The jews are very smart in having pushed in Trump and America in their war of Israel vs Iran and Lebanon.

1 minute ago, SingAPorn said:

The jews are very smart in having pushed in Trump and America in their war of Israel vs Iran and Lebanon.

Not the Jews.

Netanyahu.and Trump had the power to say no.

He could have and should have said no but Trump is a moron.

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Don't think for one second that I didn't notice that you didn't answer my question regarding ethnicity. You are not required to answer my question, but it should be well noted that you are evading.

You are usually quite a reasonable guy, who I often agree with. This time you are off base. You seem to just be baiting me. Ethnicity? A Russian, and Austrian Jew. Does my family consider ourselves Russian? No. A century makes a difference.

1 hour ago, Nick Carter icp said:

A Black man cannot change the colour of his skin , you can stop being Jew by converting to another Religion .

Why don't you do so ?

Michael Jackson changed his color. I have no need to convert. Zero. Do you?

4 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You are usually quite a reasonable guy, who I often agree with. This time you are off base. You seem to just be baiting me. Ethnicity? A Russian, and Austrian Jew. Does my family consider ourselves Russian? No. A century makes a difference.

Don't act dumb.

I made it very clear what I was referring to and you dodged it.

That's fine but again don't act dumb.

If I.was baiting you you'd know it.

I fully respect you're right to evade my question.

It can be a sensitive personal matter.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Israel demonizers would like to see Israel wiped out such as the fashionable bozo here who says Jews don't deserve" a country. 50 Muslim ones no problem. One tiny Jewish one. Not deserved

I'm not sure to which AN Bozo you are referring-

there are several to choose from- but after 2,000 years of discrimination and oppression, Jews were among the groups most deserving of their own country. The Holocaust made clear to the world the need for a Jewish homeland and majority Jewish state.

Jews can't rely on other countries to defend them, they have to do it themselves. That's why Israel is so necessary.

The Arab world has an estimated population of 450-500 million, compared to 7.2 million Jews in Israel. Worldwide, there are 17.7 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. In terms of landmass, Israel occupies about 0.1% pf the Middle East.

The Arab world would have saved itself a lot of misery if it had just accepted the existence of this tiny country and allowed Israel's Jews to live in peace.

6 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

I'm not sure to which AN Bozo you are referring-

there are several to choose from- but after 2,000 years of discrimination and oppression, Jews were among the groups most deserving of their own country. The Holocaust made clear to the world the need for a Jewish homeland and majority Jewish state.

Jews can't rely on other countries to defend them, they have to do it themselves. That's why Israel is so necessary.

The Arab world has an estimated population of 450-500 million, compared to 7.2 million Jews in Israel. Worldwide, there are 17.7 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. In terms of landmass, Israel occupies about 0.1% pf the Middle East.

The Arab world would have saved itself a lot of misery if it had just accepted the existence of this tiny country and allowed Israel's Jews to live in peace.

Very much so.

Imagine if the Arab world hadn't gone to war against the Jews in 1948.

Both the Jews and the Arabs would have been much better off in so many ways.

Yes Israel became a global leader in defense tech out of survival necessity just as Ukraine is now.

That creative energy and genius potential could have been directed into much more productive directions such as more cures for cancer.

In partnership and peace with the nearby Arabs who I've noticed share a love of education with Jews, it could have been almost land of milk and honey time there.

Yes Arabs and Jews are indeed cousins. Without visible clothing markers etc. it's often difficult to tell the difference. But unfortunately, not usually kissing cousins.

But no.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

17 minutes ago, Evil Penevil said:

The Holocaust made clear to the world the need for a Jewish homeland and majority Jewish state.

But not by taking it away from someone else.

You can never legitimize that, it’s always going to be a moral crime.

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

But not by taking it away from someone else.

You can never legitimize that, it’s always going to be a moral crime.

It wasn't the black and white Jews evil Arabs angels situation as you're painting in.

The early Zionist settlers came in and BOUGHT the land from willing Arab buyers.

Arabs enjoyed a booming economy in the region and there was a lot of Arab migration to mandate Palestine from other places such as Egypt. This narrative of all the Palestinian Arabs living there for centuries is a crock.

Again, there are credible narratives on both sides.

There will never be a peaceful solution if that isn't respected.

Of course Palestinian Arab as a separate identity from just Arabs for political reasons was a later creation.

That did happen, and that now needs to be respected but the full story of the history is relevant as well.

People who say there is no such thing as Palestinians are ignoring that Palestinians think there is such a thing and they have a right to their identity as they see it.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

48 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

You are usually quite a reasonable guy, who I often agree with. This time you are off base. You seem to just be baiting me. Ethnicity? A Russian, and Austrian Jew. Does my family consider ourselves Russian? No. A century makes a difference.

I will respond again.

It's clear that you're offended.

I'm very sorry if this line of discussion isn't comfortable for you.

I thought it was a natural question based on what you posted before.

Be clear I am not trying to apply any kind of pressure whatsoever towards you about this.

Whatever you said can stand as your response and that's OK by me.

Peace.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

It wasn't the black and white Jews evil Arabs angels situation as you're painting in.

The early Zionist settlers came in and BOUGHT the land from willing Arab buyers.

Arabs enjoyed a booming economy in the region and there was a lot of Arab migration to mandate Palestine from other places such as Egypt. This narrative of all the Palestinian Arabs living there for centuries is a crock.

Again, there are credible narratives on both sides.

There will never be a peaceful solution if that isn't respected.

Of course Palestinian Arab as a separate identity from just Arabs for political reasons was a later creation.

That did happen, and that now needs to be respected but the full story of the history is relevant as well.

People who say there is no such thing as Palestinians are ignoring that Palestinians think there is such a thing and they have a right to their identity as they see it.

You’re trying to whitewash it because a very few settlers bought their land.

Where do the majority of Palestinians in Gaza originally come from in Israel?

Why are they there now?

Their land was stolen.

1 minute ago, JBChiangRai said:

You’re trying to whitewash it because a very few settlers bought their land.

Where do the majority of Palestinians in Gaza originally come from in Israel?

Why are they there now?

Their land was stolen.

It wasn't just a few.

It was the core of the Zionist pioneer movement.

Again you ignore the ENTIRE Arab world attacked Israel in 1948.

If they had won, no Israel.

But they lost so there were consquences.

What annoys me about you is a complete lack of willingness to consider that this really a case where there are credible narratives on both sides.

You seem to want peace.

With your attitude, imposssible.

Also not whitewash.

Jews aren't white.

I know the Israeli demonizers like to play act as if the Zionists were white colonists the same as Belgians in Africa. They weren't colonists at all for any country.

Of course you're not required to be pro Zionist.

But it's intellectually dishonest to lack respect and understanding of why the Zionist ideology developed which was quite rational and why it still lives to this day.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Michael Jackson changed his color. I have no need to convert. Zero. Do you?

You know what I mean .

MJ didn't actully change from being Black man, he had a skin disease

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

Ethnicity? A Russian, and Austrian Jew. Does my family consider ourselves Russian? No. A century makes a difference.

So , your White ancestors went to Brown mans land (America) , killed most of the locals and stole their land .

At least Israeli Jews have an historic connection to the land of Israel , you dont have an historic connection to America

8 minutes ago, Nick Carter icp said:

So , your White ancestors went to Brown mans land (America) , killed most of the locals and stole their land .

At least Israeli Jews have an historic connection to the land of Israel , you dont have an historic connection to America

Good one but most likely his family came after that messy business, as did mine.

Also, they were not considered white.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Good one but most likely his family came after that messy business, as did mine.

Hes still a White man living on Browns land and complaining about Jews living in Judea

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

But it's intellectually dishonest to lack respect and understanding of why the Zionist ideology developed which was quite rational and why it still lives to this day.

I think everybody understands very well why the Zionist ideology developed and that the creation of a Jewish state as a safe haven was rational at a time when nationalism and anti-semitism were growing stronger in most European societies.

The only point Zionism somehow forgot to take into that equation was the presence of Millions of Palestinians in the desired promised land, who actually welcomed the Jews at the beginning.

The Palestinians had been promised their own independent country for fighting with the Brits against the Ottomans and were planning to live in peaceful coexistence with the Jews same as they had done for centuries and therefore supported the Jewish immigration which even went so far that they let Jewish families live in their houses offering them their hospitality, which is a very important part of their mentality.

Well, the Jews had other plans. They wanted the place for themselves excluding everybody else, something unknown to the Palestinians.

Some Palestinians came back to their houses to find exchanged locks and the Jewish refugees who had been given shelter and food and enjoying their hospitality telling them to leave as from now on it is their house and turning them into refugees, a behavior which was unthinkable for the Palestinians.

THAT is the big difference.

Muslims include. Muslims are not racist. Radical Muslims are surely violent but one can always convert and be left in peace. Sure it may be hard to convert to another religion but still better than to be mistreated or killed.

Jews exclude. Israelis are somehow racist. Radical Israelis are no lesser violent but there is no way to protect yourself by converting to Judaism as that is not possible for a non Jewish person so if they are coming for you and your possessions, you´re doomed.

5 minutes ago, Somjot said:

I think everybody understands very well why the Zionist ideology developed and that the creation of a Jewish state as a safe haven was rational at a time when nationalism and anti-semitism were growing stronger in most European societies.

The only point Zionism somehow forgot to take into that equation was the presence of Millions of Palestinians in the desired promised land, who actually welcomed the Jews at the beginning.

The Palestinians had been promised their own independent country for fighting with the Brits against the Ottomans and were planning to live in peaceful coexistence with the Jews same as they had done for centuries and therefore supported the Jewish immigration which even went so far that they let Jewish families live in their houses offering them their hospitality, which is a very important part of their mentality.

Well, the Jews had other plans. They wanted the place for themselves excluding everybody else, something unknown to the Palestinians.

Some Palestinians came back to their houses to find exchanged locks and the Jewish refugees who had been given shelter and food and enjoying their hospitality telling them to leave as from now on it is their house and turning them into refugees, a behavior which was unthinkable for the Palestinians.

THAT is the big difference.

Muslims include. Muslims are not racist. Radical Muslims are surely violent but one can always convert and be left in peace. Sure it may be hard to convert to another religion but still better than to be mistreated or killed.

Jews exclude. Israelis are somehow racist. Radical Israelis are no lesser violent but there is no way to protect yourself by converting to Judaism as that is not possible for a non Jewish person so if they are coming for you and your possessions, you´re doomed.

So much wrong in that narrative that I won't bother playing into your game but yes it is possible to be a Jewish convert but very hard and also who in their right mind would want to?

It's worth noting a few things as well.

Jews living in Muslim countries were not given equal rights.

They had inferior status.

Also never forget the most powerful "Palestinian" Arab during WW2 was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who spend the war in Berlin and got a promise to EXTERMINATE each and every Jew in the Middle East region.

Lovely non-racist people. that's the ticket.

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

I'm not sure to which AN Bozo you are referring-

there are several to choose from- but after 2,000 years of discrimination and oppression, Jews were among the groups most deserving of their own country. The Holocaust made clear to the world the need for a Jewish homeland and majority Jewish state.

Jews can't rely on other countries to defend them, they have to do it themselves. That's why Israel is so necessary.

So they went and displaced 750.000 Palestinians and murdered Tens of Thousands and discriminate against the Arabs within Israel and oppress those outise in the occupied areas piece by piece stealing their land eversince.

Sounds fair.

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

The Arab world has an estimated population of 450-500 million, compared to 7.2 million Jews in Israel. Worldwide, there are 17.7 million Jews and 2 billion Muslims. In terms of landmass, Israel occupies about 0.1% pf the Middle East.

Speaking about the Arab world makes as much sense as speaking about the Christian world.

It´s like saying France and Germany should be ok if we take the Netherlands and kill and displace them.

I mean France and Germany might or might not care but the ones being murdered and stolen from are Dutch.

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

The Arab world would have saved itself a lot of misery if it had just accepted the existence of this tiny country and allowed Israel's Jews to live in peace.

Oh, so you are saying if the Arab world would not have attacked Israel in 1948, Israel would have been happy with the land they got from the UN and would be living next to the Arabs happy and gay eversince?

Good one.

3 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

Its in the Palestine charter

The Palestinian National Charter (or Covenant) is the founding document of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). In accordance with the 1993 Oslo Accords, the Palestinian National Council voted in April 1996 to cancel or amend articles that denied Israel's right to exist or were inconsistent with the mutual recognition between the PLO and Israel.

The Palestinian National Charter was amended in 1996 and 1998 to cancel articles denying Israel's right to exist, following the 1993 Oslo Accords and letters of mutual recognition between the PLO and Israel. While contentious, the PLO formally voted to amend or void articles calling for the destruction of Israel.

1. 1998 Reaffirmation: The PNC, in the presence of U.S. President Clinton in Gaza, reaffirmed the 1996 decision to annul these provisions.

2. Specific Articles Nullified: Articles 6-10, 15, 19-23, and 30, which called for the liquidation of Israel, were fully nullified.

🙂

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Jews living in Muslim countries were not given equal rights.

They had inferior status.

That might be true in SOME Muslim countries but not in all.

However, even if you take the country where they had the most inferior status, where ever that might be, there were still treated much better than the Palestinians now.

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Also never forget the most powerful "Palestinian" Arab during WW2 was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem who spend the war in Berlin and got a promise to EXTERMINATE each and every Jew in the Middle East region.

Lovely non-racist people. that's the ticket.

That is a great example of what happens if you only read propaganda based history books, Instead of not leaving the thinking to others and doing your own research by studying different books.

Mohammed Amin al-Husseini was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in Mandatory Palestine because in 1921, Herbert Samuel, the British High Commissioner appointed him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, (a new role established by Brits as there was no Mufti of Jerusalem before) to use him to help divide the Palestinian leadership structure and national movement.

He realized that and used his position to promote Islam while rallying a non-confessional Arab nationalism against Zionism, which was oppressing the Palestinians with terror organizations like Haganah, Irgun and Levi.

The Brits tried to arrest him so following the philosophy the enemy of my enemy is my friend he turned to the Nazis.

Which does not mean that he was a Nazi because last time I looked Nazis did not consider Arabs as Arians so that wouldn't have made very much sense.

Yet Jewish controlled western media and history books try to use him as proof of the collaboration between Muslims and Nazis.

The US military regularly met leaders of the Mujahideen between 1979 and 1992 providing weapons and billions of dollars to them. Doesn't mean US leaders are Muslim, does it?

2 hours ago, Evil Penevil said:

The Holocaust made clear to the world the need for a Jewish homeland and majority Jewish state.

They had one. The JAO was created in Russia in the 1930s just for the Jewry. 🙂

It's still there.

It will be useful in 10-20 years when Israel implodes due to US funding being reduced to almost nothing and Jews being the minority, if some Jews don't want comeuppance for butchering 50,000 Muslim women and children in one region alone in just 2 years. Hope they don't mind the cold. 🙂

36 minutes ago, Somjot said:

That might be true in SOME Muslim countries but not in all.

However, even if you take the country where they had the most inferior status, where ever that might be, there were still treated much better than the Palestinians now.

That is a great example of what happens if you only read propaganda based history books, Instead of not leaving the thinking to others and doing your own research by studying different books.

Mohammed Amin al-Husseini was a Palestinian Arab nationalist and Muslim leader in Mandatory Palestine because in 1921, Herbert Samuel, the British High Commissioner appointed him Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, (a new role established by Brits as there was no Mufti of Jerusalem before) to use him to help divide the Palestinian leadership structure and national movement.

He realized that and used his position to promote Islam while rallying a non-confessional Arab nationalism against Zionism, which was oppressing the Palestinians with terror organizations like Haganah, Irgun and Levi.

The Brits tried to arrest him so following the philosophy the enemy of my enemy is my friend he turned to the Nazis.

Which does not mean that he was a Nazi because last time I looked Nazis did not consider Arabs as Arians so that wouldn't have made very much sense.

Yet Jewish controlled western media and history books try to use him as proof of the collaboration between Muslims and Nazis.

The US military regularly met leaders of the Mujahideen between 1979 and 1992 providing weapons and billions of dollars to them. Doesn't mean US leaders are Muslim, does it?

Straw man gatbage.

You have no shame!

I never said he was a Nazi.

He was WORSE than a Nazi (see video):

Also, yes there were Muslims factions fighting for the Axis powers and also Hitler's obsession about Jews didn't apply to Arabs, Aryan or not.

Italians and Japanese aren't Aryans either. DUH!

Edited May 11May 11 by Jingthing

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You have no shame!

Calm down. 🙄

Let all us non-Jewry hope that another gate, that isn't in front of a building, that isn't a synagogue, isn't minorly damaged, while illegally occupied land under international law, that Jewry war crimes and crimes against humanity (the systematic shooting of one group and shouting at another for the exact same offence) are committed almost daily occur, is being offered for sale to overseas Jewry. 🙂

Edited May 11May 11 by Packer

14 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Don't act dumb.

I made it very clear what I was referring to and you dodged it.

That's fine but again don't act dumb.

If I.was baiting you you'd know it.

I fully respect you're right to evade my question.

It can be a sensitive personal matter.

I answered your question by saying I identify as a Jew culturally. What else needs to be said? You are truly making a mountain out of a molehill, and getting lost in a very deep worm hole of your own creation.

12 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

You know what I mean .

MJ didn't actully change from being Black man, he had a skin disease

He said he had skin disease but in reality he had multiple elective surgeries, unless he's the first black man in history to ever suffer from that disease.

12 hours ago, Nick Carter icp said:

So , your White ancestors went to Brown mans land (America) , killed most of the locals and stole their land .

At least Israeli Jews have an historic connection to the land of Israel , you dont have an historic connection to America

We are in complete agreement about that, I think the white man's treatment of the Native Americans, the Mexicans, and the black man was and is absolutely atrocious.

Although certainly the same can be said for the UK, in its multiple conquests and domination of foreign nations.

And please admit that you're allegiance to Israel has a lot to do with your allegiance to the GOP, the huuuuge goon, and the party line narrative.

10 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I answered your question by saying I identify as a Jew culturally. What else needs to be said? You are truly making a mountain out of a molehill, and getting lost in a very deep worm hole of your own creation.

I'm an atheistic Jew who identifies with the culture as you do and I also know I am a Jewish person.

You appear to be saying that you don't consider yourself a Jewish person. That's fine of course. You're totalling wrong that this is my own thing. The question of who is a Jew resonates throughout the history of the Jewish people' from both Jews and persecuters of Jews. I have known people without any connection to Jewish ethnicity who identify with the culture. They don't consider themselves Jews and in those cases they obviously aren't.

Edited May 12May 12 by Jingthing

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm an atheistic Jew who identifies with the culture as you do and I also know I am a Jewish person.

So you don’t believe Jews are the chosen people.

11 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

So you don’t believe Jews are the chosen people.

It's not something I ever think about except when it's used as an ignorant attack cudgel by racist Jew haters.