not apply legally because the territory was not under the recognized sovereignty of another state prior to 1967

42 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Enough of this BS.

Under international law, selling or transferring property in occupied territories is illegal. The framework governing this issue is outlined under the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations.

The Law of Occupation: Under international humanitarian law, an occupying power is considered only a temporary administrator of the occupied territory, not the sovereign. It is strictly forbidden from making permanent changes to the land, confiscating private property, or transferring its own civilian population into the occupied territory.

The Status of Settlements: Settlements established by an occupying power in occupied territories are considered a serious breach of international law. Consequently, the real estate transactions or sales associated with these settlements are broadly considered invalid and unlawful.

Individual Criminal Responsibility: According to bodies like the UN and the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the transfer of an occupying power's population into occupied land and the extensive appropriation of property can constitute war crimes under the Rome Statute.

Enough of your Straw Man Garbage. SO SLEAZY.

You know perfectly well that my post was responding to a racist Jew hating narrative suggesting Israel shouldn't exist at all.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Enough of your Straw Man Garbage. SO SLEAZY.

You know perfectly well that my post was responding to a racist Jew hating narrative suggesting Israel shouldn't exist at all.

Enough of the trash talk

Just now, JBChiangRai said:

Enough of the trash talk

Stay classy. I'm sure it takes a lot of energy to keep the flame going of Israel demonization and worse. Not interested in solutions. Helping to make a hopeless situation even more hopeless. Good work!

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

To respond to the above post.

Saying something is a very Jewish way to see the problem is a very racist Jew hating way to describe things.

Which leads to his DNA arguments.

What he has presented is vile twisted racist Jew hating PROPAGANDA -- complete distortions of oversimplification of a very complex picture among both the different major ethnic groups of Jewish people and also the Arabs who happened to be in the general region, some of course with very old roots and others recent migrants from other countries such as Egypt.

The ideology of political Zionism, which is the core of the foundation of the state of Israel does see Jews as a people, but not in a sense of DNA acid tests. That's something a Nazi or American fascist eugenicist might be attracted to,

The FACT is that there is zero doubt of the ancient connection between Israel and the Jewish people. You can argue whether that justified the founding of Israel but the founding of Israel happened and the Jews aren't going to just leave.

So deal with the real current reality instead of endless black hole relitigatiing saying Israel should hav never happened. Unless you really have no interest in an acceptable peaceful solution for both sides -- and instead just want to convert more people into extremist racist Jew hating POVs.

I have always said both sides have credible and competing narratives.

The racist Jew haters act like there is no credible Zionist narrative. They are wrong.

I oppose DNA tests. A fool's way of determining who belongs where. We should all move back to Africa, eh?

However, the "Zionist narrative" is getting rid of as many Arabs as possible. How can anyone justify that, Jing.

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

The FACT is that there is zero doubt of the ancient connection between Israel and the Jewish people. You can argue whether that justified the founding of Israel but the founding of Israel happened and the Jews aren't going to just leave.

Connection to a land that they abandoned.

Connection to a land that Palestinians settled in.

And situation made more complex due to Biblical belief that God promised the land ONLY to the Jews.

14 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

I oppose DNA tests. A fool's way of determining who belongs where. We should all move back to Africa, eh?

However, the "Zionist narrative" is getting rid of as many Arabs as possible. How can anyone justify that, Jing.

Crap.

The Zionist narrative is to have a national homeland for the Jewish people where Jewish people could have political self determination as a very rational response to thousands of years of persecution in the diaspora.

But no, Jews can't have that.

Arabs, Muslims, Japanese, etc. etc. can.

But not Jews.

ONLY not Jews.

1 hour ago, save the frogs said:

Connection to a land that they abandoned.

Connection to a land that Palestinians settled in.

And situation made more complex due to Biblical belief that God promised the land ONLY to the Jews.

@Jingthing doesn’t believe that, he’s an atheist Jew.

And I do have a solution to the problem but Israel would never accept it.

The state of Israel’s government becomes entirely secular with government seats allocated 50% to Jews and 50% to Palestinians. Joint Prime Ministers and if they can’t agree, they are both dismissed and replaced. If the government is hung along Jew/Arab lines they are all dismissed and ineligible to stand for one more period.

All citizens being equal.

Whilst we’re at it, let’s rename it Palestine.

Edited May 17May 17 by JBChiangRai

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

And I do have a solution to the problem but Israel would never accept it.

Yeah, good luck.

Meanwhile, some good news and some hope :

Bernie Sanders tries to block support for Israel - lost 40 to 59 vote

US is split. UK, Germany still support

More and more countries will stop siding with Israel.

Orban in Hungary was pro-Israel. The new guy said he will arrest Netanyahu if he goes to Hungary.

"Change happens slowly, and then all at once." -- Hemingway

2 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

Yeah, good luck.

Meanwhile, some good news and some hope :

Bernie Sanders tries to block support for Israel - lost 40 to 59 vote

US is split. UK, Germany still support

More and more countries will stop siding with Israel.

Orban in Hungary was pro-Israel. The new guy said he will arrest Netanyahu if he goes to Hungary.

"Change happens slowly, and then all at once." -- Hemingway

Israel came 2 nd in the Eurovision song contest

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

very rational response to thousands of years of persecution in the diaspora.

The "persecution" narrative is sketchy.

One narrative is a lot of Jews left current day Palestine because it was a backwater and went on to PROSPER ($$$) in other areas.

Persecution and anti-semitism may both be abused mind control techniques to gain moral high ground.

Edited May 17May 17 by save the frogs

23 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

@Jingthing doesn’t believe that, he’s an atheist Jew.

And I do have a solution to the problem but Israel would never accept it.

The state of Israel’s government becomes entirely secular with government seats allocated 50% to Jews and 50% to Palestinians. Joint Prime Ministers and if they can’t agree, they are both dismissed and replaced. If the government is hung along Jew/Arab lines they are all dismissed and ineligible to stand for one more period.

All citizens being equal.

Whilst we’re at it, let’s rename it Palestine.

Yeah that gonna happen.

I think you're thinking of Cloud Cuckooland not Israel/Palestine.

27 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

The "persecution" narrative is sketchy.

One narrative is a lot of Jews left current day Palestine because it was a backwater and went on to PROSPER ($$$) in other areas.

Persecution and anti-semitism may both be abused mind control techniques to gain moral high ground.

Your racist Jew hating and denial rhetoric is vile.

Yeah the streets were paved with gold in the Eastern European ghettos.

Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition was in the Jew's imagination.

You know what's really sketchy? The willfully ignorant racist Jew hatred infecting this forum and the world.

Edited May 17May 17 by Jingthing

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your racist Jew hating and denial rhetoric is vile.

Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition was in the Jew's imagination.

There's different interpretations of how history played out.

Not saying my version is accurate, but neither should I blindly believe your version of history.

And constantly attacking people of being jew haters is under-handed.

I am trying to remain objective about the situation, as are many people on here.

No one even agrees on what just transpired with Trump's visit to China. You think you have the absolute final word on what happened 2000 years ago? What a joke.

Edited May 17May 17 by save the frogs

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Your racist Jew hating and denial rhetoric is vile.

Yeah the streets were paved with gold in the Eastern European ghettos.

Yeah, the Spanish Inquisition was in the Jew's imagination.

You know what's really sketchy? The willfully ignorant racist Jew hatred infecting this forum and the world.

Stop the trash talk

35 minutes ago, save the frogs said:

One narrative is a lot of Jews left current day Palestine because it was a backwater and went on to PROSPER ($$$) in other areas.

"Current day...................." where :)

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

Stop the trash talk

By saying that you are defending and siding with the ignorant racist Jew hating rhetoric I was replying to.

Quelle surprise.